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Talk:June 1962 Alcatraz escape attempt

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 166.175.186.172 (talk) at 03:54, 8 February 2016 (→Merge discussion). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Merge

Per the {{merge}} tags, I propose that the Allen West (prisoner), Clarence Anglin, John Anglin, and Frank Morris articles be merged into this article. 58.8.1.199 (talk) 14:24, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Together they're notable... there's no need for four separate article saying essentially the same thing. Cheers, CP 22:24, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I also agree with the suggestsion to merge. The only reason that the Anglins and Morris are truly notable (and therefore the only reason people would be looking for them) is the escape, they don't need their own separate articles. Merge! FilmFemme (talk) 17:46, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Please merge. Location (talk) 06:41, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. No one cares about these people for anything other than their escape attempt. Vidor (talk) 15:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No Merge

I don't think they should because they pulled off the most gutsy and smartest way to escape the prison with the biggest prison security. They should get their own wiki page. NO MERGE! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Milkatron (talk • contribs) 23:27, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]


I agree. They should not be merged because they are a part of history, and quite possibly (I personally think most probably) pulled off the greatest escape in American history. Do NOT merge!!!! Vyselink (talk) 18:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Please do not merge the pages. I was interested in Frank Morris and found this page as a link, but sometimes research only calls for a specific name and one needs to move on. It would be hampering to me (and I suspect others) to have to comb through an entire related story to find one piece of information. Thank you, Lois Armstrong Shuck- frequent user of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.18.187.226 (talk) 05:37, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


I think the pages should NOT be merged. This prisoner had a sad but substantial life, and as he was a part of the Alcatraz escape he warrants his own page. I also find this page educational, as it shows how sad some prisoners' lives still are in this supposedly enlightened society. Martianpackets (talk) 09:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree! Do not merge these pages! Of course these pages are realated but we must separate them, besause June 1962 Alcatraz escape is only a little part of the whole biography of Frank Moris, whom we must consider as a personality.

Don't merge! They each have separate stories, they are both well-known and notable people that have their own biographies.--HugoRain (talk) 00:27, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To Acroterion

Actually, you Wrong, the stolen car and Vanished from Alcatraz are socured or whatever you call it.

http://edgewest.com/films/alcatraz/

and on list of Alcatraz escape attempts

Frank Morris and the 1962 escape were examined in a 2011 National Geographic Channel program entitled "Vanished from Alcatraz". According to the newly uncovered official records discussed on the program, a raft was discovered on Angel Island with footprints leading away. Furthermore, there was also a report of a stolen car in the area that night, which could have been used by Morris and the other escapees.

Now can it be put on here? My wife and I for years been debating on whetever Morris and the Anglins made it or not and hopefully this be put on again like what other users tired to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.16.23.173 (talk) 15:49, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You've added so much poorly sourced material to Alcatraz-related articles (as well as Kennedy-related topics), speculation, original research, misspellings and opinion that your credibility as an editor was exhausted long ago. If by "others" you mean one of your other IP addresses, the answer is no. Other editors may wish to do so, but I won't since I don't have access to the material; I have no objection in principle to the material if it's appropriate attributed and placed in context: the issue is with your editing history. In any case, it must be clearly noted as speculation. Please note that you're blocked from editing Wikipedia: just because your IP changes doesn't mean that you may start editing again. Acroterion (talk) 16:06, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lede

Current consensus is that this may have been a successful escape. Please discuss here. - Location (talk) 01:28, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus isn't even necessary; the only "evidence" that the Anglins are alive is one 40-year-old photo that one purported expert says might be authentic, as broadcast on a documentary channel that is notorious for playing fast and loose with hearsay and innuendo. We will need something way more credible than that to move off of "may have been". DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 02:11, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Can't agree. Doesn't matter the history or your assessment of the History Channel. What matters is that three individuals in law enforcement have stated the photo is likely authentic. They further stated that it is a new and substantial lead in a cold case that deserves further investigation. None of them would have put their professional reputations on the line to help the History Channel with ratings. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 02:58, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Your edit states that you do agree that this "may have been" a successful escape. - Location (talk) 03:54, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. And your point? -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 03:54, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You said you "can't agree" with the statement that this may have been a successful escape, but your edit indicates that you do agree that it may have been a successful escape. My point is that your statement contradicts your edit. - Location (talk) 06:01, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Photo is real. just look at it! A high res copy should be uploaded on the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.185.249.191 (talk) 12:04, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Photo is real, just look at it" hardly qualifies as WP:RS. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 15:20, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

SFGate August 13, 2015

I don't know how you are missing it, DoctorJoeE, but the new source I provided most certainly does mention the farm as well as show the photo of the two men alleged to be the Anglin brothers on that farm. The text in the article states, "This image shared on the History Channel claims to shows Clarence (left) and John Anglin (right), two bank robbers who infamously escaped from Alcatraz in 1962, standing on a farm where they allegedly lived in Brazil in 1975." Please see this link for the photo and the text you claim isn't there. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 17:14, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Winkelvi, thanks for discussing this civilly rather than edit warring. The sentence you added said, in part, "he offered photos of the farm where the brothers had purportedly been living, and a photograph of two men resembling John and Clarence Anglin..." (Bolding is mine.) The source you cited -- and every other one that I've found so far -- mentions only the photo of the brothers; none of them mention any additional photos of the farm. That's why I removed "photos of a farm where they had purportedly been living". Yes, the photo of the brothers was supposed to have been taken on a farm. I didn't think it was particularly important to include that, since nothing in the photo suggests that it really is a farm -- but we can certainly add that the photo in question is supposed to have been taken on a farm. Okay? DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 17:41, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, there is a photo of the alleged farm, and why it isn't in this series of photos I don't know. It was part of the History Channel program. But, what you've suggested will work fine. My objection was to the complete removal of content regarding the photo of them on the farm -- which was referenced accurately before you removed it the second time. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 17:47, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I left the reference, and added additional material from that reference. But again, none of the cited sources support the presence of any photos other than the one of the brothers. And let's face it, that's the relevant one. But I've added that they were supposedly pictured on a farm. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 17:54, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And now I see that someone has added it back again! (The YouTube clip is a primary source, and technically not proper WP:RS anyway.) The point I was trying to make is that none of the secondary sources mentions photos of the farm. Why? Because they are irrelevant to the question of whether the brothers are alive. The only photo that matters is the one that purports to show the brothers in Brazil in 1975, and that's the only one that anyone is paying any attention to. I guess we're going to have to leave it in, since people will continue to add it anyway, for some reason -- although I'm going to fix the awkward language -- but in the long term, it's probably going to get taken out. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 20:01, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Merge discussion

There was recently a very brief discussion in Talk:John Anglin#Proposed merge with Clarence Anglin that concluded that Clarence Anglin, John Anglin, and Frank Morris (prisoner) be merged to June 1962 Alcatraz escape. Unfortunately, this article and the article on Morris were not tagged. As a formality, I'm going to tag those articles and request further feedback on this page. Thanks! - Location (talk) 03:40, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure how I missed that discussion - but I agree, none of the three have notability outside of this one event, and there is an adequate biographical summary of each of them within this article. If it is ever proved convincingly that the Anglin brothers did in fact make it to Brazil and lived out there lives there, an argument could be made for spinning off an article on them; but unless/until that happens, this article is quite sufficient IMHO. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 15:14, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Location: Since nearly a month has passed with no further discussion, can we safely conclude that there is no strenuous objection to the proposal, and proceed with the merger? DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 14:42, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
One question, DoctorJoeE: how do you merge all the sourced content into here? --George Ho (talk) 23:59, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not an expert on the nuts & bolts of merges — but in this case, simple cut/paste and deletion, yes? DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 03:41, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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