Talk:Transgender

Transgender Individuals and the Greater LGBT Community

I think it's worth mentioning that the Transgender community has multiple exterior challenges that it faces, but on top of those exterior challenges lie interior challenges as well. Namely, the Transgender community is often left out to dry, seen by the Human Rights Campaign's (HRC) decisions throughout the years and the lack of transgender board members they have in an organization that is said to represent the LGBT organization on a national scale. Removing transgender protections from the Employment Non-Discrimination Act in order to get it through more favorably, as Gay/Lesbian protections were more easily accepted by legislators, and removing the transgender flags from the Equal Marriage Rally outside of the Supreme Court of the United States while the case was still being decided upon, are two acts that specifically upset many in the transgender community. Many individuals, on blogs, side websites and articles often call for a sole transgender community and to split off from the "LGB" because of these past actions, which will only go to fracture a community that needs to stand together and uphold all of its members in order to help everyone involved, as all of these rights and regulations intersect with one another and the loss of an entire group leaves not only that one group to fend for itself, but also removes support for large LGBT activist organizations like the HRC.

I think it's worth mentioning these types of things, so people have a greater view of where the Transgender community tends to fit in relation to larger organizations and what they want to do.

Kisiriel (talk) 03:38, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree that this issue is worth mentioning, for years we have seen transgender people being left out of LGBT history. LindseyPhillips (talk) 22:47, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

WP:Class assignment

Burt Macklin aka Tim Buckanowski, Jrweaver737, and LindseyPhillips, regarding this alert, would you explain what you have planned for this article? It is often important for student editors to discuss such plans with more experienced Wikipedia editors to ensure that the edits are in compliance with WP:Policies or guidelines. This is for reasons noted at WP:Class assignment. For example, it is easy to go overboard with WP:Primary sources. Do read the WP:Primary sources policy. Simply adding study after study, especially primary studies, is not a good way to build an encyclopedia. Also read Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) (WP:MEDRS) and WP:Fringe; those are important guidelines for this article.

In my opinion, it would be best that your class post your proposed additions to be evaluated, either in your sandbox (with a link on this talk page to that sandbox) and/or directly to this talk page. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 06:21, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Kisiriel (talk · contribs), if you are part of a class assignment, also see what I stated above in this section. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 06:24, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22 Reborn Hello, we are all still figuring out all that Wikipedia has to offer. We are currently writing a proposal for what we would like to see improved on this article. We would love some feedback once we collect all of our ideas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LindseyPhillips (talk • contribs) 14:28, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

I intend on making slight edits to three pages under the Contributions to the Series. Specifically: Gender Binary, Sex Segregation and Third Gender. My contributions are aimed at reframing the current binary lens. Gillian Ward (talk) 04:38, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

The page for Transgender has been semi protected, and I cannot make any editsGillian Ward (talk) 04:57, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Gillian Ward, you can propose changes to the article here on the talk page and have auto-confirmed users (such as myself, Flyer22 Reborn and others) make the changes for you, though we may ask to make changes or copy edit your proposed changes. See WP:Edit request for more information on proposing changes to article content. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 05:57, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22 Reborn

I would like to make an edit to the LGBT section that notes the disconnect between the HRC and the transgender community. The edit would look something like this,

The Human Rights Campaign (HRC) has been one of the transgender communities strongest allies. However, there has been a disconnect that has been addressed by the transgender community as well as the HRC. The disassociation of both groups stems from several instances that have made the transgender people feel that they have not been fully endorsed by the HRC. One of these incidents between the HRC and the transgender community began in 2007 when the HRC supported an employment anti-discrimination bill that would have made it illegal for companies to discriminate against gays, lesbians, and bisexuals. This bill did not include the anti-discrimination of transgender people. The president of the HRC, Chad Griffin, has recently admitted that the campaign has done wrong by the transgender community. In September 2014, Griffin made a formal apology in front of an audience of transgender people at a southern comfort conference in Atlanta. Griffin also discussed the need for a more inclusive Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and stated that the HRC will lead the campaign for a fully-inclusive, LGBT civil rights bill.

LindseyPhillips (talk) 23:39, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I've done a minor copy-edit of the proposed addition, I will see about doing more at a later time today/tomorrow LindseyPhillips. BTW, the ENDA seems to have already passed with transgender-inclusive passages;

In 2009, following Democratic gains in the 2008 elections, and after the divisiveness of the 2007 debate, Rep. Barney Frank introduced a transgender-inclusive version of ENDA. He introduced it again in 2011, and Sen.Jeff Merkley introduced it in the Senate. On November 7, 2013, Merkley's bill passed the Senate with bipartisan support by a vote of 64–32. President Barack Obama supports the bill's passage.^{(From the ENDA article.)}

Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 00:45, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Please be aware of Wikipedia:Systemic_bias and avoid an undue bias towards content on American and Anglophone politics, and assumptions that the same issues are universal. Your material might better belong in a separate page on Transgender issues in American politics. Trankuility (talk) 11:52, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Proposed Section: Transgender in Pop Culture

A classmate and I want to propose a section about transgender in popular culture such as television and include popular T.V. shows such as The L Word, Transparent, and Orange is the New Black. We would also include information from an article discussing how roles for transgender actors are changing. Jrweaver737 (talk) 03:40, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Jrweaver737, if you and/or your classmate could post an "original vs. proposed" comment, that would be appreciated and will allow us to review, copy-edit (if needed), and agree or disagree with the change - hopefully with reasons for disagreement. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 07:29, 2 December 2015 (UTC

==In Pop Culture==

In the past a transgender role might be used as a joke or comic relief in a show while trans actors and actresses found it difficult to receive major roles even if the character themselves were transgender. Recently, there has been a prominent rise of transgenders in popular media and are gaining an increased presence on television shows. Many believe that the increased exposure in television and magazines is a positive sign of society moving forward but there is still controversy against the casting in the transgender role.

Transparent is an Amazon original series portraying the experiences of a family who learn that their father identifies himself as a woman and is transgender. The show is praised for accurately representing the trans community but still receives criticism for casting Jeffrey Tambor as the role of Maura Pfefferman because he is a cisgender actor. On the other hand, Rhys Ernst and Zackary Drucker are transgenders who played a key role in editing the script and co-producing the show which adds to the show's authenticity.[1] [2]

References
Jump up ^ Ruiz, Michelle. "Trans Actors and Hollywood Insiders Discuss the Complicated Reality of Trans Casting". Cosmopolitan. Retrieved 3 December 2015.
Jump up ^ Bernstein, Jacob. "n Their Own Terms The Growing Transgender Presence in Pop Culture". The New York Times. The New York Times. Retrieved 3 December 2015.

This is what I have worked on so far. Jrweaver737 (talk) 05:17, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't see any glaringly obvious copy-editting needed, but I would like to ask for Flyer22 Reborn's assessment and comment as they are more knowledgeable in this area than I am. I would also appreciate other users comments as well, to reach both a consensus (even if mostly silent). Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 11:27, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

"Recently, there has been a prominent rise" This phrasing will quickly become outdated, use actual dates such as "since 2007".

"of transgenders in popular media" Usage of transgender as a noun is highly contentious.

and are gaining an increased presence on television shows." The subject of this phrase is not well defined. It seems to link to the word "transgenders" in the previous clause, but there are parsing problems with that as well as the previously mentioned problems with transgender as a noun.

I would suggest rephrasing to "Since {please insert an actual year here}, depictions of transgender individuals have become more common on television."

"father identifies himself as a woman and is transgender." Redundant. Suggest changing to "father is transgender" or "father identifies as a woman".

"The show is praised for accurately representing the trans community but still receives criticism for casting Jeffrey Tambor as the role of Maura Pfefferman because he is a cisgender actor." Change "as the role" to "in the role". Would also suggest rephrasing as "The show is praised for accurately representing the trans community but still receives criticism for casting the cis-gender actor Jeffrey Tambor in the role of Maura Pfefferman."

"On the other hand, Rhys Ernst and Zackary Drucker are transgenders who played a key role in editing the script and co-producing the show which adds to the show's authenticity." There is also confusion over past vs present and singular vs plural in the roles of Ernst and Drucker. Consider rephrasing as "On the other hand, the show has greater authenticity due to Rhys Ernst and Zackary Drucker having drawn on their experiences as transgender individuals while editing the script and co-producing the show." --Khajidha (talk) 16:22, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

So more like this then?

==In Pop Culture (draft 2)==

Historically, a transgender character role might be used for comic relief in a show, such as... , while trans actors and actresses found it difficult to receive major roles - even if the character role was for a transgender character.

As of {date}, there has been a significant rise in public transgender peoples on popular media. Transgender people are also gaining an increased presence on television shows. Many believe that the increased exposure in mass media and popular media is a positive sign of society moving forward but there is still controversy around casting transgender roles to cisgender - instead of transgender - actors and actresses.

Transparent is an Amazon original series portraying the experiences of a family who learn that their father self-identifies as a woman. The show is praised for accurately representing the trans community but still receives criticism for casting a cisgender actor, Jeffrey Tambor, in the role of Maura Pfefferman, the transgender father. However, the show has greater authenticity due to Rhys Ernst and Zackary Drucker having drawn on their experiences as transgender individuals while editing the script and co-producing the show. [1] [2]

I incorporated the changes suggested by Khajidah. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 22:12, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Suggest changing "identifies themselves" to "self-identifies". --Khajidha (talk) 16:04, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

 Done - Jrweaver737, Khajidah, is this an acceptable revision of the text? I do have concerns about the citations and where they are placed, but we can deal with that next. Cheers, 21:38, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Seems good to me. I share your concerns about the citations. --Khajidha (talk) 21:52, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Editors adding material on pop culture need to be aware of Wikipedia:Systemic_bias and avoid an undue bias towards content on American and Anglophone pop culture. That material might better belong in a separate page on Transgender in American pop culture. Trankuility (talk) 11:52, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Proposed Section: Marginalization

I would like to create new section that ties the aspect of marginalization, culture industry, and media representation with transgender issues. If possible, linking these terms would give a better understanding of the role mass culture plays in the perspective of how transgender issues are viewed. Vvu9491 (talk) 08:11, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

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Basic definition still not correct

This can not stand, this is the basic definition of the term. Transgender is a blanket term that includes many different types of people and does not necessarily have anything to do with someone's self proclaimed identity. I quote from the APA: "Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth" This page is deliberately leaving out the BEHAVIOR part of it. It needs to change.