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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) at 02:37, 13 March 2016 (Archiving 1 discussion(s) from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pharmacology) (bot). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Archive 5←Archive 8Archive 9Archive 10Archive 11Archive 12→Archive 15

Drug class & drug classification – does anyone know of an appropriate redirect? I'm rather surprised we don't actually have either (at least) a stub covering the topic on either page or have the terms redirected to an appropriate page/section covering it, especially considering Template:Infobox drug class is used in articles about a drug class (e.g., see SSRI). Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 19:50, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

The closest I've seen is Drug nomenclature, but that's not quite what you're after. I suppose the problem is that there are so many different ways of classifying drugs, which is why we have so many entries in Category:Pharmacological classification systems. Despite (or perhaps 'because of') it being a rather nebulous topic, I think that it would be worth writing something on Drug class. Klbrain (talk) 23:24, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
As Klbrain writes: many ways of classifying drugs. From this, {{Infobox drug class}} is incomplete and chaotic, I'd suggest it be merged into {{Drugbox}}. -DePiep (talk) 09:34, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
One of the most widely used classification systems is the Anatomical Therapeutic Chemical Classification System. Another less formal system that is widely used in the literature in to classify drugs based on their biological target (e.g., ACE inhibitor, Beta blocker, Fibrate, etc.). Perhaps a List of drug classes article would be most appropriate. Drug class ≠ drug, hence merging {{Infobox drug class}} into {{Drugbox}} makes no sense. Most of the drug specific fields in the later are not appropriate for the former. Also precisely what is chaotic and incomplete about the former? Boghog (talk) 10:14, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
This PMID 18999016 citation seems quite relevant. Also from
Drugs can be classified in different ways according to:
Merging the drug class infobox into the drugbox template sounds like a good idea IMO. Boghog's citations should be sufficient to create/cite a stub on drug class - I'll go ahead and create it within the next day or 2 if it's still a redlink by then. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 15:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Why exactly would merging these two infoboxes be a good idea? If you look closely, there is actually very little overlap in the data fields. Furthermore the merger would just create a larger more complex template confusing editors by making it harder to locate the relevant fields for a drug class. Finally the merger would create a lot of unnecessary work. Better to keep them separate. Boghog (talk) 15:32, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
One distinct advantage of of keeping a separate {{Infobox drug class}} template is that it makes it easy to locate drug class articles. Boghog (talk) 15:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Why merging {{Infobox drug class}} into {{drugbox}}? Already drugbox has classification fields like ATC and legal status (by country). And today it looks 'chaotic' because the info is not structured. Especially it does not say to which classification system the class belongs. Boghog starts with listing two, next to ATC and legal status. One can also see the a flaw by checking whether the box is used on a classification system article, on a distinct class of a system, and or on a plain drug article. That is: is the article about: a classification system, a class, or about a drug?). -DePiep (talk) 16:14, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
None of the drug or drug class articles are about classification systems. We have very few drug classification system articles and the ones we do have are listed here. These generally do not tranclude infoboxes of any kind. Maintaining a separate {{Infobox drug class}} template makes clear that articles that transcludes it are about drug classes and not individual drugs. Merging the two templates would make the situation more chaotic, not less. If |ATC_prefix= is used, then obviously the ATC classification system is used. |Biological_target= is used, then the target classification system is used. It is possible that both could be used in the same article, because sometimes the two classification systems closely overlap. In other cases, they don't. I know this is messy, but it is unavoidable and is a direct result of differences in the two classification schemes. Merging templates will not remove this ambiguity. Also the information in the {{Infobox drug class}} does not need to be structured because there are relatively few fields. Finally the legal status by country should probably be removed from is not included in the {{Infobox drug class}} together because the status of individual drugs within a class often vary. Boghog (talk) 16:54, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
After adding "Identifiers" and "Clinical data" section headers, the data in {{Infobox drug class}} is now structured. Boghog (talk) 17:13, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 Done Drug class stub created. Boghog (talk) 19:50, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
"None of the drug or drug class articles are about classification systems." - then delete {{Infobox drug class}} for incorrect name. Really, keep in mind the diff between "classification system" and "class of a classification system".
"the information in the {{Infobox drug class}} does not need to be structured ..."? Nonsense.
Maybe I could agree on keeping the infobox if it is structured about classification & and their classes. Now let's check infobox usage at: vitamin B, vitamin C, vitamin D, vitamin E. Lot of work to do in those 39, and for example don't mistake a mixture/group of compounds for a class.
Quite simple: if classification system X is OK for wikipedia (notable etc), then {{Drugbox}} should have datarow with fact |class X=, with a substantial label (=lefthand side) link to that class. Otherwise: not. -DePiep (talk) 21:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Why and by what are these a "class"? 5-HT3 antagonist, Statin, Nitrovasodilator, [1], but none of [2]? -DePiep (talk) 21:43, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Classification system ≠ individual class. We have a hierarchy of drug classification and individual drug articles:

  1. Drug class – types of classification systems – no infobox
  2. ATC, SNOMED, and more informally Biological target – specific classification systems – no infobox
  3. individual drug classes – {{Infobox drug class}}
  4. individual drugs – {{Infobox drug}}

{{Infobox drug class}} is meant to contain information about individual classes, not classification systems and hence is properly named. The only systematic drug classification system that is widely used is the ATC system. Less structured but still widely used classification systems are based on the Biological target (& Mechanism of action) and/or Chemical class. The ATC system sometimes but not always contains information about the biological target or chemical class. Hence we should have identifiers for all three:

  1. ATC – |ATC_prefix=
  2. Biological target – |Biological_target= & Mechanism of action – |Mechanism_of_action=
  3. Chemical class – |Chemical_class=

In answer to your questions about how specific drug classes are defined:

The {{Infobox drug class}} is already structured since it has an external links section. We could further improve the structure by replacing "External links" with "Class identifiers" and adding "Clinical data" headings. Boghog (talk) 06:30, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I think it's fine to merge the two simply to have a centralized drug-related infobox; the drugbox template is much more visible than the drug class template, so its visibility could promote the use of the drug class infobox if merged. I don't necessarily think it should be merged unless someone is willing to put in the work to implement it so that it looks (roughly) identical and includes the same data fields as before. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 16:19, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Merging would cause confusion as to which fields are appropriate to use. For that reason alone, merging is a clearly bad idea. In addition, merging would eliminate a good way to track drug class articles. Finally merging would create unnecessary work that would be better spent on deploying the {{Infobox drug class}} more widely. This would do far more to raise the visibility of the template than burying it in a subsection of the drugbox where no one will notice it. Merging the template will decrease, not increase its visibility. I will happily work on deploying the existing template more widely but I will not spend a millisecond on merging it.
  • Also, I would appreciate some feedback on how the sandbox version looks (see test cases). Boghog (talk) 16:47, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
  • I think that the templates look good, noting that of course not all subheadings will be appropriate for all ways of categorizing drugs; that is true for all infoboxes. Klbrain (talk) 17:26, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
  • I think it looks good too. But it is a little confusing that the links in "clinical section" are external links when there is a section named external links. I suggest to add the external link symbol. Christian75 (talk) 18:00, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
Your revised version of the drug class template is definitely an improvement over the original. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 20:01, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
Well, the very first testcase is Propranolol: a single chemical compound. In other words, it is an individual drug. But here it is transformned into being a class by a property. This way, individual drug could be called a "class" by some property. This is the error made: propranolol is member of a class. It does not define the class. (correctly, the article has {{drugbox}}). -DePiep (talk) 17:54, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Exactly, propranolol is a member of a class and is used as an example of that class as the caption makes clear. It is not meant to define the class, only to represent it. We have zillions of articles about more general subjects that contain graphics of specific examples to represent the more general topic. And this is not an otherstuff argument. If otherstuff is common, it by definition means its application has community consensus. Boghog (talk) 18:13, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
You're right. -DePiep (talk) 18:16, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
  • 1. re "{{Infobox drug class}} is meant to contain information about individual classes" Well, that should be in the top of the /doc of course. And, quite essential, the ~first parameter should be |part of classifiation system=.
2. A class added from another system (like ATC in a Biological target class), that should be under subheader like: "class name in other classification systems". It should not suggest that a class is identified by that other class. -DePiep (talk) 18:02, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Re #1: asked and answered above. To reiterate, If |ATC_prefix= is used, then obviously the ATC classification system is used. |Biological_target= is used, then the target classification system is used.
  • Re #2: Most of the articles that we have about individual drug classes do not correspond exactly to an entry in a formal system like ATC. Rather they are used informally in the biomedical literature and their use is backed up by multiple reliable secondary sources, hence notable, but not necessarily defined in ATC. This is particularly true of new classes of research drugs that have not yet been been approved for human use. Boghog (talk) 18:20, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
I don't think I can articulate this well enough, but it think the best article title would be drug classification.
Wouldn't it be better to have the subheader read, like: Drug classification system: Anatomical Therapeutic Chemical Classification System (into a regular label-value pair). As it is now, it is a bit wierd. For example, in {{Building}} we do not have Building in top: this should be in the lede ('X is a drug class'). -DePiep (talk) 22:36, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
I don't have a strong opinion on whether we call the article "drug class" or "drug classification" although I do prefer the former as being simpler. The lead in drug class first states that a drug class is a related set of drugs and then lists several ways in which they can be classified. The definition of the various classification systems follows logically from the definition of a class. In short, class is the more fundamental concept. A regular label-value label pair would make sense if there was a one-to-one correspondence between specific drug class articles and drug classification systems. This is usually not the case. There are several partially overlapping classification systems, and most drug class articles can be mapped to more than one classification system. Because of this one-to-several relationship, the infobox contains several label-value pairs under the heading of "classification identifiers". Boghog (talk) 06:37, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
I gently disagree. The article describes classifiction, of which classes are an outcome. So that points to the order of concepts: the classification defines the classes, not the other way around. (and so "class is the more fundamental concept" is wrong wrt "classification"). Renaming would nicely leave a redirect, of course.
Later more about the second thing. -DePiep (talk) 21:17, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Iodine (125I) CC49 deletion discussion

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iodine (125I) CC49. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 15:27, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Patiromer for DYK

Just so you know. Template:Did you know nominations/Patiromer. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 17:56, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Drugbox types are categorised now

I have created these categories, populated by {{Infobox drug}}:

Category:Drugs by type

The default (drug=single chemical) is not categorised. These listings might be useful for those who follow vaccines, m.antibodies etc. Also, there are some "?" markers (unknown value) to be checked. Comments at Template talk:Infobox drug please. -DePiep (talk) 23:11, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

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