Jump to content

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others/Evidence

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< Wikipedia:Arbitration | Requests | Case | Gamaliel and others

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mdann52 (talk | contribs) at 21:23, 6 May 2016 (Clerk action - evidence appears to be purely related to GG, which is not being accepted. Will notify on talk). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Main case page (Talk) — Evidence (Talk) — Workshop (Talk) — Proposed decision (Talk)

Case clerk: TBD Drafting arbitrator: TBD

Wikipedia Arbitration
Open proceedings
Active sanctions
Arbitration Committee
Audit
Track related changes

Any editor may add evidence to this page, irrespective of whether they are involved in the dispute. You must submit evidence in your own section. Editors who change other users' evidence may be sanctioned; if you have a concern with or objection to another user's evidence, contact the committee by e-mail or on the talk page. The standard limits for all evidence submissions are: 1000 words and 100 diffs for users who are parties to this case; or about 500 words and 50 diffs for other users. Detailed but succinct submissions are more useful to the committee. This page is not designed for the submission of general reflections on the arbitration process, Wikipedia in general, or other irrelevant and broad issues; and if you submit such content to this page, please expect it to be ignored or removed. General discussion of the case may be opened on the talk page. You must focus on the issues that are important to the dispute and submit diffs which illustrate the nature of the dispute or will be useful to the committee in its deliberations.

You must use the prescribed format in your evidence. Evidence should include a link to the actual page diff in question, or to a short page section; links to the page itself are inadequate. Never link to a page history, an editor's contributions, or a log for all actions of an editor (as those change over time), although a link to a log for a specific article or a specific block log is acceptable. Please make sure any page section links are permanent, and read the simple diff and link guide if you are not sure how to create a page diff.

The Arbitration Committee expects you to make rebuttals of other evidence submissions in your own section, and for such rebuttals to explain how or why the evidence in question is incorrect; do not engage in tit-for-tat on this page. Arbitrators may analyze evidence and other assertions at /Workshop, which is open for comment by parties, Arbitrators, and others. After arriving at proposed principles, findings of fact, or remedies, Arbitrators vote at /Proposed decision. Only arbitrators and clerks may edit the proposed decision page.

Pages restored for history only review

The following pages have been restored for history only review for the duration of this arbitration case:

Evidence presented by NE Ent

Current word length: 109; diff count: 0.

The Wikipedia website is owned by a private entity (WMF), therefore first amendment rights do not exist per XKCD: Tinker is not applicable. Per firstadmentcenter.org: Therefore, the First Amendment does not provide protection for students at private schools. [1].

The foundation urged us in 2009 to uphold the integrity of the project by, amount other things Taking human dignity and respect for personal privacy into account when adding or removing information, especially in articles of ephemeral or marginal interest;

WP:BLP requires:

The events presented show multiple editors, including some with the administrator WP:UAL, either commiting BLP violations by direct action (A) or interfering with the removal of disputed content (D)

Timeline of blp violations:

  • A Gamaliel creates attack page [2]
  • Note: initial CSD was for hoax, not BLP
  • D Gamaliel repeatedly revert blanking of disputed BLP [3] [4] [5]
  • D ed17 full protects page while disputed BLP present [6], removes protection [7] when referred to WP:BLPRESTORE policy
  • A DHeyward changes target of attack page [8]
  • A Gamaliel reverts to prior target. [9]

In real life, it's understood that the enforcement of rules is as, or more important than, the declaration of them. The Australian Indigenous Governance Institute has this to say about rule enforcement [10]: Weak rules and strong rules – What happens to your governance?

What happens when rules are weak and poorly enforced? What happens when rules are strong and enforced
Governance is less effective and legitimate. Decision making is more transparent, winning support from members and staff.
Conflict increases and relationships are under stress. Cooperative relationships and collaboration are increased.
Members’ rights and interests are overridden or marginalised. Members’ rights and interests are protected and strengthened.
Leaders might be encouraged to be greedy and self-interested. Everyone wants to invest their time, effort and resources.
Private and public agencies won’t want to invest in economic growth. Economic growth is more sustainable and partnerships stronger.
Staff and members are confused and have low morale. There is high morale amongst staff and members.
Nations and communities are less able to exercise practical self-determination. Nations and communities are more able to exercise practical self-determination.

Faking it rebuttal

It has suggested by that I'm not "personally troubled" by the BLP with out of context diffs, implying, perhaps, my filing is a pretext to some other agenda.

In fact, I posted words of support for Gamaliel during WP:ARBGG [11] and have prevously petitioned for deletion of attack pages I stumbled upon.

If it was in my power, I would, in fact, revert all the WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS BLP violations that have been presented during the case request and evidence phases. It's not. I have been a wiki volunteer for over a decade [12], and have made 1K edits to WP:WQA and 3K to WP:ANI. [13] There is no doubt that if I started on a BLP deleting rampage, at best, my efforts would simply be reverted. In the words of Billy Joel / Angry Young Man "I believe I've passed the age of consciousness and righteous rage;" and WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS behavior is "And there's always a place for the angry young man...He's fair and he's true, and he's boring as hell." As a single editor among 122,379 active, the scope is fair beyond me, but given an opportunity to nudge the community in the right direction, I'll at least make the attempt.

Evidence presented by Jayen466

Current word length: 488; diff count: 3.

On the Signpost

Several people expressed concern about Gamaliel's dual role as an arbitrator and one of the Signpost's two editors-in-chief. As a Signpost editorial board member, I'd like to state that Gamaliel's conduct concerning ArbCom-related editorial discussions (including the ArbCom election) has been exemplary. I've been genuinely surprised to find people I respect expressing fears to the contrary.

Consider – Signpost staff aren't getting paid for the job. They could walk away and blow the whistle at any time if they were constrained by an editor-in-chief, in the process doing exactly what they've volunteered for: community journalism.

Specifically: Signpost reports on ArbCom business are never written by Gamaliel. Gamaliel has never sought to influence the writers. Since joining ArbCom, the only edits he's made to arbitration reports have been page moves and template edits (part of the publication process), and one picture edit.

Without Gamaliel, there would have been no Signpost the last six months. He's done a huge amount of work, mostly handling the chore of publication single-handedly. He should be thanked.

The Signpost and Wikipedia policy: It's readily apparent that Signpost articles "violate" multiple Wikipedia policies: BLP, OR, "not a newspaper", etc. You cannot write a Wikipedia newspaper without those "violations". An ArbCom statement on this would be appreciated.

As for April Fools' jokes, I'd be happy to have a community RfC deciding whether the Signpost should run April Fools stories involving living people, or any at all. Perhaps ArbCom could provide a corresponding recommendation.

Many people said sensible things in the case request. Every view expressed had some merit. But Sarah's statements there and on the associated talk page seemed the most clear-headed, cutting to the nub of the matter.

If we could all strive to remember that everyone here is a human being deserving of patience and respect, perhaps we could arrive at something genuinely deserving the name "arbitration" – a process that seeks insight and understanding rather than revenge and punishments. --Andreas JN466 14:33, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Responses to BU Rob13

  1. Rob, review Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-17/Special_report. Isn't the article a policy violation, riddled with original research and improper BLP sourcing? If we followed WP:BLPSOURCES the way you suggest, we'd have to remove anything not "attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation" and could only regurgitate other sources. That's not the idea of the Signpost. Andreas JN466 00:57, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2. April Fools' jokes clearly marked as humour "are not advanced as factual assertions". --Andreas JN466 06:22, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Fram

Fram, revisit [14]. This edit merely added an April Fools' Day link to red-linked passages, to mark the existing text even more clearly as a joke, in addition to the humour template already present.

Re WP:OWN: Unlike mainspace articles, Signpost pieces have named authors (see your own op-ed). Typo fixes are welcome, but wouldn't you be angry if someone came along and edited your op-ed according to their ideas, absent a community consensus (say at a noticeboard) that a particular passage should be re-written or deleted? Andreas JN466 03:08, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Staberinde

Given the Signpost's function – isn't the reasonable move to establish consensus (at BLPN etc.) before edit-warring in the Signpost? --Andreas JN466 19:50, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Kingsindian

Current word length: 381; diff count: 2.

There was no BLP violation

BLP is a policy which is aimed at protecting living persons. It is true that WP:BLP contains a statement that "BLP applies everywhere", but the standards are not the same everywhere. It is silly to claim that an April Fools joke in The Signpost violates BLP. Anyone advancing such an argument would not be consistent. It is child's play to find other cases where they wouldn't apply the argument.

A very simple example is the accompanying Trump/Wales 2016 April Fools joke. By the same standards, it is double the BLP violation: against Jimbo and Trump. Yet nobody deleted it and nobody proposed sanctions against Andreas or Montanabw. Needless to say, it would be outrageous if anyone proposed this.

Bad taste is not a BLP violation. I would be happy to see the April Fools tradition eliminated not just from Wikipedia but from the world, but that is not relevant.

The role of Gamergate

Gamaliel has claimed that 90% of the people involved are due to Gamergate, without any evidence. Let's look at the the people who have commented on WP:ANI and this Arb request. Of them, I count the following people who have edited the Gamergate or its Talk page (in an editorial, not admin capacity): Me, DHeyward, Ryk72, Liz, Masem, Starke Hathaway, Mark Bernstein (apologies if I have missed anyone). Of them, only three even urged acceptance of this case, while the rest urged "decline". Another, Arkon has edited Christina Hoff Sommers (who is related to Gamergate, though she is independently notable). They started the ANI section but haven't indicated what they prefer out of this ArbCom case and have asked Gamaliel to clarify his remarks about Gamergate. Clearly, the claim is hyperbolic.

If Gamaliel sees Gamergate in every shadow, it may be time for him to step away for a bit. Risker had hinted, not-so-subtly, about this to Gamaliel a few months ago.

DHeyward should not be added as a party

I am unsure on what basis DHeyward has been added as a party. It seems that ArbCom is trying all avenues to make this case not about Gamaliel. First, it was about BLP, now DHeyward has been added as a party. Please correct this travesty. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 15:02, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by DHeyward

Current word length: 733; diff count: 7.

I must correct the narrative by Milowent. This was two distinct events to me. The first was the CSD[15] which occurred 4 or 5 days prior to the ANI event. It is true that Gamaliel removed the CSD tag out of process[16], I reverted noting it was a BLP and attack page as well as counter to CSD process for the page creator to remove the tag [17] but I did not take issue with it or report it. A third editor removed the CSD tag and added the humor template[18] (note, that Gamaliel didn't have any humor templates at this time on any of these pages, not that it matters except for those excusing the behavior on those grounds). The third editor's removal was also technically out of process but conformed to the spirit of challenging CSD's. Rather than immediately MfD it, I asked AN for input as to whether we wanted backdated articles.[19] I didn't mention any malfeasance and didn't edit war nor seek any sanction - I didn't mention any conflict or Gamaliel and just sought opinion. There is no way that there is any conflict evident in any of those posts nor was it possible to "lose" as Milowent described it. As far as I was concerned that aspect was over as others not involved could discuss and decide. There are also specious claims by Milowent about removing an image created by Montanabw, not Gamaliel, and a discussion about whether WMF should be hosting images that violate WMF trademark rules on WMF servers as it makes future "cease and desist" enforcement harder. They are beyond the scope of this ArbCom proceeding. Milowent, however, has been dumping gasoline on this issue with unhelpful and degrading comments at ANI[20][21][22][23](note the edit summary which was followed by admin redaction of his edit)[24][25][26][27][28][29][ and with his inappropriate user space "blog" on it [30].

Four days later, unrelated to me, and without notice to me, the page was put up for MfD by BU Rob13[31]. The page was then blanked by Arkon and an edit war began between Arkon and Gamaliel.[32][33][34][35][36][37][38] until it was locked down.[39] Arkon was arguing the article was a BLP violation, Gamaliel argued that it was not a BLP or attack page and blanking broke Signpost. This edit war preceded the ANI edit war. At this point, the dispute moves to ANI.

I was notified on my talk page when the ANI case was brought. I was unaware of the MfD or edit war just prior to ANI. In this time frame Gamaliel created in his userspace the "This user has Small Hands" userbox.[40] implying that such attribution is not an attack or BLP violation.

The admin that locked the page on Signpost realized it was a WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE violation and unlocked. Since Gamaliel had already said he had small hands, said such things were not BLP violations, I replaced the Trump statement with one that didn't break Signpost or create a BLP [41]. Read the page and my edit has all the elements for the so-called "exemption" - the humor tag, April 1 and also is source-able to the newly created userbox.

This was reverted by Gamaliel (a bright line 4th revert in 24 hours [42][43][44][45]). His comment was that a page that said "'Small Hands' Gamaliel wrote this" was vandalism and an attack page.[46] and replaced it with "Donald Trump threatens to sue Wikipedia over image of his "small hands" as if it were more humorous, less of an attack or better sourced. The only difference is that Gamaliel had a self-describing userbox. His comments show that he is completely aware that such language is an "attack" and BLP violation yet he defended it relentlessly when used to disparage other people. If there was any question, he answered it here by actually redacting "small hands"[47] using an incivil edit summary. The "humor" tag did nothing for him when it was his name. His sense of humor ended at his userbox at Trump's expense. It is telling that he understands the violation and yet defends it.

I should not have said Gamaliel was a "cancer" to the project on the opening case page and I apologize for that language. It was removed by a clerk and I contemplated rewording but in the end decided removal was simply best. My objection to Gamaliel's edits are that they are ideological in nature when it comes to U.S. political topics. He recently removed a userbox that declared his support for the U.S. Democratic Party that had been on his page for 4 years.[48][49] Removing such an affiliation is in line with being on the board of WMF DC chapter as a 501(c)(3) non-political organization but it then begs the question - why is such an affiliated person writing political op-eds (satire or not) about the most visible political figures in the U.S. on WMF servers? The tenacious defense of the fake, disparaging page belies more of an ideological bent than an objective view of what is best for Wikipedia, ArbCom, Administrators, Signpost or WMF. --DHeyward (talk) 08:47, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to Johnuniq

Your year old, out-of-scope diff of a Gamaliel revert highlights part of his problem. I argue that the sex life of the female game developer doesn't belong in the article and my talk page edit is suppressed. But he left the entire account and allegation in the article because the narrative, while being a BLP violation, fit the world view of editors he protected. This is not dissimilar to the more recent "talk page redaction" that was instigated by email regarding a former Nintendo employee. Fortunately I learned since then to boldly remove the BLP violations in the article first. Predictably, the people that wanted to exploit the women involved objected to my talk page comments that argued against the inclusion of BLP violating material while they added it to the article to highlight the sex lives of female tech employees. Sorry that I do not agree that women in tech should be portrayed as sexual tropes because that's the narrative some wish to portray. Luckily Gamaliel stepped aside and all of it was removed despite the argument that the sex life was covered in the Washington Post. --DHeyward (talk) 07:42, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Yngvadottir

Current word length: 493; diff count: 14.

Gamaliel violated BLP and CSD policy in the name of April Fool's Day after April Fool's Day was over

Gamaliel created a BLP-violating past-dated hoax page in support of a Signpost April Fool's Day joke, and on April 2—after April Fool's Day—removed the CSD tag himself: [50]; on April 6, he reverted blanking on BLP grounds, with an edit summary that it was used on the Signpost: [51]. (He put the Signpost above BLP concerns also at AN/I the same day: [52].) On April 7, he repeated the BLP violation itself at AN/I as a sneer: [53] and also created a userbox linking to an article explaining the BLP violation, and after an IP blanked it, full protected it, an abuse of administrative tools: [54]. A reasonable solution for the purposes of the Signpost joke article itself—although Wikipedia custom and the one-day nature of April Fool's Day made this far too late—was finally implemented on April 8th by faking a sidebar, making the hoax page unnecessary (and this is what would have been expected to comply with policy, rather than defying policy repeatedly because the Signpost supposedly needed the hoax page). I cannot tell from Andreas' statements whether Gamaliel participated in the belated fix: [55].

Gamaliel belittled editors who raised the BLP issue and cast aspersions, in violation of civility

Gamaliel misused "vandalize": [56], accused an editor of libel (later struck): [57], cast aspersions: [58], insinuated that those criticizing his actions must be mostly Gamergaters: [59], [60], and particularly [61], and edit warred to reclose the AN/I about him (alluded to as improper in Drmies' close: [62]).

The issue is Gamaliel's behavior

The committee is right to restrict the scope of this case to Gamaliel's recent actions. The issue of April Fool's in general is a red herring IMO. The hoax page was first nominated for speedy deletion on April 2, starting the train of events at issue here. Moreover, these are not trivial policy violations. WP:BLP is vital; if we allow the encyclopedia to be used to insult living persons, we undermine our entire mission. If administrators lack respect for WP:NPOV and WP:CIV, they show disrespect for those who have worked and are working on the encyclopedia. These are the issues, not humor, the Signpost, or Gamaliel's past.

Extending the case to other edits is unwarranted scope creep

By defining the case as also examining other editors' conduct, the committee undercuts the community's ability to decide most matters not involving the conduct of administrators and dilutes the concern that the community decided at AN/I should be brought to ArbCom, the conduct of an administrator (and arbitrator): [63]. A motion to censure a non-admin over this matter failed [64]. Of the other editors now added, only JzG is an administrator. This close and the dismissiveness that followed, e.g.: [65], [66], are IMO conduct unbecoming of an administrator, but hardly worth broadening the case, and the community has handled the rest (including deletion of the BLP violations).

Evidence presented by BU Rob13

Current word length: 702 (limit: 500); diff count: 0. Evidence is too long: please reduce your submission so it fits within limits.

I shortened it by collapsing a section. Please re-evaluate this and remove this note when a clerk has a chance. ~ RobTalk 01:09, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Additional parties are needed

To be fair to others, collapsing my own section due to word count. ~ RobTalk 02:40, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If DHeyward is being added as a party here, then additional parties should be added, including JzG and Arkon. See Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel_and_others/Workshop#Timeline_of_ANI_closes_and_reverts for the timeline showing them both acting improperly in handling the ANI discussion. The wording of JzG's initial close alone is a BLP violation and improper conduct for an administrator. Arkon's four reverts rather than following WP:CLOSECHALLENGE is also improper. I wish the Committee hadn't made this about specific editors, but since it has, the entire situation should be examined. ~ RobTalk 22:41, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jayen466's characterization of challenges facing The Signpost is incorrect

Above, Jayen466 wrote "On the Signpost's relationship to Wikipedia policy, it's readily apparent that much of the Signpost's reporting "violates" multiple Wikipedia policies: BLP sourcing (bold mine), original research, "Wikipedia is not a newspaper", and so forth. You cannot write a newspaper in Wikipedia without those "violations"." The Committee should wholeheartedly reject that claim. It is extremely possible to comply with BLP sourcing at The Signpost. When it comes to reporting on living individuals, especially when they're unconnected to Wikipedia and especially when reporting on them in an unfavorable light, it is possible and necessary to follow WP:BLP. If The Signpost doesn't do this, it's opening the project up to real liabilities, full stop. ~ RobTalk 22:41, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Jayen466

I skimmed the article you linked, Jayen466, and it appears to satisfy WP:BLPSOURCES for the most part, if not entirely. Links are provided throughout the article to sources (usually primary, but still sources) that verify the factual assertions about what so-and-so said about whatshername. There is some editorializing by the author regarding the events certainly, but these are not advanced as factual assertions, nor are they so negative as to constitute a BLP violation without extraordinary sourcing. The author is editorializing about ideas not people, which I think is a key difference here.

I want to be very clear for a moment about what I don't have a problem with.

  • The Signpost should not be required to abide by WP:OR or WP:NPOV, since they apply to "articles" and "encyclopedic content", respectively.
  • The Signpost should always be allowed to criticize ideas, and associating the creator of the idea with their idea does not push the criticism into "criticizing a person" territory.
  • The Signpost should be allowed to post opinion pieces that are directly related to the project, including when those opinion pieces are critical of editors or specific people involved with the project in some capacity.

When you start focusing on people rather than ideas, especially when dealing with people unrelated to the project, you brush up against WP:BLP. In the specific example of a BLP violation that prompted this case, we had an attack on a public figure based on their physical appearance. I'm reacting against the idea that The Signpost can just throw their hands up and say "We can't be a newspaper and follow BLP!" in response to that incident. That's simply not true. ~ RobTalk 01:12, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Editorializing about ideas vs. editorializing about a person's appearance are clearly different, and the "factual assertion" bit doesn't matter when you're mocking someone's appearance. In my first paragraph above, I was addressing the link you provided me with, not comparing it to the situation here. ~ RobTalk 03:56, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrator accountability

Whether an arbitrator is accountable to the community is a central issue in this case and a primary reason for acceptance. I have a lot of faith in ArbCom, and I have a deep respect for the several members who I've come across in my usual editing activities. But I'm sorry, ArbCom is blowing it on this issue. How on earth can the Committee say they're accountable to the community while the community is asking for clarification on major issues of an ongoing case and every single arbitrator is silent? Like I said, I have profound respect for every ArbCom member who I've worked with, and I'm not the typical ArbCom hater that dislikes the very idea of ArbCom. You guys (and gals) take on the most difficult and thankless job on a site full of difficult and thankless jobs. You have got to provide some explanation when the community at large is confused about a major issue in a case, though. Even if that statement is just "We can't comment due to privacy issues," you have to say something, or you're implicitly saying that ArbCom as a whole is not accountable to the community in any sense. This specifically concerns the issue of parties on this case, which has been discussed at length at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel_and_others. ~ RobTalk 02:38, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Rhoark

Current word length: 474; diff count: 4.

There was no BLP violation.

The essence of BLP violation is not in being contentious, but in being poorly sourced. Considering that the arbitration request was able to cite CNN and the Wall Street Journal to explain the joke, any non-compliance could have been "readily rectified."

No one seems to actually care whether the joke made women feel uncomfortable.

Based on past statements,[67][68] I don't think NE Ent is personally troubled. On the other hand, various Gender Gappers who generally profess to care about such things have responded in this case with phrases in the vein of "It's just a joke", "don't be so sensitive," "crocodile tears", and "weaponized policy" - which under other circumstances they would paint as revanchist woman-hating. Overall, the gender issue seems to be a red herring in this case, though one the gappers would do well to meditate on.

This is outgroup political conflict.

On-wiki at least this has not been a particularly personalized dispute. Some have suggested the locus of the problem is the interactions between Gamaliel and DHeyward, but they are both performing to the room. This article at SlateStarCodex[69] is the most illuminating thing you can read about this Arb case and the whole associated network of American politics, Gamergate, and Gender Gap-ism that extends on and off wiki.

Some follow-on actions after April 1 may have been improper.

Concerns raised in the case request, for example by Hammersoft[70], deserve consideration.

Gamergate did not make him do it.

It has been proposed that Gamaliel was baited or that he was under stress caused by off-site discussions. I can corroborate that Gamaliel's admin actions are often criticized off-site, but that is not exculpatory. It is not a workable doctrine that admin actions are acceptable in proportion to how criticized they are. Of course, that's not what's being proposed. The central premise is that Gamaliel is one of Us while those criticizing him are Them.[71] MontanaBW says it best themselves: all you need to know is the Gap has been impugned. What is being argued for is simply Blue Tribe solidarity.

Evidence presented by Only in Death

Current word length: 437; diff count: 0.

The entire article was a BLP violation.

Mostly copied my initial opening statement with some additions/changes. Given that Short-fingered vulgarian was in the process of being deleted (in part due to a number of delete voters expressing BLP concerns) at the same time as this kerfuffle, it should have been clear to anyone that there was a BLP discussion that was *required* as per WP:BLP. It should also be clear to anyone that a well-sourced encyclopedia article (despite being about an overly negative insult) is very different to a non-article piece of political smearing. I actually argued for keeping the above linked article as it was well sourced and has had lasting notability.

Article space is reliably sourced and the intent is to inform the reader. Talkpages for articles are also (when discussing contentious BLP issues) required to be sourced and relevant to the inclusion of negative material in an article. The signpost exists to provide a place for its writers to air their opinions (see editorials from the last few months). What made this a BLP violation was not the content specifically, it could be sourced as per the above article. The BLP issue is that it was from the start intended to demean and disparage a living person for no purpose other than entertainment of its author/s. It was not 'reporting' on wikipedia news (allegedly the goal of Signpost). It was a completely fabricated attack page disguised as a 'joke'. That is absolutely a BLP violation by any standard. The BLP policy applies everywhere, and Signpost does not have any exemptions. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:28, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • In reply to Montanabw's comments below on political satire and protected speech. There is no 'protected speech' on wikipedia - as a private (albeit open-access) project it can impose any restrictions it wants on speech. The BLP policy extends everywhere and has no exemptions for 'political satire' in article or non-article space. Such a basic misunderstanding of the BLP policy is clearly not limited to just Gamaliel at the signpost, so it is clear that its a culture problem with the editorial staff there and at this point I would think the entire group needs to be topic banned from BLPs. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:56, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suffice to say Montana's reply is amazingly bad and bears no resemblence to reality in how privately owned websites are run and their legal obligations to their users under the law. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:04, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Montanabw

Current word length: 1266 (limit: 500); diff count: 0. Evidence is too long: please reduce your submission so it fits within limits.

I'm not going to present a lot of diffs at this point, as I think the issue is more philosophical than a simple question of whether Gamaliel did [insert offense here] or not. So my two cents on this issue are below. Montanabw(talk) 08:37, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Full disclosure: I was one of the three named co-authors on the April Fools' Trump/Wales article and did the spoof logo. It was a group project and I will absolutely defend the right of the Signpost to run it. I most certainly think that Gamaliel does not need to be dragged over the coals for it:

The Signpost is a newsletter

The Signpost is a newsletter, not an encyclopedia article. As such it needs to follow journalistic not encyclopedic writing standards. It has long carried editorials, BIO1E stories, and things not generally covered within article space. An April Fool's article is well within a tradition of satire in newspapers, and this year, targeting Trump was done by, among other outlets, The Boston Globe.

Also, no one seems to note, or care, that we were also poking fun at Jimbo. Political satire here is not a BLP violation, it falls well within the realm of protected speech, at least under First Amendment principles. The Signpost is in respected company. Montanabw(talk) 08:37, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Editing the newsletter should not preclude other duties

Gamaliel can be on ArbCom while also being Editor in Chief of the Signpost. If the editor in chief of The New York Times wanted to be on ArbCom, would it be disqualifying? No. There is an idea that people on ArbCom should have no personal views or opinions. That is sheer nonsense; everyone has opinions and biases. What matters is if an ArbCom member can be neutral when they are asked to rule on an issue. Given the substantial number of recusals on this case, it's clear that people recognize this distinction. Montanabw(talk) 08:37, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Other issues are involved

As far as the actions he took with admin tools and his actions at the various ANI attacks, I think that the peripheral issues do need to be considered. There was a dogpile by people who have been after Gamaliel due to his actions on other issues. The tone alone is telling. References by others here on this page to the Gender Gap project, or making false analogies to women's issues in general pretty much make the case. Montanabw(talk) 08:37, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Appropriate action

  1. To the extent that Gamaliel used admin tools where he should not have, I hope ArbCom discusses measured sanctions, not a wholesale "off with his head" approach that has, too often, been characteristic of some on-Wikipedia justice. The pitchforks-and-torches crowd should not be allowed to dictate mob rule to ArbCom. Montanabw(talk) 08:37, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2. The issue of a) fake "archive" articles b) the main April Fools' satire piece, and c) Gamiel's use of the toolkit are three separate things. ArbCom needs to focus on user actions in this case, and to keep in mind who ALL the players were, including those who took the Signpost content to ANI and to ArbCom. No question that WP:BAITing was involved. Montanabw(talk) 18:40, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Protected speech exists on WMF projects

Per my comment just posted above (Apr 20, #2) and comments from other users here, I invite everyone to peruse the excellent discussion about free speech and satire that took place on Commons about deleting the fake logo file (and the logo has been kept there, FWIW). It was a comprehensive discussion of the role of law. Constitutional rights are not "shed at the schoolhouse gate" or on Wikipedia. (see, e.g. Tinker v. Des Moines) In the real world, there are clear limits to "free speech", particularly certain forms of hate speech and such, but satire in journalism is clearly well-protected. Here, the BLP policy is clear for article space and I wholeheartedly support it there. I also fully support NPOV and all of the other pillars, posts, guidelines and common sense in article space. But the Signpost is JOURNALISM, which is different (though there were still many inline citations to specific statements and IMHO, no BLP violation there anyway). (Edited for length with one new sentence added) Montanabw(talk) 22:05, 23 April 2016 (UTC) [reply]

hatting the remainder the Constitutional speech discussion to keep evidence within requested limits.

A statement like "... as a private (albeit open-access) project it can impose any restrictions it wants on speech" is simply incorrect. It is fundamentally at odds with the law in the real world, particularly the United States (where this editor lives, where Gamaliel lives, and where the WMF is headquartered). (OK, so it's not the New York Times or the Boston Globe, but it makes no claims to be) It's a sometimes-fun little newsletter containing some news, some opinions, some updates, and assorted interesting tidbits about popular articles (Really, the traffic report has been a hotbed of mildly satirical and snarky commentary on WP articles and those who read them for some time). It is not a wholesale forum for personal attacks, but there is a line, albeit one not always noticed by the targets, between a bit of poking fun at public figures for their well-known and highly publicized foibles and actual attacks. Jimbo, as the founder-god of wikipedia, is fair game for a bit of in-house humor. A major public figure who led the most-read articles list for a month is a natural pairing for a once-a-year satire. Montanabw(talk) 18:40, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Dennis Brown: "... the federal government's actions, not anyone else's" Um, no. You seem to forget there is also a Fourteenth Amendment and no one can be denied due process - by anyone. Also, there is massive caselaw on private lawsuits in employment law cases involving wrongful discharge by corporate employers. Political speech happens to be one of the most protected areas in law that there is. While an employer can restrict certain things like canvassing for a candidate at a workplace, or wearing campaign materials such as buttons or t-shirts, they cannot tell me that I cannot, for example, write a letter to the editor of my newspaper. But let's not let this issue detract from the real issue, which is Gamaliel's specific actions and his fate. I think he's being dragged over the coals, but I also will acknowledge that he may have overreached with his toolkit, which is the actual issue before the ArbCom tribunal. Montanabw(talk) 22:48, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've been pinged a couple times, Townlake most recently but we have length limits here, so where to reply in depth? In short, do not misunderstand my position: I do not believe the ‘’Signpost’’ article was a BLP violation; it was satire. Satire, as a general rule, is protected speech in general, but subject to reasonable limits: it is not OK in article space per NPOV, WP:V, WP:RS, etc., but I would argue that it is acceptable in a news forum, particularly where it also accepts op-ed pieces (which are also not appropriate for mainspace per NPOV, etc.). The BLP policy is basically to prevent inclusion of material that is, essentially, libelous. I agree that sort of thing is never OK, and though seldom prosecuted, libel generally does not fall under First Amendment protections. Satire is not libel; it’s comedy. There is a difference. Montanabw(talk) 08:15, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Fram

Current word length: 863 (limit: 500); diff count: 30. Evidence is too long: please reduce your submission so it fits within limits.

Problematic actions (admin and editor)

  • 3 April: removes CSD tag from page he created[72]
  • 6 April: 3* recloses ANI section about him (closed with very dubious rationale by JzG)[73][74][75]. First revert has ironic edit summary "Reverting revert of closure by involved party.", apparently not realising that he is an involved party here. Next ones warn against edit warring and 3RR (again, ironic)
  • 7 April: [76] first of multiple posts by User:Milowent (e.g. [77], [78]) mocking the issue and casting aspersions on editors perceiving a BLP problem.
  • 7 April: protection of page Gamaliel created after being blanked as WP:POINT violation[79]. Then deleted by Gamaliel 2 minutes after MfD was initiated.
  • User:JzG closed section as not needing admin attention with a potshot at some perceived 3RR violation by OP but without comment on Gamaliels actions[80]. I reopened it[81] explaining why the close was wrong: JzG did not answer to this (posts elsewhere showed his bias clearly[82]). I did not yet know that JzG had closed the discussion a day earlier, sniping at the OP and repeating the BLP "joke".
  • [83] User:MarkBernstein starts with personal attacks ("right-wing extremists"?) and is the first to link to Gamergate.
  • Gamaliel adds fuel to the fire, spurred along by Milowent.[84]
  • Adds fake 2016 page to 2010 Signpost index [85], then adds a testpage[86]. I remove these redlinks[87], get reverted[88] with "stop messing with our templates please" WP:OWN. User:Mr Ernie again removes the redlinks, gets reverted by User:MontanaBW[89] (co-author of Signpost page) with "please do not edit-war".

First User:Jayen466 (cocreator of Signpost page)[90] and then Gamaliel[91] change the link to deleted page on Signpost "joke" page, but with another target in a rather blatant WP:POINT violation.

A week later, Gamaliel misuses his position as editor-in-chief of Signpost creating Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2016-04-14/Gallery; No link to Wikipedia, a selection of political cartoons preferencing US presidents and elections; it is only meaningful for people aware of this case. A blatant abuse of a position of trust and WP:POINT violation.

On 13 April, Gamaliel rev-del'ed an edit by User:Ryk72 with two links to reddit discussions.[92] I examined the first of these links and noted that the main subject of that discussion is Gamaliel. This is a clear WP:INVOLVED breach. Gamaliel denies that his conduct is the subject of that link.

6/7 april, Gamaliel violated 3RR on Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel and others/Evidence/Wikipedia Signpost/2010-03-17/News and notes:

ADMINACCT

My first ANI statement was about the removal of the CSD tag from a page Gamaliel created[97]. No reaction followed.

I then noted the involved protection by Gamaliel[98]. To this he swiftly responded (good), bringing up harassment as the reason[99]. Not the last time that argument would be used to defend unrelated actions and admin tool misuse. I replied[100], but he still claims that the protection of that page at that moment was a "perfectly routine, acceptable" action[101].

In 2 posts[102] I added further problematic actions by Gamaliel. He did not respond to those posts.

I added other problematic actions[103][104]. No reaction followed.

He finally replied, when I raised adminacct specifically, on 14 April[105]. "Seriously? It's a violation of WP:ADMINACCT because I didn't respond to aggressive questioning quickly and sufficiently? " Not replying for a week to e.g. a claim of policy-violation when removing a CSD tag is a violation of AdminAcct.

Gamergate claims and vilification of everyone who utters criticism

Gamaliel claimed discussion was partly by "the editors who came here from the offsite canvassing at Gamergate forums"[106], without here (or later) providing any evidence for this or indicating who these editors were. This was remarked upon by User:Sitush[107].

He repeated the claims, coupled with other PAs, here. All editors (bar JzG) who dared to criticize him are apparently either not "serious members of the community who express real concerns in a civil manner ", or members of the groups "people who perceive me to be their ideological opponent", "Gamergate editors stirred up by a thread on reddit", "editors who call me a Nazi or who use their userpage to attack living people", and can thus be ignored completely.

MarkBernstein reinforced this[108], discussing the "Gamergate crowd" and later the "whole Gamergate mob"[109]

Gamaliel then tries to outdo him, and states[110] "This is very much about Gamergate, it's why 90% of the participants are here and it's exploded out of control, just like anything involving Gamergate." Perhaps Gamaliel can indicate in his "evidence" section how he calculated the 90%? He should be able to indicate which of the participants were there because of Gamergate. I'll help with a first name: MarkBernstein.

Signpost independence / WP:OWN

(removed because probably outside of scope here)

Reply to Jayen466

(short, as my section is too long already): "But I think you'd expect Signpost staff to back you up if an editor came out of the blue and insisted on changing your content without discussion." No one was changing content, the discussion was about keeping or deleting content. If my post to the Signpost would have been unacceptable (BLP, POINT, whatever), I would expect people to blank it, nominate it for deletion, ... Fram (talk) 08:42, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Ched

Current word length: 38; diff count: 0.

Wiki fucked up

Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia. We're not supposed to be a blog or a platform for political satire. Is that clear enough for everyone to understand? — Ched :  ?  09:40, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Johnuniq

The Signpost article was effective as a joke because it raised the very plausible scenario that Wikipedia would publish an image related to one politician's attack on another, and that the victim of the attack might sue Wikipedia.

The Signpost joke implied that someone had uploaded an attack image (very plausible), and that legal action had been threatened (very plausible given recent headlines: Feb 15, Mar 28, Mar 30). The joke was not a rehash of the hands issue.

By contrast, this 15 May 2015 Gamergate comment is clearly a BLP violation because, while well intentioned, it was a gratuitous discourse regarding two named people and whether they traded sex for material benefit. Saying "No one investigated whether X traded sex for anything because no one cares" draws attention to a known-to-be-false claim regarding a BLP. Gamaliel was the second editor to redact that (diff).

A really egregious BLP violation was the highlighting of an attack at the top of Donald Trump with two procedural edits by others: 03:10 3 April 2016 and 21:55 3 April 2016. That was quickly removed, but these incidents show that many editors do not have a good grasp of BLP principles, so the fact that a group declared the Signpost article to be an attack should not be taken as the last word. Of course Signpost is not immune from BLP concerns, and it was appropriate for the page to be removed after a due time, but it was not the BLP crisis that has been claimed.

Signpost has a lot of readers and any clear-cut problem would be quickly fixed. I cannot find any discussion suggesting there might have been an issue before a speedy-delete tag was added at 06:21, 3 April 2016, 38 hours after the page was created. Things got out of hand, but under the circumstances, it was reasonable for Gamaliel to defend the live Signpost article—at least a dozen admins would have seen the page and could have deleted it immediately if they felt it warranted. Johnuniq (talk) 05:21, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Masem

Evidence presented by Milowent

Current word length: 480; diff count: 7.

How to get from a dumb joke to ARBCOM in 7 days

I have never participated in ARBCOM before but I assumed the Supreme Court of Wikipedia deals with weighty issues. And surely they do, but this case is only about petty bickering. At User:Milowent/sandbox4 I painstakingly created a timeline for posterity which goes far beyond 500 words, so here are my key points of evidence:

  • Gamaliel created a silly joke on April 1, for April's Fools Day. (Screenshot: [111])
  • Silly jokes which theoretically implicate BLP in the strictest sense have existed since 2001 without complaint, see, e.g., WP:Silly things, and Wikipedia:Best_of_BJAODN#From_Dikembe_Mutombo which preserves a renaming of a black basketball player that is arguably as racist as the "small hands" joke is a BLP violation.
  • Starting on April 3, a drama war over this headline began which bears no rational relationship in scope to the alleged crime.
  • The primary instigators against Gamaliel have been DHeyward and Arkon. DHeyward is just bristly by nature. Arkon is probably half-trolling.
  • DHeyward tried to CSD the dummy article[112], goes to the admin noticeboard when that fails[113], changes the dummy page to read 'Small Hands' Gamaliel created this [114], MFD's Gamaliel's "this user small hands" userbox created in frustration[115], and later goes to Jimbo's page to complain about the joke logo.[116] (after trying to get it deleted off Commons[117])
  • Arkon starts a blanking war over the dummy page and reverts it three times, e.g., [118], starts an ANI thread over the blanking war and reverts JzG's close of that thread four times, e.g., [119], and tells JzG to "fuck right off" for trying to close the ANI.[120]. He does have a sense of humor, calling Trump "his hairness"[121] (BLP VIOLATION!) and creating User:Arkon/TheSighPost for some venting. (Full disclosure, I created the very silly PsyPost in response to him, because my opinion has always been that this whole thing is stupid and no one really is defending Donald Trump's sacred honor. I courtesy blanked the PsyPost yesterday after DHeyward (of course!) sent it to CSD[122] under an improper rationale.)
  • Gamaliel could have laid back and let others do more. No One Man Can Save The Wiki.[123] He certainly was forceful in beating off his opponents, see diffs cites by others. But the whole kerfuffle was a drama war mostly at his expense. He is the EIC of the Signpost, he is also trying to maintain the article, as silly as it is, from outside forces. Though journalistic integrity was not threatened in this case.

--Milowent • hasspoken 15:35, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Coretheapple

Gamaliel acted improperly

It's plain from the evidence that he acted improperly, such as by removing the CSD template[124]. He ought to know better. I am not familiar with the "gamergate" background of this and I don't think it's relevant. The "first amendment" argument is a red herring. Yes, it was a BLP violation, clearly. The fact that it was a bad "joke" is irrelevant.

A double standard exists

While I disagree with his action, as I believe this was not a proper reason to close the ANI discussion, SB_Johnny was correct when he said that no one is going to act against a sitting arbitrator. I think that same general principle applies to administrators, which is that a double standard applies to their behavior as well. The Committee needs to reaffirm that arbitrators and administrators are not to receive favored treatment in the drama boards. It will be useless to reaffirm that, of course. It won't do any good at all, since admins have life tenures. But lip service must be paid.

April Fool is used as an excuse for misconduct

One of the persons making a big fuss over Gamaliel's behavior, NE Ent, himself thought it was "funny" to close an ANI on joke grounds.[125] It wasn't funny, and it was disruptive.

I notice that some of the participants in this discussion, on both sides, have acted as if there is some kind of "April Fool's Day Exemption" from BLP and the rules against disruption ("It's a joke based on body shaming. It has to go. April 1 is over and it's clearly a BLP violation.") Arbcom should state very clearly that no bad "joke" is justification, on or after 4/1.

All this said, I don't see this case involving anything earth-shattering. Gamaliel acted in accordance with the current Wikipedia climate: double standard for admins, dumb April Fool's Day jokes tolerated. Chopping his head doesn't seem fair. I do think some action is warranted, but I am not sure what. My main concern here is in the general stupidity of 1) April Fool "jokes" and 2) the double standard.

-- Coretheapple (talk) 14:01, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Mrjulesd

Time to put this charade to bed

Basically per User:Milowent. Milowent has spoken and you should definitely listen. Of all the ArbCom cases I've looked at this is the silliest. Pretty Kafkaesque, Franz Kafka would have been proud had he written it. A large WP:TROUT is in order to anyone who promoted it.

Honestly what is it about? Well there's a highly productive and good-faithed contributor called Gamaliel, who seems to have has been successful here, but has also dabbled in controversial areas like Gamergate creating a few enemies. There is also a dubious WP:BLP violation. Now we could argue all day whether a BLP violation occurred. But even if it did (which I personally do not accept) it extremely minor in nature, and not deserving of any administrative action. And that's about it, all further complaints merely seem like score settling for past disagreements. The removal of the CSD template [126] is justified as the template was misused.

I would urge ArbCom to reject any action to be taken against Gamaliel. It is all frivolous in nature, and just would encourage these sort of ridiculous cases to be presented.

Evidence presented by Arkon

It looks like any evidence I would provide is already included by others (The MFD, AN/I). Nothing else I can really add to most of the above, as my involvement mostly ended at the end of the AN/I thread, other than a few statements at the case request. If anyone has any questions on my actions, please let me know! Arkon (talk) 12:34, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I suppose it can't hurt to just get this out of the way:

I blanked the page in question as a BLP vio here, here, and [127]. After ed protected it, I opened the AN/I. After JzG closed the AN/I with another BLP vio, not to mention inaccurate summary of the discussion[128], I reverted that here, here, here, and here. I think that pretty much covers it. Arkon (talk) 13:16, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Pudeo

Evidence presented by PeterTheFourth

Dheyward has acted inappropriately towards Gamaliel recently

On the 13th of April, DHeyward called Gamaliel a cancer. [129].

On the 13th of April, DHeyward added the 'democrat' userbox to Gamaliel's user page, with the edit summary of 'removing this seemed odd'. [130]

DHeyward (replying to somebody who informed him that this was inappropriate) asserts that he re-added the user box because he believed vandals had removed it. (This was not the case.) [131]

The userbox had been off the page for ~10 months at the time. PeterTheFourth (talk) 05:40, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Gerda Arendt

DYK ... that Herbert L. Packer proposed two models for the US criminal justice system, crime control and due process, which became influential in criminal policy debates?

There is evidence that we have already too many words on this page which could have been used for article writing. I support the comments by Jayen466, Milowent and Mrjulesd. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:15, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Staberinde

Accusations about "Gamergate editors"

Gamaliel has extremely liberally thrown Gamergate related accusations towards his critics, discrediting them as participants of some kind of offsite Gamergate campaign against him.
This started in ANI:

  • [132] - " to the editors who came here from the offsite canvassing at Gamergate forums "
  • [133] - "I do not take Gamergate editors stirred up by a thread on reddit seriously."
  • [134] - "This is very much about Gamergate, it's why 90% of the participants are here and it's exploded out of control, just like anything involving Gamergate."

And continued in his opening comment of the case request:

  • [135] - "The record will also show that much of the drama here was driven by editors with self-admitted grudges against me personally or were directed here from multiple off-site Gamergate forums."

As far as I can tell, he has not backed up those accusations with any evidence. My own quick check on ANI thread showed that clear majority of editors criticizing "the joke" or Gamaliel's conduct have never even edited Gamergate controversy article or its talk page.--Staberinde (talk) 16:24, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Signpost and BLP

If Signpost editors feel that they need exemptions from policies like BLP, then appropriate course of action is to start a RfC on the issue. Until such exemptions have been agreed by the community, other editors have the right to challenge them on basis of existing policies.--Staberinde (talk) 16:24, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Equality between parties of the case

An arbcom case involving parties in completely different standing on Wikipedia’s informal hierarchy, must take all possible steps to guarantee that parties stand on even ground. In this case the Arbcom has failed to do so. It has been admitted that, unless Gamaliel is removed from the Arbcom, after the case ends he will have access to the email list that includes Arbitrator private discussion regarding the case and the privately submitted evidence [136]. Other parties who are not arbitrators will not have such privilege. This appears especially relevant as there have been already several decisions in this case where preceding on-wiki discussion has been minimal or non-existent. These include: adding DHeyward as party, IBAN between DHeyward and Gamaliel, adding Arkon and JzG as parties, the Arbitration motion restricting Gamaliel. While the Arbcom probably will not be able to fix the issue for this case, the problem should be acknowledged and taken in account for future cases involving sitting arbitrators. Issues like these affect community's perception of the proceedings, case result, and the committee itself.--Staberinde (talk) 13:10, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to Jayen466

Perhaps, but even if I agree with you on that, it is still just a personal opinion of two editors, that others can disagree with. I wouldn't have edit warred over "the joke", but I can understand reasoning of those who did, and there really isn't any policy establishing that they were wrong due to Signpost's special function.--Staberinde (talk) 17:14, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Alanscottwalker

Signpost and BLP (follow-up on Staberinde)

In furtherance of Staberinde Signpost and BLP section, I put in evidence that certainly there are "newsletters" on English Wikipedia, see eg. Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News, that can apparently be made at anytime by anyone. It's not only beyond this committee's jurisdiction and power (see, Wikipedia:Arbitration) to specially shield the newsletters like the Signpost from BLP, but it would be irresponsible. The free speech discussion above is rather irrelevant, except to the extent one looks to aphorism: If it is true that 'free speech exists for ideas one hates', than surely BLP exists for people one hates (this being the internet, and all). Yes, it's easy to fall afoul of BLP by mistake or inadvertence, but when that occurs get out quick. It is just necessary to accept that bald opinions and trifling against living people is going to be problematic on ENWikipedia, calling into disrepute the ENWP project, its pillars and policies, including NOT (so, this ctte should not exempt parts of the project from the raising of BLP issues). Alanscottwalker (talk) 15:57, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence presented by Townlake

The Signpost's status requires WMF attention

The evidence supplied by MontanaBW is interesting. A Signpost writer is claiming freedom of the press protections for Signpost that cannot reconcile with WP:BLP. The first sentence of that policy makes it very clear BLP policy applies to every page on Wikipedia, not just articles. It is an open question whether Signpost accepts adherence to this policy as a price of having access to distribution through Wikipedia, or whether it needs to.

Of course, BLP shouldn't be an issue here since the community settled the immediate issue. But a Signpost contributor has raised the Signpost's right to BLP latitude here as an umbrella issue, and this shouldn't be ignored. If Arbcom agrees or ignores this argument, and WMF doesn't intervene, I worry it may become open season for any Wikipedian with an axe to grind to post whatever they want about any living person in non-article space, label themselves a journalist and the attack "satire," and have a solid argument to stand behind. I hope that doesn't happen.

If Signpost insists on having latitude for satire, I personally think it may be better for the Signpost to find a non-Wikipedia host site where it would be free of Wikipedia policy requirements. This wouldn't be a new model; there are several sites I know of outside the warm embrace of Jimbo's servers that do a capable job of reporting on Wikipedia from critical, complimentary, and neutral perspectives.

Everyone on the Arbitration Committee works shoulder-to-shoulder with the current Signpost editor-in-chief, and some Committee members have volunteered for the Signpost, so asking this group to assess this issue neutrally strikes me as unreasonable. And a legal issue has been raised about the Signpost's rights that is probably outside this Committee's ambit. Therefore, I respectfully request that Arbcom seek WMF guidance on the status and freedoms of the Signpost as part of its work on this case.

Reply to Ryk72

As you'd expect, I respectfully disagree about the relevance of Signpost to this case. If BLP doesn't apply to Signpost, what Wikipedia policies do apply to Signpost? Any? I think Signpost's status -- and whether the actors should have known that status -- is the core of the case.

Evidence presented by {your user name}

*****Before using the last evidence template, please make a copy for the next person*****

{Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support your assertion; for example, your first assertion might be "So-and-so engages in edit warring", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits to specific articles which show So-and-so engaging in edit warring.

{Write your assertion here}

Place argument and diffs which support the second assertion; for example, your second assertion might be "So-and-so makes personal attacks", which should be the title of this section. Here you would show specific edits where So-and-so made personal attacks.

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gamaliel_and_others/Evidence&oldid=718987746"