Talk:World Trade Center

PAGE HISTORY

• This page was until today the talk page of the original page World Trade Center, which today was moved to Talk:World Trade Center/old. That page had over time been text-split into the 3 pages World Trade Center (1973–2001), World Trade Center (2001–present), World Trade Center site. For more information see the new disambiguation page World Trade Center. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:34, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

against splitting

i'm against splitting the whole article into two.

The reason is:

I think, that it's better to have the subject resumed in one article, and instead of a desambiguation page, turn that page into a resumed article with links to the sister articles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pancho507

History merge

History merge (part 1)

• We just can't leave the history of this article at a dab page. The question is, though, for proper GFDL/CC attribution, should this go under the 1973-2001 article, or the 2001-present one? The 2001-present one was clearly shaped and revised through the history of this page too, though. hbdragon88 (talk) 16:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure. Although there was clear consensus for this, I don't believe that the process was done correctly. But then again, how does one separate the edit history of one article into two separate ones?--JOJ ^Hutton 16:16, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, at the top you can see the {{split from}} gives attribution of history after August 10 to the new articles. And on the new articles' talk pages, {{split to}} attributes the history before August 10 to the old article. Epic Genius (talk) 18:19, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

There are over 5,000 edits; a Steward is required. bd2412 T 00:03, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• The 9 latest edits (the disambig edits) have been history-split off by a m:steward and I history-merged them into World Trade Center (disambiguation). Page World Trade Center now describes the new building. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:23, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
  • @Anthony Appleyard: Actually, we have a problem. There are three articles now: the old buildings, at World Trade Center (1973–2001); the new buildings, at World Trade Center (2001–present); and the page World Trade Center before it was history split, now a combination of the two preceding articles. Besides, the article "World Trade Center" should not be its own article anymore because it was split into two different pages and redirected to a disambiguation page. I suggest that article "World Trade Center" be history merged into article "World Trade Center (1973–2001)". Epic Genius (talk) 14:26, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Actually, I guess that "World Trade Center" article should be redirected to the disambiguation page, per overwhelming consensus to split the page and the fact that neither complex is the primary topic. Epic Genius (talk) 16:25, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
• The pages World Trade Center and World Trade Center (1973–2001) are WP:Parallel histories, so cannot be history-merged. Page World Trade Center (1973–2001) runs from 15:28, 11 March 2015‎ to 09:22, 14 August 2015 at about 82600 bytes. Page World Trade Center runs from 02:06, 23 October 2001‎ to 16:26, 14 August 2015, gradually growing from about 5000 to about 124800 bytes. The two should be text-merged. I have reverted World Trade Center (disambiguation) to disambiguation, and World Trade Center to redirect to World Trade Center (disambiguation). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:45, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Why would you do that? That is against the guidelines at WP:DABNAME. It says The title of a disambiguation page is the ambiguous term itself, provided there is no primary topic for that term. The primary topic name does not redirect to a disambiguation if the primary name is free to be the disambiguation name.--JOJ ^Hutton 16:50, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
• World Trade Center and World Trade Center (1973–2001) are both about the old WTC building, but World Trade Center has more text and about 8000 edits, and World Trade Center (1973–2001) has about 51 edits Try this, in this order?:-
  • Move World Trade Center (1973–2001) to World Trade Center (1973–2001)(version 2) (leaving no redirects).
  • Move World Trade Center to World Trade Center (1973–2001) (leaving no redirects) and revert it to the full-text edit 12:43, 14 August 2015 by DumbBOT.
  • Move World Trade Center (disambiguation) to World Trade Center.
    • Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:30, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
      • Well, that won't work very well, because the full text version of the article is the unsplit version. This would necessitate another histmerge. Epic Genius (talk) 21:55, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
• @Epicgenius: Sorry. Try this?:-
  • Move World Trade Center to World Trade Center (old and new buildings) or some such name, to get it out of the way. (Re-histmerging the disambig edits onto World Trade Center's end is not a good idea, because World Trade Center has about 8000 edits and so any operation needing deleting or undeleting it would need a m:steward.)
  • Move World Trade Center (disambiguation) to World Trade Center. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:00, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
    • @Anthony Appleyard: Well, because you need a steward to merge the two articles, I suppose that works. Epic Genius (talk) 00:02, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
• User:Jenks24 at 07:01, 15 August 2015 (UTC) in #History merge (part 2) suggested move World Trade Center to Talk:World Trade Center/old, and then move World Trade Center (disambiguation) to World Trade Center. But what should happen to Talk:World Trade Center and its dependent pages? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:17, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
  • I would leave the talk page where it is with a short explanation at the top of the page. It would be useful for editors coming to the page and wondering why there's no article here. Jenks24 (talk) 12:27, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
•  Done. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:37, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
  • I have removed the timestamp next to your comment in the "Page History" section above. Otherwise, it would be archived by the bot. Epic Genius (talk) 19:41, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
    • Wait, actually, removing the comment doesn't make sense. I'll have to duplicate it. I added an {{ombox}} above. Epic Genius (talk) 19:45, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

History merge (part 2)

Hi, I'd like to request a histmerge from World Trade Center to World Trade Center (1973–2001). The page contents was split out from World Trade Center to several pages, but the page history of the original World Trade Center article remains at World Trade Center. I'm not exactly sure which revision to histmerge from exactly though.

Also, I noticed that World Trade Center became a dab page and was copy/pasted moved from World Trade Center (disambiguation). This also needs to be histmerged.

Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 18:29, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• What needs doing first seems to be:-

  (1) History-split: Delete page World Trade Center.

  (2) Undelete World Trade Center except its last few edits (21:20, 10 August 2015‎ and after), or undelete only its edits 21:20, 10 August 2015‎ and after.

  • But this fails at step (1), because page World Trade Center has over 5000 edits and I am not a m:steward. Sorry.
  • Perhaps put in one of these pages' talk pages a history section describing who moved what where and when. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:14, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
    • There is no neat way to split the history, so it should definitely go with the 1973-2001 article. bd2412 T 00:07, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
      • It can't easily go with the 1973-2001 article though, because there are parallel histories. Unless you only histmerge the edits from before about 12 March? That leaves ~40-50 edits in limbo though. Frankly this is a mess and probably best handled by attribution notes on the various talk pages. Pinging also Graham87 in case he's interested. Jenks24 (talk) 05:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
        • I'm ok with using attribution notes, however, the history of the World Trade Center article still needs to be moved somewhere and not left on the dab page. Also, the dab page history at World Trade Center (disambiguation) needs to be moved over as well. Natg 19 (talk) 07:29, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
          • Yergh! The World Trade Center article should not be history-merged with World Trade Center (1973–2001), because there was never a cut-and-paste move between those pages. But the current page definitely needs to be history-merged with World Trade Center (disambiguation). Perhaps the best solution is just to move the disambiguation page at the disambiguation title (by cut and paste)? I'd usually be strongly against something like this, but it's the easiest way to make the page histories make sense. Graham87 07:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Call a m:steward and get him to do this?:-

  (1) Delete page World Trade Center.

  (2) Undelete page World Trade Center's edits 21:20, 10 August 2015‎ and after.

  (3) Move page World Trade Center to World Trade Center/oddment or some such temporary name.

  (4) Undelete page World Trade Center.

  • and ordinary admins can likely do the rest of what needs doing. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• World Trade Center's history should not be merged with World Trade Center (1973–2001)'s history. That would be a mess, as both have histories of their own: the latter was incubated in the Draft namespace for almost half a year before it became an article, and besides, it was already history-merged with Draft:World Trade Center (1973–2001). In any case, the attribution is in the {{split from}} and {{split to}} that I put on top of each talkpage involved. (Also, it would be better to switch the history of World Trade Center with that of World Trade Center (disambiguation), as the former is now a dab page that was copy-paste moved from the latter.) Epic Genius (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• I think the simplest solution is to move World Trade Center to Talk:World Trade Center/old without leaving a redirect and leave it their for atribution purposes. Then to move World Trade Center (disambiguation) to World Trade Center. Ruslik_Zero 19:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• @Ruslik0, Graham87, Jenks24, and BD2412: See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive273#Request for action by steward: I have asked for a m:steward to history-split the recent disambig edits off World Trade Center into World Trade Center/disambig2. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:45, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
•  Done —DerHexer (Talk) 12:03, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
• I have history-merged World Trade Center/disambig2 to World Trade Center (disambiguation). World Trade Center is now about the new building. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:13, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure why you did that. That was not the over powering consensus. The consensus was to split the articles, not to make it about just the new buildings.--JOJ ^Hutton 14:20, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
    • Well, this is a very unusual situation. I think that for this one case, the disambiguation page should stay at the World Trade Center (disambiguation) title, even though the most logical proposal would be to move the whole thing over to World Trade Center. However, since "World Trade Center" has its own edit history that needs to be preserved, it is best left as a redirect, as the disambiguation page also has its own history, and attribution is placed on all related talk pages. Epic Genius (talk) 17:15, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
      • Sorry, typo. Page World Trade Center is now partly about the old buildings and partly about the new buildings. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:46, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
        • That is why a histmerge would not work anymore. The consensus was to split the articles, so one is exclusively about the old buildings, and the other is solely about the new buildings. Epic Genius (talk) 21:57, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
          • There is nothing "unusual "about this situation. Its plain and simple, there is not need to disambiguate a topic and then redirect that exact topic top the disambiguation article. Its the guideline and its common sense.--JOJ ^Hutton 22:59, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
• See at the end of section #History merge (part 1). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:15, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
• The current situation is obviously less than ideal. A base title should not redirect to the page with "(disambiguation)" in it (WP:MALPLACED). Would everyone be OK if I moved the old history at this title to Talk:World Trade Center/old (we need to keep it for attribution) and move the dab page here? Jenks24 (talk) 07:01, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
• This topic is also being discussed at the end of section #History merge (part 1); please continue this discussion there. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:14, 15 August 2015 (UTC)