Talk:Ar Tonelico 2

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BetacommandBot 15:20, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

 Done Zemalia 22:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Lots of stuff to change

Hey I'm pretty new to major edits on Wikipedia, though I have done small edits anonymously for years. A couple of things in this article bear changing I think. For one I think the title should be Ar tonelico 2: Melody of Metafalica or Ar tonelico II: Melody of Metafalica, which will be the English name per http://www.nisamerica.com/news/20080926.html I made a redirect page at Ar tonelico 2: Melody of Metafalica and Ar tonelico II: Melody of Metafalica but that's all I really know how to do as far as that. Also I think the rather large Characters section should be split off from the main article as was done in Ar tonelico: Melody of Elemia. I could probably do that, but that is a pretty major thing to do and I wasn't sure if it was just "cool" to go at it. Squall4226 (talk) 08:08, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I just sort of went at it

I just sort of went at it and did most of the stuff I was talking about above. I went ahead and copied the Characters section from the main article to List of characters in Ar tonelico 2 using pretty much the format @ List of characters in Ar tonelico. I also moved everything to Ar tonelico II: Melody of Metafalica I think I did it the hard way, I don't know but I think it's right now. Anyway sorry if I was too bold or anything. Squall4226 (talk) 11:42, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Plural form of Reyvateil?

I'm not sure if the plural form of Reyvateil is "Reyvateil" or "Reyvateils". Any thoughts? Squall4226 (talk) 02:50, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe the English version of the first game had an s at the end. DeathWeed (talk) 23:38, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Section on US name changes

Is the US name changes section really necessary? The section has no sources whatsoever, sounds pretty heavily biased, and is quite poorly written. The changes could just as easily be mentioned in the article itself by simply noting the original Japanese terms in parentheses. 76.28.11.128 (talk) 20:59, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree that it certainly isn't right at the moment. Some terms were definitely changed, comparing the official websites will reveal that. To what extent things were changed I don't know, as English is the only language I speak and furthermore, the game has not yet been released to the U.S. so it is really hard to tell what has and/or will be changed. I will (or someone else can) work on that section, either by making it more readable or by incorporating it into the main article. I do think the information is important and should be in the article, I'm just not sure on where and how. Squall4226 (talk) 22:05, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't like the changes, but I simply don't think an exhaustive list of them belongs in a Wikipedia article; it's a fictional detail of very little interest to most people. I have no problem with the information if it can be integrated with rest of the article, but I think the section as it currently stands should be deleted. Since certain editors seem vehement on re-adding it, though, I just threw a template at it. -Seventh Holy Scripture (talk) 18:21, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, that section looks written by someone with more of a grudge than actual objective infromative intent in mind. While the information is correct, it's hugely exaggerated: Pira/Phira only comes into play if you somehow have the translated lyrics for the Metafalica songs, and even then it's just a minor detail from side materials, Truely"waath" only matters if you've somehow learnt Hymnos and remembered what that translated to, and Pastalia/Pastalie again only matters if you've read the never-translated side materials that speak of that stuff. Someone playing through the game, even someone playing through both the Japanese and English versions would only notice some slight differences in spelling on those cases, they are completely alien to anything even approaching vital plot points. Ephyon (talk) 15:35, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I think this is getting out of hand. I've seen the "Hymmnos terms changes" and "Reception" sections been deleted and restored several times, as well as List of characters in Ar tonelico II‎ experiencing an edit war between English and Japanese names (though that might have cooled off now), and someone has probably broken the WP:3RR. Any suggestions what to do? Putting a request for comments at the WikiProject might be a start, but the folks on the other side of the dispute don't seem interested in holding a dialogue. -Seventh Holy Scripture (talk) 19:44, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok, this is ridiculous.

The hymmnos changes section is little more than trivia. Think about it - do you need to know what these terms mean (or any hymmnos, for that matter) to understand the game's plot? No? Then it's not as important as devout fans believe - and I say this as a devout fan myself. Is it interesting? That's another matter entirely. There is a place where such trivia is acceptable, and it isn't Wikipedia, I think. The Errors and Bugs section lightly covers the changes, and I believe an external link should be put there if all these changes *must* be mentioned at all. However, I personally don't have as much (I'd still rather it not be there, but this is my attempt at compromising) of a problem with the section in general if a few things are done:

• Citations (a problem that isn't exclusive to this section). I know where it comes from - a message board, and from a trusted "expert" at that. But the poster doesn't meet Wikipedia's criteria for including questionable citations. However, no one is stopping you from citing foreign language books, despite the fact that English is preferable.
• Reformatting. The arrows get to me. Change them into (proper) sentences, or a table, or something more professional. Looks fine on a message board, not here.
• Shorten it to the essentials. I don't think we need to know all the details.
• Avoid referring to Japanese terms in an explanation (i.e. Haibanation). This is the English language Wikipedia, and as such, we should generally use the English terms. I've noted other sections using "Chroche" and "Jakuri", and that should be avoided as well.

And how about instead of restoring the section 1000 times, fix the problem instead. I don't want it there at all, and thus, I removed the problem entirely. And, again, there is the wiki I linked - which is what I'd prefer you all to go to. If this goes too far, I'll see about requesting mediation or some other method of resolution. Craven Lunatic (talk) 03:14, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I know we are talking about English Wiki here, The rule is a rule, Okay I understand that but meanwhile Wiki didn't stand for a "false" or "wrong" or "make up" too. The game get localize, yeah..everyone should follow the localize, but seriously, this game got too much changed by NISA that it almost become the same game with "different story", If the creator say "C" the translator must say "C" or something close like "Z" not "A" or "B" (The little is don't mind but NISA did that for this whole game.), Hymmnos is "very important" the creator of the game also say that. The language is not a gibberish, It's can be translate just like learning other normal language (Japanese), And yes it's effect the story (I don't know about Hymmnos much either but there is person called aquagon who is very fluent at this), I mean it's a "depth" part of the game. If you study them I am sure you can understand what I am trying to say. The only reason that I put the Hymmnos change term is, If someone interest in AT world which is very wide, you can see it in AT fansite board and want to learn Hymmnos, they will find nothing here but a false information. Hope you understand this, and sorry for my English. Marioak (talk) 8:44, 25 August 2009 (UTC+8)

Listen -- I know. I understand. I don't like it either. However, you don't need to know those specific hymmnos terms to understand the game. You just don't. You don't need to know anything. I personally have chosen to look these things up and many of the hymns because I wanted to know - and I feel others who like the game will do the same. And not because there is something confusing. It provides insight to certain things (moreso the hymns themselves than the term changes), yes, but it's not necessary - which is more or less why I would call it "trivia" - even though it's closer to a list of miscellanea. Also, I don't feel NISA exactly told a different story - they just made a crapload of mistakes that gives you a different take on various things - for instance, I felt that Cloche should've been more formal in several instances. And yes, I know that some mistakes have changed a few things completely - Cloche didn't kill Croix's parents in Japan. But the hymmnos term changes don't exactly change anything - except an Engrish look to an English look (including Truelywaath suddenly being Trulyworth - it certainly does cut off a meaning, and I dislike it, but I don't abhor it). Infel Phira may be the true name, but it's not like we can't tell that Infel Pira has to do with seeds and love if we know hymmnos well enough to see the mistake.

With all that said, these silly term changes aren't "very important". Hymmnos is, but not on the surface. Do you see the difference? Look up the hymns and you will have a whole new insight to the songs and the game in general. Look up the terms and you just rage at NISA. And what I meant by "not as important as devout fans believe" is that it's not really important for it to be here (mentioning it is alright, but listing many changes...? I don't think so, anyway). And for the record, I'm a member of ARM. Lunatic Drache's the name there, but I'm Drache on the AT wikia. Craven Lunatic (talk) 04:52, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually if you know Hymnos it will make you see the different view of the game (especially NISA version). But since you are from ARM (Just as I expect, I heard your name somewhere before!) I am sure that aquagon agree with you, So okay go ahead delete that section. I just don't like to give the someone the "fake" story (Create by NISA) that all. Marioak (talk) 5:50, 26 August 2009 (UTC+8)

If it was just you, I'd have just wandered over to your talk page - but I think it's more than one person bringing it back. I could try deleting it, but I'll wait to see if anyone else responds :) Craven Lunatic (talk) 06:01, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks XD, But I don't think not many people come here anymore since the game is getting old. that sad..Marioak (talk) 9:13, 30 August 2009 (UTC+7)

Glitch section

In the bug section there *was* a long paragraph that was written from the perspective of someone's opinion, while many people might agree with it, it is still an opinion and doesn't belong on wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.21.235.5 (talk) 12:23, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

One more refs

http://bb.fwinc.co.jp/at2/
--KrebMarkt 11:52, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 9 July 2016

Ar Tonelico II: Melody of Metafalica → Ar Tonelico II – Per WP:SUBTITLE. There is no other game called "Ar Tonelico II". 2A02:C7D:564B:D300:3C1A:53BD:793E:CDDC (talk) 11:36, 9 July 2016 (UTC)