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August 12

S.C. Networks, Inc. d/b/a www.fubo.tv and David Gandler CEO

Attempting to find information about S.C. Networks, Inc. (d/b/a www.fubo.tv). The Cofounder and CEO is Mr. David Gandler. The Wikipedia page for S.C. Networks, Inc and/or Fubo TV doesn't exist. I'm asking if anyone has sufficient knowledge of S.C. Networks, Inc. (a.k.a. Fubo TV) that can create an informational page of S.C. Networks, Inc.? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.76.251.73 (talk) 13:36, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's plenty of info on Google, and it looks like the S.C. could stand for "Spam Central". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:18, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 14

Pokemon question

use razz berry or great ball will make pokemon less likely to break free and run away? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.66.14.213 (talk) 13:31, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are two separate fan Wikis that may answer this for you. http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_GO is the Pokemon Go entry at the main Pokemon Wiki, and http://pokemongo.wikia.com/wiki/Pokemon_Go_Wiki is a Wiki dedicated to the Pokemon Go game. One of those may be able to help you. --Jayron 32 23:30, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 15

Deewana 1992 film

Since Deewana was the 1st film for Sharukhan & Rishi Kapoor to be in Collaboration, are there any Other Films for Collaborations between Sharukhan & Rishi Kapoor?(76.20.88.33 (talk) 16:41, 15 August 2016 (UTC)).[reply]

Rishi had a cameo in SRK's movie Jab Tak Hai Jaan. I can't promise it's the only case besides Deewana but I have the feeling it is. If it's important to you just check the filmographies of those two actors on WP. You've got everything you need here to answer your own question. Contact Basemetal here 18:21, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

2016 Olympics, gentlemen's basketball

Brazil having beaten Nigeria, what happens if Argentina beat Spain and Croatia lose to Lithuania? (I can't find definite answers, no word on it from the broadcaster either). Splićanin (talk) 21:49, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Basketball at the 2016 Summer Olympics should have this info. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:00, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Three different sites (FIBA, wiki, and flashscore) rank teams 4, 5, 6 in three different ways. What happens if three teams (Spain, Croatia, Brazil) end up on 7 points? Splićanin (talk) 22:11, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article states that "the tie-breaking procedures begin with points, then head-to-head results, point differential, and then points scored." Clarityfiend (talk) 00:18, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify here, the word "points" is being used in two different ways. The first is "win-loss" points; with 2 points awarded for a win and 1 for a loss. "Point differential" and "points scored" uses the actual basket points; thus if the USA beat Australia 107-95 (for example) their "point differential" is +12 and their "points scored" is 107. Australia's "point differential" is -12 and their "points scored" is 95. --Jayron 32 10:48, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As an aside here, the "win-loss points" awarded are entirely redundant in sports that don't allow a "draw" or a "tie". Since there are only two possible results, one could just rank teams by "wins" and get the same rank order. I suspect FIBA's use of game points is because of their familiarity in sports like association football and hockey where tied scores are common; in those sports you can alter rankings by awarding varying points for wins, losses, ties, and reaching various milestones (such as shoot-outs and the like). In those sports, it's possible to have less wins than another team, and still beat them in the standings by virtue of having more game points. In basketball, that's not possible, because the only meaningful way to get points is by winning the game "2-for-a-win" and "1-for-a-loss" is functionally equivalent to "1-for-a-win" and "0-for-a-loss"; which is just W-L record. --Jayron 32 10:52, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Some sports can deduct points from a team for violations. See e.g. 2006 Italian football scandal or Serbia v Albania (UEFA Euro 2016 qualifying). I don't follow basketball and was surprised by this in Basketball at the 2016 Summer Olympics#Group stage: "Two points are awarded for a victory, one for a loss." Surely you are in a better position if you still have a chance to win a match than if you have already lost. I found this in Group tournament ranking system#Points calculation:

In FIBA (basketball)-sanctioned tournaments, where ties are impossible (a game goes into as many extra periods — or overtimes — as necessary to determine a winner), the following method is used:

Win (including by forfeit) = 2 points
Loss = 1 point
Loss by default (all players were ejected/disqualified/injured) = 1 point
Loss by forfeit (fails to show up for a scheduled game or withdraws from the court before the end of the game) = 0 points^[1]

I guess 0 points are rarely used. It's confusing to me that Brazil is ranked second in [1]. It seems to me that 1 point for a win, 0 for a loss and -1 for a forfeit would give more logical standings during a tournament when teams have played a different number of matches. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:00, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Official Basketball Rules 2012 pp. 24–25

August 16

Crossing the finish line

Athletics at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Women's 400 metres just finished. As they approached the end, the leader was challenged by a second runner, so the leader dove for the end instead of running across like normal, and she was judged the winner. This prompted a question: in international athletics events, when is a runner judged to have crossed the finish line? Does any body part count (cross with one finger, and you've crossed), or does a greater portion of the body need to cross? Nyttend (talk) 02:16, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As per IAAF rules, it's any part of the torso that has to cross. In most cases this would be the chest or scapula. The guidance goes so far as to indicate seperate parts of a persons anatomy that count. See IAAF Photo Finish Guidelines at [2] Nanonic (talk) 02:32, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, amazingly detailed resource. Thanks! Nyttend (talk) 02:41, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

They also mentioned that fact at some point after the race. In old films and photos of races, when they used a tape across the finish line to determine the winner, the runners stayed upright with their hands back so that their torso would hit the tape first.This, for example. With laser-based sensing devices and the like, they don't have to do that anymore. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:02, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, there is nothing to indicate she dived to beat the challenger. It looked like she just overbalanced and stumbled as she reached forwards for the line. I believe she would've won if she had not fallen. I just wanted to add this, because the phrasing above makes it sound like a deliberate tactic.86.20.193.222 (talk) 10:12, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Anatomy of a Dive Across the Finish Line^NYT: But there was no gold medal thievery at work here; no moral slippage. Miller’s diving finish would have been completely within the rules even if it had been intentional, which she and her coach, Lance Brauman, both insisted it was not. “She gave everything she had, and her legs gave out at the line,” Brauman told reporters after the race. “It was not intentional.” -- ToE 14:45, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, and I'm absolutely sure it wasn't deliberate. It's pretty obvious that just falling like that isn't gonna help at all. There's been lots of discussion of it - some people (on Reddit) showed a video of a baseball player running and comparing a "dive" to keeping going, but baseball is very different.

There's absolutely no way she gained any advantage.

Unfortunately, some idiots have been editing her Wikipedia bio article, and e.g. changing 'runner' to 'swimmer' and putting stuff about 'diving' all day. 86.20.193.222 (talk) 16:22, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Silver/Bronze medallist breaking previous records ?

Are there instances of a competitor in Olympic games breaking the previous Olympic/World records but not getting the gold medal because someone else broke the record with a higher margin to claim gold ? - WikiCheng | Talk 06:18, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I'm sure I heard that it's happened this year. I shall now go and research that and come back to you. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:39, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's very difficult to research from scratch because the official site is erratic to say the least. It doesn't give proper names for a start ("Pendleton Pendleton" apparently broke a record sometime). So good luck with this... --TammyMoet (talk) 08:53, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

It's reasonably common.

For example, in the cycling men's sprint a few days ago - in the qualification round, Callum Skinner got a new Olympic record of 9.703s, and later, his teammate Jason Kenny got 9.551s.

Or in the weightlifting, Men's 56kg - Om Yun-Chol lifted a new Olympic record of 303 kg, and went on to get silver, when Long Qingquan lifted a world-record 307kg to get gold.

These are examples only; I'm sure it's happened more times in the last few days, and will happen again in the next few.

86.20.193.222 (talk) 08:50, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks ! Another related question: Are the timings achieved in the heats considered for records ? Let us says an athlete runs (200 m sprint, for example) in record time in the heats. But he may not even win a bronze if for some reason he runs slower in the finals. If the winners don't break the record he set in the heats, will the record be in his name ? - WikiCheng | Talk 09:07, 16 August 2016 (UTC) (edit conflict)[reply]

P.S. I just realised something interesting; in the Rio Women's team pursuit cycling, there was no Olympic record, because the distance had changed. So in qualifications, lots of teams set new Olympic records - Poland (4:28.988), then Italy (4:25.543), New Zealand (4:20.061), and Australia (4:19.059) - all before GB got started, and broke the OR in every round, to get gold medal. (USA got silver, Canada Bronze). So, that's 16 athletes who held an OR for a few minutes... 86.20.193.222 (talk) 09:14, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Re 'related question' - yes, ORs can be set in heats/qualification rounds. I'm sure some athletes have set them and then not medalled, but I don't know any examples without complicated searching. Maybe someone got disqualified in a final, or was injured, or something?

I know that 4 days ago, Alice Aprot Nawowuna ran under the previous OR in the Women's 10,000m but only came 4th - but that record didn't count, because of course the winners set new records before she did. Just, rather unlucky for her, to break a record and not win a medal. Also, someone really needs to update her Wikipedia bio— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.193.222 (talk) 09:35, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking about your question further, I realised that World Records are often set at other events. So... I remembered the example of Paula Radcliffe, the current women's world-record holder for the Marathon, but she has no Olympic medals. 86.20.193.222 (talk) 09:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The marathon, in particular, is unlikely to see a world record set at the olympics. This article at FiveThirtyEight notes that the optimal temperature for marathon is about 43 °F (6 °C) - I don't believe a summer olympics has ever been held where those kinds of temperatures could be expected, and they've often been much hotter. Even in places cooler than Rio and Athens, fast marathons (like London and Berlin) aren't held in the heat of August (London in April, Berlin in late September). FiveThirtyEight jokes that to get a world record in the marathon in the olympics, they'd have to move the marathon to the winter games. Looking at this article about the climate for Sochi, had the marathon been in the 2014 Winter Olympics (at the end of February) they'd have been right in the sweet spot. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 13:50, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

One of the swimmers in a relay medley set a world record as an individual. [3] Because he was the lead-off swimmer, his leg counted as a normal 100m backstroke race. Rmhermen (talk) 15:15, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Shooting at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Men's 25 metre rapid fire pistol has an example; Alexei Klimov broke his own world record in the qualification round, but could only manage fourth in the final. Warofdreams talk 16:36, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why did the Soviet Union skip pre-WW2 Olympics?

Dear All,

The excellent Wikipedia pages on each country's history at the games includes one on the Soviet Union at the Olympics. It reveals that the Soviet Union first entered the Olympics in 1952, at Helsinki. But the USSR was formally founded in 1922, so existed for numerous Olympic Games before entering (1936, 32, 28, 24). Why didn't they enter?

Many thanks. 185.12.194.57 (talk) 12:24, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the opening summary on the Soviet article, it states that "The Olympic Committee of the USSR was formed on April 21, 1951, and was recognized by the IOC on its 45th session (May 7, 1951)." So in other words, they weren't recognized by the IOC to compete before 1952. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 13:05, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

But the IOC recognised them almost immediately after they formed a committee, suggesting that they chose not to before or that they had reason to believe the IOC wouldn't recognise them before. I'd be interested if anyone knows which is the case, and the reasons behind either decision. 185.12.192.57 (talk) 13:07, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a blog article about the issue. Basically, they weren't interested. --Wrongfilter (talk) 13:11, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if the political leadership changes which were going on during the early 1950s had anything to do with why they had a change of plans. Stalin was in poor health from 1950 on or so, and actual policy decisions fell increasingly on others, and I wonder if that had anything to do with the Soviet Unions opinion on the Olympics. It should also be noted that there were no Olympics in 1940 or 1944, and the Soviet Union was not very stable during the pre-war years. Just some speculation on avenues to research here. --Jayron 32 13:46, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe related to the original question I have another question: When did the Soviet Union start having competitive sport to begin with (e.g. a Soviet Union-wide soccer championship, track and field championship, swimming championship, etc., as opposed to mass sport, in schools, factories, collective farms, the armed forces, etc.) which would seem a prerequisite for the existence of elite athletes which would itself be a prerequisite for participation in the Games. Can anyone even think of the name of an early Soviet champion in whatever sport prior to about 1950? Who knows, maybe it was just not part of early communist ideology to stress competitive sport as opposed to mass sport and it took them some time to realize the propaganda benefits of taking part in international sport. Contact Basemetal here 14:06, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The paper linked to in the blog article mentioned above (presumably peer-reviewed and certainly more useful than the discussion below) mentions Georgy and Seraphim Znamensky. --Wrongfilter (talk) 18:40, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Stalin was engaged in widespread genocide during the pre-WW2 years, and massacres during WW2, and participation in the Olympics would have been a natural place for those groups who were the target of this genocide to protest and get press coverage. So, it would have generated negative worldwide propaganda, not positive. StuRat (talk) 14:33, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Off-topic Tevildo (talk) 19:53, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

StuRat, given the current discussion, I'm surprised you continue to treat the ref desk as a "here's a thought that's just occurred to me about any topic that comes up" page, rather than a place to give referenced answers to factual questions, as it's meant to be. --Viennese Waltz 15:09, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

My answer is better than Jayron's "I wonder if..." answer above. If you doubt that Stalin engaged in genocide or massacres, I can provide all the links you need. StuRat (talk) 15:16, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's not what I'm asking for and you know it. I'm asking for sources showing that the reason the Soviet Union didn't take part in the Olympics before 1952 was a fear of bad publicity. I'm not holding my breath, put it that way. --Viennese Waltz 15:22, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You expect that Stalin published his real reasons (as opposed to the "party line" of not taking part in decadent capitalist games) ? And what's your excuse for attacking me, but not Jayron ? Just a "jump on the bandwagon" thing ? StuRat (talk) 15:27, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How do you know what his real reasons were? --Viennese Waltz 15:31, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't claim I did. I offered a possibility, as did Jayron. You attack me, and leave him in peace. As for that "discussion", it's a baseless complaint, as the 9 opposes vs 2 supports shows. StuRat (talk) 15:33, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

VW has offered nothing to the OP. His comments should be hatted. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:35, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You need to stop attacking users in front of the original poster. Take your complaint to the user's talk page or keep your trap shut. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:29, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And that's why Nazi Germany didn't take part of or hosted the games; or did they?--TMCk (talk) 14:42, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

1936 was well before the Holocaust got into full swing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:56, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, according to the Final Solution "This policy of deliberate and systematic genocide across German-occupied Europe was formulated in procedural terms by Nazi leadership on 20 January 1942...". Also note that the 1936 Summer Olympic Games were held in Berlin, where the Nazis worked hard, along with friends in the IOC, to prevent any protests. There was a remarkable similarity to the 2014 Winter Olympic Games, where Putin put off his invasion of the Ukraine until after the games had ended, to get positive publicity. StuRat (talk) 15:25, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I see. So Germany was a big happy family of "Aryans" and Jews until 1942, I guess--TMCk (talk) 15:39, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, but they hadn't started the mass murdering yet. And truth to tell, no one much cared abou the plight of the Jews. Read MS St. Louis for insight. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:41, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So the threat of boycott was only based on blacks not allowed? History is getting stranger by the minute.--TMCk (talk) 16:06, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

THE MOVEMENT TO BOYCOTT THE BERLIN OLYMPICS OF 1936. Alansplodge (talk) 18:42, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To the OP: this will not directly answer your question but it may give you some idea as to how sport was organized in the SU from about 1935: Voluntary Sports Societies of the Soviet Union. WP does not have a general article on "Sport in the Soviet Union". Some, er, "contributor" made it a redirect to the article "Sport in Russia" which has absolutely nothing on the Soviet Union. Contact Basemetal here 15:54, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sport in the USSR: Physical Culture--Visual Culture by Mike O'Mahony (pp. 18-20) gives an overview of the ideological concept of fizkultura, the idealised portrayal of physical fitness in manual labour, sport and military service which developed during the 1920s and 1930s but only looked beyond its borders to other revolutionary regimes. Victory in the Second World War, the author contends, gave the USSR a new sense of its position in the world, and entry into the Olympics was seen as a non-military way of promoting Communist ideology.

Globalizing Sport: National Rivalry and International Community in the 1930s by Barbara J. Keys says (p. 159): "In the 1920s, the Soviet Union opted out of the Western system of international sport, condemning it as inherently capitalist and exploitative. Instead. the Soviet Union attempted to build an alternative system of international sport based on a distinctly 'proletarian' brand of sport and physical culture which eschewed individualism and record-seeking". It goes on to say that the USSR began to come round to the idea of international integration in the 1930s, starting with football (soccer), despite having banned schools from organising football competitions in 1926. Alansplodge (talk) 18:35, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, Rome wasn't built in a day. It takes time to make doping practically undetectable, so cut 'em some slack. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:54, 16 August 2016 (UTC) [reply]

I have added a brief note to the "Soviet Union at the Olympics" article, using the refs quoted above. Alansplodge (talk) 17:44, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 17

name these instruments

In this cover of the Grateful Dead's "Ripple", can you tell me what specific instruments are played by

(0:11) Roberto Luti – a guitar with some odd features, maybe akin to a Dobro?
(0:57) Elyasaf Bashari – a large lute
(1:56) Luciano Diamiani – a small lute
(2:11) Anala Abdel Halik – a large drum
(2:18) Mohammed Alidu – a small drum, apparently tuned by squeezing
(3:04) David Herrero – a middle-sized lute

? (Please don't bite me if I use the word 'lute' too loosely.) —Tamfang (talk) 06:33, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The first one is a resonator guitar. The second one is an oud. --Viennese Waltz 07:36, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And specifically Luti's guitar is a "metal bodied vintage National guitar" - I think it's a National duolian. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 00:14, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Although in this interview he says his father had a Duolian, and he has a 1931 National Triolian. I won't pretend I can tell the difference between the two. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 00:26, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And now I know why the Mississippi Delta shines like a National guitar. —Tamfang (talk) 04:17, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Damiani's "small lute" is a mandolin. Herrero's "middle-sized lute" is a saz or bağlama. I'll try the drums a bit later if no one else has yet by then. Contact Basemetal here 10:29, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, for Herrero here is a picture of him playing the same instrument, which describes it explicitly as a bağlama (the "Ripple" project's website just generically calls it a "lute"). In this video (from the same trip to Turkey) shows Herrero playing with "baglama master Aytaç Karausta" (perhaps when Herrero bought the baglama). It's not something you'd typically find in the music room of the average Dominican-Floridian bluesman, after all. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 23:57, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anala Abdel Halik's drum is either a Conga or a Makuta. Mohammed Alidu's drum is a talking drum. --Jayron 32 10:35, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks all! —Tamfang (talk) 04:17, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 19

Is there a minimum age (or a maximum age) for the Olympics?

Is there a minimum age (or a maximum age) for the Olympics? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:11, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The IOC does not directly manage the Olympic events nor qualify competitors. Instead, governing bodies for each sport do so; so there is no universal answer for all of the Olympics. For example FIBA manages the Olympic Basketball tournaments while the International Federation of Gymnastics (FIG or IFG) manages the gymnastics events. Some sports, such as gymnastics, do have an age minimum, as noted at Age requirements in gymnastics to be 16 for top-level events such as the Olympics. Not all sports have such requirements, This article notes the youngest Rio Olympian to be 13 years old, a competitor in swimming. That article discusses age minimums for various sports. --Jayron 32 03:19, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The men's Olympic football tournament is for under-23 players (with teams allowed three exceptions). (Details here.) And in the world of football, it is not a very important tournament. Hayttom (talk) 12:36, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Gymnast Dimitrios Loundras was only 10 years old when he won a team bronze in 1896. An unnamed French boy aged "about 7" coxed for a Dutch pairs crew in the 1900 games, but doesn't seem to have been given a medal - see Oldest and Youngest Olympians (Summer Games). More recently, British diver Tom Daley competed in the 2008 games at the age of 14. Alansplodge (talk) 17:03, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tied gold medals

So, Team GB won a gold and a silver when the Alistair Brownlee and Jonny Brownlee took the top two places in the triathlon. The former waited (as he often does) for the latter before crossing the finishing line. Now, "match-rigging" aside, and per the German twins who cross the line together, if Jonny and Alistair crossed the line together, would Team GB have been awarded two golds rather than one gold and one silver, and would a tied gold between two members of the same NOC count as two golds overall? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the ITU rules [4], it appears that if they could not determine which one had any part of their torso cross the line first, then they would both be awarded first place. Warofdreams talk 20:45, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So an additional gold in the medal table was a possibility (ignoring the match-rigging inevitability)? Just in case Team GB wanted to guarantee second place ahead of China... The Rambling Man (talk) 20:51, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tied or not, China should still only get the bronze. For comparison, in the men's 100m butterfly, three guys tied for second place, all getting silver, so there was no bronze awarded. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:11, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that the medal table sorts initially by golds, then silvers then bronzes. So to have one gold is better than to have eighty silvers, one silver better than eighty bronzes etc. So all I'm suggesting is that if the Brownlees had collaborated, Team GB would one gold further up the table (or one gold further ahead of China). The Rambling Man (talk) 22:13, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If they had tied for first, sure. That would make sense. In pool swimming there are electronic timers which determine the finishing order. I don't know if electronic timers are used in running races, although the results on some of the track races seem to be using photos. Given that, it might be hard to cross the finish at the exact same moment. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:31, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: I am unfamiliar with these people. What do you mean when you say: "The former waited (as he often does) for the latter before crossing the finishing line." ... ? What's that all about? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:22, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Joseph A. Spadaro: Your user page claims that you're a member of Mensa and a lawyer. This question, among many others that I've seen on the RefDesk, belie these assertions. —Nelson Ricardo (talk) 04:35, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You think that Alistair Brownlee and Jonny Brownlee are household names? I assure you they are not. I have never heard of them until just now. And that fact has nothing to do with lawyering and/or Mensa. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 07:02, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nor I, but their articles tell who they are, and TRM's comment I would call a little bit of "inside dope" on their style, likely based on personal observation. The triathlon typically involves swimming, cycling and running, in that order. So the two brothers apparently led the foot race and crossed the finish line nearly together, which according to TRM is standard practice for them when the situation arises. How they decide who gets to finish first, I dunno. Maybe they tried to tie but it didn't work out. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:42, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, they definitely didn't try to tie, but I was just interested because this is one of the few occasions in the Olympics were athletes from the same country held such a lead and were actually able to cross the line together, should they have decided to do so. It would have resulted in two golds for Team GB rather than a gold and silver, which would have improved their chances of finishing ahead of China in the overall standings. As for the Brownlees not being household names, if one is in that position that then perhaps one should not attempt to answer questions at the ref desk on such topics. After all, Alistair is only a double Olympic gold medallist and world champion... The Rambling Man (talk) 09:10, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your question was clear enough, so I don't know why someone would be confused about it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:38, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe this isn't quite what you asked, but the Women's Triathlon at London 2012 gives a practical example of what would happen. The first two finishers crossed the line at the same time (to within 0.1 seconds) only millimetres apart, but a photo finish was able to determine the gold and silver placings. I would suggest that, for all practical purposes, it would be impossible for two people to coordinate to the extent that they both cross the line EXACTLY in sync, and for the officials to be unable to separate them even by photo finish. Therefore, in triathlon at least, you will always find a gold and silver medalist, so the question is moot. Note that other sports may have a scoring setup that makes joint golds more plausible. I just can't think of one right now. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:04, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is a moderately interesting article about ties in the history of the Winter Games, FWIW. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:13, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As I noted earlier, in one of the swimming races there was a three-way tie for second place, so three silver medals were awarded. Ties are possible in swimming because of the mechanism they use to measure the swimmer's time in each lane. As I recall, there were a few ties in some of the prelims as well. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:40, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And in fact within the last few minutes there was the medal ceremony for the Kayak Single (K1) 200m Men which finished with a dead-heat for bronze between Spain and Germany. Both athletes took to the podium. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 12:45, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 20

James Brown Is Dead

At the end of this article there's the header Chart positions that mentions the L.A. Style version and the Holy Noise version. This is nonsense because they produced 2 different songs, not 2 versions of the same song! I have limited access to the internet so could somebody else help me out on this? The chart positions of the song James Brown is still alive (by Holy Noise) are pretty irrelevant in this article I guess. OXYGENE 7-13 (TALKPAGE) 10:48, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Official Basketball Rules 2012 pp. 24–25

[1]