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The result was merge to Jersey Youth Reform Team. Petros471 20:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Luke Small

This biographical article appears to fail WP:BIO because while there is one newsworthy event to be covered, there is not a second. There are 84 unique search engine hits for the subject's name and "Jersey". In addition, this is a potential vanity article based on username of the creator and was deprodded without alteration. Erechtheus 00:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Merge into Gay rights in Britain. A notable event but a non-notable person. --Wafulz 00:10, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge into Jersey Youth Reform Team, the organization which he is executive director of.--TBCTaLk?!? 01:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I would withdraw this nom subject to a merge and redirect, but I really can't at this point for two reasons: we need to determine where to redirect the title after merges and I wonder if there won't be even other places where information from this article should go. Erechtheus 01:33, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The article is unbearably vague about what this fellow actually did. The European Court agreed to hear his case (about what? the article says nothing) but the case was settled before the Court could hear it. Then we learn he continued to work for "reform" and "the rights of young people" (what does that even mean?) in his home area. What establishes notability from that sequence of facts? All unsourced. Allon Fambrizzi 05:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)Allon Fambrizzi[reply]
    • Comment. The search engine results above will convince you that there is verifiable subject matter that is in need of documentation in at least the two articles mentioned above. I agree that this article is terribly written as is, though. This is where the old AfD dilemma comes in about whether this should be about what has been written in the article or what is readily available. I personally think neither of those options is always the right answer. In this case, I do think looking at what is available by Internet search makes sense. Erechtheus 06:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge since with 49 unique Googles I'd say that his independent notability is questionable at best. Guy 11:44, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment and Keep: After looking at the article and the google hits the nominator provided I added some information, sources, ect. I'll see what else I can do when I get back this afternoon. This seems to be a notable person and event, there are verifiable sources, and while his main work so far seems to have to do with getting the law changed, he has founded an organization to promote youth rights and will probably eventually be mentioned for future works. I see no reason to delete. ~ ONUnicorn (Talk / Contribs) 17:03, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge, not notable enough on its own, but shouldn't be deleted.Ramsquire 19:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, per the Pokémon Test. -- ~PinkDeoxys~ 19:46, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm from Jersey. This young man did something most people wouldn't consider. The ages of consent were unequal - young people were too scared to voice the issue themselves, so he did.

He deserves this page as much as anyone else does. Luke, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.20.186.29 (talk • contribs)

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The result was move to H. L. Nage Gowda, nomination withdrawn. -- NORTH talk 08:26, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

H. N. Nage Gowda

Non-notable person, fails WP:BIO Speedy Keep and move as said below. Tarret 23:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Good one Antorjal. If he has won a state award, keep him. --Ageo020 18:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The Jnanpith is awarded to one person every year. India has one billion plus people and 20+ recognized official languages. I think the Jnanpith criteria is as harsher than asking every British writer to win a Booker. The Sahitya Akademi award is a state-level award. I confess I know nothing about this author or the literature in the language he's written in, but I do know about this award and the recipients in the Indian languages I speak, who are well published and notable to millions. A problem with notability is that transliterations schemes don't always allow for the best hits and India has an abysmal record of getting stuff from local languages up on the net (hence the difficulty in searching on Google). I would like to request native speakers to establish notability (if it is notable) citing references. --Antorjal 17:17, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or move to Janapada Loka The museum [2] founded by H. N. Nage Gowda is of encyclopedic quality. I don't know about his poetry but he's also listed as a poet under Vokkaliga, added in April by an anonymous editor. Mereda 12:58, 13 September 2006 (UTC) It looks like the subject is really H. L. Nage Gowra who's definitely notable [3], [4] (state award) and [5]. Mereda 13:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very strong Keep, and move to H.L. Nage Gowda. The article name is an obvious typo - the person who started the museum is H.L. Nage Gowda, not H.N. Nage Gowda. H.L. Nage Gowda has won the Sahitya Akademi Award (see this obituary, which is a pretty prestigious literary award for writing in Indian languages. That clearly takes him past the threshhold established by WP:BIO. -- Arvind 14:44, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • The total for H. L. Nagegowda and H. L. Nage Gowda comes to just under a couple of hundred hits on Google. The largest obit is by HI. SHI. RAMCHANDRE GOWDA - I am not familiar enough with Indian naming ocnventions to know if that would likely be a relative or an impartial biography. Any clues here? Is there an article on the native-language Wikipedia? Guy 15:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In Karnataka, "Gowda" is about as common as "Smith" in the UK, so I'd say the chance that he's a relative is pretty small. Incidentally, the newspaper in which that obituary was printed - The Hindu - has the same position in southern India that the New York Times does in the US, so an obit they print is unlikely to be mere hagiography. -- Arvind 16:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If anyone's still feeling doubtful about his notability, he earned the honour of a State funeral [6] Mereda 15:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have rewritten the article, which hopefully establishes notability. I'm not sure if it's appropriate to move it to the correct title until this discussion is done, so I've left it under "H.N. Nage Gowda". -- Arvind 16:19, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but change the N to an L -- though I understand there's a Hangul character component that can be equally validly transscribed as /n/ or /r/, so it may not be a typo (yes, I know Korean is an entirely separate language). In any case, if he's won an award that itself has an article, that's notable enough for me.–♥ «Charles A. L.» 15:43, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Sahitya Akademi Award has its own article too, though a pretty bad one. -- Arvind 16:19, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This would have been an open and shut case of delete for me because of the issues noted but the "Sahitya Akademi" which is India's rough equivalent of the Pulitzer sealed this one for me. However, I do stress that the burden of proof lies with the article creator/editors.--Antorjal 17:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Plus the fact that an author was nominated to hold office in a state legislature means he's respected in his own state and language. --Antorjal 17:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 23:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HGB College, Inc.

Non-notable and unverifyable. Tarret 00:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:50, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Webdip

Not notable software. Fails WP:SOFTWARE. Yes, two articles have been written on the subject but that work is not an independent source since SourceForge tells us that the two project admins for this software are neunm and schultem, most probably the authors of these articles. Google finds a lot of hits for webdip but in fact very few for "webdip + database" [8] or for "webdip + decision" [9]. No significant third party coverage. Pascal.Tesson 00:18, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. - Mailer Diablo 05:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Grand Cities Mall

Non-notable mall, fails WP:CORP TJ Spyke 00:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reluctant delete, subject to change if any user adds information that leads to the article passing WP:CORP. It was my hope to resolve that matter prior to an AfD, but the nominator chose to go ahead with this discussion, which is his right.Erechtheus 00:28, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep - There are a slew of other articles about what I'm assuming many would consider to be non-notable malls. Why is this one so much less notable than so many others who are allowed to have their own articles? This mall is notable because it was one of the first enclosed malls in this part of the country.--MatthewUND(talk) 02:51, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What's is a "part of the country?"–♥ «Charles A. L.» 16:46, 14 September 2006 (UTC) P.S. don't delete things from AFD pages[reply]
  • Keep - I feel that enclosed malls which are the first in their area are notable enough if only from a historic standpoint. Also agree with MatthewUND(talk) that there are other articles on malls, both enclosed and not, that haven't been targeted. (Not that I'm proposing we seek out mall articles for deletion.) MichaelCaricofe 03:05, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think it can be a real shame when a decent article gets deleted all in the name of "process". --MatthewUND(talk) 05:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is a fight between notability and Wikipedia is not paper. "This is a mall" (the article says more than that, but not much more) pushes me onto the NN side. The article might be editable to put me on the not-paper side, as Erechtheus said. As it is, however, it's primarily a directory. By "process is important" I meant only that there is a consensus (an evolving one, to be sure) on what is appropriate for Wikipedia, and I'm not going to buck it.–♥ «Charles A. L.» 13:33, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What a good point, Jcuk. Why is it just fine to have countless articles about ficticious cartoon characters, but it is so bad to have an article about a physical place with a real history and - at the very least - regional notability. --MatthewUND(talk) 23:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment actually I'd be more than happy to see all the pokecruft gone from Wikipedia, but realistically speaking, that will never happen. Still, just because Wikipedia has become a stomping ground for hundreds of articles about the minutiae of a childrens cartoon (curiously written by people who apparently are not in the target 10 year old market) doesn't justify adding any other sort of article. A better arguement for this existing in Wikipedia is to demonstrate the notability of this mall... as other are attempting to do.--Isotope23 03:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Moreschi 19:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • STRONG KEEP Sorry folks but the deletes have not done any leg work here, so shame on you, especially the Nom which I virtual shake a finger at for lack of their own research. The mall was built in 1964 and called 'South Forks Plaza'. It was Grand Forks', and North Dakota's first enclosed mall. How is that for notability? --Brian (How am I doing?) 19:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - according to WP:V the burden of evidence lies with the editors who have added (or wish to retain) unreferenced information, not those who wish the unreferenced information to be removed. Mako 23:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment, I was aware this was the first enclosed mall in North Dakota... and I'm still was not convinced of notability; any more than I'd find an article about the first Ikea to open in Michigan (which was a huge media event in the Detroit area) notable. As there is no accepted guideline for physical locations, all I can go on is personal judgement and to me "first enclosed mall in a state" doesn't cut it.--Isotope23 04:01, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • STRONG KEEP - This mall is as notable as any and Bschott above put it better than I can. Being the first mall in North Dakota certainly deserves recognition. Weatherman90 20:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • And so far the keeps have not provided any SOURCES that show why it's notable. This mall is not notable just because you say it is. Also, you are free to nominate other similiar non-notable malls as well since I cannot know about every article on every mall here. TJ Spyke 20:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, it's just a mall in a smaller town, and it's a tourist attraction in North Dakota, esp. the eastern half of the state. Grand Cities Mall (formerly South Forks Plaza) was there more than 10 years before the more known Columbia Mall.--grejlen - talk 21:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • It might be lesser known to some people who aren't from around here, but it's well known in North Dakota and western Minnesota.--grejlen - talk 21:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • After more research at the library, I found technically the "Park Plaza Shopping Center" in Jamestown, opened a week before "South Forks Plaza" was the first enclosed mall in North Dakota, though the South Forks was finished first. (Courtesy of the "The Source: 2005 Edition", published by the Jamestown Sun) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bschott (talk • contribs)
  • Delete Malls are businesses, in the business of renting space to retail stores. That means WP:CORP is the applicable standard. The article, and this AFD to date, contains no evidence (and not even an assertion) that the mall meets the standards set by WP:CORP. And yes, I assume that there are swarms of other mall articles out there that deserve deletion. When/if I encounter one in my editing, I'll nominate it, but I don't go out of my way to look for articles to nominate. GRBerry 01:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. No, that doesn't make WP:CORP apply, because the article is not about that business of renting out the space in the mall. Rather it is about the presence and impance on a community; it is more along the lines of the proposed Wikipedia:Places of local interest. Gene Nygaard 03:49, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • People who are voting keep, you need to provide a source that shows why this articles to be kept. No sources have been provided saying why this mall is notable at all. Also, Wikipedia:Places of local interest is only a proposed policy(meaning it isn't official policy yet). TJ Spyke 03:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You poisoned the well by bringing up WP:CORP. Museums and theaters and football stadiums are businesses too, but it isn't the business implications that are most important to the articles. Neither they nor malls should be considered on the basis of notabilities as businesses, per se. Gene Nygaard 16:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • TJ, I don't know how much clearer it could be. Head down to the local library, see if they will order "The Source: 2005 Edition" published by the Jamestown Sun. Books are allowed as sources per Wikipedia policy if I recall, unless that changed overnight and someone forgot to forward the memo to me. --Brian (How am I doing?) 04:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • How does being the second enclosed mall in South Dakota make it notable though? TJ Spyke 05:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I had no idea Grand Forks was in South Dakota. Only lived in North Dakota most of my life and thought GF was in North Dakota. Guess I learn something new each day from people who can't even take the time to get the facts straight. It was the first built/completed but second opened (by six days) in North Dakota. It also has been the longest open as "The Park" was closed for a few years then reopened back in the 1980's, and although it had damage because of The Flood of 1997 it was re-modeled and one of the very first businesses reopened after the flood. I'm quite sure a search of the local paper, the GFH would bring up these facts, though they don't have a searchable Archive online. Guess I'll head down to the local library and do a bit of research. --Brian (How am I doing?) 05:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Has references, fine, but malls are not inherently notable and the article makes no claim to notability. Doesn't pass the WP:CORP test. Fernando Rizo 18:45, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP This is an important historical building in Grand Forks, North Dakota! --RicKAbbo 20:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: "the first enclosed shopping mall built in North Dakota" seems notable enough to me, though perhaps it's marginal. Jonathunder 20:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Edgecution 20:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom is NOT a valid reason. This is not a vote, rather discussion based on research whether or not the article should stay. Delete per nom means nothing. --Brian (How am I doing?) 22:05, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? I agree with the reaon it's nominated. It's a non-notable mall(although very few malls are notable) and I haven't seen a valid reason for why the article should not be deleted. Edgecution 22:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep -- I think that many of the "delete" votes come from people who live in places where shopping malls grow like weeds, and thus cannot conceive of why any individual mall would ever be notable. I sympathize, but also recognize that the notability of something depends not just on what it is, but also on where it is. In the case of North Dakota, a large enclosed mall is undoubtably notable, even if it wouldn't be in, say, Phoenix or Los Angeles. Skybum 00:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't have said it better myself. --MatthewUND(talk) 06:39, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm not ready to change my vote yet (and I think this will be no consensus anyway) but this is finally the first really interesting reason to keep and I'd like to see it expanded upon. Are malls really so rare in the State of North Dakota that the first mall is notable? I have to admit, where I live, in 1 hour's time I could get to 10-12 malls easily. A mall simply is no big deal.--Isotope23 12:44, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Isotope, I guess I should explain. Enclosed malls are not abundent up in North Dakota cities as a whole. Fargo, the biggest city in North Dakota has one...West Acers. Grand Forks, has two (columbia and grand cities), Jamestown has one, and there is one in Bismark, the state capital. Something else to point out is that theses cities are hours apart, making enclosed shopping malls nearly a novelty. Grand Forks and Fargo are 45-50 minutes apart via the interstate highway 29 (which is 75MPH and little traffic). Jamestown - Fargo is +2 Hours and Bismark-Fargo is 4-5 Hours, hence the reason the editors from North Dakota are so against this delete. It's the longest running enclosed mall in a state with so few of them around. I can understand if LA, NYC, Miami, DFW, or KC has 10-40 (or more) enclosed malls within the city (or suburbs) making someone from that area believe enclosed malls are not notable, but from an area where the next closest enclosed mall is a +2 hour drive...the mall would be notable. This mall is notable for the community because it is a 'big deal' for the city. It was the Focal point of the city's shopping economy for decades, and still has drawing power. In a state with a total population of 642,200 people I hope you can see the context, when a city such as LA has a total population of 4,097,340! , --Brian (How am I doing?) 15:48, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I don't think I can approve of where this sort of reasoning takes us. I have family members who live in rural West Virginia. Up until they got a Wal-Mart last year, they had no shopping of that nature within around an hour of where they lived. Does that mean that the Welch Wal-Mart should have an article because it's a "big deal" to the few people who live in the northern part of McDowell and the southern part of Wyoming counties? I don't think so. Erechtheus 19:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment I don't think you can compare a Wal-Mart store to an entire mall. A Wal-Mart, no matter what kind of an impact it has on a local community, is just one store. On the other hand, a mall is more than just a store. In ways, it is almost like an entire neighborhood. The Grand Cities Mall had a major impact on the city of Grand Forks. When it opened, it started the decline of once-bustling downtown Grand Forks. In ways, the mall was a "new downtown". People had never seen anything like it. It seemed huge back then and its opening forever changed the business climate and the landscape of the community. In North Dakota, the opening of a mall is not a regular news item. The opening of this mall was especially noteworthy since it was basically the first mall that anyone had ever seen in this area. --MatthewUND(talk) 00:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Ogdred. Markovich292 06:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, verifiability over notability. --Myles Long 15:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per MatthewUND. Strip malls would generally not be notable, but major shopping malls should be; perhaps we need better CORP guidelines or a seperate WP:MALL guideline to handle this. Yamaguchi先生 23:28, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. - Mailer Diablo 05:30, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of songs by Keane

"Every song on album by Keane. Listcruft." Ogdred 00:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong Keep This is not covered by other articles, we do have a lot of this lists and I did create those MIDI samples. Therefore, I'm uploading a better version of Snowed Under right now. I added the information of the "rare material"--Fluence 23:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 23:53, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rare songs by Keane

Another list of songs by Keane. Ogdred 00:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keane's controversies

Random facts about Keane. Listcruft, and a possible copyvio -- the infor is taken from an FAQ site, according to the article. Ogdred 00:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment for TBC. I personally asked for permission to Chris Flynn for using the information from his website. He did want credits for. And a copyright tag is located at the bottom of the article.--Fluence 23:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If you find the way to merge it into Keane and it's not deleted, I won't fight keeping this article. And believe me. I cannot lose--Fluence 23:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 23:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Zesix

Unnotable network. I was at first fooled by Google's 44 000 hits but on closer inspection it's 49 unique non-wikipedia hits! [11] No sign of third party coverage. Unquestionnably fails WP:WEB. Pascal.Tesson 00:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to state that that "49 unique non-wikipedia hits" is incorrect. You are grossly misreading Google results. Do a search for the word cat. By your logic there are fewer than 900 "unique hits" for that word. Common sense tells you that is nonsense. Quatloo 04:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
When the number is this small it is less likely to be misleading in that way. My benchmark is that if you get more than about 200 unique, and thousands total, the unique count is probably worthless. I could, of course, be way off there. Guy 12:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There have been frequent reports in the past that the unique hits are only filtered from the first 1,000, so when the total's much higher, they're not valid. They may be of value to provide a ratio, as in this case, 95% of hits are dups of the first 5%. (Per below, by refining the search, the relevant total came much lower. It appeared from experimenting that 7,000+ were foreign uses of zesix as a word, and 36,000+ were from their own domains, leaving not much.) Fan-1967 19:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment nice job of picking that up. You'd think that maybe people would use a slightly more subtle user name when spamming. Pascal.Tesson 13:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. - Mailer Diablo 05:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

B. H. Carroll Theological Institute

Unaccredited, unnotable "institute" started in 2003[12] Article asserts no notablity. A search of "Carroll Theological Institute" at yahoo brings 337 yahoo hits with 2 wikipedia articles in the first ten hits. Fails WP:CORP. Arbusto 01:32, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Over 1100 google hits excluding wikipedia/mirrors. Ironically, the article you link to provides strong support for claims of notability, as it places the founding of the school within the historical context of struggles within the Baptist leadership of Texas. The information that the school is not accredited would be extremely useful to people considering enrolling. Allon FambrizziAllon Fambrizzi
I get 1,020 for "Carroll Theological Institute" at google including the wiki article and mirrors as the second thur fifth hits. How is it notable? Because the "Associated Baptist Press" (not to be confused with Associated Press) wrote an article? What's the ABP circulation? Arbusto 04:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - I get 1,260 general hits with the WP mirrors, and those boil down to only 216 distinct Ghits. The article makes no attempt to show notability, and without sources appears to be original research. The article makes no statements about any struggles for Baptist leadership, nor historical context. I do note the "Associated Baptist Press" claims in their ad rates they have 80,000 paid subscribers with an estimated readership of 200,000. Fine, but WP:CORP (the closest guidelines I can find) requires multiple non-trivial third-party articles to establish notability, and I'm only finding church newsletters and blogs for the rest of it. In any case, per the ad sheet the ABP is a church organ (sorry, couldn't resist the pun) and not a third-party. Tychocat 11:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: As Dlohcierekim alluded to, how does this meet notablity standards at WP:CORP? Arbusto 21:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But the issues is WP:V, and WP:CORP notability. Without WP:V to verifiy what it is the article will be bastion of POV, and what it isn't (accredited). If this institute becomes notable and has valuable sources then the article should be recreated, but until then the article lacks WP:V which does no favors to the instiute. Arbusto 20:24, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I don't have a problem with us documenting known diploma mills so long as we specify that these institutions are not accredited. Silensor 00:14, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as failing WP:CORP (if any more detailed evidence of the institute being important in the intra-Baptist struggles that made it into non-Baptist press then I may consider changing my attitude). JoshuaZ 01:40, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep As a Jew, I cannot possibly understand all the nuances that went into creating this school. But a thorough read through the articles regarding the school shows that it is quite genuine and was created to meet a perceived need for a new type of school. That a new school is not accredited by a well-known accrediting agency does not make it a diploma mill. Nor do I find it at all unusual that the mainstream press hasn't latched on to this school as a subject for articles that would confer the notability so many feel it would be given. Despite the lack of traditional news coverage, the articles provided and available online provide clear satisfaction of WP:V . I find the use of "scare quotes" and other derogatory suppositions regarding its nonaccreditation making it a suspected diploma mill to be a staggering violation of WP:AGF. I have few doubts regarding the notability of this institution, but many regarding those who are so quick to delete it based on entirely unsupported suppositions and original research. Alansohn 03:28, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for the reply to prove my point about good faith violations. These folks seem to have a genuine interest in teaching folks their version of Baptist theology as they understand it. I've seen ads for diploma mills, all of which read "send in a check we'll send you a sheepskin." If you take a look at the school's admission requirements, they're doing a very poor job of attracting only those who just want a phony credential. I see no evidence (nor has anyone offered any) implying that they're pushing paper, and not their brand of gospel. I find the school notable and verifiable, and I can at least respect challenges to the issue, even if I disagree. But, other than that, all I see are rampant violations of WP:AGF. Alansohn 03:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment AGF applies to users and their actions. AGF has absolutely nothing to do with assuming the school is acting in good faith. JoshuaZ 03:16, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • Comment I agree 100%. I see people deciding to delete this article because they have presumed that the article was created to push a diploma mill. The bad faith demonstrated regarding the institution itself is just gravy (bordering on bigotry). Alansohn 03:28, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep please per alahnsohn notability is not doubted here by me either Yuckfoo 05:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: If notability isn't doubted by you then explain how it passes WP:CORP? Around 200 google hits and article asserts nothing.Arbusto 07:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and this several in the last few weeks to get attacked. I am compiling evidence to end this though. Arbusto 00:48, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. - Mailer Diablo 05:34, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Free Range Studios

First AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Free Range Studios

This article was deleted after the first AfD, mostly over advertising/POV concerns. User:VegaDark requested to recreate a non-POV version of the article. So the questions for this round are: 1. Does the article adhere to WP:NPOV, and 2. Does the article successfully establish notability? ~ trialsanderrors 01:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Since the first AfD I've made major improvements to the article to make it much more NPOV and encyclopedic Diff, which were the main reasons for it's original deletion. This company is to be considered notable based on the criteria at WP:CORP, please see my comments at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2006 September 12 on that. The article still needs cleanup so feel free to make any edits you feel appropriate, I erred on the side of keeping info when I did my rewrite so there is probably still some info the article could do without. VegaDark 01:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy Keep per VegaDark. A clear, NPOV article that establishes notability. Since there is no one really voting delete, I feel a speedy keep is in order. --Daniel Olsen 01:17, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I voted Weak Keep last time; User:VegaDark has definitely improved the quality of the article greatly, mostly by making the article shorter. Nicely done VegaDark. My Alt Account 01:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep — much better than the draft :) -- lucasbfr talk 01:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, with regret. VegaDark has done great work, but I still don't see enough reliable sources that push the company over the line in WP:CORP. Specifically, of the references, the first two sources are interviews, which are not fact-checked. The third is an article written by one of the company founders. The fourth is commercial self-promotion. Five, seven, and ten are about The Meatrix, which we have covered. Eight is a press release with a single paragraph about one of their films. And eleven is their own site. That leaves only one reference, number six, a short article from the Epoch Times. With only one article that's actually about the company and from what I'd call a reliable source, to me this doesn't pass WP:CORP. It pains me to advocate deletion of such a nice-looking article, but unless more evidence of notability turns up, I don't see an alternative. Sorry, William Pietri 01:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • While I agree some of the sources are suspect, the first two I would consider meeting the requirements of WP:CORP (first isn't working right now though). I asked on the talk page if interviews meet the requirement or not and the answer was essentially "it depends, use good judgement". I think they look independent enough to be reliable. The fifth source is not only about the movie, part of the article about the company that made it. VegaDark 01:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oops. I left out reference 9, which is a link to an unsigned blog-ish post on a web portal. Sorry for the unintentional ommission. William Pietri 04:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I agree with William Pietri here, looking at the Newsbank coverage I get less than ten mentions total, about half in passing, and none that are actually about the company. Four or five are about Store Wars, so that might be worth an article, but I'm unwilling to buy arguments that two sources are enough to fulfill WP:CORP when the WP article is longer than the full text length of the sources. We're here to summarize the existing sources, not to extend them. ~ trialsanderrors 02:33, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I looked through the refs, and though some of the links don't work (after only 11 days), there are enough that do that, to me, provide independent verifiability. That, plus the filmography shows plenty of notability in my book. I didn't see it before the page was redone, but it looks like it should be kept at this point. Akradecki 02:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per William Petri. Though the article looks nice, if it isn't just promotion, why are there so many images in the page? It does feel like free advertising to me... --Ogdred 03:38, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per William's reasoning above. I share his disappointment - even I have heard of this and I am the last person to hear about web fads and the like, but the independent reliable sources simply do not seem to be there, and without them we can't have an article, because we can't verify the neutrality of the article. Guy 12:10, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Despite William's reasoning, a quick web search shows me that there's a lot more out there that can be used. WP:V should not be a major obstacle here. Okay, WP:CORP may be, but it seems like this is the kind of company that may fit in the fringes of that guideline... and I would really hesitate to classify this under "indiscriminate collection of information," and WP is not paper after all. As WP:NPOV is no longer an issue here, I think we can keep Vega's hard work. Mangojuicetalk 12:54, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I find that these two sentences:

1. ...and the novelty of it got the attention of both the general public and the social activism community

2. ...Free Range delivered its first Flash animation piece that would have worldwide impact.

and the overall tone of the article is trying to be, at times, too corporate-bound, as someone from the company, Free Range Studios, or someone from an advertising firm hired for Free Range was to write to pronounce and glorify efforts, that I think, is from just another rank and file graphics firm. I understand that this studio has been instrumental in eliminating the civil war in Sierra Leone, but what percentage of contributions they gave to ending the bloodshed is questionable; (is there an article stating the direct cause Free Range Studio's movie had on both sides of the war? Would internet access and electricity be readily available for the warring sides? I simply cannot imagine whether the bloodshed in Sierra Leone, would have, even momentarily, ceased to watch and think about this Flash animation). Finally, The sources lack the tangible authority that Wikipedia is generally known for when its users produce knowledgeable, useful, and globally relative. The sources, or the lack thereof, appeal to people who have strong interest in graphic arts and is severely limited to that clique. An internet user would gather more information simply googling for Free Range Studios, and visiting the company's official website.Hellwing 00:11, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy delete, A7 (no assertion of notability). Guy 12:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Christina Parkins

I cannot verify this information and the article is unsourced. Deville (Talk) 01:05, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect. Sango123 23:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stanford Residential College

Non notable residential college at the University of Miami. Google hits are mostly from the University of Miami website. Babomb 01:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:59, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FedEx Flight 7145

This is not a major aviation incident. No one died, the cause of the crash is not peculiar; its just a plane that crashed. It has no encyclopedic value. – Zntrip 01:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, discounting SPAs, newbies. Alkivar's keep would be more compelling if it weren't in Pirate-Day Pirate-Speak. :) Xoloz 16:04, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jason Scott (Life Tabernacle Church)

non-notable, fails verifiablity, fails WP:LIVING —Hanuman Das 01:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per my nom. The reference links don't work, and an affidavit is not a reliable source. —Hanuman Das 01:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep. Many of the details would be verifiable (there was a civil suit). The first link does work, pointing to a news article, and there is back-up on the Ross page, stating that this did bankrupt the CAN. There is clearly an honest attempt at sourcing the aticle here. Is this deletion request in good faith? --Ogdred 01:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and being the case that caused the Cult Awareness Network to go bankrupt and end up in the hands of the Scientologists (assuming that is indeed true) is certainly notable in my book. --Ogdred 01:31, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the nom is in good faith. Neither of the links was working when I nommed it. I agree that the case itself is notable, but is the person? —Hanuman Das 04:51, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Per above. Shortfuse 02:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Uhh...so is he really notable because litigation involving him caused the CAN to go bankrupt? And in that case why isn't it enough that the CAN article covers this? This fellow is a private citizen who does not seem to have done anything besides file a lawsuit against the CAN. Litigants in lawsuits, even if the lawsuits generate famous issues or produce famous results, are not usually notable. We should respect this guy's privacy. Allon Fambrizzi 05:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)Allon Fambrizzi[reply]
Yeah, what he said. —Hanuman Das 05:10, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. As I see it, the article passes WP:V, WP:LIVING and the links work, so most of the reasons for deletion given here are not valid. The article presents reasonable detail about his notability, including not just the suit itself, but the circumstances around the later settlement, and attempts by his former lawyer to nullify it, so Scott is not just a plaintiff here. On top of that, it is a fairly well written and sourced page, in contrast to most of what is being discussed here. --Ogdred 06:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete ultimately this is not about Jason Scott the man, it's about the Jason Scott deprogramming incident and subsequent repercussions. The subject appears to have little or no coverage outside of that restricted locus. Thus, covering it in the articles on CAN and Ross is both logical and prudent per WP:LIVING . I am not sure the subjecty would consider this incident to be the sum totalof his life's worth, and as the article says his current activities are unknown (for good reason: he is not actually independently notable). Nor is this article entirely about Jason Scott, a fair bit of it is about his mother as well. Overall, I'd say delete this history and redirect the few inbound links to CAN. Guy 12:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Merge with/redirect to CAN article. --Roninbk 13:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This man had a huge effect on the deprogrammer industry. Seano1 19:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or Rename The arguments for renaming the page to something like "The Rick Ross -- Jason Scott Case" make sense, but the information is too important to the history of cults to delete. Thank you. User:AOrange 17:08 13 September 2006 (PDT) — Possible single purpose account: AOrange (talk • contribs) has made few or no other contributions outside this topic..
  • Keep. I agree with AOrange that it might be renamed after the Case, though, as it's not really about Jason Scott's life, just his famous case. --Eileen R 02:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This is not a biography, but an article about a court case, a case which is only important in the context of CAN. Any info not in the CAN article should be merged into it. -999 (Talk) 14:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Arrrrrr this be a Keep says I tis a famous incident... methinks this belongs as a keep!  ALKIVAR™ 13:00, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete merge any relevant details into the CAN article. TewfikTalk 18:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:00, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NebraskaFish

Notability/importance in question. Text itself indicates ...NebraskaFish's is known to few outside the state of Nebraska... — NMChico24 01:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Not only was it never going to pass muster, it was created by the developer and was inconsistent about whether it actually exists or not. So while it might not strictly qualify for speedy (although actually it did lack sufficient context to establish why anyone would want it), it does qualify for early closure before the AfD becomes an attack on the creator. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Guy 12:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Secure the system

Fails WP:SOFTWARE as a minor utility and was created by the developer. Crystallina 01:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Blanked, per request. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 05:58, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Horse ripping compared to cattle mutilation

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 20:34, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Calera Presbyterian Church

Delete. Non-notable church. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lighthouse United Pentecostal Church Omaha, Nebraska. --דניאל ~ Danielrocks123 talk contribs Count 02:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 20:34, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Leona Czwartkowski

An unencyclopedic article on a nn Canadian author and poet whose children's book, All Aboard The School Bus, co-written with four other writers, is not recognized by Amazon.ca and Chapters.Indigo.ca (the country's two largest booksellers), and receives a total of three unique ghits - all sourced through Wikipedia. The anthologies in which Czartkowski has appeared are also not recognized. Possibly a vanity article - the original editor has contributed exclusively to this article, Robert L.J. Zenik (Czwartkowski's husband), and lists, such as List of Canadian poets, to which the user has added Zenik and Czwartkowski. Victoriagirl 02:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was bone-shattering roundhouse delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:14, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CHI-GI 氣-기

  • Delete: Possibly a hoax? Definitely unsourced and I can't find any verification for this even existing. A martial arts form founded in New Zealand sounds a little fishy, no? If someone can prove me wrong, I'll gladly end this early. —Wknight94 (talk) 02:44, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete. Not entirely sure about this -- it doesn't exactly look like a hoax to me, just poorly written and unsourced. (Oh, and the characters and caps in the title would have to go.) I cwould deleat on WP:V, as I can't find any relevant Google hits. --Ogdred 02:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and clean up. Zazaban 04:08, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Could you please explain why?--TBCTaLk?!? 04:28, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Without going into whether this particular article is a hoax or not, I want to point out a big pitfall of counting ghits for a term in Chinese, namely that transcriptions and transliterations can vary -- I can think of at least three transliteration systems just for Mandarin, not to mention whatever one-off ways people come up with of contextlessly writing down one Chinese word in Roman letters.–♥ «Charles A. L.» 15:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, note that the characters in the title are half Chinese and half Korean ("기" is a Korean character), which may be further proof that the article is a hoax.--TBCTaLk?!? 17:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for now - I am going to go to NZ to track these guys down. Then, I'm going to kick all their asses. I will be able to fully document the martial art once I'm done doing this. Until then, no evidence that it even exists. My Alt Account 04:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't that original research? 8-)–♥ «Charles A. L.» 15:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think the ass-kicking will get very substantial independent coverage. My Alt Account 22:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:57, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agudath Israel Etz Ahayem

Delete. Non-notable synagogue. Most synagogues, churches, etc are not notable. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lighthouse United Pentecostal Church Omaha, Nebraska --דניאל ~ Danielrocks123 talk contribs Count 02:31, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This nomination is based on a mass deletion of churches. see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lighthouse United Pentecostal Church Omaha, Nebraska. Jon513 10:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 14:58, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hope Evangelical Lutheran Church

Probably not a notable congregation. Another user endorsed this proposed deletion. Peter O. (Talk) 03:17, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Aquanodd labs

Vanity page of non-notable corporation. No hits on google. No alexa traffic ranking. No evidence of satisfying WP:CORP. Valrith 03:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was nomination withdrawn. - Mailer Diablo 15:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

World Series Wrestling

International Assault article has been deleted, therefore this article serves no purpose Normy132 03:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Daniel Olsen 06:48, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:15, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Emerson II, L. R.

It really does read too much like an advertisement. And no citations. Bordello 03:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - Vanispamcruftisement. --Daniel Olsen 03:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • His web site says that Upside Down Art is hanging at the Louvre -- that sounds pretty important to me! Delete. --Ogdred 04:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete Does not seem like any issues exist to justify further discussion. Allon Fambrizzi 04:46, 13 September 2006 (UTC)Allon Fambrizzi[reply]
    • Comment. How does it fall under WP:CSD? Not having any "issues existing" is not a criteria for speedy deletion. Also, the nomination has been recently created, so there's always a chance for someone further on to bring up new evidence showing that the article may be notable.--TBCTaLk?!? 05:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Casper2k3 05:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. --physicq210 05:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete this vanispamcruftisement created by the artist's promoter. Guy 13:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Per nom. Thε Halo Θ 14:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Google returns no independent info about this guy. It seems like an hoax or con. Seano1 20:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete NN. Arbusto 22:33, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you delete me then would you delete my Uncle, Ernest Emerson of Emerson Knives, known all over the word and who's knives are used by US/British special forces? "My art "introduced to Lourve" L R.E. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.88.17.90 (talk • contribs) 14 September 2006.
    • Maybe, maybe not. The AfD debates are not linked in any way, they only create a "precedent" if the cases are extremely similar, and even in that case they're always independently considered. (If anything, delete debates can provide guidance to forging the notability criteria.) In this case this article's debate wouldn't have any bearings whatsoever on deletion debate of Ernest Emerson, in my opinion. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 08:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • WIKIPEDIA -DOES NOT GET MY POINT -You suggest Google was a source for verification! Ha, I am the source for verification! My uncle-Ernest Emerson, I am also the 13th Great Nephew of Hannah Emerson -DUSTIN, who's reatated to Ralph Waldo Emerson, thus I am also part of the Ralph Waldo Emerson Family Tree, and so is my Uncle, Ernest Emerson. Emersons have been in the US since the 1640's. Don't delete any one of us until you know your facts. Goolge should never be your only source. My accomplishments are well documented in many ways and I do not share all of my work with the web or with it's users. This year alone I am giving away $1,000,000 in art. Is this also nothing to Wikipedia??? Delete me I don't care, delete all of the Emerson's. - signed L. R. Emerson II —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.88.21.197 (talk • contribs) .
    • First, Google test is only something that gives people a gut feeling on how widespread or popular something is - it's not a substitute for notability criteria, but it's an indicator among many. But in this case, it's pretty problematic: the article has no references. If we can't google this, how on Earth anyone is supposed to fill the references and clean up the ad tone? One would guess there were a lot of web references famous people of this caliber, no? Yet none are referenced in the article, not even the printed material, none of the press material. Second, "this person has famous relatives/ancestors" is not a positive notability criterion. We've already deleted a lot of articles on the grounds that they're just some celebrity's children with absolutely no accomplishments of their own. Third, please don't take AfDs personally. We're not debating about your worthiness, we're debating whether or not the article fits our inclusion criteria in this state. And forthly, please sign your comments by using the signature button on the toolbar, or using four tildes in row (~~~~) after your comment. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 08:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Celebrity - Ha!! I am not desiring nor needing celebrity. As far as references within the article Emerson Knives and Ernest Emerson's work as well as Hannah Emerson Dustin and Ralph Waldo Emerson's work are easily researchable on the web. Only since last year have I allowed work about myself to be posted on the web by my representative e4 FINE ART, e4fineart.com., >To talk</, you mention google was only "one" way of many way to get a gut reaction to an article, despite that on goolge searching "l. R. Emerson II" produces 3 pages of results. Are you saying I do not exist at all. Even just in May, 2006 my work was exhibited at Virginia's elite and nationally respected, Contemporary Arts Center and two television programs have recently been in contact with me. My work was being published as early as 1985 in both trade magazines and Newspapers. Work has also been on th cover of Entertainment Sections of Daily newspapers and other newspapers. During the past 20 years more than 100 awards, including ceremonies in my honor have be bestowed upon me - not that I care or I would have introduced my "upside-down art" 20 years ago. Instead I professionally perused art starting in 1985 and built a tremendously successful business, as awards came in and in 2005 hired assigned a major portion of my work over to e4 FINE ART to represent and promote. I am not really sure why this is any of your "talk pages" business to know.

Is every article on wikipedia written with every single detail of a person's ( they are the subject) life or life's work. Seems to me the majority of the qualitative comments on this discussion about deleting the article have been that There were no references or that the style of the writing sounded like an ad. There are some published biographical articles in the possession of e4 FINE ART, which do not sound like an ad. Is Wikipedia saying these should be incorporated into the article, "Emerson, L. R.' ?

Sounds to me Wikipedia is not an encyclopedia edited by users but rather an encyclopedia wishing it was Britannica. It is not critical for me to see that all evidence of my success be posted to the web. So to use google as a "primary" source, albeit ‘gut feeling’ or whatever is bogus. My accomplishments speak for themselves and there is so much more to be told and to come. If other tests exist to define the merit of an article what are they??? L. R. E. 4.88.19.176 11:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)/* Emerson II, L. R. */[reply]

  • Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia edited by users. It's also an encyclopaedia that is edited by users. This may sound surprising. "Editing" doesn't just mean "add random information that someone finds interesting", yes, we value that too. But editing also means "summarise, compare, add sources, add pointers to further information". That's what "real" encyclopaedias do, too. As said above, don't require web sources, just sources that are reliable and sufficiently public. You say you have newspaper sources - that's fine, by all means, do add them to the article. Please be specific - it's not enough to say "has appeared on cover of magazines", but it would be prudent to give examples of such. As for published bios, we can't use them, due to copyright reasons, unless they're licenced under GFDL - but they can be used as starting points and sources. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 14:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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