Talk:Land of Israel/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

I believe they are called scales

A standard map feature noticeably absent is the dimensional scale. I am wanting to know the physical dimensions of the land. I think it's ironic that there are perhaps fifteen maps and the word Mile or Kilometer does not even appear in the article. Xgenei (talk) 07:14, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

As the creator of the two Land of Israel maps, I expected (and got) lots of criticism but not this one. In both my maps, the current political states are indicated as colored areas in the background. from this and the dimensions of these states, you can do the math. It will be easier than calculating from a scale. Emmanuelm (talk) 13:34, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

the nation of Israel

if the abraham was to receive the promise of seed being numerous. and through his family linege. Israel is just a portion. are there not many nations under israel. where are the twelve nations located. twelve tribes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.140.102 (talk) 02:29, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

how much land was given to Issac and then passed on to jacob and so forth. I see Israel bigger than the geographic pictures.

I can't see Israel having such a small portion when it says clearly that he would have a great name and nation. and that his land would be great.I feel that parts of Israel was much larger land. is it possible that we will discover this shortly. that we will uncover hidden treasure of this land.of documents hidden from history now recovered. land will soon find evidence that it was much larger than recorded. it would be nice to know geographically. of some evidence lurking nearby the mosque buried beneath the well. just a wish dream. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.140.102 (talk) 02:45, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

It seems merger suggestion with '"promised land" is not valid

I will remove it unless there is active objection (the notice exists for several months and no discussion has begun since).Greyshark09 (talk) 16:14, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

There was a discussion in July 2008 in the talk page of Promised Land. The majority opinion was in favour of this this merge but, somehow, nothing was done. Do you want to do it? Emmanuelm (talk) 20:29, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think this poll is valid any more, especially since the merger wan't done back then, and for almost 3 years everybody was "ok" that the merger wasn't performed. If you like to do a new poll, then ok, if not i will remove the notice.Greyshark09 (talk) 18:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Removed it, until new request is issued.Greyshark09 (talk) 21:32, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

"Neutral Point of View / Objectivity"

Kindly refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology Irrespective of the particular religious faith, "sacred" texts is improper {sacred to whom??} while explicit reference to the mythological nature of the assertions contained therein is fair.

This has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with not smuggling in ideas of objective truth simply because it pertains to the Bible, or Judaism, et cetera.

The bare, self-serving mythos of alleging the Creator promised land {already occupied} to a specfic ethno-religious group *may* be true, but the problem is it can not be assumed as true. Please refer to the concept of tautology.

I know God wrote the bible because the bible says god wrote it... this is not the standard for an encyclopedia... 68.173.231.193 (talk) 00:18, 5 July 2011 (UTC)fealsunachta

Neutrality

It feels that this page has several phrases that are in some way pro-Israel. I'll try to give some examples:

It occasionally surfaces in political debates on the status of the Palestinian territories.- When taken in context with the preceding text, grossly mis-understated and I think it fits a pattern of playing down the issues with Palestine/Arab neighbors.

Johann Friedrich Karl Keil is less clear, as he states that the covenant is through Isaac, but notes that Ishmael's descendants have held much of that land through time.[26] - This paragraph I wouldn't call biased, but, possibly on a side note, I think someone more familiar should point out the other ideas, such as God promised Abraham, Jews are no more descendants of Abraham then Christians and Muslims, ergo the 3 Abrahamic religions.

1918–1948: British mandate of Palestine under, first, League of Nations, then, successor United Nations; the Emirate of Trans-Jordan was separated from the rest of Palestine in 1922, and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan became independent upon the expiration of the League of Nations Mandate in 1946. May 1948–June 1967: Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, for the Old City of Jerusalem and the larger part of the area; State of Israel for a smaller strip of land in the west June 1967 to present: State of Israel 1993 to present: State of Israel and Palestinian territories - Completely omitting Israels actions, using friendly language to work around the multiple wars and other widely considered war-crimes that are certainly important to the timeline.

Nonetheless, during two millennia of exile and with an almost continuous small settlement, a strong sense of bondedness exists throughout this tradition... - Clearly needs to be reworded, inaccurate, un-cited, and opinionated.

When Israel was founded in 1948, the majority Labor leadership, which governed for three decades after independence, accepted the partition of the previous British Mandate of Palestine into independent Jewish and Arab states as a pragmatic solution to the political and demographic issues of the territory, with the description Land of Israel applying to the territory of the State of Israel within the Green Line. The then opposition revisionists, who evolved into today's Likud party, however, regarded the rightful Land of Israel as Eretz Yisrael Ha-Shlema (literally, the whole Land of Israel), which came to be referred to as Greater Israel. - Again undertones of bias, and innaccurate, not addressing the negatives of the event.

Usage by Palestinians (heading) - There's only one rather trivial idea addressed, could be improved.

Overall the language clearly seems skewed to pro-Israelism, and under playing most notably the Palestinian pov. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.236.40 (talk) 15:53, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Capital cities of Israel by the Bible

hi !. please notice to this cities:

• Jerusalem - capital of all jewish people
• Shiloh - it was the temporary Capital of israel befor the first temple was built in Jerusalem.

• Tel Dan - capital of north israel kingdom
• Shechem (Nablus) - capital of north israel kingdom
• Beit El

פארוק (talk) 18:04, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion for the article

I wonder if the article should be split in two - one part for the biblcal term, another for the way the term has been used in modern times?

The biblical term doesn't appear before the Exile - it seems to have been used in books like Numbers and Ezekiel to cement a sense of identity among the exilic community prior to the return to Judah. That's why the boundaries differ - sometimes they're pretty much coterminous with the Persian province of Beyond-the-River, sometimes much smaller. There are some good books in the references section (Meyer for example), but they need to used better.

I don't know anything about the modern period and can't help there. PiCo (talk) 12:40, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel

Declaration of Independence of Israel

The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel commences by drawing a direct line from Biblical times to the present:

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable.

The previous rendition of this section above has several failings:-

1 It has no references.

2 If it is meant to be a quotation from the Declaration of the Establishment of Israel, it should say so.

3 If it is meant to be a suumary of Resolution 181(II), it is inaccurate:-

a) The Resolution recommenced not called for the establishment of a Jewish State.

b} The Resolution 'Calls upon the inhabitants of Palestine to take such steps as may be necessary on their part to put this plan into effect': It does not require the inhabitants of Palestine to do anything and does not even mention the inhabitants of Eretz Israel or even Eretz Israel itself.Trahelliven (talk) 08:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

No More Mr Nice Guy's completely un-necessary MASS revert for only one word

Revert reason "official jewish name"? you must be joking [1]
NMMNG -- WHY? You contest only one word. When a partial revert is available and considered appropriate? Please Re do appropriately... thx talknic (talk) 11:33, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

If you make smaller edits I won't need to revert the whole thing to correct your made up stuff. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 11:36, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

NMMNG -- A) Partial revert is available and recommended

B) "official jewish name"? Hebrew is a Jewish Language. It certainly isn't the official Arabic name. talknic (talk) 11:45, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

NMMNG "I won't need to revert the whole thing to correct your made up stuff"... A) What "made up stuff" and; B) WHY?

1) Revert - The chronological order of events in the lede? I didn't make up the dates!

2) Revert - "a" when "the" no longer fitted the moved dialogue?

3) Revert - a reference to the Lon Mandate which shows the necessary chronological delineation of Palestine from TransJordan?

4) Revert - The Arab naming on the stamp, putting the section in breech of WP:NPOV

5) Revert - The CN pertaining to the chronological move? It's courtesy to point out that the move necessitated clarification of a partial statement.

The Article is Tagged:

Which calls for editors to attempt to address unsourced statements, et al.

Please undo, with the exception if you wish of the one word (Jewish) you objected to.( if you believe Hebrew isn't a Jewish language ) -- thx 15:29, 4 July 2012 (UTC)talknic (talk)

I made a single revert. Like I said, if you make smaller edits I won't need to revert the whole thing.

The Mandate had 3 official languages. English, Arabic, and... Jewish?

I will suggest for the nth time (not sure why I bother) that you actually read some books about the topics of the articles you edit and use the terminology reliable sources use. That way you can avoid making up silly terminology that will get reverted. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 16:30, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

NMMNG --- One can do a partial revert. Assistance here [2]

"The Mandate had 3 official languages. English, Arabic, and... Jewish?" This is what I wrote // During the Mandate, the name Eretz Yisrael (abbreviated א״י Aleph-Yod), was part of the official Jewish name for the territory, when written in Hebrew// No mention of a 'Jewish' language.

Please stick to the topic, save your unnecessary personal remarks for elsewhere, do not ignore questions, stop hounding and partially revert .. thx talknic (talk) 17:05, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Spare me the silly lectures and try to stick to terminology common in scholarship rather than make up stuff as you go along. There was no "official Jewish name" for the territory. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 17:14, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

NMMNG -- No Jewish documents contained the name? Not even the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, the Jewish State? "...part of the official name of the territory" according Arabs or Jews [3]. If the latter, it would be what exactly if not a Jewish name? talknic (talk) 19:10, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

NMMNG -- you have addressed only one point of your unnecessary revert, the word "Jewish". Please Undo your revert, bar this one word issue ... thx talknic (talk) 19:18, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

As NMMNG has only objected to one word and given no reason for any other issues, I've done a partial revert, sans his one and only objection talknic (talk) 01:31, 5 July 2012 (UTC)