User talk:Buckshot06

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Archives
Archive 1 (August - October 2006)
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Archive 3 ( - July 2007)
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Archive 7 (from then to later)
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Archive 11 (April-May 2008)
Archive 12 (May - June 2008)
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RuAF

I have Altered alot with that pages Misguided Information it has the T-60s canceled when it became the Pakda just how LFS became Pakfa and Mikoyan LMFS program Russia has 4000 aircraft 2200 are combat please im me i dont know how to give references which i have tons of or to contact you thank you so much (User:LMFS)

Forces of central subordination

I don't mind helping you out with this, but I should admit that the military terminology is not something I am very comfortable translating (I am capable of translating it, but I can't guarantee the quality of the output). However, I could supply the links to the articles about the populated places, if that helps you any. I wish I could help with the airports as well, but I don't really have anything to look them up properly, so it's going to be hit-or-miss there. Let me know what you want me to do.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:21, June 22, 2009 (UTC)

I've translated the portion you requested, but I want to once more re-emphasize that I wasn't very comfortable with the quality of my translation—it felt as if I was guessing, rather than knowledgeably translating, way too often. I hope the translation helps you get the idea of what all those facilities are, so you could then copy-edit it to conform with the established English military terminology. Let me know if there is anything else I can do. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:25, June 24, 2009 (UTC)

Vladimirsky Lager

Any time. Enjoy! I trust you'll be taking care of the army base portion from here?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:16, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

LMFS

Hey Thanks so much for everything can you make a page about the Russian Dozor 600 UAV its said to be a future UAV for Russia heres the link

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/2009/08/russias-newest-uav-at-maks-2009.html

you can also watch it on youtube thx :)

TUSC token b088c2c74706bfe6ef07cc0994df7ac3

I am now proud owner of a TUSC account!

3rd Guards MRD

Happy new year to you too (and I wish I could continue my holidays till January 14...)! I'll take a look at this some time later this week, if you don't mind. Are you working with the verbatim ru-wiki version, or is your version a mix? Just want to clarify how much fixing I should be doing :) Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:38, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay; truth be told, I forgot :( Anyway, it's done now, although I would recommend you proofread it one more time and copyedit as necessary. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:18, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

No worries

Happy new year! I have the resources to do something useful, I'm glad someone took notice of my work! yeah sure i will try and follow the guidelines, i'll see how i go? Buckshot06 are you upset the fact that New Zealand scrapped the combat types of your airforce? take it easy ;(User talk:Lovetravel86); 16:38, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Marinovka

Nope, it's just one of the countless villages in Volgograd Oblast; there really is nothing special about it. I've created a Marinovka set index for navigation; let me know if you want a (very) basic stub on the Volgograd Oblast village as well. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); June 7, 2010; 13:57 (UTC)

Soviet Air Defense Forces

Sorry, I'm afraid you misunderstood. I don't have most of the books they have. I have a very large library of books on the administrative divisions, with which their collection of ATD books has a great deal of overlap, but I don't have books on any other subjects they have. Of the books I own, none are on the subject of the SADF.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); June 25, 2010; 13:16 (UTC)

TB

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WP:RUS

We don't have approved spellings, we have romanization guidelines :) For each individual person from your list, you should be using the spelling which is the most common in the English-language sources you are going to use. If you only have Russian sources, then use the WP:RUS default romanization—Arkady Bakhin, Alexander Galkin, Konstantin Sidenko, Vladimir Chirkin. If the English-language sources use different spellings inconsistently, then pick one that's closest to the WP:RUS default variant. Does it help? Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 9, 2010; 14:22 (UTC)

TB

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Military districts of Russia

Just wanted to give you a heads-up (in case you missed it) that the military districts of Russia have been re-organized on September 20 (with the effective date of December 1). If there's anything I can help with, please don't hesitate to let me know. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 23, 2010; 13:24 (UTC)

I am not much interested in translation work; sorry! Too much on my plate as it is. I could help with the specifics of the changes, but it seems you are ahead of me there. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 23, 2010; 21:15 (UTC)

Talkback

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Happy New Year!

Thanks for the season's greetings! I hope you are enjoying the holidays yourself as well.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); December 27, 2010; 14:33 (UTC)

Dmitriyevka

Sure, will do. There are, however, five rural localities called "Dmitriyevka" in Orenburg Oblast, so if you have anything to add, it might help. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 15, 2011; 16:45 (UTC)

No problem; I haven't even started looking when I asked the question :) I've greatly expanded the Dmitriyevka set index. The Dmitriyevka you need is Dmitriyevka, Sakmarsky District, Orenburg Oblast. Will this work for you, or do you need me to create that stub as well? Thanks.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 16, 2011; 16:46 (UTC)

Hmm, this is getting a little confusing :) What is the airfield called exactly, do you know? Dmitriyevka is located in Sakmarsky District, but the settlement of Chebenki is in neighboring Orenburgsky District. The airfield is located at some distance from them both, although it is closer to Dmitiryevka than it is to the settlement of Chebenki (and it is in Sakmarsky District). I'll move the air base article to Chebenki (air base) and put a dab page at Chebenki, but let me know if there's anything else I can help with. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 16, 2011; 17:11 (UTC)

Ah, I've never seen that statement. It helps clarify the overall state of things quite a bit; thanks. Don't hesitate to let me know if you think of anything else I can help with. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 16, 2011; 17:19 (UTC)

Hi

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Commons

I've asked Russavia (talk · contribs) to take a look at your request. He's an admin on the Commons, and since he deals with this kind of tasks all the time, I'm more confident in his ability to take care of this properly. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 2, 2011; 14:19 (UTC)

Talkback

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TB

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Talkback

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mail call

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talkback

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Talkback

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Roshchinsky, Samara Oblast

OK, done. Have fun with the rest of it :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); June 25, 2012; 15:44 (UTC)

Orbat.com

Hey,

Re: the info you added from this website to the 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division website, where about on the website did you get the info? I ask as i was going to add an entry in the refs section but i cant find the info.

Translation question

Hi there! May I ask you to look at this section to double-check, please? Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); July 9, 2012; 13:45 (UTC)

Negative evaluation

the MISLS participated in the battle of Okinawa. Some nisei soldier used violence to torture Okinawan civilians. Thereafter these civilians were handed over to a U.S. Lieutenant. Some civilians were shot. It happened in June 24, 1945. during the occupation of Japan, some Nisei soldiers abusing prisoners and even civilians. A Japan Journalist think nisei are the worst kind of G.I.s.

during the occupation of Japan, through the formation of such organizations as the Civil Censorship Detachment (CCD), MIS linguists played an important role in News blackout. Between 1945 and 1949, the CCD nisei soldiers was responsible for reviewing all Japanese publications. The CCD eventually banned a total of 31 topics from all forms of media.journalists were banned from reporting the G.I.s Crime. .「The editor of the magazine “Emancipation News” was sentenced to− five years of hard labor(Braw1991,chapter7)」 Children's books are no exception.

How much is too much (etc.)

First, I agree with your Notes/References breakout on the 23d Fighter Group article. Since I've added notes to a number of USAF unit articles, I'll revisit them to make similar changes where appropriate. Second, I have linked headquarters and subordinate unit external links in a number of unit articles. Since you have been Wiki'ing much longer than I, about how many such links would you consider to be not in line with the MOS? I have added them to a number of articles (but not as many as the 23d) but I'd rather not do a mass removal that is unnecessary.

Kalinka

Here we go: Kalinka, Russia. The coordinates on the one you need seem to be a little off. Let me know if you need anything else. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); December 3, 2012; 14:54 (UTC)

Talkback

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56th (London) Infantry Division

"(Buckshot06 moved page 56th (London) Infantry Division to 56th (London) Division: No evidence this was called 'Infantry') (undo)"

I do not know about the First World War, however Lt-Col Joslen (p.92) supports that they were called an 'infantry' division during the Second World War after being designated from 1st London Division.

There is however the case of the 23rd (Northumbrian) Division, he specifically does not include the word infantry in there title.

I do have a copy of the book, however the division is outside the scope of anything else I have. I am a desert and Western Front man, not an Italian campaign person. I think until there is additional evidence, the status quo is fine.

Not much. I edit on a sporadic basis at the moment. I am in the final months of university so that has the majority of my attention. I don't know if I will edit like I use to, although if I did it would probably be on some Normandy related articles.

Turkish Army

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Task Group 3.4

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Happy New Year

Hi Buckshot06,

W. B. Wilson here, browsing from Poland at the moment.

Happy New Year and I hope the Christmas was a good one.  ? re: Soviet armies articles -- is there any particular format -- might not be bad form to use one, perhaps a format in an existing article about a Soviet army. At any rate, I expect to have more time on my hands in a couple of months or so.

Cheers again,

W. B. Wilson

Books & Bytes New Years Double Issue

Books & Bytes

Volume 1 Issue 3, December/January 2013

(Sign up for monthly delivery)

Happy New Year, and welcome to a special double issue of Books & Bytes. We've included a retrospective on the changes and progress TWL has seen over the last year, the results of the survey TWL participants completed in December, some of our plans for the future, a second interview with a Wiki Love Libraries coordinator, and more. Here's to 2014 being a year of expansion and innovation for TWL!

The Wikipedia Library completed the first 6 months of its Individual Engagement grant last week. Here's where we are and what we've done:

Increased access to sources: 1500 editors signed up for 3700 free accounts, individually worth over $500,000, with usage increases of 400-600%

Deep networking: Built relationships with Credo, HighBeam, Questia, JSTOR, Cochrane, LexisNexis, EBSCO, New York Times, and OCLC

New pilot projects: Started the Wikipedia Visiting Scholar project to empower university-affiliated Wikipedia researchers

Developed community: Created portal connecting 250 newsletter recipients, 30 library members, 3 volunteer coordinators, and 2 part-time contractors

Tech scoped: Spec'd out a reference tool for linking to full-text sources and established a basis for OAuth integration

Broad outreach: Wrote a feature article for Library Journal's The Digital Shift; presenting at the American Library Association annual meeting

...Read Books & Bytes!

FOSM record

The first thing is that the record is not actually at TNA, but is retained by MOD (under Section 3.4 of the Public Record Act 1958 - as amended). This suggests it is still classified above OFFICIAL. You should be able to make an FOI request, particularly as it's not clear if the review due

talkback

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Yo Ho Ho

Iryna Harpy (talk) is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec16a}} to your friends' talk pages.

History of the Yejju Oromo tribe

Hi Buckshot06, content recently deleted is the history of the north Ethiopian Oromos, Yejju Oromo tribe, that is also part of the larger Oromo ethnicgroup. Besides, most of the content added in the article is about Oromos being oppressed like this one phrase for example saying "According to Akbar Ahmad, Amharic sayings such as "Saw naw Galla? (is it human or Galla?)" highlighted Amhara's contempt towards the Oromo.". Based on Wikipedia:Conflicting sources saying "Instead the article should contain a mention that different information exists.", I think wikipedia readers need to get complete and balanced information. I was wondering if you could please not oppose the inclusion of that sourced history. I am realy worried that article being just about "Oromos are Oppressed" as always been told by Oromo Liberation Front. I am realy not on any of the sides but I think those neutral writers who wrote "Oromos also played great role in Ethiopian history and that Oromos also were masters of Amhara" should also be included. Thank you — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 20:31, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

@EthiopianHabesha: I concur with Buckshot06's revert. You may have missed this note on Aleksandr Bulatovich in Formation of modern Ethiopia section. We can't add unverifiable OR because you are "really worried", but we are attempting to summarize the other side and that individual Oromos held senior positions. Your impatience, OR and misreading of sources is not helping. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 22:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch, What do you think we should do about other writers opinion saying the Oromos ruled the Ethiopia without loosing their identity? Me saying I am African or Ethiopian does not mean I have denied my tribal identity. What should we also do about the sources saying before centralization (formation) there was continuous wars between Oromo tribes (also continues war between Amhara tribes) should we avoid this source and let people assume there was one united independent peacful Oromia state before 19th centuary? Putting an end to continues tribal wars is part of the Oromo leaders legacy? Let's not complain those old leaders did not give us democracy because even When USA nation is built it was by war and women were not even allowed to vote until nineteenth century. Ms Sarah, please do not remind me to not to compare with USA when this "According to Mekuria Bulcha, Oromo were colonized by Amhara just like European colonialists in pre-20th century period. " is added in the article comparing with European colonialism where no black African was not even allowed to rule his own tribal land, leave alone the coloniser England. Indeed, many Oromos in full blood have ruled the Amhara people and I donot know why support the censor of this kind of information. Isn't it because of the skillful leadership of the Oromo leaders that Ethiopia is now known as a peacful country (despite having the most diverse nation) unlike neighouring stateless one ethnic and one religion nation Somalia. Therfore, for these reasons I think the article should present all views and let the readers take which ever view they want to take. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 03:09, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

If you read the article carefully, it summarizes both sides, "loosing their identity" version and "not loosing their identity" version. Your attempts to drag in European colonialism, Italians, war in USA, colonizer England, so on, is unhelpful, a lot of gobbledygook, difficult to comprehend and irrelevant. NPOV means we explain the sides, we don't take a side. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 10:08, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch, I hope you have seen the content added in Oromo article saying "Amharas colonised Oromo while even comparing it with European colonialism". Don't you think that should be balanced with another experts opinion explaining how European colonialism was and that there was no single colonized Ashanti black African leading the government of the colonizer nation, England. This opinion is also sourced by reliable source [1] and before I summerise and add it could you please let me know if you find it appropriate to add this "According to Mekuria Bulcha, Oromo were colonized by Amhara just like European colonialists in pre-20th century period. "? As said my objective is just to give readers balanced and complete information in which, I beleive, what wikipedia stands for. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 11:27, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

EthiopianHabesha, WP:NPOV says NPOV means "carefully and critically analyzing a variety of reliable sources and then attempting to convey to the reader the information contained in them fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without editorial bias. Wikipedia aims to describe disputes, but not engage in them. Editors, while naturally having their own points of view, should strive in good faith to provide complete information, and not to promote one particular point of view over another. As such, the neutral point of view does not mean exclusion of certain points of view, but including all verifiable points of view which have sufficient due weight. (WP:WEIGHT).

We do not need extensive diversions into what the racial mix of the government of the United Kingdom was at the time. That's what WP:Links are for. Anyone interested in the composition of the UK government at the time can easily click through and read a bunch of different articles about the people who made up the government at the time. Of course, they were all white middle-aged men. But this is so basic and intrinsic to practically all European colonialisation that it does not have enough WP:WEIGHT to be placed within the article. Please feel free to continue to debate the issue, however, here on my talkpage or elsewhere as you wish. Kind regards Buckshot06 (talk) 08:20, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that comment Buckshot06. I am realy into convincing one another and not realy into forcing POV by intimation just like the other editors are doing who avoid to deal with the content presented and focus on the editor, being treated like I have nothing to say — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 13:28, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

@EthiopianHabesha, we need fairness and compassion towards all editors. You have conflicts with @Duqsene and others, but everyone is important. The wall of text and replies on Talk:Oromo people and Talk:Amhara people is evidence that your concerns have been considered and replied to. You are important. Duqsene is important. Every editor is important.

As I wrote many weeks ago, we have already toned down the language, because what we say and how we say is important. The chapters in the cited scholarly sources are a depressing reading (e.g. routine kidnapping and torture of children / women / men, broken families from stolen children, chains and killing of people in caravans, chopping breasts off of women who complain too much, castration and chopping limbs of men who resist too much, raiding villages and slave hunting based on the target's religion and ethnic group, routine dehumanization and abuse, etc). The wiki summary is the essential, sans-emotional overview (and none of the above).

Yes, others should not treat you like you have nothing to say. Yet, you too should not treat others or scholarly publications as if they have nothing to say. Collaborative work is essential to the wikipedia project. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:12, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch, what am saying is present views fairly. If you think it is important to include Oromos being mutilated also include Oromos mutilating others, although I do not think adding such kind of stories in ethnicgroup articles is apropriate. See these sources [2][3][4] also saying it was a custom of the Oromos to cut of the women breasts. Penis trophy (castration of neighboring tribes) to proof masculinity was another custom (ritual) practiced by Oromos and was important to get wife at that time [5]. Most importantly see this saying the Oromo Ras Gugsa [6], who ruled the Amhara people, will castrate and cut off the womens breasts who do not make allegiance to him. All those are terrifying but if you find them necessary then we could create "warfare in Ethiopia" article and discuss them so that readers get complete and balanced information, otherwise please do not present one ethnicgroup as holy & victim and demonize others. In the Oromo article you have summerised other editors contribution saying Oromos were subject to "amputation", "mutilation", "mass killed", "millions killed", "savage", "inferior", "is it human or Galla" etc as if Oromos themselves did not treat neighboring people the same way. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 23:17, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Comment: Much of that text is by numerous other editors with whom you are slowly edit warring with. The more you try to sugar coat, the more other editors such as Duqsene and Stumink will attempt to expose the bitter under layer. If you try to understand and recognize the other side, odds increase that others will too. Yes, the Galla/Oromo text is largely from me, with some sentences inserted by you. That section is "toned down" already than what the reliable sources are stating. We can't right great wrongs in wikipedia, only faithfully summarize all sides from the reliable sources. That is what admin Doug Weller tried to explain to you a while ago. Any way, as Buckshot06 notes below, please be careful with your language. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 03:42, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

@Ms Sarah Welch, my last comment is just for information, so you know that there are also victims on the other side and It's based on your last comment with terrifying stories. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 20:12, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

EthiopianHabesha, I'm frankly surprised at you saying '..I do not think adding such kind of stories in ethnicgroup articles in apropriate.' Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED; if solidly reliable WP:THIRDPARTY sources, such as recent academic journal articles, mention such things, then we would be censoring WP if we left them out. Why do you say Ms Sarah Welch is 'present[ing] one ethnicgroup as holy & demonize others'? We only write one article at a time; there are all kinds of reasons (including availability of WP:Reliable Sources) why an editor would spend a considerable amount of time working on one article, and then work on others. I am also concerned that such comments represent a WP:Personal Attack, which you may have been warned about in the past. Would you kindly please clarify what you mean, and respond? Sincerely, Buckshot06 (talk) 14:22, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Buckshot06, thanks for the questions. Why I said that is because this ".......by Amharas" is repeatedly used in the article. For example instead of reviewing multiple sources and simply summerise as "Oromos were referred as Gallas by others" in the article it is added as "Oromos were referred as Gallas by Amharas" while the truth is even Somalis, Afars, Muslims and all the neighboring people as well as Europeans also used that name in the past. Their is also a content saying "Pagan Gallas were classified as Red by Amharas" while other sources say it's the muslims who dominate the slave trade. Instead of making ethnigroup articles into just about slavery and war related history we could just move those kind of stories to like "Slavery in Ethiopia" or "Warfare in Ethiopia" articles. If those kind of information are necessary then we could explain crimes of all tribes as well as crimes by all political parties there by opening section for each of them so that readers get complete and balanced information, so that people do not get the impression that their tribe (or the political party they support) never committed crimes but others did. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 12:17, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

The question is whether such things as slavery and war related history is WP:NOTABLE in relation to a particular ethnic group. If such events are attributed by reliable scholarly sources -- the peer-reviewed journal article being at the very top -- then they belong in the article. Many nationstates consist of many different ethnic groups. Most are WP:NOTABLE and have notable histories, which should be included in the ethnic group article. Placing such content in articles that use the name of the present-day nationstate would distort the relationships of the ethnic group, which may not have been interacting with the present-day nationstate or its predecessors. Better to leave it in the ethnic group article -- and make sure all the ethnic group articles are eventually fully complete (Wikipedia is WP:NOTFINISHED.) Hope that explains why everything shouldn't be placed in 'in Ethiopia..' articles. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 13:51, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the advise. This is a long discussion, I think now you can archive it. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 19:54, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Why do you say that? Buckshot06 (talk) 22:46, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

I think we have taken a large space of your talk page. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 17:24, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Check the page size overall and this section overall; no need as yet. What I will do is create a permalink to the Yejju Oromo talkpage, as it's related discussion. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:10, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Good idea, since much of the discussion is also related to Oromo article you could also link with that article. Thanks again for the advise — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 09:28, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

I'll give you some more, plain-speaking, advice, User:EthiopianHabesha. Please understand I do not mean to denigrate your efforts, but WP works on WP:CONSENSUS. From the limited amount of your edits I have overseen, you have not been paying enough attention to others' citing of reliable WP:Sources, and, to a degree, you appear to have been overemphasising 'Ethiopianness' of articles. Wikipedia is not a forum for promoting any nationstate's agenda in any way. What we work on is what is in the WP:Reliable Sources. Please be more willing to listen to other editors, and Assume Good Faith. Please do not hold up improvements to articles when you are the solo person resisting changes. Please also remember that I'm here at any time to listen to your queries and clarifications, and I'm keen to help grow your skills to make this a better encyclopedia. Best wishes - feel free to react or disagree, Buckshot06 (talk) 09:42, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Buckshot06, I like transparent discussion. Not clear for me when you say "overemphasising 'Ethiopianness'", it would be great if you could please clarify on that. I just want people to get complete and balanced information. As said, I just do not want people to get the impression that their tribe or the political party they support did not commit crimes while others did. If you see Ifat Sultanate article, right now it's perfect because it talks about stories from all sides. I think, it's not for us wikipedia editors to judge but we will present the facts (preferably toned down) based on reliable sources and it's up to readers to take which ever they want. The article, before, draws the picture that Christians are bad people who calls Muslims as "enemies of the Lord" and that their primary job is just to chase Muslim sultans and to kill [7], while no mention that the Muslims were fighting to be ruler of Horn of Africa and convert all people in the area to Islam. Also no mention on Christians appointing Muslim Sultans and were preserving the Muslim states in the region as it is (not destroying their states) so that they rule with their islamic law, speak with what ever language they want and follow which ever culture be it Arabic or indigenous. I am not trying to be combative but I do not think saying stories from all sides should be toned down and included is "overemphasizing 'Ethiopianness'". Thanks — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 13:31, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

My point is when you said '..Instead of making ethnigroup articles into just about slavery and war related history we could just move those kind of stories to like "Slavery in Ethiopia" or "Warfare in Ethiopia" articles.' These should be related to the ethnic groups they deal with instead of necessarily the Ethiopian articles; Ethiopia may not have existed at the time the events took place. Also, why do you believe events/"stories" from all sides should be toned down? Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED. Buckshot06 (talk) 14:11, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

If no censor then I think stories from all sides should be treated equally based on NPOV. Right now in the article there is no mention of the Oromo inter-tribal fighting and how they also fight with their neighbors while these reliable sources say these [8][9][10]. Weather the region was peacful or full of war we should not censor history and let people assume that the region has been peacful before 20th century. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 22:10, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch (talk · contribs), would you like to comment on the sources raised by EthiopianHabesha about Oromo inter-tribal fighting and fighting with their neighbours? Buckshot06 (talk) 09:28, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Buckshot06, I do not want to fight over this issue with Ms Sarah, I will make a proposal on this and other unbalanced stories in the articles talkpage and we will discuss about it. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 10:42, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

This is my talkpage and I would like her opinion. Can you explain why you continue to use the term 'stories'? Buckshot06 (talk) 10:52, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Stories as in "unbalanced stories" [11]? — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 15:13, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

@Buckshot06: The article already mentions intra-Oromo and inter-ethnic group conflicts and enslavement. Several times, with phrases such as "pastoralist Oromo enslaved settled Oromo", waves of wars and struggle between the groups, Oromo rulers selling Oromo slaves, etc. Since EthiopianHabesha is going in circles with their arguments, let me explain this a bit more: We face two challenges in Oromo people, Amhara people, Somalis and other Horn of Africa related articles. One of relative balance (NPOV), and another of verifying the context (WP:V-RS). By relative balance, we mean "representing fairly proportionately"; in other words, the discussion of Muslim Oromo vs Christian Oromo vs Pagan Oromo vs etc infighting should not unfairly dominate or be emphasized in the article if Amhara-Oromo and Somali-Oromo and other wars were more or equally significant. By verifying the context, we mean these articles are sensitive topics, and reading the context in several reliable scholarly sources is important. We just added Somali-Oromo part. More to come. We also need to keep article size in mind (I really want to see culture and society section expanded, because there is a lot more to beautiful Ethiopia/Oromo/Amhara/etc, and Africa in general, than wars and slavery). WP:NOTFINISHED, as you put it above, you are spot on. EthiopianHabesha: please read Buckshot06's comments carefully, not some predisposed self script. Frankly, there is not much more to explain. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 12:11, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch, I am into describing every ethnicgroups in positive light. As you said Oromos do have interesting cultures and languages that other neighbouring people be it Amhara or the rest of the world can learn from and adopt. Oromos cultures is also my culture and also all Ethiopians culture as well as African culture. There are also many Oromos who made differences in Science and all other aspects of life. But if you think it's important to add war and slave related history then we have to treat everyone equally. All humans dead for what ever reason (for wrong or for right) are equal and it should be known why they died. Oromos do have interesting cultures but there were also some bad and terrifying cultures in the past that people should know about. Please note that many have died in the past as result of bad tradition (ritual) and we do not just censor that and just document about "Arsi mutilation". Thanks — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 15:40, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

@EthiopianHabesha: If you want to propose with explaination why Arsi mutilation-related sentences be deleted from Oromo people article, or that Other tribes/ Amhara/ Adal/ others be also added, do so on the article's talk page. With WP:RS and page numbers. Others and you have been edit warring about that text. Please note that the sources you mention should explicitly state and conclude what you are alleging. No WP:OR and WP:SYNTHESIS, which is a big persistent issue with your editing, and something you again with Milkias and Giyorgis sources today. I will now restart ignoring you on the talk pages unless you make a good new point that you haven't made before. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 16:06, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch, I have tried to dicsuss with you politely and if you could respect me and try to lesson to me then we are doing good for what wikipedia stands for. I am from Horn of Africa, giving me more advantage to understand the politics of the region because I follow news related to the region, and also because I interact with people from the region. First of all, the sources used to support "Arsi mutilation", "third of the population died", "Millions killed" and "mass killings" are clearly biased and DID NOT say precisely X people died or mutilated on this side while Y people died and mutilated on the opposing side. Secondly, they were all written by Oromo writers (whom are known as supporting Oromo Liberation Front). Thirdly, no other neutral European scholar document about these, I mean no source that looks like unbiased did say that. After considering all these factors if you still support the inclusion of these controversial claims then you might need to consider the inclusion of all the sources I listed under Final Proposal which almost all are written by neutral European writers, and their work looks unbiased, and the way the writers present the history is with an impartial tone. — EthiopianHabesha (talk) 10:34, 24 January 2017 (UTC)