Talk:Islam/Archive 16

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New Additions

I would like to make a few more addition to the article, Here is what i want to add:

• The word "Islam" on Arabic language means "submission". Islam means the submission of one's will to the only true god worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim".

• Muslims Believe that all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah to Mankind on Earth have the Same One Basic Message ( Laa Illaha Illa Allah ) in arabic language, Which means ( No God Worth of Worshiping But Allah ) - simple like that, Although those Prophets came with different Books, Practices and Methods of worshiping.

• Islam is the religion that was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of Allah on Earth, and it was the religion of all the prophets and messengers sent by God 'Allah' to mankind like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elias, Jesus and Mohamad and many others, Peace be upon them all.

• The most important message of Islam is the Absolute Unity of Allah 'God' - that there is only One Supreme Being who has no partners and is not dependent on anyone or anything. He is the creator of everything and the whole Universe is under His Own Control. Since the total submission of one's will to Allah represents the essence of worship, Islam is the worship of Allah alone and the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than Allah. In essence, Islam calls man away from the worship of the Creation and invites him to the worship of the Creator.

• I also wanted to make a new external links section called "Invitation to Islam" and add some useful sites to it like those with the proper title & description:

http://harunyahya.com/

http://islamtomorrow.com/

http://islamvoice.freehostia.com/

http://www.islam-guide.com/

• adding those links under "Directories":

http://www.2muslims.com/directory/

http://www.islamicport.com/

http://www.islamicfinder.org/

http://www.islam.tc/ali/

http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion_and_Spirituality/Faiths_and_Practices/Islam/

let me know what you think?

Kind Regards,

--ColdFire 17:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe most of what you suggested above are already discussed in the article. -- Szvest 18:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC) User:FayssalF/Sign

I took a look over this talk page and i couldn't find anything related to it.--ColdFire 18:43, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, none of the above is discussed here. Why do you people lie blatantly? (216.99.60.250 22:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC))

Please avoid uncivility and stop trolling (re 216.99.x.x). ColdFire, have a look (use your search tool of your navigator):

• slam is an abstract nominal derived from this root, and literally means "submission to 'The God' (Arabic:Allah)".
• Muslims believe that God revealed his direct word for humanity to Muhammad (c. 570–632) through the angel Gabriel and earlier prophets, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Muslims believe that Muhammad is the last prophet, based on the Qur'anic phrase "Seal of the Prophets"
• Shahadah

Main article:Shahadah

The basic creed or tenet of Islam is found in the shahādatān ("two testimonies"): ašhadu 'an lā ilāha illā-llāhu wa ašhadu 'an muhammadun-r-rasūlu-llāh — "I testify that there is none worthy of worship except God (Arabic:Allah) and I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of God.". -- Szvest 22:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

THIS IS A BIAS ARTICLE DOE NOT MENTION ALOT ABOUT THE CHRISTIANITY VIEWPOINT. IF YOU LOOK UP CHRISTIANITY IN THE SEARCH BLOCK ON THIS WEBPAGE...IT SAYS ALL KINDS OF INFORMATION ABOUT islam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.0.148.24 (talk • contribs)

I guess most editors haven't yet realized that we should be writing all religion-related articles from a Christian perspective. BhaiSaab ^talk 11:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Indeed... This website should be renamed to Christopedia...Seriously, afterall, the overhelming majority of editors here are Christians.. I would say 95%.

• I don't think so. there's a difference from being christian and being from a christian country. Zazaban 01:16, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Message to the anon. Please note that this is irrelevant here. If you want to discuss that please refer to Wikipedia Talk:Village pump. You may also assume good faith. -- Szvest 12:59, 15 September 2006 (UTC) User:FayssalF/Sign

Ok, what about addiding the new directories links and those websites i mentioned above as new resources?--ColdFire 06:55, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

NO. Those are dawa links, and invitations to particular strains of Islam. If we include them, then every other sect/shaykh/whatever is going to demand links. We would have several thousands links. That's why we link to the DMOZ directory, which is a directory of links. Make sure that all your sites are there. Zora 07:54, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Those are not invitation to particular strains of Islam at all, those are high quality and very informative sites i picked from the web to add as additional resources thinking they will be for the benefit of the Reader which inviting to Islam on *General* they talk about the Basics only like Pillars of Islam, Famous Converts, Miracles of Islam in Science, Islamic Guide..etc and one of those sites are the official site of "Harun Yahya" a famous islamic scholar who have a reference on the article already. anyway thats ok i got your point that if we add more sites other webmasters would ask for links too, or maybe because some websites have ADS on them, Regards. ColdFire 14:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

ColdFire, i believe Zora got a very valid point. Another point is that we have plenty of articles under the category:Islam and most of them must go there. This is the main article and it should discuss generalities. -- Szvest 14:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC) User:FayssalF/Sign

If we add the above external links, it is only fair that we add links to critics of islam too. (for example Daniel Pipes, Ali Sina, etc. We need to keep this article unbaised, meaning we should not have links to pages inviting people jo convert to islam, unless we also have links to pages written to tell people to leave islam.--Sefringle 21:18, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Important Information

Due to the lack of attention, I decided to bring this up in a seperate heading:

FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World according to Guinness World Records 2006 Edition. This is indeed a very credible and reliable source. What do you people think?

(216.99.56.61 23:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC))

I'm inclined to agree, but then we get into the realms of debating whether it is due to the rate of converts/reverts OR, a higher birth rate in muslim populations, OR something else. Then we can ask at what point does the Guinness book of records consider a person to be muslim. Could be interesting. 86.133.72.79 00:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

"FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion" - Perhaps, but so is Buddhism, Falun Gong, Atheism and Wikka (see Fastest growing religion). So, by which method did Guinnes determine who's fastest? And do you have a quote/link? --Frescard 04:40, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Whether it is due to the rate of reverts, etc OR a higher birth rate, the fact does not change: Islam is recognized as the fastest growing religion under the Guinness World Records (216.99.58.51 16:24, 16 September 2006 (UTC))

That statement (Islam is recognized as the fastest growing religion under the Guinness World Records) would be true and verifiable. 86.133.72.79 22:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll try it once more: How does Guinness define "fastest growing"? As you can see in the Fastest growing religion article there are all kinds of definitions. And how did they come to that conclusion? While I may trust Guinness with personally verifying how long someone's fingernails are, or how far somebody can spit, I have my doubts that they went and established these kinds of population statistics themselves; so those numbers must've come from somewhere. But where? What is the original source? --Frescard 22:58, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

OK here is entry from the Guiness World Records 2005: Special Anniversary Edition

"Fastest growing religion: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. In 1990, 935 million of the world's population were Muslims; however, the estimate for January 2004 is 1.4 billion or 23% of the world's population. Although the religion originated in Arabia, in 2002 around 80% of all believers lived outside the Arab world." Page 97.

Guiness World Records is indeed a reliable source.. lol (206.126.82.232 01:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC))

...For 2004, maybe. Homestarmy 01:21, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

What is that supposed to mean, please elaborate.. (206.126.82.232 01:43, 17 September 2006 (UTC))

The entry lists a time peroid between 1990 and 2004, therefore, the maximum range where Guiness claims that Islam is the fastest growing religion stops around january of 2004. It's 2006 now and in the fall, the entry is about 2 and a half years out of date, and when it comes to numbers concerning members of a religion, alot can change in that amount of time. Homestarmy 01:51, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The entry might be 2.5 years old in the text book, but trust me, the fact still remains unchanged. Muslim population numbers are still growing :) (206.126.82.232 02:12, 17 September 2006 (UTC))

Unfortunently for you, "Trust me" is OR. From what I have read of Muslim culture, I have little doubt that the population is indeed growing, but if some reports i've read are true, some imam-type people are starting to become worried about how Christianity is moving upwards through Africa, and a population can switch religions after all.... Homestarmy 02:21, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Christian people will be 0 at the end.. so that doesn not matter :) (216.99.61.54 19:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC))

That doesn't make much sense, wherever people go in the afterlife, they don't just stop existing. Homestarmy 01:48, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

But why, will Islam be number one religion? Think, reasons are first always what Allah wants, also because: a Muslim has a truth (Qur'an) so is certain, unbelief does not have truth as definition and is NOT certain of any own ideas only to attacking the Muslims. Not only this means,using words and ALSO pictures. Because the Qur'an Surah al Fath ayat 29, tells Allah made Muslims to be strong crops at bothering the nonmuslims. Also this says, Muslims, be good kind to one other Muslim and bad kind to an unbeliver, but non-Islam does NOT have this rule. This wants to help Islam in the long run.LionofTruth 05:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

For instance, specialists think that Islam will be the dominante religion in Netherland after 20 years.

Yes, I have heard that too which apparently has turned the Dutch people's dreams into nightmares.. . lol (216.99.61.54 21:51, 17 September 2006 (UTC))

About islamic conquest

The Historians like Massignon and others has made some statistics about christian and islamic conquest:

islamic conquest has engendered about 392 victims in the two camps.

croisad and Religion's war engendered 10 M victims in central Europe.

thanks

What camps, and how did they possibly break down all the hundreds of years of the expansion of the Islamic world, Darfur, Mogadishu, and who knows what else down to exactly 392 people? Homestarmy 15:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello Homestarmy, the 2 camps mean both muslims and non-muslims, while the banner of croisad was (christianization or slaughtering) the banner of muslims was (no coercion to the religion), for this reason islam was accepted largely in asia (india-Indonesia-Malaysia..) without blood. thanks

Oh. Well then why is Hinduism still in India, and what about the Judea area, and northern Africa? And I'd still like to know how exactly 392 people on the dot were recorded as being "endangered" (I assume that's what you mean.) by Islam, was there some running tally? Homestarmy 17:53, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

AS OF SEPTEMBER 19, 2006, THE PAGE IS CURRENTLY VANDALIZED; it is locked and no one can alter it. The main page has deleted ALL previous information and instead has a hate-filled message of bigotry which the owners of Wikipedia have allowed to remain up. This situation *MUST* be resolved as long as Wikipedia does not wish to offend Muslims with this blatantly vandalous bigotry. - EDIT: It now seems to be fixed, thank you. Blacksun1942 18:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

A lot of people should be aware of anti-Muslim bigots as well. BhaiSaab ^talk 17:29, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, that was an oddly gross hasty generalization there anon.... Homestarmy 17:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean, please elaborate (216.99.61.54 00:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC))

A Hasty Generalization is a logical fallacy, it essentially is when one presumes that because something is true of a certain (usually small, but in this case arguably large) part of a group, the same thing is true of all members of that group. For instance, "All the trees near my home have squirrels living in them and pestering me, therefore, all trees in the entire world have squirrels, which annoy people to no end. Therefore, we must destroy all trees!" would be a hasty generalization, coupled with a bad concluding idea because of it. Homestarmy 00:57, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, why did you delete that anon's post, that's generally not a good thing. Homestarmy 00:58, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Who keeps deleting all previous discussions

I know it is someone who recently visited this site. Whoever is doing this needs to stop. It is wrong.--Sefringle 21:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Please read about the archiving process. No one is deleting material; it's still accessible. BhaiSaab ^talk 21:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Ismailis

I read this article and read nothing about Ismaili Muslims who follow the Aga Khan, in the context of Islam. There are a lot of them and I think they should be mentioned under Islamic denominations. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Studge (talk • contribs) .

In the Islam Info-Box, click on 'Branches of Islam', then go to Shi'a Sects & Ismailiyah, which then brings you to the Ismaili page --Frescard 04:38, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Although their status is quite contentious, Ismaili's are considered by many to be Shi'a. I was careful in writing the Shi'a section on this page so that everything written in that section would apply to twelvers, fivers, and Ismailis. So no, they are not being ignored. BhaiSaab ^talk 05:38, 19 September 2006 (UTC)