Talk:DragonForce

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Double Article

Isn't there already an article of Dragonfocre? (DragonForce). If so, this page should be considered for deletion, but the infobox is nonetheless useful. User:Rick50000 22:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Speed-Power Metal?

What's the reasoning behind this? DragonForce may be fast, but they have little to do with speed metal. This change was truly inappropriate. I think I'm going to revert it. Indy Aaron 18:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I just had to change that a few minutes ago I would say they are very fast but still have little to do with the Speed Metal Catagorisation, I personally would call them Power metal with SOME characteristics of Progressive Metal because of the changing intricate riffs and the 8 minute long songs. Anonomous User 14:24 07/08/2006

Simply put DragonForce arn't speed-power metal I changed this to their self appointed genre "extreme power metal". I'd like to point out thought that they aren't "extreme" for growling lyrics or blast beats. It's more to do with blinding speed on guitar, I point this out in the discussion of their musical style. --Jeff24 16:23, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, a lot of people do not realise that fast playing does not neccesarily equate to Speed Metal. I think it only makes sense to list DragonForce as a Power Metal band, with a mention later in the article of their refering to themselves as "Extreme Power Metal," which is after all a made-up genre. --Radagast1983 08:46, 08 August 2006

You guys have completely lost touch with music. You're way too concerned over genres and labels. Can't you just enjoy the music?

The point of an encyclopaedia is to be concerned with labels. If this bothers you then you're reading the wrong site.

I agree with the above, but still, this is an encyclopaedic article - people who read about music in a book can't exactly just "enjoy the music". --Dayn 04:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Move

Since the actual spelling is "DragonForce", the name of this article should be adjusted to reflect that. Does anyone know offhand what the procedure for doing this is? I don't remember where the info is on the site. -- Zarggg, 00:15 1 July 2004 (UTC)

It's called "Move page", and its location should be onscreen somewhere (depends what skin you're using). You can ask questions at Wikipedia:Help desk. Happy editing, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 00:21, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Bloody hell, I should have figured that out. Thanks. :) -- Zarggg, 00:23 1 July 2004 (UTC)

Their official site says "DragonForce - Official Site - www.dragonforce.com" and that capitalization is used throughout. --Keolah 04:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

POV

This article reads like a fan page in its current version. Can we have some NPOV, please? -- The Anome 10:41, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it does. Could you be more specific? Better yet, point out ways to improve it. Supersonic^ 13:44, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think he might be referring to the first section, but damned if I can see what's wrong with it. The only thing I can think of is word choice, but that seems farily harmless to me. Zarggg 19:43, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Made some changes; could we get a review on this again, please? Zarggg 19:48, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the page should be reviewed, as it does read like a fan page. "Jesus Christ himself reportedly said "Find these Dragonforce fellows and cannonize the fuck out of 'em!" after hearing Sonic Firestorm for the first time." Would be a good example of this. Evoloution of sound should be looked at too. MichaelRatcliffe December 6

I made several changes to fix the article. The "Evolution of the Sound" section is, however, hardly salvageable. I would remove it completely. --Sn0wflake 17:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good choice Sn0wflake, I am going to take out the references to Jesus MichaelRatcliffe December 6

I have, after being advised by Sn0wflake, removed my previous submissions about "Similar Bands" and instead have given informaton on Dragonforce's own self-glorifying genre, "Extreme Power Metal". This does seem to abide by NPOV rules as it is factual. Also the "Evolution of Sound" section was subject to vandalism, but as it stands currently, it is quite factual. If we cannot use even the slightest bit of description in articles then there won't be much information to go on Wikipedia! For example, saying they create a bombastic sound, as it states, is in my eyes acceptable as it is factual since Dragonforce are hardly melancholic. I do realise the rules of NPOV, however, and should this debate be carried on then so be it! However please do not outrightly revert the page as many small re-phrasing of sentences have been done by me to give the article a higher standard of English (eg. the image caption.) Thanks! Soulhunter123

I have made another NPOV edit in the Biography section, removing ", this is also why Dragonforce is more technically proficient than many power metal bands, because of their extreme metal history. " which sounds pretty self-aggrandizing and is probably hard to back up factually. -- Bdoserror 18:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Who the hell reverted the musical style section? It shows complete bias, and should be toned down to bare technical terms (which even then are unnecessary). ReignInTiki 08:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Use of Italics

Is the apparent emphasis of words like bombastic and thundering in the "Evolution of Sound" section necessary? Bdoserror 17:18, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, not really. --Sn0wflake 20:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About "extreme" power metal

My edit summary may not have been very clear when I removed "extreme" (particularly since I accidentally pressed 'enter' by mistake before having finished it). "Extreme power metal" is not an existing genre; see List of heavy metal genres for a list of genres that can be used on Wikipedia. We shouldn't go around coining new genres, or this will get way out of hand with each band having a different genre. Unless I am mistaken, DragonForce invented the term "extreme power metal". Therefore, I see no problem with explaining this further on in the article, but not in the first line of introduction. Tankard call their music "alcoholic metal", but the introduction line doesn't read "Tankard is an alcoholic metal band".

What is more, extreme power metal redirects to the DragonForce article. It is therefore useless to wikify it, and someone browsing the page will just think "what's extreme power metal? and why isn't there an article for it?". So, as I say, it's useless in the introduction.

The WikiProject Metal has been trying to standardise heavy metal genres, so let's stick to the ones in the list of heavy metal genres. Thanks. IronC hris | (talk) 17:25, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine, all I wanted was an edit summary. --Aleron235 17:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, I understand. Take care. IronC hris | (talk) 21:06, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the whole 'extreme power metal' thing should be dealt with in a style similar to the H.I.M page. HIM invented the term 'love metal' to describe their music, but it doesn't credit it as the actual genre, just that the style of music is 'often referred to' as such.

Ditto with KMFDM and "Ultra Heavy Beat". JD79 20:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok some people need some tutoring on classifications and musical genres. Clearly DragonForce are power metal there is no dispute on that issue. The problem lies where the band itself has given themselves a new genre "extreme power metal". I'd like to point out thought that they aren't "extreme" for growling lyrics or blast beats. It's more to do with blinding speed on guitar (I point this out in the discussion of their musical style). I think grounds for a new genre being invented stem from a band showing that they are different in musical sound. As a power metal fan for a very long time now I am fluent in most power metal music, trust me...DragonForce ARE extreme power metal. Since the band, record company and majority of fans recognise this I think that the genre "extreme power metal" has been established and we have a pioneering band in that genre. Please DON'T put DragonForce as speed metal or power metal or anything ridiculous. They are extreme power metal. Thank you. --Jeff24 16:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I read somewhere, or perhaps saw in an interview, that they call themselves "extreme power metal", because they incorporate plenty of other styles of metal into their mainly power metal sound, hence "extreme".--Dayn 07:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Obviously the genre they consider themselves to be of should be discussed, but I think it's a little early to be calling them "an extreme power metal" group in the heading. How would anyone know what that genre is unless they were already familiar with the lone purveyors of said genre, DragonForce? I agree that extreme power metal is a fine description of them, but I'm not sure I think it should be used officially. --The Shrike 16:56, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You guys might wanna take a peak at the band members' profiles to ensure conformity with genres. Lovok 14:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The band and the fans can call themselves whatever they like, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and as such must use verifiable, consensual terms. This is not the case of "extreme power metal". Some members of WikiProject Metal have been trying hard to homogenise the genres; we can't start calling bands by the terms they make up for themselves, or otherwise Manowar will be "true metal", Running Wild "pirate metal", HIM "love metal", Tankard "alcoholic metal", Finntroll "troll metal", etc. And if nothing else can convince you, please read WP:NEO. IronC hris | (talk) 20:19, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect?

Is the redirect from "DragonHeart" really useful? I think it should go either to a disambiguation page, or to the film (Dragonheart), if anything. I mean, there are probably very few people (any?) who are going to look up "DragonHeart" with the intention of finding the band, and it is therefore pretty useless. IronC hris | (talk) 20:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced criticism

The "Critiscism" section that was recently added contains some dubious affirmations, one of them being that their lyrics are considered by "many" to be "over-commercialised". If that is so, may one provide examples to back up his claim, as I really can not consider their lyrics as over-commercialised, fantasy-inspired lyrics can hardly be seen as "commercial". You are thinking of Limp Bizkit, holmes. When DragonForce start singing about all their money and bitches and how nobody oughta mess with them, you can rightfully say that they are over-commercialised. --Voievod 23:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fucking exactly. Their lyrics may be corny (i still love them) but not commercialized. AshTM 05:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dragonforce commercialized...lol. They sound unlike anything I've ever listened to, and basically takes me back to my Nintendo days as a kid. It's just fun music to listen to, not every freaking song has to have some deep meaning to it. DF is a nice, fresh breath of air. -- Dan N.

Remove the cleanup notice?

IMO since last time I saw the Dragonforce article it's been drastically cleaned up and there's no need for the cleanup required box. There could still be improvements of course but by this point I think it's just a distraction.

Criticism needed?

I am no means a Dragonforce fan, but this section seems to be started by someone who simply disliked the band and wanted to get his opinion out. Dragonforce is the only band I've seen on this site with a criticism section. I can think of atleast fifty bands that I've seen recieve "criticism" from other popular bands, but their sections remaim clean. It's no coincidence that Dragonforce is the only one, someone has an agenda to make them look bad. I say remove it completly.

Hmm... I'm inclined to agree. None of it's sourced or referenced either, so it's all unfounded basically. --Dayn 22:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Dragonforce an educated musician's opinion

I'm not sure who started the comments in this forum but I enjoy everything from classical to power metal, whatever genre you can think of I probably like it unless of course it's rap because you see I like music and these two things "music" and "rap" have very little in common. I think that Dragonforce is an incredible band and I'm going to give my feed back on them. I just learned of their existence about 3 weeks ago from my cousin who knew that I've been playing guitar for 15 years and counting and also that I love many genre's (from classical, to jazz, to extreme power metal) of music so he suggested them to me. I've been a musician since the age of 12 and am now 30 and have studied various instruments, including voice (I was in 2 different vocal jazz groups for a period of 3 years and took voice lessons for over 6 years) and music. I've taken several college classes on musical theory, which teach nomenclature and classical theory, progressive theory and many more things that take quite some time to understand thoroughly, I even got a minor in music. I have to say that Dragonforce although aimed for the younger audience is by far one of the most talented bands of our time. Although the musical progressions themselves are not that incredible what they do harmony wise is amazing especially at the speed they do it. The technique used in every instrument in the band is tops, few if any people I know can perform with such skill and again I've been playing guitar for 15 years and have associated with great musicians all my life. The singer is extremely talented and the melodic combinations of guitar solos is unrivaled by any other metal band in history and the keyboard is also incredible beyond anything I've heard before (Through the fire and the flames) plus the drummer has to be close to if not the best speed drummer out there. I went to their concert in Salt Lake City Avalon Theater 9/16/06 it sold out and was the best concert I've seen in years. They play better live than their recorded albums. While I was at the concert there was a moment when the audience all stopped moshing and stood in a stupor of thought gazing up at the stage while Herman Li shredded through the most amazing harpegios I've ever heard live in The Valley of the Damned (solo) for at least 2 minutes there wasn't a sound in the midst of the previous chaos of mosh pits just the sound of Herman slicing through the silence. Herman Li and Sam Totman both the guitarist's in the band on several occasions during very amazing and difficult harmonized solos appeared to be having conversations and even laughing about each others comments. These guys are defiantly beyond good they are incredible and watching them live is the best way one can discover this. These guys make previous speed metal bands look like oldies from the 60's and any true lover of the metal genre's will love them. I still love tons of old hardcore thrash and speed metal bands but these guys have truly earned there own genre (extreme power metal) they have broken a completely new sound that previously has not been rivaled or accomplished. There has been nothing as hardcore as these guys before and they actually sing on key which adds to their level of talent which far excels previous metal bands of this type of sound and the guitarist's even harmonize vocals while playing ridiculous 32nd note rhythms tapping included. It's actually quite cool to be able to sing along to a memorable melody at a thrash metal concert, instead of a low grumble because the vocals are nothing but the sound of a sick dying old guy trying to cough something up. As for me I feel one of Dragonforce' most amazing songs for melodic (keyboard, guitar, and vocals) accomplishments also speed drumming is "Black Winter Night" from the Valley of the Damned album. I say kudos to Dragonforce, what an amazing accomplishment actually deserving a new genre in a day when we had almost already created every genre one could possibly think up. Keep on rockin the free world! Peace.