Talk:Ferdinand Marcos

GOLDEN BUDDAH

WHY IS THERE NO MENTION OF THE GOLDEN BUDDAH?

NPOV about "People Power Movement"?

Should I rephrase the part that says: This so-called "People Power movement" as This People Power Movement? The current way the sentence is written appears to imply that few acknowledge it as a "People Power Movement". Edward Sandstig 13:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Philippine national self-reliance programs?

Did he really conducted a Philippine national self-reliance programs including the research and development for their local automobile, with the acquisition and discoveries the secrets of nuclear and rocketry?

Yes, the Bagong Lipunan which was added to the article.

I was in the Philippines in all of the 21 years he was the ruler. I've never heard of self-reliance programs, nor research and development for automobile, or nuclear, etc. If he did they kept it to themselves.

Ilocano Ancestry

It says Marcos was the second president of Ilocano ancestry. Who was the first? Forgive my curiosity. I happen to be an Ilocano descendant. Gerald Farinas 18:29, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The first one was Elpidio Quirino who was born in Vigan, Ilocos Sur. Soup 16:20, 4 Jun 2004

Marcos is not a war hero

The medal of valors that he usually displayed in public was just a decoration he made for himself.

I remember the pre-Marcos regime, our books in school have taught us the exploits of Yay Marking, a revolutionary icon in my time. During the first term of Ferdinand Marcos, he commanded to change all books and delete Yay Marking from it. As of the present, all exploits of Yay Marking is now in Marcos credit.

The name Maharlika of Ferdinand Marcos's Bagong Lipunan program is derived from the name of the most notorios bandit group of the WW2 era.

As a summary, at the time when Yay Marking's group were guerillas, Marcos and his men were bandits. But when Marcos became president, he took all the credits and delete the Yay Marking name in history. Then in the 1980's he wanted to change the name of Philippines to Maharlika, the group that he once belonged.

Re: Marcos is not a war hero

He was not the war hero his hagiography, commissioned by him to writer Hartzell Spence, presented him to be. He did, however serve in World War II until Japan took control over the Philippines. His exploits as a resistance fighter was exaggerated. He was at most an opportunistic resistance fighter, only surfacing when the going was good for their side. On a side note, his father was executed for collaborating with the Japanese.

yeah, but you miss my point. Let us put YAY Marking's name in history.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

new comment from different writer:

Yay Marking should definitely be remembered as one of the strong Filipino women that contributed significantly to the Philippines during that time. she did in fact lead guerillas during WW II and was very compassionate to her guerillas and fought side by side. but also, let it be know that she joined Marking's Guerillas and help to build the small army to 200,000 + guerillas both Filipino and American. Brig. Gen. Marking and Yay Panalilio met during the war and developed a relationship that lead to the marriage. they fought and loved both for each other and their men. Yes....Yay should be in the history books. And, behind this strong woman was a strong man, General Marking. Without each other, they may have not made the history books. i will agree that Marcos has misrepresented himself in history. I have heard General Marking talk about Marcos' misrepresentation. Thank you for mentioning these names in this history forum.

sincerely,

mark marking grandson

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This is hardly certain....

But the one thing that remains for sure is that no other Philippine president, past or present, made history like Marcos did.

Roadrunner 02:35, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

20 years is a long time, but YMMV.

Soup

Marcos as a war hero is undocumented and is based on heresay. When he became president, a number people who were identified as war heros denounced Marcos as a Japanese collborator. As son as I've checked out sources, I'll have documented files before offering a different POV and possible have this section reworded. VodkaDry 1 July 2005 16:48 (UTC)

It was his father who collaborated with the Japanese, as written in James Hamilton-Paterson's book America's Boy. Mariano Marcos was subsequently executed after the war amidst a witch hunt of collaborators, which included President Jose Laurel (who was acquitted).

According to the same book, his martial exploits were just overly exaggerated (remember Hartzell Spence's "For Every Tear a Victory" IIRC) and greatly misrepresented. What's for sure is he did serve, and he did survive the death march. The rest is shady bollocks.

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HE SURE DID TRY TO RE-WRITE HISTORY! HE EVEN CLAIMED TO SCORE A PERFECT SCORE IN THE BAR EXAM!!!! IF HE HAD NOT BEEN TOPPLED FROM THE THRONE OR IF IMELDA WERE THE DICTATOR, WE WOULD HAVE A TOTALLY REVISED HISTORY!!! HE WAS GOING TO NAME ALL THE IMPORTANT STREETS, THE AIRPORT, HIS PROVINCE OF ILOCOS, ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURES (PICC, ETC) AFTER HIM, IMELDA, HIS PARENTS, AND CHILDREN-- I WOULD GUESS HE WOULD CHANGE THE PHILIPPINES' NAME INTO THE 'REPUBLIC OF MARCOS'! HIS NAME SHOULD GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE VILEST VILLAIN EVER!!! MAY HE ROT IN HELL!!!!!!!!!

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chinese

how do people know he is chinese?

Sterling Seagrave's book "The Marcos Dynasty" (1988) claims that Mariano Marcos isnt his biological father but a certain Judge Chua. The book also claims that there isnt any Chinese blood in the Marcos side of his family. His mother apparently is a Chinese-mestiza. so that makes him 75% Chinese. Carl9331

Marcos looks like his mother, Josefa Edralin. It must be noted that Seagrave was a known anti-Marcos journalist, too.

The Worst and Most corrupt President in the Philippines

I'm sorry to say this comment, but he was corrupt and a try hard. Marcos was no good as a President, he stole millions to billions of Pesos from the Filipino People, "tried very hard" to make the Philippines a communist country and even wanted to change the country's name to Maharlika, but failed. How stupid can this guy get!. I don't know how he managed to stay in office for 25 years or so. I doubt, that there must have been a lot of political - match fixing and bribery. Gonzalo (UTC), August 20, 2004, 7:30 p.m.

New comment from different writer:

Yeah, he was corrupt. I mean, he put my grandfather in jail. My grandfather was the mayor of Sorsogon, and when he opposed Marcos during that period of Martial Law, he threw my grandfather in jail! Really corrupt!! No Duh!!

Well, for me Ferdinand Marcos was corrupt and so was Cory Aquino. But I like Marcos more than Cory. Philippines economy was much better in Marcos's time - till Cory took over. In fact, it became the number one rice exporter in ASIA. Also, Marcos has built so many buildings that all filipinos use now.. these are the : Folks Art Theatre, Ali Mall, Manila Film Center, PICC, Cultural Center of the Philippines. Well, whos idea was the LRT in manila to be built? Once again, it was the Marcos's. Cory didn't like the idea of it bcuz she thought it was just a waste of money. well, who's using it right now? non other than, the poor people of the philippines.

Other new comment: I'd say GMA is worse. She didn't do anything good, compared to Marcos. And what so bad about a name change? We still sound like a Spanish/Portugese Colony.

to 196.203.128.90

Where did you source your edit? I believe it definitely had a case for POV, and until you provide a CREDIBLE source for Marcos trying to call for martial law again (which is preposterous), as well as your allegation that the events resulting to his ouster was a total lie with him calling on to crush the insurgency, i dont think that your edit would do the article any good. One, check the live dialog on TV which was added to the EDSA Revolution article, in which Marcos clearly refused to give Gen. Fabian Ver the order to fire was transcribed as it happened. It was sourced from J. Hamilton-Paterson's _America's Boy_, which in turn sourced it from the Philippines Sunday Express of March 2, 1986 quoted in Remigio Agpalo's biography, Ferdinand E. Marcos. Please take time to check your sources before editing and flaming away. Until you do, this article will be reverted to the previous edit. Thank you so much. I will give you this: You are right on the Bataan Power Plant, but i believe it should be mentioned on Marcos' downfall.

My cousin was one of those members of the military (I won't mention which dept) who was ordered to attack and crush the insurgency. The TV showed him as "benevolent". He was the biggest hypocrite-(my cousin's word, not mine). After the TV spectacle, he gave the order.

Really?

Do you really think reading two books (one of them citing a blatantly pro-Marcos and Marcos-controlled newspaper), and watching a video qualify you as some keeper of mystic knowledge? Truly? Well then I'm afraid that by comparison, my credentials will be rather weak: I just happened to have been there in 1986 as a reporter for the Manila Times. Yes, I saw that act where Ver asked Marcos for permission to attack the civilians. Had you been there, you would have known that though Marcos made a big public show of reluctance in private he did order the tanks to go in. That was the whole point of Edsa wasn't it? Civilians stopping tanks (actually Marine assault landing vehicles) on the corner of Edsa and Ortigas, where Robinson's Galleria is now. But you don't need to take my word for it, check it out in Karnow's book, Bonner's book, Burton's book, and Carlos P. Romulo's book. Second you'll just have to take my word for it (but don't worry, I'm currently digging up the relevant articles from the archive and should have them soon) that Marcos did indeed declare Martial Law. That was around the time his TV broadcast stations were captured so he had to go to radio (the government channel suddenly started playing cartoons), and was finally reduced to using a telephone -- where he was interrupted by a party line. Sometime in that sequence he tried saying he was declaring Martial Law, imposing a curfew, blah blah. "POV"? "Preposterous"? You should really try to come up with some sources to match your condescension. I'm sure I'll be impressed. Regards as always comment by 210.213.247.92 21:45, 4 December 2005 UTC

Well, pardon me all over the place. I am sorry. Seeing that you once worked for an anti-Marcos newspaper during the Marcos regime, as well as citing from blatantly anti-Marcos sources, I understand. The point here is that Marcos was a controversial, polarizing figure and it will be extremely hard to write a fair and unbiased article that gives two sides to the story, not through EDSA-tinted glasses nor Martial Law tinted glasses. I'm calling for something that includes two equally represented sides, not a one-sided account by a Corysta, and not a one-sided account by a loyalist. It is fair to say that it is inevitable that the EDSA revolution demonized Marcos, but it is unfair to throw out everything that Marcos accomplished (economy, infrastructure, stability), warts (human rights abuses, corruption) and all. Thats why i believe in a fair account. I believe that airing out opinions and vendettas should be reserved for the talk pages, not the articles themselves. One more, it is a sweeping generalization that everybody believes that Marcos was the worst president the philippines had. I hope you see where im coming from and what my point is, because im not looking for a war or something here. Nobody's here to shit on someone's credentials, thats why i apologize if i did, but my point is fairness to both sides. Grievances, feuds and vendettas have no place for encyclopedia articles. Regards. comment by User:Soup 06:48, 5 December 2005

There's a fine line between being "impartial" and a "denier" but it can be easily spotted. To write an article saying Marcos was a "controversial" figure without mentioning what he was famous for -- gross human rights violations (on which court awards were made), large-scale looting ( which the Swiss government itself acknowledged, by returning $685 million) and destruction of institutions (as evidenced in the coup attempts between 1986 and 1990) -- strongly suggests an agenda to gloss over and whitewash. I smell the same sort of "impartiality" which fuels some people who say Hitler "allegedly" persecuted Jews. Until you mention the most salient points of Marcos' dictatorship (there, did that hurt to say it?) I'll be right here making sure that it's mentioned. By the way, I'm eager to read your sources for your insistent assertion that Marcos was good for the economy.

Marcos did declare Martial Law. Read it in Sandra Burton's "Impossible Dream", p. 402. Ah, but oh yes, anything that even breathes Marcos had a whiff of criminality about him is to you "anti-Marcos". Who's sweeping now? cheers comment by User:Carunungan 07:36, 5 December 2005

Both of you, please sign your comments by typing four tildes (~~~~).

Calling Marcos "the worst president the Philippines ever had" is a point of view. See the policy on maintaining a neutral point of view. Nobody is denying that Marcos did some bad things (to put it lightly), but we need to write the article in a more objective and neutral tone than you're approaching it, Carunungan. I certainly don't mean we should make it 50% good things and 50% bad things... what I mean is we should have unbiased writing that presenting conflicting views without asserting them. If we present the facts fairly, then they will speak for themself, and we should be careful not to state that any particular view at all is correct. Coffee 01:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

210.213.240.194 02:20, 5 December 2005 (UTC)To make it "more objective", as you put it, then I can rewrite the paragraph to read "Three things make Ferdinand Marcos different from any previous president." However, not to mention those three things (human rights abuses, looting, destruction of Philippine institutions) or to preface them with "alleged", when there is plenty of legal, anecdotal and historical proof to hand, is to purvey a story so "neutral" it becomes essentially a travesty of the facts. I would also like to see more specific details on the "good" that Marcos did. As well as more details on human rights abuses and looting, which after all have become synonymous with the Marcos regime.

It is possible to do a line-by-line critique of the biography as currently written, and provide the footnotes to back it up. Just for example, to assert that the economy under Marcos did well until the Aquino assassination of 1983 ignores the fact that the economy was already in bad shape before that -- so much so that Central Bank governor Jimmy Laya in 1982 publicly overstated the country's foreign exchange reserves and was found out. Also, even as distant but credible an observer as Singapore Prime Minister Lee Kwan Yew remarked on the Marcoses "flamboyant frivolity" in a time of "desperate poverty." I trust you see what I'm getting at.The piece as it was originally written is inadvertently or deliberately misleading.210.213.240.194 02:20, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I do believe it's important to maintain a kind of moral clarity even when striving to be objective. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_hitler. It does not gloss over genocide, war crimes, etc. None of that "Hitler was nasty but at least he built autobahns and created the Volkswagen" foolishness. Gareon 12:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Family

Is there any info about his family? Children/grandchildren? --84.188.147.22 02:33, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Marcos did not bomb EDSA because there were no ammunitions and bombs!

Col. Carlos B. Manalo, chief ordinance for bombs and ammunitions release, never signed the papers authorizing the army to use the military weapons and materials to bomb the EDSA (Philippine Daily Inquirer (Feb. 21, 2006). That's the one major reason why Marcos said "No" when asked and summoned by Ver to attack the rallyists in EDSA. So the claim of Marcos "statemanship" post big question mark. (Condorhero)

The Worst Thing to Happen to the Philippines

Marco is one of the worst things to happen to the Philippines!!! Did you know that before Marcos declared martial law the Philippines was one of the most economically developed countries in Asia, but because of his greed, the Philippines is now has the on of the worst economy in the world. He not only ruined the Philippines but he ruined many families, generally the Lopezes. The Lopezes are one of the most important families in the Philippines, running numerous important companies such as ABS-CBN, MERALCO, BENPRES, and a lot more.

I have to conclude that i hate Marcos and so do millions of people. The Marcoses can kiss my ass.

• Sore loser. 24.10.111.114 08:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

RE: Worst thing

What is your basis for the Philippines being one of the most economically developed countries in Asia before Marcos? Oh, yeah. ABS-CBN is kind of substandard...wait...theres oligarchy again.

I blame GMA and the idiot before her for the economy.

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We only get the government that we deserve. I guess we deserve all of them @#&*#@ presidents. The Philippines is hopeless. I say, Let's just bomb the whole country to smithereens.

Discussion on editing

I dont care how much you all hate the guy, or if he imprisoned a family member.

Just know that this is Wikipedia. Neutrality is of utmost importance. Don't rant, or insult here. This is not a forum. No one really cares how much you hate Marcos.

Marcos helped the country. You read the article right? He had intelligence. I want to be like him, minus the nepotism, avarice, and big headedness. Personally, I think he is a good study(not model) subject if you're in politics. I'm of Ilocano descent, and I'm proud to be that way. I'm proud that Marcos was one of us. I don't give damn what others think.

Now, what I really want to talk about is the overuse of the word "crony". It carries a negative connotation, which would not fit into Wikipedia's neutrality standards. And I don't want it being replaced by something like "henchmen".

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I'd be ashamed to be called Ilocano if I were you.

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That was rather uncalled for, sir.

Weasel words!

This article is full of weasel words, particularly the section on his legacy. How about some citations? Who are his critics, supporters, apologists, detractors, etc.? This is a classic example of the problem of slipping in unattributed opinions.

Japanese ancestry

This article says Marcos is of Japanese ancestry. Is this ancestry enough to place him in the 'Japanese Filipino' category? Thanks Hmains 00:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

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First time I heard he had Japanese ancestry, but he looked Japanese alright.hmmmmm, maybe an illegitimate child of Donya Josefa and a Jap soldier. BTW, why do his biographies refer to his mom as Donya, she was just a teacher. ylangylang.67.38.22.120 13:42, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

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The Japanese can have him, for all I care.

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Imelda wants Marcos corpse buried at Libingan ng mga Bayani. I've heard some people say that they wanted it to happen, so they could dig his corpse up and throw it into the stinking garbage which it deserves!

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Now, now, the man is dead. Give it a rest.

Marcos paid Manuel Elizalde Jr. to fake the Tasaday as a ethnic group?

I am a newcomer, however, I think this statement needs a reference. When I went to the link on the Tasaday, it seemed to indicate that the "Tasaday Hoax", was itsself a hoax. The article alluded to cororate interests attempting to get the Tasaday declared a hoax so they could gain access to their land and it's natural resources. Where did the author get the information that "Marcos paid Manuel Elizalde Jr. to fake the Tasaday as a ethnic group?"

66.192.126.3 06:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)Bear

"Mild streak" to his strongman's image  ???

Torturing prisoners is not "mild streak". Imprisoning senators for years and years is not "mild streak" . Rampant killing of the non-privileged is not "mild streak". I don't know what your definition of "mild streak" is.