Talk:Knuckles the Echidna

Article length

This article is ridiculously long. Is all of this necessary?

Yes, yes it is. Listen, I love SomethingAwful as much as the next person. Hell, I was delighted when I saw it as the ALoD. Now, I'm not into sonic or any of that junk, but just because Something Awful points out that it's long doesn't mean it should be lengthended (spelling?). I always go to SA, but hate the people that take their words as gospel. If it's informative on the subject, leave it as it is. If theres useless amounts of info on it, then yes, shortening it would be a good idea.EAB 05:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree... the bigger issue is those articles needing to be lengthened. The correct balance between article length and importance can be reached without destroying already-culminated knowledge, regardless of how unimportant some believe that knowledge is. 24.16.53.132 21:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Master Emerald and Kneecapeon

By the way, the Master Emerald is more important to Knuckles than the Chaos Emeralds. He's the guardian of the Master Emerald, not the Chaos Emerald. He probably hardly even cares about the Chaos Emeralds! For example, when the Master Emerald pieces in Sonic Adventure 2 flew out of the spaceship, he became furious and took over the ship. Knuckles does not really care for Chaos Emeralds, so quit making it so important to him, please!

Also, why is Kneecapeon a half-brother? --anon

how come knuckles used to wear a hat? Where has the hat gone! The dissapearance has angered many hat fans. I want answers - from quiche

Offically, sonic x is classed as an anime and comedy. I hope that answers your question. I am afraid that i can not answer the question about the hat-- from Pickled Dalek

i thought knuckles was 16...

Well, just look at the Sonic game booklets. And when has Knuckles worn a hat? --anon

Knuckles wore a hat in the Archie comics, and also in Sonic the Hedgehog: The Movie. And he's 16 in Sonic X. That's probably the most reliable source outside of Sega itself. --Some Girl Called Harley.

Secret Appearance

What does everyone think to this section? Could it be merged with another area of the article or simply removed, since there's an appropriate article for Sonic & Knuckles. Also, it's not technically a secret, considering "Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic the Hedgehog 2" is mentioned in the S&K instruction manual. Thoughts? --L T Dangerous 03:32, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Kneecapeon is a half brother, because he was only born to one of knuckles's parents. His mother is kneecapeons mother, but kneecapeons father is wynmacher.

Are you trying to say that Knuckles's mother divorced (or her husband died) and then married someone else? --anon

Yes, Lara-Le (Knuckles' mother) split up from Locke (Knuckles' father) because the two were always arguing and he upset her many times --- not to mention he abandoned her and Knuckles and disappeared to them because of the guardian tradition that the youngest has to fend for itself, Lara moved on and married Wynmacher, whom she had a son with called Kneecapeon. Locke still loves her though, apparently.

Okay, I get it. --anon

Games come first, then other stuff. I'll change the article to reflect the standard we've been using in other character pages. --DavidHOzAu 10:39, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Fan Sites

How come there are no links to fan sites? I own a Knuckles fan site. I'd like to add a link. ~ Timper

Wikipedia is not a link exchange. Please respect it. Wizardry Dragon 00:03, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

It only links if the website is a reference. UnDeRsCoRe 03:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Quotes

As much as I hate removing something that a lot of people seem to have added to, I'd like to remove the "Quotes" section, as it is very useless.

Most of the quotes fail to provide any insight to his character or history. A lot are hardly quotes at all; I dare someone to give me a valid reason that "Shaa!" and "Uh-no!" are actually worthwhile quotes.

On top of that, none of the other sonic characters (nor most videogame chars that I've seen) have such sections, as videogame characters of their time (before every game had a script) didn't have much dialogue.

So - I'm going to remove it. Feel free to debate.

SonOfNothing 23:25, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Don't delete it! Just move it to Wikiquote, okay? It's at the Sonic the Hedgehog section. --anon

I think we ought to bring the quotes section back, but fill it up with some of the more worthwhile quotes... wait, no ive changed my mind. but they ought to print the "Whew... I think my heart stopped!" I have no idea why, but it cracks me up. also the person who wrote that about rouge ought to know that the reason he likes her, is because she makes him laugh, and because she is fellow treasure hunter... So Ner! from Winston

But shouldn't it go in Wikiquote? Wikiquote is a place for quotes! --anon

That is, indeed, what Wikiquotes is for, so go ahead and do that. If you can fill a page with good, worth-while quotes that aren't just "uh!" and "what?", then please, by all means... SonOfNothing

knuckles comics

Could somebody please tell me how knuckles dies and comes back to life? I have read his page, the funeral ( Knuckles- the afterlife) But he is alive and well in later issues. please explain. Thank you. Dalek

Sonic the Hedgehog #124 has a back-story on Knuckles' decision to come back to life. Issue #125 is when he makes his actual re-entrance, but he isn't quite quick enough to save Sonic from sacrificing himself. Knuckles lost the ability to fly because of the process, a side-effect which was in many ways unnecessary and tended to waste everything Archie and Sega had done up to that point developing his character. (Note: he may have since regained his flying ability, however I am not too sure because I can no longer afford to keep getting the comics any more.) --DavidHOzAu 05:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

thanks david! Poor knuckles. isn't it sad when locke dies in hospital, and knuckles starts crying? Why does locke die? IS ANYBODY ACTUALLY GOING TO EVER ANSWER THIS QUESTION? HOW DOES LOCKE DIE!!??

Knuckles regains some of his Chaos powers when he transforms into Super Knuckles whilst defending the Master Emerald from Hunter during the liberation of Angel Island. - Sh@z@M

Love Life

Whoever typed that stuff about Knuckles and Tikal, please don't just put your opinions in this article. Also, you should try to have your facts straight. For one thing, Tikal isn't really one of the last echidnas, since she is from the past. Another thing is, I've looked on multiple Fanfiction websites, and found that Knuckles + Tikal isn't nearly as popular as Knuckles + Rouge. The "The Knuckles' Tribe Girl" thing didn't mean anything either, because it means she is from the same tribe as him. And finally, it is not official in any way that Knuckles and Tikal are a couple. I'm not tryingto insult you, I'm just saying that you should stick to the facts.

Dreadlocks

Actually, although they resemble the hairstyle, they're actually quills much the same as sonic's. The echidna is an actual mammal (monotremes to be exact. A primitive egg laying mammal.) Echidnas look something like a cross between an anteter and a porcupine. Likely chosen as Sonic's rival as both Hedgehogs and Echidnas are quilled mammals.

Perhapse a link to the echidna article would be apropriate for this article since unlike hedgehogs echidnas are not so well known.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echidna

Gliding Ability

While the article states that Knuckles can glide by "trapping air under his dreadlocks", is there any factual basis for an Echidna's ability to glide? Perhaps they have skin flaps like a flying squirrel? Or is it just a game mechanic, such as Sonic's speed?68.198.120.115

Yes it's a game mechanic...A spikey ant eater wouldn't be able to actually fly...EVER.--86.133.43.29 11:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Let's face it though, not many game characters actually share the traits of their representative animals. The Babylon Rogues don't even have wings. - Sh@z@M

Unless of course, it had a few million years of evolution to play with.--Centurion Ry 22:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Archie Knuckles Article?

Sonic the Hedgehog has an article based on his Archie Comics chracter. I believe that Knux ought to have one as well. There is a lot of backstory in there, given that Knuckles is the only other main character who actually had an enduring series of his own.

I think that this should be done (I would probably make a mess of it myself though). I am sure that others agree. - User:Sh@z@M

Even though I strongly dislike the Archie comics, it is an interesting proposal. TMNT Donatello 07:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. Sonic got one since he IS the main character of the comic. The others should not get one when it can easily be merged into the characters article. UnDeRsCoRe 03:17, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Knuckles did however have a series that outlasted all of the other secondary serials. Sh@z@M 18:53, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Knuckles Images

Warning: i can´t speak english, if my gramatic is very unreadable, plese, i'm sorry!!!!

Hi, i'm user in the Spanish Wikipedia. Here, is illegal to use images "fair use", as the Knuckles images. What can i do ?

Contact me in "Usuario: Mr. X" in Wikipedia.es

Super Mode issues

Ok...it seems there's an edit war going on here. It's time to settle this once and for all. We seem to be having an issue on Knuckles' status in Sonic Heroes. It's quite interesting how the edits being made to say he's not super conflict with other information in the article. I can only assume that some folks don't think he is Super because he didn't change color, correct? I want to at least confirm this before moving on. Grandmastergalvatron 15:43, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Color as nothing to do with it as it is merely embelishment, Knuckles never turned Super, as if he had turned, he wouldn't need Sonic's "bubble", "barrier" whatever you want to call it. Also the most commom "proof" is said to be in the filename, which has been said to be "sk" just like Sonic's is "ss". Now, that is in my opinion and thought a mere way to distinguish Knuckle's normal entitie, aside from the Knuckles "bubble" entitie. The "s" could mean many things, like stating he was part of Team Super Sonic. Until official confirmation is made, "Super Knuckles", and btw, "Super Tails", haven't made an appearance since Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 3 & Knuckles respectively.Czin 20:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

But if Knuckles did change color then you wouldn't be saying all that jazz. The sole argument against Knuckles being super is that he isn't pink and that the power came from Sonic. Well, you must remember that Knuckles staying pink is an archie thing, and archie canon doesn't count in the games. In the games, his primary color is RED as it is the darkest shade of this form (just as Sonic's was yellow and Metal's was gold). The fact still remains that Knuckles demonstrates all the powers of a super form and his power surpasses that of Super Sonic. Nothing other than a super form could do that. There are no secondary super forms. Either you're super, or you're not. Also, look at the team blast. The formation symbols appear behind the characters as to say that they are the ultimate form of that formation. How could a secondary super form be the ultimate power?! The whole point of the game is team work. For them to not be super would be contrary to the games's message. About that "s", if it's not "Super" what's to stop it from referring to Sonic? No doubt "ss" is Super Sonic. So if "sk" makes knuckles act super, then surely it must mean his is super. To dispell those other things, the team identifier is stored within the animation file (it's an archive), and for all three is "Super". Also, the model for the auras are stored within Super Sonic's model. Tails' and Knuckles' auras, and all textures for them are called "Character Ball". Remember that Super Sonic had the same type of barrier in Sonic Adventure and yet he was still Super. Now Knuckles has one, and has the abilities of a super form. Since he never changed color like Sonic did, then that's all that is needed for him to be super. The chaos emeralds affect diffrent characters in different ways as seen with Gmel, Chaos, and Emerl. Knuckles is no less Super than Sonic. Grandmastergalvatron 15:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think he turned super, not because of his color, it's because of the bubble. The bubble, SUper Sonic's bubbble, gave him the powers, he didn't turn super. And besides, he was not as powerful as Super Sonic. Well, that's my POV, if you think otherwise, that's your opinion. And to be honest, It seems as if Super Tails and Super Knuckles were dropped. Not from canon nessecarily, just, they were forgotten. UnDeRsCoRe 20:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

You just gave me more proof of how it is YOUR view of things. "The formation symbols appear behind the characters as to say that they are the ultimate form", this is clearly your view of things. In the games he flashes Hot Pink or whatever you like to call it, "The whole point of the game is team work" this is the ultimate truth, and each one of them as a unique ability to contribute in said team, Sonic's most valuable "team work" was to help his friends fight alongside him. And if a bubble is a indicator of Super Form, then Tails was Super, but we all know he needs Super Emeralds, so until any official statement is made, it is pure speculation.Czin 21:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Nothing has been revealed wheather or not they were Super or not. It seems, as you said, is pure speculation. Wikipedia isn't here for rumours or unrefferenced opinions. We could just put a small note on how it's debated. That's all. It's not such a big thing. UnDeRsCoRe 21:18, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

As for the strength thing, that is no opinion. Play the battle. If you try to break the ships with Sonic, he'll take damage no matter what. Knuckles is the only one that can break the ships scot free. Perhaps until we get some confirmation we can put in both sides of the argument? And bout the Bubble, Sonic had one in Sonic adventure...it's different now because? Grandmastergalvatron 16:43, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Knuckles is always able to detroy large, heavy, blunt objects. (e.g. Sonic Riders, Sonic Adventure 2). UnDeRsCoRe 21:28, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

That's true, but the fact that this power up of Knuckles can and Super Sonic can't shows that the power up is possibly stronger Grandmastergalvatron 21:31, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

In the meantime, perhaps we could make a subsection called "the Sonic Heroes debate" and shows the reasons for the notion and the reasons against? Also, since Super Knuckles' description is based on the 3d appearance, if we're going to count that as a separate entity then the description is going to need a serious overhaul. I'll make the needed changes but I wanna get second opinions, and possibly preview the section here in the talk page first. Grandmastergalvatron 21:38, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

A small note, not a whole secti0on devoted to it. UnDeRsCoRe 21:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd hate to get off topic from this debate, but some IP ADDRESS keeps on adding that he WAS super even though we have not come to a conclusion. So, please wait. UnDeRsCoRe 21:39, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, why don't we just put what whatever it is that we conclude there? Grandmastergalvatron 23:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't have Heroes any more, but if Knuckles is stronger than Super Sonic, can he break those crystals shot by Metal Overlord, without taking damage or becoming traped? If he can't than the only reason he can break the ships, Tails the spikes and Sonic the crystals is obviously a game mechanic to emphasize team work, creating a "Counter System" so to speak and would negate the speculation that Knuckles is stronger.Czin 12:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable but you would have to remember that's it's the character's asset that deals the damage. Knuckles doesn't have the speed required to break the crystals and Sonic doesn't have the power to break the ships. As for Tails, he seems to be quite useless as both Knuckles and Sonic can efficiently handle his portion (the latter at the cost of rings). A litlle more detail about the crystals: Knuckles stays to stationary to destroy them, they come at him before he can make contact. Sonic can use Light Attack, Blue tornado, Rocket Accel or even Homing Attack because they're all quick motion attacks. Knuckles' moves, while more powerful, are quite slow. Grandmastergalvatron 14:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, that speculation would make them all of equal power.Grandmastergalvatron 14:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Section Reorginization

It looks like we're going to count Knuckles' power up as a seperate unknown entity, so I'll probably need it's own paragraph. However, Super Knuckles' description was written with the thought of the new power being his revival. Counting it different would mean negating all of that info. The thing is, the description as it stands is actually an accurate description of what Super Knuckles would be if used in 3D. (yes, he still is red) With this in mind, should it stay or should it go. Grandmastergalvatron 14:10, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe the most reasonable would be to state that in Heroes, he acquired powers similar to those of a Super form. Wether to state if it was through Super Sonic or not is most likely irrelative, though if we state he didn't acquire a Super form per se then he would most likely be powered by Sonic, since if he was the one who gave himself powers, it would be logical to assume he would become Super.Czin 22:49, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I have now redone the entire section and left the Heroes issue open ended. I will do the same for Tails Grandmastergalvatron 03:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Protect?

Seeing as this article is the current Something Awful Awful Link of the Day[1], should this article be protected (or semi-protected)? --86.27.54.121 16:14, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I JUST reverted a vandal, and it seems there's no talk history. I suppose we're going to have to wait until he/she vandalizes another page and then report him/her for vandalism after an administrator (or established user) leaves a message on their talk page. --D.F. "Jun Kazama Master" Williams 16:17, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I have cleaned up all these unnecessary comments. Carry on. Grandmastergalvatron 18:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Unnecessary comments? I'm sorry to say this, but "I LOL'D". How can a comment be unnecessary? In a similar vein, the something awful linkage was spot on, you people really need to reconsider your priorities in writing articles. Zalle 19:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

They were unnecessary because they were spam, and not contributing to the article. Grandmastergalvatron 20:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

• Per request, I've temporarily protected the article, due to vandalism. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:25, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

why the hell is this so long in the first place? Kingcobweb 23:07, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Bored SEGA fans and an absurd preoccupation with the Archie comics. --tjstrf 23:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I, personally, don't like (or read) the archie comics. But it's here because it's about KNUCKLES IN ALL VERSIONS. And what some bad link website thinks of this article dosen't matter. WHO CARES WHAT THEY THINK. I sure don't. And as for the vandilism, some bored people get a kick out of it. Unfortunatley, most of their vandilism is far from funny. It's just plain stupid. --UnDeRsCoRe 23:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Bad link website? I suppose you aren't familiar with the site, as you would have known that it's a satire/parody website, and the daily link is a minor (though enjoyable) aspect of the site. They do have a good point, however; why is this article longer than the entries for Echidnas, The Internet, The Internal Combustion Engine, William Shakespeare, Western Culture? It's sad.--C.Logan 02:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Well if you want it to get to GA status, you're going to have to do some serious trimming. --tjstrf 23:25, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, there seems to be way too much stuff in this article which is completely unneccessary. Whysquared 04:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't believe Something Awful is forcing us to shorten articles and make us doubt our writing. Like I said, "If it's informative on the subject, leave it as it is. If theres useless amounts of info on it, then yes, shortening it would be a good idea". I haven't read the article, but I'm gonna assume that it contains a good amount of info in it. Now, let's put that much work into the other articles. It's not this article that needs shortening, it's the others that need lengthening. If it's very informative on the subject, I see no wrong with it.EAB 06:17, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopedias are here to provide clear and concise information. If the purpose of Wikipedia was to provide everything that could inform you about a subject, it'd be a linkdump.Nimmo 07:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Well said. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia - if people are using fan fiction as a reference for a Wikipedia article, Britannica Online must be besides themselves with laughter.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.97.121.51 (talk • contribs) .

I would suggest reporting all IPs that have committed recent vandalism to SA's forum admins, as last I heard vandalising Wikipedia was a bannable offence in the forums. I would also suggest people read Writing about fiction, as this article has way too much stuff in it, and practically all written in-universe.--Drat (Talk) 09:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Seriously, SA really is on to something here... take this for example:

Some fans describe Knuckles and Rouge's relationship as a "love-hate relationship". These fans assert that, while Knuckles and Rouge love each other, they know that they cannot give in to their feelings because of their opposing jobs (with Knuckles being the Guardian of the Master Emerald and Rouge as a goverment spy and a jewel thief.) The future of Knuckles and Rouge's relationship is uncertain, and remains to be seen.

Why is this even in here? "Some fans describe"? Who does? Where? Why is it relevant to the subject? This is a problem that many topics have that are potential nerd baits (e.g. Star Trek, Final Fantasy, obscure cartoons, etc.), some people just infodump their entire anal-retentive knowledge there. That would be fine in, say, a "Sonic Wiki". But in Wikipedia it's problematic, because it makes the article nearly unreadable for anybody who is not into Sonic and comes here for short and concise info on the subject. (At least the most outlandish pieces of info should be linked to, but not included in the main article.) --Agitpop 09:05, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

(again with the colons) Funny that you mention that, there actually is a Sonic Wiki Grandmastergalvatron 23:01, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Who actually wrote the majority of this article, I can't think of a single group of users to which Knuckles would be so popular. Anyone old enough to remember when Knuckles made his debut will no longer care about it now, is it from his Sonic Adventure appearances or is it fans of Sonic TV shows? Or possibly the fan fiction furries? - Hahnchen 23:17, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

It is the collaboration of fans of the series.Grandmastergalvatron 23:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Even if that is so, Grandmastergalvatron, the article still has to be impartial and unbiased, see NPOV. In its present state, the article reads too much like fancruft to belong in an encyclopedia, and it definitely needs to be trimmed down. It is not the "SA Halfwits" that want this article to be trimmed. However, it was them who brought this article to the attention of other editors. If you wish to find biased and in-depth information on every piece of information you may (or may not) want to know about Knuckles the Echidna, a google search should bring up what you're looking for. But all of that information shouldn't be on Wikipedia. Héous 23:47, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

With the aforementioned wiki being pathetically skimpy and focusing only on the games, do you REALLY think that there's any other place that's gonna provide DETAILED, ACCURATE, UNBIASED DATA on said subject?Grandmastergalvatron 01:14, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I have to agree. Frankly, I used to like the Sonic series up until the retarded 3D games started injecting your standard-issue anime cliche bullshit into every single game and made millions of fans. This article is a perfect example of one of the biggest flaws of Wikipedia: user interest in subjects. The reason this is larger than the echidna article or William Shakespeare or many other articles is that, well, Wikipedia is sort of on the internet, and on the internet you get certain... types of people. Said types of people tend to be more than passionate about their interests when on the internet, and that's when things get out of hand. That's what Something Awful was mocking, and it's really sad to see that this is no longer a stereotype. It's now fact. Fanboys run the internet. We are all doomed.Chef Brian 02:17, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Concept Mobius link broken

The Concept Mobius link is broken. Therefore, a new citation is needed or a mirror is needed. I don't know what to do it about it but I'll leave it alone so that 50 people don't try to revert it at the same time. --Robot Chicken 02:59, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Archie and Fleetway

Could someone with proficient knowledge of these continuities trim the sections as necessary?Grandmastergalvatron 00:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Trimming done...for now

I can't believe I actually conformed to the will of these pathetic vandals. Once the trimming of the Comic sections are done, this article will damn near be ready to be merged into some other article. I've also removed as much "fancruft" (what a lame word) as I could, as well as speculatory statements. I can't think of anything else to do to the poor thing. I DARE someone to find a comprehensive, unbiased collection of data on Knuckles. Grandmastergalvatron 01:23, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Actually, I've been wanting to do that for ages, but the couple times I tried editing this page I ended up getting effectively reverted a bit later. The article WAS way too long. If it takes SA pointing it out to get the article trimmed, so be it. --tjstrf 01:28, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. I must admit, it's calming to see my efforts appreciated ^^ Grandmastergalvatron 01:36, 21 September 2006 (UTC)