Talk:Wagner tuba

I wonder if the passage I just added on the sound of the Wagner tuba more properly belongs in an orchestration book rather than an encyclopedia. Also, I freely acknowledge that I am more familiar with the scores of Bruckner than those of Wagner. - Del_arte

Proper name

The name "Wagner tuba" is a misnomer. The proper name for this instrument is "Wagner tuben." But, I will admit that I'm still learning how to do everything around here. Is there a way the name can be changed?--Frontierbrass 18:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Wagner tuben" may be more proper, but "Wagner tuba" is so widely used in orchestration books and concert programmes that it would take a major campaign to get it changed (just ask the kid who tried to get Columbus Day renamed Native American Day because the native Americans were already here). Anyway, Wikipedia is not in the business of trying to correct nomenclature.

But this is an encyclopedia. Shouldn't the information contained within be accurate? This isn't just nomenclature, it's a misinterpretation of the original German; the Wager tuben has no relation to the tuba. The German word for tuba is "tuba," not tuben, which means tubes. The confusion most likely comes from Bruckner, who for some reason decided to start referring to them as "tenor tubas" (which they are not; euphoniums are tenor tubas).--Frontierbrass 03:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Just for the record, I am looking at editing the page to be more accurate, but I'm trying to look up some more sources since "this is what I've learned in the course of going to college" isn't exactly a good source to cite.--Frontierbrass 03:10, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There might be cases when there is a bona fide reason to change the name of a Wikipedia article. In such a case you move the page using the "move" tab, but then it becomes your responsibility to doublecheck "what links here." Anton Mravcek 22:22, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I added an article under the title "Wagner tuben" that redirects here. Not a complete solution, but perhaps an improvement?--Btwied 17:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That is helpful. But if we can edit to our satisfaction the paragraph on the article about why the name is a misnomer, then that should be good enough for Wikipedia. If I want to go on a campaign to have the name changed to "Wagner-Sax modified horn," that's my business. Anton Mravcek 17:19, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the German name *is* Wagnertuba (no space inbetween), cf. de:Wagnertuba. "Tuben" is the German plural of "Tuba", hence the confusion. --DerHerrMigo 21:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

nomenclature

I have played Wagner (he usually won!) and the horn players I know who played that thing always called it a "Wagnerian tuba".

I added a line in the article about rotary valves, conical bore and horn mouthpiece. I deleted the request image tag at the top of this discussion page since someone has added a photo to the article. Jeffmatt 10:00, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is there such a thing as a "request better image" tag? The current one suffers from severe JPEG splotchiness and even some pixellation... --Rschmertz 01:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stephen Caudel

I have written a brief page on Stephen Caudel who wrote the Edel rhapsody for the wagner tuba :-

Edel rhapsody

Do you think this is a valid addition to the main page or getting a little away from the core article?

In my opinion, it is a very valid addition. It shows that the Wagner tuba is transcending its original milieu, that it could become a viable instrument in musical genres besides classical and opera. Anton Mravcek 20:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good Job!

I am pleased to see an article devoted to my favourite instrument. Thanks for your work. Just to throw more fuel on the fire, I have heard/read the instrument referred to as a Bruchner tuba as well. Perhaps a reference from an orchestration manual would settle the name question. --Ambassadorhorn 00:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any reason to call it a "Bruckner tuba," much less a "Bruchner tuba." The article already has (and has had almost since the beginning) "a reference from an orchestration manual," though it does not settle the question. Anton Mravcek 22:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Modern Instrument

Could someone familiar with the modern instrument that plays the two different keys, explain how the different keys changes are obtained? It seems difficult to do in a "brass" instrument. Maybe the explanation is obvious, but it escapes me at the moment. Dr. Dan 21:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It works the same as a Double Horn (See Horn). A fourth key switches between tubing sets for the valves. It is really two insturments in one, a bit like having a double-necked guitar with different tuning on each neck. Heavy Metal Cellist^talk_contribs

second paragraph of intro

The second paragraph of the introduction needs some major work, and maybe should just be deleted. Fundamentally, the only difference between a Wagner Tuba and a horn is which way it points. There are definitely some differences in tubing lengths, but fundamentally, the only difference is the direction the bell points, and the fact that you don't put your hand in the bell. Many modern band composers get the same sound as a Wagner tuba just by having the hornists hold their bells up with their right hands as opposed to just keeping the hand in the bell.

The way the paragraph is written, it makes it seem like the Wagner tuba is a completely different insturment from the Horn. They actually have a conical bore, the use the same mouthpiece, and they are even written in the same keys (sometimes). Heavy Metal Cellist^talk_contribs

Just so we're clear, you're referring to the paragraph partially quoted below?

"Wagner was inspired to invent this instrument after a brief visit to Paris in 1853, when he visited the shop of Adolphe Sax, ... Wagner wanted an instrument that could intone the Valhalla motif somberly like a trombone but with a less incisive tone like that of a horn. That effect was obtained by a conical bore (like a horn) and the use of the horn mouthpiece (tapered as opposed to a cup mouthpiece such as on a trombone). The instrument is built with rotary valves which, like those on the French horn, are played with the left hand."

It is important to say what Wagner's motives were for wanting the instrument. And if it's not at least a little different from a horn, why go through all the trouble of inventing an instrument? Anton Mravcek 19:46, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]