Talk:Tipu Sultan

Tipu Fans

To all Tipu sultan and hyder ali fans in india, pakistun and all muslim countries, it is a known fact that the Mysore maharajs gave them food and shelter and these very cunning traitors paid back their debt by occupiying the throne and acting as defacto rulers which itself proves how saintly they were. Tipu as every muslim ruler and invader was a Muslim fanatic who waited till he rose to powerful position to convert people, ofcourse he might not have done that in mysore but other places that he invaded.

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REPLY TO THE ANONYMOUS SENDER

Oh oh oh.No will ever listen to your silly words.The maharajas were lavish spenders who spend the tresury at thier subjects expences and who did not care a shit about thir subjects.Tipu Sultan prosecuted a brilliant military career; his rule contributed a golden chapter to the history of India. Both Hyder and Tipu brought in many technological innovations, modernizing the Mysorean army and expanding Mysore's foreign trade. They also aligned themselves by and large with the French, whose French East India Company was politically very active in southern India at the time.Hyder Ali, however, never officially ascended the throne himself, believing in a religious maxim to not betray his king. After the death of Hyder Ali in 1782, his son, Tipu Sultan, also known as Sher-E-Mysore (The Tiger of Mysore), continued this charade till the death of the nominal King Khasa Chamaraja Wadiyar VIII in 1796.

If the marathas, nizams and raja of travancore had not sided with the british in 1799 then india would have been freed in the same year!

CARE TO PROVIDE YOUR IDENTITY AND USERNAME...Ah u wont! guys like u always stab from behind like traitors!

Mujeerkhan 22:55, 8 september 2006 (UTC)

tipu as a saint

tipu is regarded as a saint (waliallah) as i get information i will add up in the main page...can anyone also help me out or is there any objection.....people of all faith visit his shrine in srirangapatnam...

religious persecution

I have noted that this heading has been sourced within any proper reference and someone is using blog sites as their reference....bcoz anything can be said in blog sites...i will be removing the heading within a week if no reference is given...as indian history has never admitted to any crimes whatsover on tipu sultan....

Mujeerkhan15:20, 11 June 2006 AEST

There are at least some references i can find online (and remember from other sources) about Tipu donating money to renovate temples, giving other temples land and jewellery etc. The Sharada temple in Sringeri for one - which is also the monastery of the Sringeri Shankaracharya. A series of about 30 letters written in Kannada, correspondence between Tipu Sultan and the Sringeri Shankaracharya exist, documenting this (and Tipu even comes up with a sanskrit quote about evildoers committing crimes with a smile, only weeping when they are brought to justice for their crimes (though this was probably from one of his much more erudite and literate courtiers, perhaps his prime minister, Purnaiya). A quite well researched book by Prof. Irfan Habib documents this - http://www.indowindow.com/akhbar/article.php?article=61&category=8&issue=11 .. and this is further corroborated by an article in Tattvaloka, the magazine published by the Sringeri monastery - http://www.tattvaloka.com/publications.htm for more. What is funny is that the temple was apparently ransacked by Maratha soldiers in 1791-92 - unique twist there, hindu soldiery that consciously used several obvious trappings of hinduism including the saffron bhagwa flag, and that is venerated by a hindu right wing party the Shiv Sena, pillaging probably the most eminent hindu monastery in south india.

srs 17:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Suresh (member srs ) , thank you very much for providing valuable information.

Mujeerkhan17:00, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Please provide a cite before making edits like "Even so there is some evidence that his armies destroyed many Hindu temples in the south part of India.". Which temples did his troops demolish and where?

Comments from VS

At the Madhoor Temple in Kasaragod district of Kerala, there is a sword mark on the roof under which it is clearly mentioned that this was the act of tipu sultan.

Please refer wikipedia article on "Mangalorean Konkani" which has mentioned about forced conversion to muslim by Tipu

I could also find a lot of internet sites including published magazine articles which agrees that Tipu has made generous contributions to some temples. And yet Prisoners of war were given choice of either embracing muslim religion or to rot in his jails and most of them accepted the first option.

End of Comments from VS

Though i am from pakistan I have heard stories about Tipu Sultan since as i was a kid. Tipu saw no difference from from his hindu and muslims subjects, he contributed jewels, cash for temples. Once Mahatma gandhi said " Tipu for the great Waqfs (trusts) he instituted for Hindu temples. His palaces stood close to Venkataraman Srinivasa and Sri Ranganath temples. He specially praises the Mysore ruler for the famous saying that ‘one day of a lion’s life is better than 100 years life of a jackal.’ [1] To top it all, Tipu Sultan was also solicitous of the Brahmin clergy of his state and sought their cooperation - even requested for special prayers invoking the blessings of deities. His letters to Jagatguru Swami of Srinagrimat in 1791 are the proofs of his excellent relationship with the Hindu subjects. Some 30 letters of Tipu are preserved in the archaeological department of India to vouchsafe for this claim.

In pakistan, we respect him very much and have named a navy ship called PNS Tipu sultan [http://www.pakistanidefence.com/images/Navy%20Pics/PNSTippuSultan_AmazonClassFrigate_001_PakistaniDefence.com.jpg End of comment], monuments, roads in memory of this great freedom fighter of the sub continent. And yet some people say that he was a 'bad man'. And i have heard that indian history is rewriting on tipu sultan ( if i am right). Remember it was British and politics which divided our countries.

Hassan19:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Tipu Sultan was typical Islamic despotic a bit like Saddam Hussein but much worse. A temple smasher and killer of Hindus, this evil snake was killed by the Britsh for their own reasons.

Tipu was barbaric.

Provide some evidence in this regard but pls do not use blog sites or propoganda sites as evidence. Since I spend my schooling in mysore I have come across several hindu temples which got funds from tipu sultan ex nanjangud temple...and the best example to which i can give to is the temple in his Srirangapatnam fort itself! and also remember that a major part of his army were hindus. People like you will defenetly change Indian history.

Mujeerkhan 15:20, 10 June 2006 AEST

Care to provide documentation?—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:37, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Needs work.

Was "Tipu" his given name?—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:38, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

title

I have known that guy from history better under name Tippu Sahib. Should he be under that? 217.140.193.123 8 July 2005 16:54 (UTC)

Can the above write please provide evidence for his claims? Tipu Sultan was very much a tolerant and just ruler of his people. Had he been as you state then his own Hindu Subjects wouldn't have fought and died under his cause our of sheer loyalty. There are many baised books which claim what you claim, BUT TILL DATE they contain no actual reliable sources for this explicitly false statement. I would also request that that part also be removed from the article seeing as even Jawarlal Nehru no less looked up to his staunch loyalty to his people and his strong patriotism. He was a ruler of a type we sadly no longer see in todays 'civilised' world.

Raja

Nonsense phrase

To quote from the article: "A rocket carrying about one pound of powder could travel almost 1,000 yards. In contrast, rockets in Europe not being iron cased, could not take large chamber pressures and as a consequence, were not capable of reaching distances anywhere close to a mile." But a mile is 1760 yards, so what is being asserted here? Too Old 05:00, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Weight of the rocket is about 2kg. With about 1kg of propellant. 50mm in dia about 250mm length, the range performance is reported 900mts to 1.5 km. [2] Wisesabre 06:10, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

So the rockets had about 1kg (2.2lb) of powder, not 1 lb. With this charge their range was between 6/10 mile (900 meters) and 9/10 mile (1.5km), probably in excess of 1000 yards (6/10 mile). The contemporary European rockets possibly could match this, since their casings weighed less, so the same amount of powder might have driven them as far. The comparison is indecisive. Does anyone know of an experiment to test the relative ranges of the two rocket types using the same amount of powder? The American National Anthem refers to "the rockets' red glare" during the War of 1812, implying military useage. At any rate the article might be in error. Too Old 02:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

The battles against Tipu Sultan inspired Congreve to develop his Congreve rockets for the British Army, and their later use is mentioned in The Star Spangled Banner. The contemporary western versions (contemporary with those used by Tipu Sultan, before Congreve) were not so powerful, as this article says. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:34, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Mother’s name

Fatima is an old Arabic name (The Prophet’s daughter’s name was Fatima), so that would the mother’s given name.

Fakher-an-Nissa is Arabic and literally means Pride of Women; this would be a sort of title. You can either use her title by its own or call her: Fakher-an-Nissa Fatima bint FATHER_NAME.

I hope this information is useful, because as the article stands now it seems her exact name is not known! --DelftUser 19:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Religious persecution

Tipu seemed to be a great secularist. There is a Ranganatha swamy Temple standing right in the ruins of Srirangapatnam. Pity such a great soldier had to go like that. --Hydman 06:20, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

The bit on persecution is a straight lift from the link Tipu Hero or villain given below- verbatim, am deleting the same as it has copyvio issues. Not even getting into whether site is accurate or not. ( seems to be focused on reviewing books that support the right wing point of view). Haphar 12:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I come across this link which states that ASI found some manuscripts,which record the destruction of temples my Tipu in different places.I think we need to revise this section to include persecution of hindus,christins in kerala,goa and karnataka.[3]AumprakashReddy

Did you actually read the entire article instead of quoting a single line from it out of context? srs 10:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Plz explain what is out of context here AumprakashReddy 04:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Help wanted in dealing with a Tipu Sultan spammer

Help wanted in dealing with a Tipu Sultan spammer

Every so often a spammer using an IP address that starts with 64.228.225. spams links to bogus web sites. I have tracked down and reverted all I could find, but I'm getting a little sick of tracking all these articles on my watchlist (it's up to 263 pages by now). Can I ask the regular, frequent editors of this article to keep an eye out for this person? If they hit again, please revert the edit and warn the spammer. If you have the time, check out what other edits they made that day and revert them as well -- or just let me know and I'll do it. The link they like to add to this article is

[http: // www angelfire com/co/begumnoor/tipu2 html Tipu Sultan Article by Jean Overton Fuller].

The real point of the link is to build search engine rankings for the commercial links at the bottom of the page; the same spamdexer is linking similarly bogus pages for Hindu mystical figures and U.S. country music stars -- all with the same links at the bottom of the page.

The spammer also recently created an account, User:Borgengruft.

For more info, see:

• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive117#Link-spamming from someone in the IP address block 64.228.225.xxx
• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive118#Update -- now using Borgengruft?
• User:A. B./To do list#Abusers

Thanks for your help.--A. B. 07:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

To Tippy Fans

To Tippy sultyn Fans again, who are defending that he was not a muslim fanatic, must know that what right did hydra ali and tippy sultan had to cease power, they call people who eat the masters given food and betray them as Namak Haram, they were just that, mYsore was doing extremely well without them and did exceptionally well after them, as usual most of his armys commanders were muslims and when they defeated Travancore maharaja they converted thousands of Nairs to Islam by force, and he had links with turkey, persia and other muslim countries. About his contributions to temples, he was not giving his grandparents money but the money of the Mysore Kingdom, the maharajas money,its not a big deal, i am sure he would have given hundred times more money to the madrasaas and mosques, he built tombs and mosques in mysore using the stolen money of the Maharajas, so his fans what ever u thik he is he was definately a traitor and muslim fanatic. our so called secular leaders have made a hero out of a Villan. vgowda

Dude! care 2 provide da documentation n u can type watever ye want in ur brains but not here...Mysorebhai 20:30, 14 September, 20:30, UTC

vgowda can be more refined but he has a point. religious persecution by tipu is a well known, atleast much debated fact. also his anti kannada stance is recent news and references can be found in any karnataka newspaper of the last couple of weeks or month. and google for tipu's religious persecution am sure you will find lots of hits. Sarvagnya 01:01, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Tipu was a hero. A great man. The rabble-rousing Hindutavavadis have no other work but to slander non-Hindu people. Bastards, first learn English, then come here. I think this Sarvagnya, Vgowda and other Tipu haters are all sockpuppets of the Hindutvavadi puppet master. Don't make a mess here in Tipu article, you fools.

--Tipu Hero 04:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I learned English already. fool=flower right? phulBakaman _Bakatalk 00:06, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

To Jehadi Fanatics of Islam

First of all Mysorebhai and Tippy hero, mind ur language dont show off ur culture and upbringing to the whole world and ur jehadism and fanaticsm will not run here, truth hurts sometimes but u cannot supress the truth . Tipu was a muslim fanatic and was Anti Kannada and ur shouting here will not change history, so go and put whatever u want in Ladens or Saddam hussains articles ur current heros, ok. --vgowda

So if we can put some credible references to this it would be great. Then it can be referenced and put in the article and there would be no need to get into discussions over this. Everyone on this page is not in Karnatka and would not have access to the kannada news articles. Haphar 11:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism by Fanatics

I have provides the links to tipu being Anti kannada, but somebody is trying to protray hima as secular when he was not, and they keep writing about sringeri which has been mentioned already. --vgowda

Tipu The Greatest

Tipu Sultan was certainly the greatest. He was a great nationalist. He kicked away the Mysore kings and became a GREAT SULTAN !!!!! He brought the great language URDU to foolish Karnatak people speaking old bland Cannad language. The beauty of Urdu language floored many Cannad people and they adopted Urdu and became Muslim. Tipu didnt force anyone to become Muslim. He was a great king. He did the great work of making "Kafiristan Karnatak" into "Dar-Ul-Karnatistan". Thank him for the riches he brought to Caranatak. Otherewise what were these Cannada people doing. Poor people were slaves to the Marathas and Nizam. After Tipu, the Mysore Rajas again became slaves, this time of European British. But still Carnatic government dont make justice. Urdu should be made Carnatik state's official language. Fools, stop badmouthing the gr8 Tipu Sultan.

ALL HAIL THE GREAT TIPU SULTAN !!!! DOWN WITH THE CANNADDA FANATICS !!!!

Tipu Beat Cannad

This is not helping anyone. If you could keep running down other communities it would help. Tipu does not become great by degenerating other communities or language. I think it takes away from his greatness to have someone run others down.Let's be fact based, please give your sources for your claims, and go easy on the aggression. Haphar 15:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

No personal attacks (NPA)

Users vgowda and Tipu Hero pls dont make NPA on other members or i will be forced to make a action against you and if you folks have any issues pls discuss here instead of editing the main article. And other members please put your differences aside and also please sign in.

Mujeerkhan 20:55, 23 september 2006 (UTC)

So ridiculous that it defies reason

The very claim that Tipu Sultan is the "Father of Modern Rocket Science" is laughable.Any reasonable person viewing this article would immediately see this claim for the absurd level of jingoism it touts. As a practising physicist, I find this statement so ludicrous that the only words I can think of to describe it are Wolfgang Pauli' famous "NOT EVEN WRONG". It is pure junk science at it's finest.

First of all, the very claim that Tipu used "rockets" as weapons of war is unsourced and dubious enough to warrant a special mention in my professor's classes on spotting pseudoscience. I've seen the Doordarshan TV show by that Shahbaz Khan guy where they showed this rocket stuff and, even at age 12, I could see it for the nonsense it really was.

Tipu Sultan was no scientist and he did not have the background in basic empiricism that led the ancient Chinese to discover primitive rockets in the first place (and even THEY used it for entertaintment, not as weapons). Even if we buy into this rockets crap, it would not be Tipu Sultan who get's the credit, but the minister or worker or somebody who figured it out under his command. Do we credit Eisenhower with being the "Father of the Atomic Bomb", or do we reserve the credit to Oppenheimer, Einstein, Feynman et al?????

To make this claim is, quite frankly, insulting to the years of experimental research work that led to the first rocket engines developed by Tsiolkovsky (the REAL father of rocket science). Please provide VERIFIABLE and RELIABLE sources per WP:Reliable Sources that attest to the claim that Tipu even had access to "rockets" and then please change the title to reflect a more balanced section (assuming that you people can find any proof of this "rockets" fable).Hkelkar 06:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, User:Nobleeagle pointed me to the ref from where the "Father of Rocket Science" balderdash was plagiarized. I also found some slightly credible refs that state that rockets were used by Marathas and by Tipu (though frankly, calling those glorified firecrackers "rockets" is still pretty ridiculous). While I stand corrected about the use of rockets, the section was plagiarized copyvio from the article. Plus,calling him the "father" of rocketry is pretty laughable so I merged the section with an earlier one where the rocketry thing was better discussed.Hkelkar 07:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Dubious assertion(s)

"He was a noted linguist, patriot and a freedom fighter"

If he was such a noted linguist then what are his linguistic works? Anyone care to cite some? If he spoke multiple languages that does not make him a linguist. Many people in India were (still are) multilingual. Shivaji spoke Portuguese, for instance. Rani Laxmibai spoke Persian as well as Marathi. Did that make her a "linguist"? Hardly.

"Patriot" is a POV claim. Patriot to what? India? India as a nation did not even EXIST back then so of what was he a patriot? Mysore/Srirangapatnam/whatever? That's not patriotism, it'c called "Tribal Loyalty". I mean, is Richard the Lionheart referred to as a "patriot" even though he "loved" England? Is Charlemagne referred to as a "patriot" even though he "loved" France? What about the German Kaisers? Are they called "Patriots"??? What about Shaka Zulu? Is he referred to as a "Patriot"? Then why Tipu Sultan?

"Freedom Fighter"??? Whose freedom was he fighting for? Indians? Indians were hardly "free", living under Kings, Rajas, Badshahs,Sultans, Mansabdaars and Nizams is not "freedom".Plus, the Brits hadn't conquered the country yet so he wasn't fighting for freedom from the Brits but to keep them from taking away his kingdom. Tipu Sultan clearly had no conception of democracy as we understand it today so by what stretch of the imagination was he a "Freedom Fighter"?????Let's keep the jingiosm out of wikipedia shall we?

"We can replace this statement with "He was a notable ruler and a capable and inventive fighter". That's good enough I think. Please discuss.Hkelkar 09:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Brainwashing!

User Hkelkar has a long history of meddling with Indian Buddhist Movement, Lalu Prasad Yadav, Votebank, Godhra Train Burning, Bombay Riots, with a majority on critisicing minority communities and can be branded as a rasict, extremists and does not have a place to say in wikipedia and should be banned. Muslims and hindus see tipu sultan as a saint and people of all faiths visit his grave...have you been there, then you will understand who he was. people with a negative attitude towards tipu sultan cant swallow the truth and probably cant digest it. Naziakhanum 20:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

If you can;t swallow the wikipedia principles of WP:NPOV, WP:NOR and WP:NPA and WP:Civility then maybe you should take a break from wikipedia mr new account holder.Hkelkar 10:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

User Hkelkar if you want to edit anything on this article then please post your comments here.THNX Naziakhanum 20:25, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Sigh, another personal attack.Hkelkar

Pls dont edit anything in the article, if you have any issues then pls discuss here. And by the the i am notvandalising. I know WP:NPOV and Mr. "If you can;t swallow the wikipedia principles of WP:NPOV, WP:NOR and WP:NPA " you cant say that to me and lol that amounts to personal attack and as you said before it is not me who should take a break. thnxNaziakhanum 20:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

You made characterizations above that clearly are personal attacks. Until my issues are resolved, I am within my rights per wikipedia policy to make markups in the article accordingly. Plus, for a new user, you sure seem to know a lot about wikipedia. Perhaps an RfC might be in order.Hkelkar 10:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Many comments are unsourced in the article and I am ALLOWED to REMOVE UNSOURCED COMMENTS per WP:V and WP:Reliable Sources. AS A COURTESY, I am marking them up instead. Removing those markups IS vandalism and justification for arbitration if necessary.Hkelkar 10:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi all, i have found many articles that portays tipu as tolerant to all faiths [[4]], [[5]], President of india and Mahatma Gandhion tipu[[6]], [[7]], [[8]]. kings were unjust to thier people and sold down their own rivers for thier greed (as stated in "hindu" ) [[9]], tipu on relegion [[10]], hindus in tipu sultan army [[11]], karnataka government against minister remarks [[12]]," Tipu Sultan made lavish gifts to Hindu temples particularly to Shri Rangnatha Temple located inside the Fort of Shrirangapatnam at Mysore. Tipu was an enlightened ruler and was secular in outlook. If he crushed the Hindus of Coorg, the Christians of Mangalore and the Nayars of Malabar that was to due to the fact they wished to undermine his authority by joining the British. He did not spare the Mopillas of Malabar or the Mahadevi Muslims or Nawabs of Sawanur or Nizam whenever he suspected such tendencies among them" [[13]]. WHAT WOULD U DO TO TRAITORS who joined the british or pakistanis agianst a plot agianst india would you not destroy them.

Hindus in tipu sultan army [[14]], Sringeri was not the only holy place, which received the patronage of Tipu but Lakshmikantha temple, Narayanaswamy temple, Narasimha temple and the Gangadhareswara temple recieved donations [[15]], Subbaraya Chetty on tipu [[16]] , srirangapatam temple onlinedarshan.com/sparks_of_wisdom/rituals/tipu_sultan.htm - 11k S Chandrashekar has your answers on weather tipu was the good guy or a bad guy [[17]]..AND THE LIST GOES ON

A few website [[18]], [[19]] cant prove a thing! and remember majority (well known indians) of indians dont agree that tipu was a tryant but rather a tolerant man on all faiths.

Mysorebhai 11:50, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Your argument is irrelevant, although your sources are not and seem okay. "A few" is not outweighed by "many". Please read wikipedia policies instead of nationalistic biases.If you wish to add a rebuttal to the claim of Tipu Sultan's alleged genocidal mentality then, by all means, cite your sources in the article per WP:Reliable Sources but you CANNOT remove SOURCED edits as that would be vandalism. The opinion of the majority of Indians is also unimportant. Wikipedia is about Verifiability, and all of my edits are Verifiable. If your edits are verifiable then good. Pu them in and you will have my eternal thanks. Remove MY verifiable edits and that is vandalism.Hkelkar 12:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and sabrang and Pakistanlink are unnacceptable sources as sabrang is a Fundamentalist Muslim source (extremist, violates WP:Reliable Sources and Pakistanlink is nationalistic. Webites like Pakistanlink also says that Aurangzeb was a great ruler and justifies his slaughter of Hindus).Hkelkar 12:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Milligazette is also a fundamentalist Muslim source. Partisan and unreliable. They have made several racist and anti-Semitic remarks against Israel, making them an extremist site and not falling unser WP:Reliable Sources.Hkelkar 12:24, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Your "Institute for Objective Studies" is as objective as the Islamic Thinkers Society.Hkelkar 12:25, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

All but 2 of your sources are partisan and highly unreliable (the webindia one is okay). Surely you can find non-partisan sources like historians (instead of terrorists) and academics instead of mujahids. This Irfan Habib guy seems okay. Try to find HIS book on Tipu Sultan. That would be very good.Hkelkar 12:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I think that these sources of yours are okay and you may cite those:

http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/itihas/tippu.htm

http://www.tipusultan.org/biog2d.htm

This seems like a particularly good source.Why don;t you use this more???

http://sify.com/itihaas/fullstory.php?id=13375042 http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2002/08/23/stories/2002082300080900.htm

In controversy: http://news.webindia123.com/news/Articles/India/20060922/458542.html

These sources are good. You may use these. All other sources are practically Osama's pawns and should be immediately removed per WP:Reliable Sources.Hkelkar 12:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Lots of boiling heat for quite a while eh! the sources provided by Mysorebhai are really worth reading and can be used in editing the article. Why a sudden "Controversy regarding religious persecution by Tipu Sultan" and "Contemporary controversy over Tipu Sultan" .And Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, D.H. Shankaramurthy is a former kar sevak which are aginst islam, so the point is simple why listen to such folks who are against a culture.

Voice of dharma is also a fundamentalist hindu source. Partisan and unreliable. They have made several racist and anti-Semitic remarks against islam, making them an extremist site and not falling unser [[WP:Reliable Sources]

The points are simple as milligazette is fundamentalist Muslim source so is Voice of dharma is also a fundamentalist hindu source. D.H. Shankaramurthy remarks are against wiki. Further more u cant comment anyone as Islamic Thinkers Society as they are WP:NPOV, WP:NOR and WP:NPA. As per wiki rules users Naziakhanum must apologise to Hkelkar and vise versa and Hkelkar must do the same with Mysorebhai.I feel like a teacher who mediates between kids! I am editing the article as it was before, in the new edit will lead to many conflicts (as mojority are opposed to new addition).And if anyone is editing I will be glad to complain to wiki, which in turn will take appropiate action against users.

Mujeerkhan 00:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Er might want to read up on wikipedia policy.Criticism of Islam is not anti-Semitism as that only applies to Jews, not muslims. Don;t try to muddle the issue plz.

Plus, there are entire countries in the muslim world that massacre non-muslims and spread hate against them (Pakistan against Hindus, Saudi Arabia against Christians, Iran against Jews etc.) but many of their sources are considered legitimate because specific sources may or may not be extremist.It is clear that voi, partisan though it may be, is NOT extremist whereas milligazette clearly is extremist. Look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Partisan.2C_religious_and_extremist_websites

I have to warn you as you are making remarks against a particular relegion. Mysorebhai10:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

“ Widely acknowledged extremist or even terrorist groups, whether of a political, religious, racist, or other character, should never be used as sources for Wikipedia, except as primary sources, that is to say they may be used in articles discussing the opinions of that organization. Even then they should be used with great caution, and should be supported by other sources ”

Does anyone acknowledge voi as a terrorist group? Any government body? Any UN organisation? Interpol, UNPKF? Anybody? Now do you want me to list the number of governments and orgs that regard as terrorists al-Qaeda, Osama bin-Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinezhad, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Hizbul Mujahiddeen and all of the other people and orgs that milligazette/imc/whoever support?Hkelkar 20:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Are RSS and VHP not doing the same in india. Mysorebhai10:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Plus, voi does not evoke any hate speech whereas milligazette and others clearly do evoke hate speech, making them extremist websites. and vod not so, per WP:Reliable Sources, voi can be quoted with qualification (which I did) and milligazette can be quoted with LIMITED qualification, which they were NOT.Hkelkar 19:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Partisan, religious and extremist websites of Wikipedia:Reliable sources says that "The websites and publications of political parties and religious groups should be treated with caution, although neither political affiliation nor religious belief are in themselves reasons not to use a source".

NPOVReligious bias, including bias in which one religious viewpoint is given preference over OTHERS ,moreover VOD is a vanity press which spread extremists ideas like milligazette. one more thing i have not put milligazette in the article so there is no point in arguing about it.

See,all the other members agree to what i have said.Moreover you have edited the citation which were put forth by user Mujeerkhan

Mysorebhai10:28, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Brindavan Gardens

Is it verifiable that Tipu was involved in the construction of these gardens? I thought they date from Krishnaraja Wodeyar IV. --BostonMA 12:34, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of fact and cn tags

Mujeerkhan, in your most recent revert, you removed a number of fact and citation needed tags. That may not have been your intent, you may have simply wanted to make other changes, and the fact and citation needed tags were deleted as a side effect. I truly question some of the assertions made on this page. That does not mean that they are false, however, I would like to see some verifiable sources.

For example, it is claimed that Tipu was responsible for the establishment of a church. That would be an interest fact given that Tipu was a Muslim. If it is indeed the case, then it should be possible to produce a reference from a reliable source. Further, if he did establish a church, it would seem that the name of the church would be something appropriate to include in an encyclopedia article. What was the name of the church?

Similarly, it is claimed that Tipu was involved with the construction of Brinddavan Gardens. Again, I am not claiming that is false. However, I was under the impression that the gardens were constucted upon completion of the KRS dam. It may be the case that there were gardens existing there before the dam was constructed. But it would be nice to see a source substantiating that fact.

Please respond to the issues I have raised. Sincerely, --BostonMA 14:27, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Someone has made a mistake in editing and its not the gardens but construction of the dam "This dam is being constructed by the Khudadad Government... Any one brings under cultivation any uncultivated land and grows crops, vegetables or fruits by irrigating it with water from this dam will be given all encouragement and concessions.. the newly cultivated land shall belong to the cultivator and his descendants.. and no one shall dispossess him".-- Inscription on the foundation stone on K.R.S. Dam on the Cauvery River. [[20]]

I have a doubt on the church but will try to figure it out...cheers Mujeerkhan 14:27, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I have found a article on the mysore church [21] which was built hazrath Tipu Sultan's French allies,but it does not say the name of the church but clearly mentions why it was built and where! Mujeerkhan 12:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Jacobin club

The present ref does not say that Tipu founded the Jacobin club, only that he was a member.Hkelkar 02:31, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

In the article it clearly states as hazrath Tipu Sultan as a founding member and not a member! there were 59 early members of which hazrath Tipu Sultan was one of them. Is a there a difference between a founding member ( might be tipu as it was the very beginning of the club in mysore) and a member,could you please explain.

Mujeerkhan 12:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Rubbish. Nowhere in either of the references is the word "founder" even mentioned.Hkelkar 05:55, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

What do mean "rubbish" after the efforts i have made in the improvements of the article. oh "founder" is not given the sources which i have provide but its said in the article of hazrath tipu and we have to check who made the error. I have made so many corrections for the errors in the article and for quite a while you have been telling me whats "wrong" and whats "correct" instead of helping me out. is this the way you treat other wiki members for thier contributions.

Mujeerkhan 17:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I am perfectly within my rights to point out gibberish when it is there. Since it is a comment on content, not on contributor, it is neither incivility nor a personal attack. The fact remains that 90% of the article is balderdash, hooey, jive, bakwaas, drek,and other similar such descriptions from any number of languages that anyone can think of. What's more. the edits are colored by the worst case of religious/nationalist fundamentalism I have ever seen on wikipedia so far. Any reasonably intelligent person viewing this article would keel over and die of laughter at the obvious propaganda being touted here. This does not help the credibility of wikipedia as a legitimate source of objective information.If something is not done about this I am going to have to request for full administrator arbitration here.Hkelkar 08:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Mujeer has done quite a reasonable effort in "correcting the errors" inspite of his efforts he is indirectly being " personnel attacks from Hkelkar. As stated before Hkelkar is himself trying to colour the article with his own religious/nationalist fundamentalism. And every intelligent person viewing the article can see that Hkelkar wants to run the article on his ideologies. we should request the administrator to ban the user.

Naziakhanum13:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

"A study of similar Maratha rockets (at the Battle of Panipat[9] (1761), the British saw salvos of up to 2,000 fired simultaneously against them) at the Royal Woolwich Arsenal led to the publication of A Concise Account of the Origin and Progress of the Rocket System in 1804 by William Congreve, son of the arsenal's commandant. Congreve rockets find mention in the Star Spangled Banner." has no basis to be in the article as it is way out of the topic, any intelligent person would agree with that. The source provided says no year as of 1761 and the source has no words of "rockets" but it says fine brass gun!

Naziakhanum14:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

One more thing, what were the British doing in the battle of panipat when it was fought between marathas and the afghans. the British saw salvos of up to 2,000 fired simultaneously against them, I PRESUME they meant Tipu and not Marathas Naziakhanum14:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC)