User talk:EEng/Archive 4

This is an archive of past discussions with User:EEng. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Season's Greetings!

Ho Ho Ho!

You've been visited by the Christmas Trout.

Don't panic! Someone is just wishing you a happy holiday season and a wonderful New Year!

AlexEng^(TALK) 05:15, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Turns out midnight Mass was cancelled due to lack of interest. And after I drank all that coffee! Bah humbug! E Eng 05:18, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, here's hoping Christmas morning goes much better! AlexEng^(TALK) 05:25, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

And worst part is I'm an atheist. E Eng 05:28, 25 December 2016 (UTC) In school I was voted Most athiest atheist.

Me too! But I do enjoy Christmas time. AlexEng^(TALK) 05:30, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Please do not distract from my caffeinated martyrdom. E Eng 05:35, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Wikipedia:Lies Miss Snodgrass Told You

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A tag has been placed on Wikipedia:Lies Miss Snodgrass Told You, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. L3X1 My Complaint Desk 22:50, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

You must have missed the warnings on your talk page from various editors about learning guidelines before going around templating things. E Eng 23:12, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia:Lies Miss Snodgrass Told You

Wikipedia:Lies Miss Snodgrass Told You, a page which you created or substantially contributed to (or which is in your userspace), has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Lies Miss Snodgrass Told You and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:Lies Miss Snodgrass Told You during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. L3X1 My Complaint Desk 00:04, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

EEng, shame on you. --Miss Snodgrass (talk) 00:49, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Sam Sheppard

Did you just make a major revert error? It seems you reverted to some long ago edit of the article. Akld guy (talk) 00:40, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Oops, my fault. I've fixed it. E Eng 04:31, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

'ppreciate it, thanks. Akld guy (talk) 10:23, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Unfinished thought?

At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Armands Strazds (3rd nomination) you seem to have started a comment and not finished. See diff. Sentance starts "That someone ... " and then stops. Nfitz (talk) 00:04, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

My mistake!

Thanks for the reversion on Houghton Library. As a WikiGnome, it's been a habit of me to correct the bolded stuff in the lead. I didn't realize the lack of the "the" in this case. Should've read through it more though (and probably shouldn't have edited so late into the night). Thanks. GabeIglesia (talk) 23:15, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Being Tallest is Unhealthy

There are FACTS, and then there are opinions. Here are some FACTS:

Fact: the tallest persons in medical history all died at an age below the median life expectancy for their cohort age group.

Now, if you choose to be uninformed, that's one thing. But to make fun of others who are right, and then to convince others that they are right when they are in fact wrong, is to spread misinformation. I do realize the goal of Wikipedia is not "truth" but "verifiability." However, it should be clear that living to 8 feet tall is not something that has generally been desirable.

http://www.oneinchpunch.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/worlds-tallest-man.jpg

Unless, of course, you think the attention is worth the drawbacks. It should also be clear that there is a distinction between being "tall" and being the "tallest." No one says being 6 foot 2 inches is bad. So, enough with the jokes and take some time to respect other people's viewpoints. You may learn something. Ryoung122 22:56, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Ryoung122:

I've removed some of the excess line breaks from your message (above, apparently responding to [2]).
I didn't say that "being tallest" is healthy (or perhaps you mean healthful). Someone said, "In fact, since it's unhealthy, researchers try to limit height," to which I responded by inquiring, "Just where and by whom -- and on whom -- are these creeepy-sounding research efforts, which 'try to limit height,' being carried out?"
Despite what appears to be an attempt to evade your topic ban by not mentioning longevity explicitly, it seems to me you are likely in violation of your topic ban and I've brought that to the attention [3] of someone who's dealt with you before.
Kudos for hitting the trifecta of Wikipedia egotism: an indefinite topic ban [4], a deleted vanity bio [5], even -- and this is a first in my experience -- a deleted vanity category [6].
I've addressed the above to you only as a mattter of form -- in fact it's primarily for the benefit of third parties. Based on a review of your behavior over the years, I'm saying in advance that I will likely not respond to anything further you address to me.

EEng (talk) 06:41, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Are you here on Wikipedia to make positive contributions, or make ethnic jokes, as you did this week? And none of what you mention above is a fair or on-topic rebuttal or what I said about the category of "tallest" people, which, by the way, doesn't really fit under the category that I'm not supposed to be contributing to. As for me, it's not a trifecta of egotism: no, the problem is Wikipedia is edited by persons who are not knowledgeable about the subjects they edit. Far from being a "vanity" article, my own article probably should exist, based on outside sources. It's only because Wikipedia caters to the lowest common denominator ("anyone can edit") that it does not, since I have clearly been established as notable. Check out Who's Who in America 2012. I won't see your name in there, but you can find me.

I'm surprised you mentioned your response was for the benefit of others...clearly, it's not. It's for the benefit of YOU. You turned what should have been a discussion about facts into a "me against you" personal issue. That's called a red herring strategy: change the subject instead of admitting you are wrong and made a mistake. As many on Wikipedia allow their own egos to get in the way of the purpose of collaborative, objective, encyclopedic editing, so instead of addressing the FACT that you were doubly wrong in making fun of others for something they said that turned out to be correct (i.e., wrong to make fun and wrong to not research the issue before adding your opinion). Have a nice day.

Ryoung122 14:33, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

FYI, see the last thread on my talkpage. I'll be on an iPhone for several hours, I'll respond when I get a full keyboard. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 15:50, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Blade: You're talking about this? Honestly, I don't think any response to him is needed or even desirable. If you want to engage him don't let me stop you, but don't think you need to do it to defend me. His behavior (past and present) speaks for itself. EEng (talk) 19:24, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Just wanted you to be aware it was going on, as your name was mentioned. Merely a courtesy I extend to people if their names come up on my talkpage. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 20:52, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

And I do appreciate it. We CYBERBULLIES have to stick together, after all, if we're to maintain our stranglehold on those who struggle to bring light and truth to Wikepedia. By the way, a paper you may enjoy: [7]. EEng (talk) 22:55, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

You have officially made my day now. Thanks!!!! The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:15, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Enjoy it while you can, as we will no doubt pay many times over for it. EEng (talk) 01:11, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

"Far from being a 'vanity' article, my own article probably should exist, based on outside sources. It's only because Wikipedia caters to the lowest common denominator ('anyone can edit') that it does not, since I have clearly been established as notable. Check out Who's Who in America 2012. I won't see your name in there, but you can find me." Just have to say since I accidently discovered this thread since it was right above the one I started on this talk page, I have never, EVER, encountered WikiEgo such as this. If this person did have an article, I would ensure this paragraph was included. ~Pesco^{So say•we all} 18:32, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Privacy and no disclosure

Privacy is important on Wikipedia. If you wish to publish you university address and telephone number on your user page your are free to do so. But be aware that not everyone who uses this site is sane, and it is not appropriate for others to make any comment or allusion about another users's personal information that has not been disclosed by that user. I don't care (and I doubt any others do care about which university if any you attend), but to start to see why this can be a problem spend some time reading WP:ANI and you will soon read vitriol on that page of a similar type that you see with university dons (too Oxbridge for you?) competing for the same funding. The trouble is that if an editor starts to edit controversial pages then information about them could be a matter of life and death (they may after be Liverpool FC supporters[8]). But in all seriousness ponder on this example. -- PBS (talk) 12:18, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

You needn't explain to me why privacy is worthy of protection (whether on WP or elsewhere) and you'll get no argument from me that some here are not playing with a full deck.^[1] But that doesn't have anything to do with it, because -- don't you get it yet? -- Lockley didn't make allusion to my personal information. He made a series of jokes in which I actively participated [9]. He violated neither the letter nor the spirit of WP:PRIVACY. It's conceivable you didn't grasp that in the moment, but what you nonetheless should have grasped -- and what absolutely cannot have escaped your discerning by now -- is that I am perfectly capable of handling such a situation myself [10]. And please no lectures [11] about how humor can be misunderstood. Everything can be misunderstood, and I happen to believe that frequent exposure to humor (which draws its power from tensions among competing views of things) sharpens the critical faculties, and thereby aids discussion. Please give the sermonizing a rest now. EEng (talk) 18:16, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

^ Porch light out – elevator doesn't reach the top floor anymore – screw loose – lost their marbles – knitting with only one needle – Rolls Royce chassis, moped engine – set design by Norman Rockwell, screenplay by Stephen King.

Discussion re what one editor considers a personal attack, and another does not

~~If you don't like the section header, then delete the whole section. Don't edit my comments.~~

Struck-out hatnote was added by PinkAmpersand

Sorry, but section headers have visibility and prominence (e.g. in TOC) disconnected from their content and should needn't be allowed to represent your opinion only. For the record, PinkAmpersand's orginal section header was Personal attack EEng (talk) 04:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I won't do you the disrespect of templating you, so, let me say simply this: I don't really care how bad of a guy Qworty was, or how much he deserves to be banned. (My own opposition is simply because I think a ban to be slightly overkill... however, a lot of users I highly respect disagree with me, and I don't plan on lobbying this.) He could be the epitome with everything that's wrong with Wikipedia and I still wouldn't feel any differently about what you said. You should know better than this, and in my opinion the first admin who saw what you wrote should have indeffed you on the spot until you were willing to agree to never say anything like that again. Not, mind you, because I think you're some contemptible troll, but because blocks exist to prevent disruption to the project, and what you said was clearly and unabashedly disruptive, calculated with the maximum intent to insult. I really don't like making enemies here, so I'd be very happy if this were the last time I felt compelled to call you out for something. — PinkAmpers &^{(Je vous invite à me parler)} 06:46, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

For those who may be wondering, PinkAmpersand is referring to a comment of mine [12] in the ANI discussion on banning User:Qworty. That comment was:

Ban this revolting intellectually masturbating narcissist so he can enter the final phase of his career i.e. teaching high school English or freshman composition while fantasizing about the literary glory that should have been his. "It’s time to get over the Internet. It’s time to get over ourselves." [13] Whatever the fuck that means, you dumbass. EEng (talk) 04:59, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

PinkAmpersand and another editor objected to that post on BLP and NPA grounds, and removed it from the discussion. I would have restored it, with the following comments, but for the fact that the ANI discussion is now closed. My response is the following.

BLP doesn't come into this since no one could possibly interpret my comments as assertions of fact rather than my own interpretation of his behavior; meanwhile NPA must be applied in light of the fact that in a ban discussion we are, inevitably, discussing not content but the contributor. (NPA: "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence." -- such evidence is present in spades in this case.)

My words distilled the feelings of betrayal and embarrassment Qworty's behavior aroused in me and, I am confident, in other editors. Because such feelings were a predictable consequence of the eventual exposure of Qworty's behavior, expressing them sheds light on the heedless disruptiveness of Qworty's longterm determination to engage in such behavior, and was therefore an appropriate contribution to the discussion about whether to chuck this jerk out on his ass.

However, in light of your concerns I'll rephrase as follows:

Ban this difficult selfabsorbed person (whose behavior raises significant WP:NOTHERE issues), perhaps redicting him to more effective outlets for his talents and allowing him to reflect on his contributions toward improving the lot of his fellow man. I find his recent userpage comments unhelpful in terms of explaining his longterm behavior.

Finally, PinkAmpersand, since you dislike making enemies (as you say), you might think twice before taking on the role of Wikipedia scold. If (as, again, you say) you think a ban for Qworty is overkill then your judgment about editor behavior and appropriate responses to it is seriously flawed.

EEng (talk)

I understand that you were very angry, and perhaps understandably so, but I don't think that "he had it coming" is an appropriate defense for gross incivility. Your comments were practically the definition of a personal attack, and the fact that you refuse to admit that disturbs me far more than the fact that you said them in the first place (which could otherwise be written off as a "crime of passion"). There is no backing in policy for your "predictable consequence" argument; rather, NPA tells us

The prohibition against personal attacks applies equally to all Wikipedians. It is as unacceptable to attack a user with a history of foolish or boorish behavior, one who is blocked, or one who has been subject to action by the Arbitration Committee, as it is to attack any other user.

Furthermore, the amount of "serious evidence" (which I agree existed) is immaterial, seeing as your comments were entirely about his personal real-world life.

This is all a moot point now, more or less, but if you're unable to acknowledge the wrongness of your own actions, instead choosing to wikilawyer your way out of it, I must say that I hope you change your ways soon, before you wind up getting yourself blocked for disruptive editing. (Also, how fucking dare you use my !vote to suggest I'm not fit to criticize you? That's practically a PA in itself—deflecting criticism with ad hominem arguments.) Anyways, I'll be disengaging now. Bye. Hope I've given you some food for thought. — PinkAmpers &^{(Je vous invite à me parler)} 03:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

The fact that you have failed utterly to understand what I wrote, which had nothing to do with "he had it coming", disturbs me far more than the fact of your starting this fuss (which could otherwise be written off as a "kneejerk reaction"). To make it easy for you I'll highlight the nub again:

expressing [such feelings] sheds light on the heedless disruptiveness of Qworty's longterm determination to engage in such behavior, and was therefore an appropriate contribution to the discussion.

I'm happy to repeat that your idea that Qworty shouldn't be banned brings into serious question your ideas about editor behavior and the appropriate response to them. And juxtaposing your more recent suggestion that I should be indeffed makes your poor judgment even more manifest.

Just so you know, by the way, I'm not saying any of the above because I think you're some contemptible troll, either.

EEng (talk) 04:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Phineas Gage GA

I've failed the article. User:Eric Corbett has stated on his talkpage that if the article is passed he will take it to GAR which basically means that he has now made it his personal mission to make life hell for anyone who doesn't agree that he is the sole authority to be followed regarding article writing and formatting. I don't wish that for anyone and therefore see no other choice than to fail. This is an immense shame because the article is great and you have done a great job and Wikipedia should be be ashamed of the way you have been thanked for your volunteer work here. I am very sorry it went like this. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:59, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd like you to reconsider. As I said before this doesn't cause me any stress because (a) crap like whether et al. and so on go in italics doesn't really matter and (b) from a review of his edit history, it seems like Malevolent Fatuous (you do know who I'm talking about, right?) gets into stuff like this all the time and always self-destructs, or gets blocked, or holds his breath until he's blue in the face, or whatever. And as for John, well, he means well.

Many good people have put a lot of effort into this so far; sooner or later the article will be re-nominated, and then again there will be a flurry of attention by everyone and his brother, and again we'll have to go through this stuff. So unless there's a deadline I'd prefer we continue.

Anyway, I don't see where MF said he'll "take it to GAR" -- all I see are comments saying stuff like "we're involved in a GAR" i.e. the normal peer review that's part of the GA process. Did I miss something? Anyway, I don't have any fear of any "higher scrutiny".

If you'll reactivate the process, we can evaluate where we are. One thing to remember is that much or most of the stuff being argued about isn't even on the GA checklist. So, what do you think?

EEng (talk) 23:26, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I am glad it didn't cause you stress, it did to me. Eric said he would take it to GAR at his talkpage. You are of course right in your assessment of his usual behavior pattern. I think it would have to be renominated to take up the review again. You are right that none of this is on the GA checklist. If I re-nominate it I can't review it myself. If you do it I can, or if you like someone else can do it. I'll look at it tomorrow with fresh eyes. Let me know what you think.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:32, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Let me suggest that in the meantime you just revert your own closing with an edit summary something like "Now not so sure I want to close, want to think about it". If you don't do something like that right away then it will need a new nomination and, I'm guessing, you have to wait a while before doing that. And then, as I said, we'll have to deal with a new influx of knowitalls. EEng (talk) 00:22, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

I am sorry but the closing cannot be reverted once the GA-Bot has updated the GA nominations page and logged the fail into the article history.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 00:26, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Why don't you post at the Talk of the nom page if someone knows how to undo that manually. I'd be surprised if there isn't. I hate to press but I really don't want to lost the momentum, and since you're the reviewer you're the only one in a position to ask. I'd really appreciate it. EEng (talk) 01:39, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, I'll try. Sorry for the hassle.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:56, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

I tried but I don't think it is going to happen. You could renominate it right away and we'll take it from there. I would prefer not to review it at a second review, but if you prefer that I do it I will.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 02:12, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey, why didn't I think of this? -- you can just renominate it (I don't think I should). EEng (talk) 03:20, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

I couldn't do that, since it would imply that I am responsible for carrying out the response to the review, which I am neither capable or willing to do. I think User:CurlyLoop will be willing to renominate, and Pyrotec who is a competent and experienced reviewer whose reviews I have myself enjoyed has expressed a willingness to take over the review when he finishes two other ones. I apologize for botching this. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 13:19, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

This is a personal attack. Please don't make any more edit summaries like that. The issue you are edit-warring over is extremely trivial, and you are wrong on the MoS issue, but it's ok that you're wrong on MoS. It's definitely not ok to make personal remarks in your edit summaries. Really, please don't do that again. --John (talk) 21:56, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh please. You must be joking. EEng (talk) 22:35, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

No, I am not joking. --John (talk) 05:54, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Look, I appreciate that you think you're keeping me on the straight and narrow, but I stand by my statement, and to underscore that I'll amplify it here: the editor who used to call himself Malleus Fatuorum recently changed his "name" to Eric Corbett; however, I believe it would have been a service to the project had he, instead, changed his name to Malevolent Fatuous, because that would let editors know up front what they might be in for when he appears in any new situation. EEng (talk) 06:05, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Then you are not only behaving in a way that our community norms explicitly find unacceptable, but you are being rather unfair to Eric. You asked him here to get involved in the article, you then disagreed with some (fairly innocuous) edits he made, and now you're throwing out insults to him. Does that seem fair to you? --John (talk) 10:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Courtesy notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--John (talk) 07:09, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for extending so much courtesy, but unfortunately I was up the Amazon while all this was going on. EEng (talk) 05:42, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Electrons

Hi, I can't get an answer from physicists as to whether spacetime is curved in relation to the interaction between protons and electrons on the atomic level. I was just wondering ... Tony (talk) 06:00, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Tony1, I hope this won't dash the idealized image of me I know you've formed, but my physics is extremely weak. I'd bet User:Sbharris would be able to enlighten you, though. EEng (talk) 06:20, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

"turkey factory" Lauri Love (not important)

Hello, this is not important but "turkey factory" is what the source calls it https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/usa-v-love-judgment-1.pdf page 12 at the bottom 208.44.84.138 (talk) 22:07, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Well, plant still fits and sounds less weird. E Eng 22:11, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Okay. 208.44.84.138 (talk) 22:13, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

A turkey factory must be a real thing; where else could this year's presidential candidates have come from? Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 22:53, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

We'll have none of your shocking Thanksgiving Americanisms here, thank you. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:02, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia, so, there is obviously a nightmare decade-long POV dispute about this very question. FourViolas (talk) 23:59, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Obviously. E Eng 06:21, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

New from the essay bin

Just when you thought that Wikipedia's standards couldn't get any lower, along comes this: it turns out that we no longer require competence in our editors. While this is good news for all of the other Klinks who plan on creating accounts, it's a rather disturbing idea for pretty much everyone else. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 22:58, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

In the US, we don't require it of presidential candidates, either. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:12, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

That gives me an idea... [14]. E Eng 00:40, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

This is perfect for you!

Speaking of competence! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:38, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Why do you hate me? Listen, there's trouble at [15] (that section and the RfC immediately following) so having no idea what your position would be I wonder if you'd like to wade into the swamp. E Eng 21:09, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

I've waded, and it's going to end up beautifully. Believe me, it will be so beautiful that you'll get tired of how beautiful it will be. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:53, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm not going to name pages, but you ought to look around and see if there is anything where you can reciprocate. (Something that you already commented on, so I know that you are already interested, but haven't commented on in the last week or so.) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:20, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

You came sooo close. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:54, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Um, can you give me a hint? Is it bigger than a breadbox? Does it rhyme with orange? E Eng 23:00, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Are you sure you went to Harvard? Rhymes with "schmofessor". --Tryptofish (talk) 23:12, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

And it's not WP:PROFESSOR? I'm stumped. I even ran http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py . Please, just one more itsy-bitsy hint? E Eng 04:34, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm being so cryptic because I'm twisting myself into a Trypto-pretzel, trying not to cross the line into canvassing. So, you are correct to think of that guideline. (I cannot imagine anything else that rhymes!) Just before commenting here, I made a comment at the guideline talk page. What I commented on is not what I'm referring to here. But it deals with a related kind of discussion, and a related kind of discussion was also discussed by me, and commented on by you, higher up on the same guideline talk page not too long ago. An administrator is asking for more eyes, in order to get a clearer consensus. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:46, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Look, Crytpofish, if it's canvassing for Editor X to direct Editor Y to a certain discussion via an explicit link, then it's no less canvassing if Editor X does so via a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. But in this case it's not canvassing, because (as anyone acquainted with both of us knows) we're hardly aligned on everything, and you have no idea what my opinion on the matter will be. So, since I've tried my best once again and I still have no idea what you're talking about, will you please stop pussyfooting around and just give me a link? E Eng 21:08, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

link. At this point, I just feel embarrassed, sorry. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:27, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, very much. What you said was helpful in clarifying the discussion, and indeed was not at all parroting what I had said. I feel really stupid about the way I communicated here at your talk, so I want to get this off my chest (or my fin out of my mouth). I completely misjudged the clarity of what I was saying, and I had made my first comments assuming wrongly that it would be clear. I never intended my exchange with you to grow into such a back-and-forth, but it kind of took on a life of its own, making what I originally intended into a much bigger deal than it should have been. Not my finest wiki-hour. OK, glad I got that off my chest. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:29, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Fret not, and see right. E Eng 23:38, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

I just cot-ed that discussion at the AfD, but please understand that I wasn't finding fault with your comment. Just felt it was time to stop. But you asked me a valid question. My answer is that I don't expect things here to be any better than or different from the rest of the world. But I still don't have to like it! I suppose one could say that I'm not too fond of the real world, either. And as for your mention of pricks, that really does bring us right back around to the original topic of this talk thread, doesn't it! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:41, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm disappointed and yet relieved that the project goals do not include expanding the use of the word "bigly" to as many different Wikipedia articles as possible. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:08, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Kinda makes me nostalgic for "nucular". --Tryptofish (talk) 23:51, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Many people are saying that Trump refers to his penis as "Mr. Bigly". E Eng 00:43, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

For ten bucks, you can send him a bigly surprise! Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 18:40, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Colonel. We can always depend on you to maintain the discussion's standards. E Eng 20:00, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Well, it's rather easy to do so when the standards are borderline pun-ographic images of housepets. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 20:13, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Surely you know that's what I meant. E Eng 04:34, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Motion picture rating system

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Motion picture rating system. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

There was an attempt a while back to provide a rating for this talk page, but it was unsuccessful. Apparently, it was impossible to provide a rating because nobody could reach the end; whenever somebody came close, the page began to reproduce itself, leading to much despair among the ratings board. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 21:06, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Prep sets

Please don't edit a DYK prep set while the "inuse" tag is in place. I put it there because I like to build the whole set before saving it, and having intermediate edits done by others in the interim really makes things most difficult. Thanks. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Cwmhiraeth, sorry, there are so many templates and warnings and editnotices all the time there that I just didn't notice one more. REMOVE THIS MESSAGE WHEN ADDING HOOKS TO THE QUEUE The queue is empty. When the hooks are added they MUST be approved by adding

The hooks below have been approved by a human (E Eng) and will be automatically added to the DYK template at the appropriate time.

to the top of the page; the bot will not update unless this is added. Remove this message when adding the hooks. DYK queues: 1 • 2 • 3 • 4 • 5 • 6 • Queue clear Next queue: 4 [update · Purge] (edit · history) DYK prep areas: Prep 1 • Prep 2 • Prep 3 • Prep 4 • Prep 5 • Prep 6 • Prep clear E Eng 12:52, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

That's OK. :-) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Crooner

"Crooner" is not slang per the Merriam-Webster dictionary.
"Crooner" is not slang per the American Heritage dictionary.
"Crooner" is not slang per the Oxford English dictionary.
"Crooner" is not slang per the Collins English dictionary.
"Crooner" is not slang per the Macmillan dictionary.
"Crooner" is not slang per the Cambridge dictionary.

But if you insist on making Wikipedia mirror your own personal reality, you've got your work cut out for you. 32.218.47.105 (talk) 22:42, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

For those playing along at home, this concerns [16]. I didn't say it's slang, I said it's WP:SLANG: a violation of the precept that articles "should not be written using argot, slang, colloquialisms, doublespeak, legalese, or jargon that is unintelligible to an average reader; it means that the English language should be used in a businesslike manner" -- businesslike being probably the word most apt here. In a detailed discussion of Crosby, it's appropriate to explain that his style could categorized as that of a "crooner", that being a semi-technical term; but it's not appropriate, in a context in which Crosby's style is irrelevant, to inject that unusual term into the text, as you have: "During a post-recording session talk with Crosby, the crooner suggested..." Thus I changed crooner to singer; I'd have changed it to simply Crosby if that didn't give us, "During a post-recording session talk with Crosby, Crosby suggested...", which is awkward. However, on reflection I see that the problem is solved by "During a post-recording session talk, Crosby suggested...", and thus I've made that change. E Eng 23:31, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

You can try to parse your statements to within a hair's breadth of meaning, but the fact remains that "crooner" is not "argot, slang, colloquialisms, doublespeak, legalese, or jargon", is perfectly intelligible to the average reader, and constitutes "businesslike" prose. If you don't understand that, then I suggest you reread the previous sentence. 32.218.47.105 (talk) 23:42, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

The previous sentence is

However, on reflection I see that the problem is solved by "During a post-recording session talk, Crosby suggested...", and thus I've made that change.

so I really don't see how that makes your point. Anyway, I'm sure my glittering salon of talk page stalkers will arrive soon to help us sort this out. E Eng 23:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

I think maybe a better point is that we should avoid circumlocutions, regardless of how jargony they may be. It wouldn't be any better if we said "the musician" instead of "the crooner". We should just say "He suggested", or "Crosby suggested", rather than inventing new and colorful ways to confuse our readers by avoiding saying his name. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:04, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) OK, I glitter. 32.218 is correct that "crooner" is a perfectly acceptable word to use in this context, and that it does not fall afoul of WP:SLANG. On the other hand, it's not particularly necessary or useful to say it, and EEng's edit, [17], improves the sentence. And it is fucking aggravating to get an edit conflict on this talk page, given how long it takes to load. Says the syncophant. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Please archive

Your talk page is over 927,000 bytes large. You should really consider archiving a bunch of it. —MRD2014 (talk • contribs) 03:42, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

I'll add your comment to the archive of people asking me to archive. E Eng 03:59, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Haha good idea. —MRD2014 (talk • contribs) 04:00, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Please add me to that archive another time. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:14, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

I forgot who it was but there was an editor on Wikipedia who pissed off the wrong group of admins and was banned/blocked (forgot which) because he kept refusing to archive his talk page and undid the admin's archiving of his talk page. Reading his talk page war with the 3% admins was fun, now I have to look to see if I can find it again. 🔯 Sir Joseph ^🍸(talk) 16:21, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Dear Sir, If you will kindly search the string 3% on this page and its companion User:EEng, you will find some of the incidents you're thinking of, plus links to others. E Eng 16:35, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Dear Sir, I can vouch for the fact that 3% of this page is perfectly useful. If only I could find it. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:47, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Dear EEng, please archive the other 97%. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:14, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

WP:POLEMIC (2)

The first part of this says specifically:

Polemical statements unrelated to Wikipedia, or statements attacking or vilifying groups of editors, persons, or other entities (these are generally considered divisive and removed, and reintroducing them is often considered disruptive).

You have now reverted two editors (who don't generally agree with each other) who have found these statements to be in violation of WP:POLEMIC, specifically to the above-quoted statement. Please do not continue to revert against this consensus. If you continue to believe that the statements are not in violation, you can bring it up on the user talk page, on the talk page for POLEMIC (WT:User pages), or on a notice board, perhaps as an appendix to the thread in which Cedric was indef blocked. Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:04, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

For those playing along at home, this is about [18] Too late. You're fussing about nothing, and I'm sure you know how I feel about the nannying of editor's userpages. The bar for such removals is very high. The guy's been (deservedly) humiliated but no need to add to it. Let it go. E Eng 00:07, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

BMK, firstly that seems to be a criticism of Wikipedia and we generally don't remove those. More importantly, we generally also give lee-way to those blocked/banned to "vent", and finally POLEMIC is in the eyes of the ever wonderful admins. I have seen pages and pages of off topic crap, userboxes calling for violence against certain people, but no action. A little tiny statement about how Wikipedia works by a banned user is not going to get under anyone's skin. Finally, that statement on his page is also certainly not polemic in any event.🔯 Sir Joseph ^🍸(talk) 00:12, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

They have a talk page to vent on, and it most certainly specifically contravenes the rule. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:33, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Imagine a smart guy like you wasting your time on this. E Eng 01:26, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Driveby comment from the actual blocking admin BMK, do you really want to go down this route? If Wrongful accusations from a popular guy: "NBD." Fighting such wrongful accusations: "WP:BATTLEGROUND! WP:NOTHERE! Indef block!" is such a terrible block of WP:POLEMIC that it needs to be removed immediately, then most of User:Beyond My Ken/thoughts is so far in breach that it probably warrants a permanent site ban. Unless something is actually libellous, grossly offensive, a specific attack on a named individual, the use of userspace by a user with little or no history of Wikipedia activity to host out-of-scope content, or something which is actually causing technical problems,* we've always allowed extremely broad leeway in what people can keep in their own userspace. This is really not a hill on which you want to fight. ‑ Iridescent 15:07, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
*"something which is actually causing technical problems" is a policy which this talkpage is going to breach very soon if you continue to refuse to archive it to make whatever WP:POINT you're trying to make, incidentally; if any given page plus all transclusions hits 1.5mb in size, the software will lock it and whoever allowed it to reach that state will be treated as a disruptive editor, and that limit is a non-negotiable limit hardwired into Mediawiki, not just an artefact of humorless admins who fail to see the funny side of your having a talkpage that crashes the browsers of between 10–30% of readers. ‑ Iridescent 15:07, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Now, now, Iridescent, there's no POINT. I do archive now and then, though I should probably pick up the pace. The parser stats are between 1/20 and 1/4 of limits, and the emphasis on text size is misguided since, as with most articles, it's swamped by the images. E Eng 17:25, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Iridescent! I say go for it (or at least revoke his talk page access)! Problem is, EEng just likes it when the rest of us say "it's too big!" Cmon, EEng, you can do it! And see: [19]. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:22, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

^[FBDB]Butt out, shark-bait! E Eng 22:52, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Ok, chum. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:23, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Imho etc it's not half as bad as the notice at the top of their tp, as I might've mentioned before ;) but seriously, that should be got rid of. I spose it has lost imapct now they're blocked, but what a first-time impression it could give a noob that stumbled over it. Just a thought. O Fortuna!^{...Imperatrix mundi.} 15:31, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

That notice is now one with Nineveh and Tyre, as he doesn't have the power to unilaterally overturn "anyone can edit". Looking at his CentralAuth page, it's clear that he's primarily active on Yue Wikipedia. I suspect a lot of this may be a cultural misunderstanding; since Yue is a tiny Wikipedia (only 199 active editors and 50,000 articles, according to the current table), I imagine most of the editors there probably know each other so there's much more of a culture of goofing around and an "I don't need to follow the rules, I write the rules" mentality as there was on en-wiki in the early days, and he just doesn't realise that despite all appearances en-wiki is actually a fairly professional working environment and generally takes a very dim view of self-appointed comedians trying to disrupt procedural discussions. ‑ Iridescent 16:32, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Luckily for me, self-appointed comedians who aren't trying to disrupt are generally tolerated. E Eng 22:52, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that- you're probably right, but, notwithstanding BOLD, IAR etc, I didn't like to do it myself. Thanks to EEng for allowing my bombast here too :) O Fortuna!^{...Imperatrix mundi.} 16:41, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

I'd certainly be a hypocrite if I didn't allow others' bombast here. E Eng 17:25, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Don't feed him

I saw your comment on Cedric's talk page. I don't have a problem with commenting on blocked users' talk pages (obviously), but if you are going to do so I'd advise against mentioning "diacritics". His block had nothing to do with diacritics, despite what he would likely want you to believe. It did have to do with posting indecipherable edit summaries that were not indecipherable because they included diacritics; they were indecipherable because the spellings used therein were gibberish. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:26, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

For those playing along at home [and I'm getting tired of saying that] we're talking about [20]. Crikey, you and BMK both gotta find more to do that doesn't involve managing the precise wordings of messages editors leave for one another. E Eng 04:48, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed what BMK wrote (and still haven't read it). I saw your comment on his page because I was reading it. I knew he would immediately try to appeal his block, and I was fairly certain his appeal would mention me specifically. I corrected a few users on this point on ANI, and it's important -- last time In ictu oculi opposed the indef proposal, apparently on the misunderstanding that the dispute had something to do with diacritics. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:28, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

About that penis of yours

Test. Drmies (talk) 16:26, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Success! Drmies (talk) 16:26, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Drmies, have you taken your medication today? E Eng 17:14, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
How proud I am to have been part of this noble endeavor.
- Yes boss--that's the scary thing. Drmies (talk) 18:45, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Here we see two Wikipedians locked in a life and death struggle to see who will establish dominance by demonstrating that their talk page has the highest number of page watchers who visited recent edits. TimothyJosephWood 18:57, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

My gift to EEng. Drmies (talk) 04:08, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Now, now, no cockfighting, you two. I remember once seeing a purported photo of Rasputin's accomplishment preserved in what looked like a (large) pickle jar. Quite a sight. So sorry I missed that merge discussion of yore (not yours). I looked briefly at the bio page, and noticed multiple instances of what appear to have been intended as images, but which just show the wiki-text for the image; maybe someone should correct that. Interesting reading, anyhoo. Oh, and Drmies, if you do take that medication, be sure to see a doctor if it lasts more than four hours. --Tryptofish (talk) 03:56, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Drmies told me I had to click on this. Now what do I do? Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:25, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Get fired from a blow job.--Kieronoldham (talk) 04:28, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Rejoice! Drmies (talk) 17:34, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Lasst uns erfreuen

I know you've done a few special occasion DYK's in the past, so if you could respond to the query about having this on Easter, it would probably be more useful than me, since I'm relatively new to that area of Wikipedia! TonyBallioni (talk) 16:51, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Mark Barr

On 1 April 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Mark Barr, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that erection engineer Mark Barr had a business making rubbers, said bicycles stimulated ball development, and was elected to the screw committee? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Mark Barr. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Mark Barr), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Mifter (talk) 12:02, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Vaginal steaming

On 1 April 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Vaginal steaming, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that "sorcery for your vagina" can result in second-degree burns? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Vaginal steaming. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Vaginal steaming), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Mifter (talk) 00:02, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Does that have something to do with the Horney Dicks mentioned above? --Tryptofish (talk) 00:26, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Next time I use the kettle, I'm going to make sure it's sterilized first. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 09:23, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be forced sterilization? --Tryptofish (talk) 18:33, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Great to see some useful science at last, on this dismal collection of anecdotal filth. Inane Mars TV 123 (talk) 10:00, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Heads up...(no pun intended)...but my post is strictly for the purpose of gender equality, there's this and if that doesn't satisfy your hunger for encyclopedic knowledge try this as a potential new article for your sandbox. The latter has it's own hook (no pun intended)..."PENIS FACT #5 - The oldest known species with a penis is a hard-shelled sea creature called Colymbosathon ecplecticos. That’s Greek for “amazing swimmer with large penis.” Which officially supplants Buck Naked as the best porn name, ever. " ^{Atsme📞📧} 19:57, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

My, you've been getting around! (Another such link at my talk, too.) Comparing the first link with fact #1 at the second link makes for an interesting contrast. And see also here. (Wouldn't that have made a great DYK?) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:06, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

WP:Forum shopping? No, no, no ~~grasshopper~~, Doctor insert anogram here, the link on your TP was in direct response to a comment you made about notability. The DYK discussion here appears to be heating up, so I added different links in response; all rooted in a very innocent intent

to broaden the encyclopedic experience with a more gender balanced approach. I would also like to think it may inadvertently have contributed to EEng's pool of witty hooks for future reference.

Any scientist (talk page stalker) reading this thread will be happy if not relieved to know my links lead to purely scientific material, and not WP:Pseudoscience.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Atsme (talk • contribs) 10:37, April 3, 2017 (UTC)

Public Garden - Irrigation System

I appreciate your arguments regarding the information that you removed, in the context of a conclusion drawn from original research. However, I still think the information you removed is relevant in terms of providing context for the reader. The paragraph in question is located in the history section of the document; providing the earliest-known investigation into building an irrigation system, and context of the irrigation systems in the park bordering the garden, are valuable in that they build context for the reader. I'd like to bring back that information. Nemilar (talk) 04:32, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

First of all, you don't know that the 1960s resolution was the first "known" investigation, and no matter how you look at it, you're WP:SYNTHesizing the difference in installation dates into a conclusion that it means something. Are there sprinklers on the Esplanade? When were they installed? If that was before/after the Public Garden, what does that tell us? How about the grounds of the State House? Should we include all that stuff too? No, because there's no source telling us how these other things illuminate the significance of the installation in the Public Garden. E Eng 04:41, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Herb Caen

Kudos for your work on the Herb Cain article. Dlabtot (talk) 01:03, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Why, thank you, kind sir or madam. I actually tear up a bit sometimes when I think that he's actually gone. It's amazing -- he started with the Chronicle when my mother was 8 years old

If you search for <!-- in the raw text you'll find notes on ways the article can be improved -- it particularly could use more material on the unique feel of HC's work, and on tributes from others. The NYT obit, SFGate piece, and Pulitzer award must certainly have choice bits that can be mined -- also there's in interview with HC himself cited somewhere. Why not take a stab in your abundant spare time.

EEng (talk) 03:36, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Two items -- paraphrased from memory -- which I particularly remember and have only halfheartedly tried to find (though I suspect the bulk of Caen's text is under the Chron's tight lock and key):

[Early 70s, last item of the day's column -- typical zinger ending a HC column] FREUDIAN SLIP OF THE WEEK AWARD Hubert Humphrey, recalling the wonders of the LBJ Administration to The Tomorrow Show's Tom Snyder: "At least we didn't wash our dirty Lyndon in public!"
...Sign posted in the anatomy lab at Stanford Medical School: "Students -- use only half of brain!"

Jim Leavelle

Thanks for your help with the caption in the Jim Leavelle article. Have a good day! - Thanks, Hoshie 22:00, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Malcolm X

Thanks! I needed a laugh after a determined attack last night by trolling, vandalizing sockpuppets on my user and talk pages. That's the way to convert a Jew to Christianity, huh? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:34, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Phineas Gage "remaining"

Like it. Ward20 (talk) 08:58, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Amazing it's taken so long -- been fretting about that sentence for ages! Strive ever upwards, O Wikipedians, be it just a word at at time! EEng (talk) 09:20, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Units

Re [21]: same thing, right? The real question is: 48 solar hours or 48 sidereal hours? NE Ent 14:10, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Just as an hour at a fun party feels like 15 minutes while an hour at a tedious faculty meeting feels like 5 hours, an hour at ANI feels like your life is flashing before your eyes while an hour not at ANI feels like a day in the countryside. If that helps. EEng (talk) 15:07, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Error

I think you mistakenly clicked thank instead of undo. 8^> —sroc 💬 09:02, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, well ;P to you too, buster! But isn't yr Okt-fest example still ambiguous? Might the reader not mistakenly conclude that it lasts 1 yr + a few days? Assuming we're past that, what do you think about "Holy Week 2014 begins April 13 and ends April 19" -- conserves column width! EEng (talk) 09:11, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

True. The example looks good, although I'm not sure what "Holy Week" is or if it would ever be called "Holy Week 2014". I intentionally chose an example in the past (so it needn't change tense in due course) and that spans two months, otherwise someone might get the idea of re-writing it as "from 13 to 19 April" or something. What about "In 2013, Ramadan started 10 July and ended 7 August"? —sroc 💬 09:28, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

When faced with a term or phrase (such as Holy Week) with which I'm unfamiliar, I often think to myself, "If only there were some way to answer such questions using calculating machines... A world-wide information storage and retrieval system of some kind... Perhaps computers linked using a kind of telegraphic communication system... with a typewriter-like way entering queries... and some kind of display device by which the machine would present answers...."

Well, last night I decided to stop dreaming and start doing. Click here for a demonstration. Crude, I know, but it illustrates the general idea. I don't think there's any money in it, though. Too bad.

You're right that crossing months is better, and in the spirit of inclusionism (if that's a word) perhaps we should go with Ramadan. More comments there. EEng (talk) 16:36, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Tweaked your MOSNUM edit

Hi, I hope this is fine. Tony (talk) 06:01, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

It's fine, of course. I hope my snapping at you a while back didn't make you uneasy about dealing with me, but please consider the context. Over the last six months I've invested many hours reorganizing and massaging MOS (especially Dates & Numbers) to make it more usable and, to my amazement, have received almost no resistance. (Nor have I received much appreciation, but I can live with that.) Except in a very few places which I carefully call out, my intention is only to improve the presentation without changing the meaning. So when, in one tiny corner, I unintentionally did change the meaning, I was a bit miffed to have the C-word waved in my face as if I was trying to pull a fast one. [22] I recognized, even then, that you likely didn't mean it that way, but MOS is such an unpleasant place that I think we should all bend over backwards to keep the tone as pleasant as possible. EEng (talk) 15:14, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

No problem. The removal of that "you can" appeared to make it mandatory, which was a bit sudden (and undesirable I think, without having talked through the implications). MOS is powerful, both for on- and off-wiki English. It purports to be a professional authority, and has that capacity (probably it is that already), so it's not surprising that there's tension on a wiki. Cheers. Tony (talk) 07:00, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I completely agree the change was inappropriate -- I just wish more consideration had been given to the fact that it was apparently unintentional.

If you really think that people are using WP MOS as a style guide outside of WP, I think we need a little disclaimer on it somewhere saying that, while anyone's free to use it of course, it has many details peculiar to the needs of WP and issues that arise there, and which may not be appropriate for general application elsewhere i.e. a camel is a horse designed by a committee. EEng (talk) 07:05, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

You have no idea how that last statement really is.... better choice of words than I used as well. I'll need to remember that for next time MOS dramas erupt over the addition of the number of auxiliary parameters or data granularity without considering the more meta aspects. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:40, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

"Zero tolerance" baseball

OK, it's not everyday that edit summaries on the DYK talk page make me laugh as much as I did. Thanks a bunch. :) I, JethroBT ^{drop me a line} 19:52, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. An unfortunate limitation of edit summaries as a medium for artistic expression is that once you've hit <enter> you're stuck. My regret here is that I didn't link to Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?. A pity. EEng (talk) 20:02, 4 August 2014 (UTC) But then Picasso (or someone) said form is liberating i.e. if I could revise it, I'd probably still be revising even now, instead of wasting my time usefully editing elsewhere on WP.

Obviously as a ninjarette (don't highlight that spellchecker, it's brilliant), I don't take three strikes to put somebody out. ("testing showed it was 1.7 times more injurious than a 30mph car crash with modern safety features". You can't argue with "testing") Belle (talk) 20:09, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Over here in the UK, we often used to play "zero tolerance rounders", but the shot-gun would always jam at just the wrong time! lol. 20:23, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for suggesting to use {{paragraph break}} on ANI. It seems that's....done it. 213.7.147.34 (talk) 00:01, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome. It's a shame how people who actually contribute content have to waste their time figuring out how to avoid being harassed by the technogeeks [23] EEng (talk) 01:40, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Right, I see now that there's quite some background to this whole p tag business -- it would appear I've been caught in heavy crossfire. Anyway, I think the 2nd (72h) block was more egregious. Rule says must blockbrz0101. 213.7.147.34 (talk) 02:11, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, your bad luck. What's weird is that you and I crossed paths with him on exactly the same trivial issue. [24] It seems he never learns. EEng (talk) 03:55, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

x ≥ y etc

Hi, the MOSNUM examples for ≥ and ≤ appear in the table (spaced), but when it's a number by itself, is the symbol spaced thus? "If the value is > 15, the procedure is likely to succeed". Or >15? Thx. Tony (talk) 11:10, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Putting aside the question of whether and when mixing symbols and text like that is a good idea, I'd think that >, which is standing in for a word, should be spaced on both sides in your example. But that's just a guess, and in some contexts dropping the space on the right side might look better. (This is, after all, about what looks good, not some silly "correctness".) EEng (talk) 20:04, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks. I've since thought that because operators (+3, −3) are unspaced on the right, that "values of >3 should", "values <3 should", etc should also be unspaced on the right, since they look to me like operators in that context. The visual fails with the "is less than" sign, unspaced, to my eyes; but maybe that's the price for consistency. This seems like a different context to the spaced one in the title here. Tony (talk) 01:50, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

I'd be happy to opine on a particular situation in an actual article. EEng (talk) 02:23, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

From the Museum of Freudian Slips

About this edit summary: [25], please tell me that the spelling was intentional, and not a typo or a Freudian slip! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:53, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, sometimes a typo is just a typo, but I'm not sure it's possible to distinguish one from a F.S. without more psychotherapy than my insurance will underwrite. Not intentional, at any rate. EEng (talk) 23:45, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

"So, Sigmund Freud walks into a bra..." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:01, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

"So, Phineas Gage runs into a bar..." EEng (talk) 19:03, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Now that sounds bit hairy! Anyone fancy a Brazillian? [26]. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:12, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I've seen that before, of course. I like where the doctor says "the bar entered a 'non-eloquent' area of the brain" -- likely Google-translate for the "silent area" – see [27]. What's really amazing about these kinds of amazing survivals is that they're not actually uncommon anymore. See Stone (1999) "Transcranial Brain Injuries Caused by Metal Rods or Pipes over the Past 150 Years". (My favorites: Case IX – "a young left-handed American Marine in a jeep accident near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania who had a gear shift driven through his head ... On follow-up examination he was free of gross deficits and was eventually dismissed from the Marine Corps because of injuries to his knee. Some years later it was learned that he did have a dyslexia and had sought the help of a nun who trained him to read" – and Case XIV – "The victim and his friend were intoxicated and attempting a 'William Tell' maneuver ... The arrow was removed by pulling it through the brain along its original trajectory ..." I always find it amusing that details such as "near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania", and the nun, are considered somehow relevant.) EEng (talk) 19:49, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Better take care if you're out drinking in downtown Boston, Mr. L. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:58, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Freud's first slip. EEng (talk) 22:25, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Poor EEng, as a young child, he was mistreated by a bot. Those nasty bots! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:56, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

More like the Primal scene, except with bots. After that I could never look at my motherboard the same way again. EEng (talk) 20:52, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Surely you mean Primal Scream? ya mutha. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:54, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Primal Screen And don't call me Shirley. EEng (talk) 17:40, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Berkley

Did I make the right guess here: [28]? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:01, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't think so [29] though you'll need a better source than any of those -- you'd probably find it in the liner notes of one of his albums (not sure if that counts as a RS -- never thought about it). Did you get my email??? EEng (talk) 23:06, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah, many thanks. I was thrown by the Google translation of "Berklee" as "Berkley". My knowledge of Czech is pretty limited and I have to guess. But I can't even guess when it somes to Hebrew! Jakubovic's liner notes are often a bit scant, to say the least. Sorry no access to email at the moment, but I will check as soon as I can. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:39, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

"My knowledge of Czech is pretty limited." I had an instructor once who mentioned that he was going to have a busy term because he was taking over a sick colleague's Akkadian class "and my Akkadian is pretty rusty." I found that endlessly amusing. I mean -- how to do you stay supple in Akkadian? A sabbatical in Akkadia? And how would anyone know? If you just fake it, what are the chances you'll get found out? Glad I could help. EEng (talk) 13:29, 28 January 2015 (UTC) I was a bit pissed off when I wrote the email -- I really thought you were playing with fire at my expense -- so please see past that.

Lol. "Playing with fire"... are you joking! I'd rather try juggling with chainsaws! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:07, 28 January 2015 (UTC) p.s. he probably meant "Arcadian class". p.p.s. I have replied. Even a library needs a few coatracks, I would have thought.

Thanks for your help

Thanks for your consideration of the DATEUNIFY stuff. It makes a pleasant change from arguing about commas, having arguments over arguments about commas, discussing arguments over arguments about commas, and then debating deletion of images. —sroc 💬 00:45, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Happy to help, but you know I'm twiddling my thumbs until I get the go-ahead after the latest concerns were raised. Your turn! EEng (talk) 01:20, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Chuck DeVore

It looks like the subject is at it again. You helped deal with this back in 2013. Please take a look at my recent revert and, if so moved, keep an eye on the page. David in DC (talk) 16:35, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm under pressure for the next week [30] but I will, as you say, try keep an eye out. E Eng 17:23, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Wow. I knew nothing about Gage until I helped out a tiny bit on the Genie article. Good luck and enjoy. David in DC (talk) 17:31, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Alyson Hannigan

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Alyson Hannigan. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I'd forgotten all about this woman - if she hands you a flute, make sure it's been washed :-/ Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 08:47, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Oooooh. That's the first joke on this page I understand. -Roxy the dog™ bark 09:19, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

"I bought a dog from a blacksmith. When I got home he made a bolt for the door". Martinevans123 (talk) 09:34, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

The dog must have heard a tap on the door - altogether now - "my plumber's got a strange sense of humour". Robevans123 (talk) 09:46, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you to that well known comedy duo, "the evans123 brothers" -Roxy the dog™ bark 09:53, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Did someone say tap on the door?? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:29, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Length of page

Hi,

Your talk page is currently 715,338 bytes long. This makes it difficult for some to edit, or even read. Please archive most of it. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:48, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate your concern, but I'll need to see actual evidence that the length make it hard for anyone to read. As to editing, no one except I should be making anything but section edits. E Eng 19:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

You know what they say.... "big Talk Pages, big heel spurs". *snigger, snigger* Colonel "Deep Bucket" Sanders (talk) 20:00, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

EEng, please forgive me about this, but I'm actually going to agree with Andy. Here's a bit of evidence. I just left a comment in a section a little way above, and I carefully timed how long it took from when I clicked "Save" until the saving process was actually complete. I have a very fast internet connection (and the monthly bill to go with it), and my experience is that the rate-limiting step for my edits is at the Wikipedia end. Normally, my edits "save" in around 3 or 4 seconds. The edit I just made here took 18 seconds. Please consider some serious archiving. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:28, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I went back to my watchlist, and then clicked for the diff of my comment immediately above, and it took 21 seconds. I then clicked from the diff to the top of this talk page, and it took 20 seconds. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:33, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I just left a message on someone else's talk page, and it saved so fast that I could not really time it. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:39, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Test edit – DO NOT READ

I told you not to read it.

You must have been a difficult child.
Test edit - do not read. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 23:57, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm experiencing none of the delays here that our icthyic friend has noted. Just another data point. Anyway, computers are weird. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:00, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

He's just Trypin', like he sometimes does. Any time a page is edited a new version has to be rendered. The page being X times the size of a typical page, it's not surprising it takes X times as long to render, though as SBHB found it's highly variable (server load, naked chance, etc.). It's part of the cost of membership in my glittering array of talk page stalkers. Anyway, the result is cached, so if the page gets any significant traffic at all, only the edit-or sees this delay, not plain read-ers.

Perhaps I'll be inspired to archived a few things. E Eng 01:05, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

That's what I'm here for: to provide inspiration! Who called me icthyic? I'm neither icky nor thick. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:09, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

... "raw prawns" are people too, you know. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:56, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm a pawn, not a prawn. (And why does a YouTube video about prawns consist of a photo of a dog? Don't answer that.) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:44, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

I will not answer. But please bear in mind that is a garage band. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:51, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Under one month later, the page is now 730,269 bytes. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:54, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Humphrey Stafford (died 1413)

On 28 August 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Humphrey Stafford (died 1413), which you recently nominated. The fact was ... that in his will, Humphrey Stafford left his household servants £1 each, his grooms 6s.8d each, his pages 3s.4d each, and £8 for masses for his soul? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Humphrey Stafford (died 1413). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:02, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Legobot (talk) 04:28, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

^^^^Enter at your own risk, Bart Simpson^^^^ ^{Atsme📞📧} 14:09, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Don't have a cow, man. I'd commented there already. E Eng 14:50, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

I may have calves only a cow could love, but I won't be giving birth to one. It was humor connected to the Bart Simpson image you posted at Coward; meant nothing by it. ^{Atsme📞📧} 16:07, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Seriously: don't have a cow, man. I'm pretty culturally illiterate, but I recognized that one :-) FourViolas (talk) 17:52, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Okily Dokily! If anyone wants me, I'll be in my room. ^{Atsme📞📧} 18:01, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Your are always welcome here. E Eng 19:56, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Was that an attempt to spell like Bart Simpson? (It's a wonderful sentiment, but grammar still counts.) Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 20:33, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

I started to write "Your contributions are always welcome" and a few keystrokes in it revised itself into "You are always welcome here", and the result is what you see above. E Eng 20:39, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Don'cha just hate it when that happens...especially when you're trying to make a point in a fallacious argument like we all tend to do from time to time. ^{Atsme📞📧} 22:28, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

I've given up commenting on grammar and style. Muphry's Law nails me every time. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 23:33, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

SBHB - I've again learned something new from you. You're the gift that keeps on giving!

^{Atsme📞📧} 00:24, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for being one of Wikipedia's top medical contributors!

please help translate this message into the local language

The Cure Award

In 2015 you were one of the top 300 medical editors across any language of Wikipedia. Thank you from Wiki Project Med Foundation for helping bring free, complete, accurate, up-to-date health information to the public. We really appreciate you and the vital work you do! Wiki Project Med Foundation is a user group whose mission is to improve our health content. Consider joining here, there are no associated costs, and we would love to collaborate further.

Thanks again :) -- Doc James along with the rest of the team at Wiki Project Med Foundation 03:59, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Well done, EEng. I wonder would you take a look at my bunions sometime? They've been giving me gyp lately. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:59, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Amazing stuff

Topology meets physics. Tony (talk) 06:07, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Well-written, thanks. Might interest David Eppstein. E Eng 06:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for the pointer. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:19, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

I found it very interesting too. Thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:23, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Newell Boathouse

On 16 October 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Newell Boathouse, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Newell Boathouse stands on land for which Harvard pays $1 per year under a lease running one thousand years‍—‌after which the university can renew for another thousand years? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Newell Boathouse), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Wilkins/Borges

Thanks for making improvements to The Analytical Language of John Wilkins. Part of the reason I created this one was to watch the DYK process unfold (it's an area of WP I have very little experience with) so I hope you'll entertain a newbie question: there are now a couple different hook proposals at the nomination page. What happens to determine which one is the one that sticks? Just add a comment of endorsement to the nom page itself or is there another venue for that? Thanks. --— Rhododendrites ^talk | 15:41, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

The choice of hook is determined somewhat haphazardly. First, during the nom discussion often some or all-but-one get struck for one or another reason -- as the original nominator your preferences get a bit of extra weight in that. Next, the reviewer may not want to bother verifying several hooks, so may pick a smaller subset, or just one, to verify. Finally, if there are still 2 or more in play, then the "promoter" picks one to send to the main page. So if you much prefer one, or much dislike one, say so. Keep your eye on the nom page.

Sooner or later the article on Celestial Emporium should be merged in to your article, but that can wait.

I wrote a very long paper on Wilkins' Real Character and Philosophical Language about eight years ago, my thesis being that almost everything you read about Wilkins is baloney, because almost no one had access to the actual work until a facsimile was published some years ago. Foucault, who didn't read it, babbles on based on Borges, who didn't read it -- at least he admits it -- and was working from a bunch of other people who didn't read it either. Subbiondo's paper is complete nonsense -- absolutely shameful -- he makes a fool of himself. The best overall by far is Andrade [31], which you can find in a few anthologies. But if this interests you at all, there's no substitute for going through the book itself [32] -- it's amazing. Wilkins is the greatest genius and most wonderful, gentle person you never were taught about in school. This is his magnum opus, but everything he wrote is worth reading, I promise you. EEng (talk) 18:21, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip re: DYK. I'm bookmarking the link for later. It's not directly relevant to the work I'm doing now (and I have enough of it :) ), but I find these "universal language" ideas fascinating. Is that your interest or did you come to Wilkins another way? I came across Wilkins before I read Borges or Foucault, while trying to learn more about Leibniz's universal character. Unfortunately, I never got around to reading either of the primary texts (Leibniz or Wilkins), but they're on my "down the road" list... --— Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 16:50, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Aus der Tiefen

Amongst my glittering salon talk page stalkers, does there number a Commons admin? I'm caught in a Kafkaesque discussion over the licensing of an image with a bunch of people who can't keep their definitions straight. In the name of all that is holy, can someone give me a hand getting this resolved? E Eng 17:46, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm not an admin there, but I may be able to put you in touch with one. I'm also very familiar with the licensing procedures if you're of the mind to direct me to the discussion. ^{Atsme📞📧} 18:30, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Two admins: George (A) and Yann (A) ^{Atsme📞📧} 18:39, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Yann I'm already dealing with, but it's going nowhere because as soon as I say, "Can you show me where it says what you're telling me", everyone falls silent. It seems like everyone's just constructed a private idea of what the rules are, plus no one seems clear on the definition of such terms as owner and author. Since you asked, I'd be happy for you to take a look but please, we both need to be in serious mode for the duration of it. They've already put me in an embarrassing position over there.

The file at issue is File:HarryRLewis_Harvard_demonstrating_SHAPESHIFTER_1967or1968.jpg. It's probably enough for you to pick up reading at Commons:Help_desk#If_I_may_trouble_my_esteemed_fellow_editors_for_a_moment...; I don't think you need to chase the link that gives to the earlier discussion (unless you want to savor how long I've been going around in circles on this). It occurs to me that David Eppstein may be able to help here too. E Eng 18:49, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm not an admin on commons, just a contributor there, so I'm not sure what help I could provide. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:50, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Read the copyright info at (short paragraph) - should resolve the problem since the image contains no copyright notice. It's actually public domain. ^{Atsme📞📧} 19:49, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I love you Atsme, and you're one of my favorite stalkers. Keep that in mind when I say that ~~you must be a complete idiot to say that~~ you're laboring under a misapprehension. The copyright notice doesn't need to be in the image itself, and anyway AFAIK (not that I'm in a position that I would know -- I just don't know) the image was never published until recently anyway (whether with or without a notice). So that path doesn't help us. E Eng 20:08, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

“Publication is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending. Distribution has been satisfied because a copy was made using the negative, your guy received a copy of it (that is distribution), and gave you permission to upload because he claimed sole ownership of it and granted his permission to license it under CC-by-sa 3.0 or 4.0 (whatever was granted); however, you could change that license to public domain, and that's how the cow ate the cabbage. ❤️ See definitions. ^{Atsme📞📧} 21:25, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

It's got to be to the public. Giving a copy to a friend, or the subject, isn't publication. E Eng 21:33, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

lol* Last time I'm going to explain this...you're misunderstanding "to the public". As a pro photog, I can assure you that if, prior to 1978, I shot a picture of a person and gave it to that person for whatever reason without a copyright notice on it - it doesn't matter if it was for their family photo album - it is still considered distributing work to the public - John Q. Public - remember him? The photog loses all copyright claims for that image UNLESS they include it in a particular pattern or arrangement or in a copyrighted book, brochure, etc. - but the only part of the image that is copyrighted is the actual "arrangement" with the image included, not the individual image itself. After 1978, that part of the copyright law changed. The Kentucky Derby is about to start - gotta "run". ^{Atsme📞📧} 22:36, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree about this. The concept of publication (like everything in copyright law) is complex, but in general, and with exceptions, its essential element is what is sometimes called "general publication", in which the work is "made available to members of the public at large without regard to who they are or what they propose to do with it". "Limited publication", which is what you're describing, is (in general) for copyright purposes no publication at all. However, since there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip, an intended limited publication might, subsequently, be interpreted by the court as a general publication, and so authors used to be advised to include a copyright notice in all cases, to avoid trouble. I think that's the advice you're thinking of. (Of course, now the notice doesn't matter anyway, in general.)

Enjoy the derby! E Eng 00:08, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

One more last time...Harvard Magazine published it back in 1974? as Harry Lewis' thesis project? and Lewis provided the photo as a courtesy. There was no copyright notice on the photograph unless you know something I don't - therefore, according to the law (and I had to go to Cornell and Stanford so you could see it in print),

, the photo is considered public domain because from 1923 through 1977, images published without a copyright notice are in the public domain due to failure to comply with required formalities. See [33]. The law changed but it only applies to works in 1978 forward. As for the Derby, my pick to win came out of the gate bucking, my pick to place won it, and my pick to show was 4th. On that bet, I deserve a

Self-whale... for when a trout just isn't enough. ^{Atsme📞📧} 01:41, 7 May 2017 (UTC) ^{See this from ... stutter, stammer...Berkeley. Oh, you Harvard boys! 01:49, 7 May 2017 (UTC)}

If ever there was a part of WP in which I want to just curse out a few editors and rage-quit, it's any commons licensing or deletion discussion. I am dead serious, by the way. The vast majority of editors I've encountered there are self-important idiots who just do whatever the hell they feel like with no respect or regard for consensus, common courtesy or the policies they themselves put into effect. I wish you luck. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 23:47, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm getting the same feedback from two or three others. E Eng 00:08, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

It does seem to be the case that photographs new enough to be non-public-domain, but old enough that nobody knows the identity of the photographer or whether it was a work-for-hire, are stuck in a legal limbo that prevents using them on commons. If it were a work for hire, we could get permission of the employer, and if we knew who the photographer was (and it was not a work for hire) then we could get permission of them or their estate. But a person who possesses a print of the photo doesn't have the right to release it, and it can't be on commons without a release. It's too bad Atsme's theory about giving a copy being a publication seems so implausible, because that looks like the best remaining shot. If you want an even bigger legal morass for photos on commons, try looking into freedom of panorama sometime. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:16, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

nobody knows the identity of the photographer or whether it was a work-for-hire: but that's not the case here. I don't know those things; the content donor likely does; or maybe he doesn't; it doesn't matter. As long as the content donor affirms that he is the owner, and there's no significant reason to doubt that, that should be the end of it, because Wikimedia is entitled to rely on such representations made in apparent good faith. There's no requirement to supply, or even know, who the author was; the license [34] requires that "licensees retain the following if it is supplied by the Licensor with the Licensed Material: (i) identification of the creator(s) of the Licensed Material..." (italics added) i.e. the license explicitly contemplates that the owner/licensor does not know who the author/creator is. For christ's sake, Can't Anybody Here Play This Game? E Eng 00:32, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

I think maybe the issue here is the word "owner", which means something different in colloquial usage than what commons means by it. He may be the owner of the physical print, but he is not the owner of the copyright on the image, unless he took the photo, was the hirer of a work-for-hire (both of which look extremely unlikely in this case) or took part in an explicit copyright transfer agreement (possible, but still pretty unlikely because nobody ever does that unless required to by a publisher as a condition of publishing something, and then the transfer would be to the publisher not to the subject). So basically the commons people are trying to decide between two interpretations of what happened so far: (1) by some unexplained sequence of events Lewis has become the copyright owner on his own photo, an extremely unusual circumstance that would allow him to be the one giving the release, or (2) you and Lewis have misinterpreted what "owner" means. So far, it seems that the your insistence that you don't have to explain how Lewis became the owner as long as he certifies that he is has backfired, by convincing them that (2) is the likelier interpretation. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:38, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Sure, yeah, like you think Lewis and I are confused about the concept of owner. It's not that I don't have to (though it's true that I shouldn't have to), it's that I really don't want to, because it puts me in an embarrassing position. What pisses me off is that they seem to be making up the rules as they go along. To use an example close to your experience, all the images in Andrew Gleason and Jean Berko Gleason could, I suppose, have been challenged under similar "it-seems-unlikely" woolgathering, but they weren't, because by the luck of the draw (I guess) the OTRS volunteer who processed them had the sense to understand that Wikimedia is entitled to rely on representations given in releases, absent a realistic reason to question them. As it happens, I drew someone else this time, and a bee having got in the bonnet, there's apparently no way to get it out. Here's a typical interaction:

You say that "the client" (by which I assume you mean the person issuing the release) "needs to say who has to be credited as copyright owner". He's already told you who the copyright owner is: himself. EEng (talk) 15:48, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

[The file description page] says that the author is "unknown". Regards, Yann (talk) 16:33, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

What does that have to do with anything? Per the documentation at Template:Information, the Author is the "Original author of the file"; that person is unknown. The author is distinct from the copyright owner, and that is not unknown: it's in the release. EEng (talk) 17:07, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

That is the whole point of what I say above. If the author is unknown, it can't be released under a free license. Regards, Yann (talk) 17:18, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

What??? You just said, "At the very least, the client needs to say who has to be credited as copyright owner." Now you're saying the author needs to be known. The Author has nothing to do with it, and (as already pointed out above) the license explicitly contemplates that the author might be unknown. Can you, please, point to something in writing that sets out the rules and requirements, so we can resolve this? We're going round and round in circles. EEng (talk) 17:24, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I am also a bit tired to repeat the same thing. Evidence shows that the uploader doesn't know or remember who took his picture, but claims to be the copyright owner. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Regards, Yann (talk) 18:49, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

First he says the owner is needed. Then when it's pointed out that that's been supplied, he switches to the author. Then when it's pointed pointed out that those are two different things, he simply says, "it doesn't work that way", which is just another way of saying "I can't explain what I'm talking about". Backfiring has nothing to do with it. They're just muddleheaded incompetents. E Eng 02:02, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

So do you have an even-vaguely-plausible theory how Lewis could have come to be the owner of the copyright on the image? If you don't, they likely can't come up with one either, so why do you expect them to take your word for it? And if you do, why haven't you presented it? —David Eppstein (talk) 05:50, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

David Eppstein, you apparently underestimate the amount of time I've been knocking my head against this brick wall. I've been the "even-vaguely-plausible theory" route with this bunch (see the last paragraph of the diff here -- and I'm not joking about his mother). I don't know the answer, but why should I? Was I supposed to ask him when I created the release for him? If so, how was I supposed to know that? Why wasn't this question asked re the two photos in this article, both of which depict the person who issued the release? E Eng 08:40, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

It's public domain unless there is a copyright notice stamped or written on the photograph per copyright law prior to 1978. Jiminy Cricket - I've referenced all kinds of RS, (see the Derby posts above) and now I'll even provide case law which supports the public domain status as "published" because the image was provided courtesy of Lewis and published in Harvard Magazine back in 1974 - "See Kernal Records Oy v. Mosley,794 F. Supp.2d 1355, 1364 (S.D. Fla. 2011). Citing Getaped.com, Inc., the Eastern District of Arkansas found that photographs that were accessible online to others who could download them freely were published. The picture was published prior to 1978, it has no copyright notice on it, it is public domain. Keep disagreeing - it's great fodder for future exchanges one of us will have a hard time getting past. 😂 ^{Atsme📞📧} 03:01, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Where are you seeing 1974? The reason I ask is that we haven't been able to find the article, which as far as I can tell would have been 1968 or 1969. Are you seeing the date 1974 somewhere? If so that's could be a clue. E Eng 03:12, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't sure about the date which is why I originally followed it with a ? At this link, the dates in the caption under the image may represent milestones, I don't know, but it reads Harry Lewis ’68, AM ’73, Ph.D. ’74 poses with his senior thesis project, SHAPESHIFTER. The program ran on a PDP-1 computer equipped with graphical displays. As Harvard Magazine described it at the time: "The program accomplishes rapid....(snip).....and converted into machine-recognizable code. The actual computations are then controlled by this code." COURTESY OF HARRY LEWIS.

Apparently Harvard Magazine covered his thesis project and used the image in the article. Also, if you can find the following report, "SHAPESHIFTER: An interactive program for experimenting with com\-plex-plane transformations; Proceedings of the 23rd National Conference of the Association for Computing Machinery, 1968; pp. 717--724, you may see the picture.

Regardless, photographs are not treated quite the same as articles, books, movies and the like with regards to what determines "published" during the applicable time frame. When a photographer snaps a picture, develops it from negative to print, and hands that photograph over to whomever without a copyright notice attached (1977 & before), the recipient of the photo (Harry Lewis) was free to distribute it (throughout the university), and copy it for others to use (in reports, magazines, etc.). As case law demonstrates, by making the image freely available to others, the photograph is considered published, and without the copyright notice (pre-1977), it's public domain. ^{Atsme📞📧} 05:48, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

The 1968 ACM paper is doi:10.1145/800186.810636 but there are no photos in it. Incidentally, if Atsme's legal theory is valid (I have no idea), the template to use (on commons) appears to be {{PD-US-no notice}}. —David Eppstein (talk) 05:53, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Harry Lewis ’68, AM ’73, Ph.D. ’74 means he earned his three Harvard degrees in those years, nothing to do with when the article appeared. Thanks, though. E Eng 08:45, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Solution, see here - upload as public domain per the reasons I've provided, simple. ^{Atsme📞📧} 09:20, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

I've changed the license tag to {PD-US-no notice}. Thanks, Atsme! E Eng 09:35, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

And they leave with so little

Referring to myself, of course; you seem to have been out long enough to start re-acquiring basic logic skills. FourViolas (talk) 11:35, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

For the humorously (citation needed) inclined

This may be ~~up yours~~ up your ally: Wikipedia talk:Reflections on RfX#Kittens are great. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:58, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Neutral-point-of-view policy

It could be, but the purpose of the hyphenation is to link the words together into a unit, and the link in "neutral point of view policy" would already do that pretty effectively. But, yeah, I have seen them hyphenated like that sometimes. Going by other usage on other, well-developed WP:POLICY pages, we tend try to work such references into natural language, like "Wikipedia's policy on neutral point of view". It scans better and comes across less like "bible thumping" about our policies. :-) — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 22:47, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Crikey, SM, even logicians don't have to take everything so seriously, do they? E Eng 21:48, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Personally, I've always found your sermons to be real red-letter days, Stanton!

Martinevans123 (talk) 23:16, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Don’t call me Shirley

A sudden hankering for a visit to the museum made me type in WP:EEng instead of User:EEng and that took me to the Electrical engineering wikiproject. Felt a bit silly, since in my mind the only possible explanation for the Eng. in your username was the word 'English' - E. English. - NQ (talk) 12:45, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Shirley, I'm pretty sure that EEng actually does have a background in electrical engineering, although I cannot vouch for what grades he might have gotten in English. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:16, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

"His body may be that of a mere mortal, but thanks to Wikipedia, his mind is now a temple to knowledge." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:37, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Too bad, I'd prefer something with some alcohol. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:41, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

For that matter, I've always wondered how it's meant to be pronounced. Is it /iːiːɛnˈd͜ʒiː/, /ˈiːɛŋ/, or /iːŋ/? If it is indeed an abbreviation for "electrical engineer", then I guess the logical pronunciation would be /ˈiːɪnʒ/ — but I'm not sure. Eman 235/talk 02:09, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Noitulos levon a s'ereh: give up and pronounce it backwards, as /ˈniː/ (or /ˈnjiː/—everyone here speaks Norman, right?) FourViolas (talk) 03:51, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm not speaking to Norman, and I'm not speaking to Shirley. I still want a drink. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:11, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

"It's pronounced /gniː/!" Eman 235/talk 04:42, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

When I went to create an account, it was just the first thing that popped into my mind. Yes, I think there was some vague association to EE, which is indeed a constituent discipline of whatever it is I do, though not its emphasis. But really it was just short, easy to type (to save people trouble in the ANI threads which, subconsciously, I knew even then would be coming) and random. Only much later did Martinevans123 suggest that I perform in rites and dances.

In my mind it rhymes with spree-xxxx, where, I now realize, xxxx stands for a sound I can't rhyme in English (and which, BTW, is not the Eng in English either). I just checked, and it's not the eng in Deng Xiaoping either. It's the a in ache + the ng in king. E Eng 21:03, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Sounding in any way like "king" seems a bit of an overreach. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:11, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

^[FBDB]We are not amused, insect! E Eng 21:55, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Mmmm, fish likes insects! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:15, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

crushed already. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Crushed ice? I prefer neat. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:13, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

We can't all be just fat, dumb and happy, Trypty. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Would you settle for two out of three? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:25, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Hahahaha. ... Wiki innocence Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Now, if you learned the IPA, you could be a little more specific. Something like /iːeɪŋ/, as in "E-eyng"? Eman 235/talk 00:48, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

From his recent edit summaries (e.g. [35]) Tryptofish is your man, since he seems immersed in IPA just now. But as long as the e in eyng is like ay in day, yes. E Eng 00:55, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

I guess I'm sort of a "IPA-pusher".

Here's a "hoverable" version, anyhow: /ˈiːeɪŋ/. I'm assuming the stress falls on the first syllable. Eman 235/talk 01:08, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Hey, that's pretty nifty. It's just right. Thanks. E Eng 01:18, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Eee-Yay-ng, yes, I'm a firm believer in total immersion, but I'm nobody's man, just a fish. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:04, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

I guess it rhymes with "Whee!...dang". Eman 235/talk 01:11, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Dang! If I understood the proprietor correctly, he wants the vowel sound to rhyme with "bay" or "hey", and not "fang" or "hang". Now perhaps there is a southern US pronunciation in which "dang" gets drawn out to something like "dayng", y'all, but to me a "long a" is not what "dang" is. Now as far as I'm concerned, it really should be as in "Deng" – but then again, as someone who insists that they are a fish, I guess I should let the proprietor have his way (or at least pretend to indulge him.) --Tryptofish (talk) 01:01, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

You have my permission to pronounce it any way you like in the privacy of your own mind. E Eng 01:24, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Now that's a horrible place indeed! Sometimes, even I am afraid to look in there without medication! Or IPA. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:38, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

And it may not be possible without a microscope or magnifying glass. Listen, maybe you could help out at bit at Officially unrecognized Harvard College social clubs (which I just moved from Final club) -- ? E Eng 02:16, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Actually, like an ideal gas, I fill all available space, no optics needed. As for that page, I just took a look, and blech! It's a subject that annoys me so much that I don't want to edit it. About the disputed content, I agree with you that it will be source-able (pretty much all verified by my micro mind), but you can probably wait until you get sources before reverting it back in. And I think the new pagename is too long and kludgy. How about Harvard social clubs for wealthy inbred misogynists? --Tryptofish (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Gas, perhaps. Ideal, hardly. Re the other, I agree with you in general except... my roommate was a Porc, and I never knew a better bunch of guys. It seems to be different from the others. Pagename is awkward but I do think the whole group belongs in one discussion. You gotta hand it to the administration in how they're cleverly putting the screws on with this no-leadership, no-recommendation thing. It's masterful. E Eng 00:16, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

So, ideally, is that Porc with a hard C (oink!), or a soft C? Or a C-minor? --Tryptofish (talk) 01:15, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Apparently, I have been using the "also US" pronunciation. I pronounce clang, fang, and bang the same way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Eman 235/talk 20:52, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

And how are you on sweet poontang? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:58, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Y'all better not let Martinevans take you down the wrong road. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:49, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

I was going to say... there are limits, Martin. E Eng 00:16, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

I'll have you know I saw Ted at the Cardiff Capitol, back in the 70s, when the roof had to be reinforced against his decibel level! ... and my ears have never been the same since. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:59, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Phineas Gage runs into a bar...

Question: What was the thickness of that iron rod? Answer: Phineas Gauge. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:34, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Puns are for children, not groan readers. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:12, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

And it's not the first time that reading Wikipedia has made people groan. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:04, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

"And with you two around, it won't be the last, hahahaha". Martinevans123 (talk)

Completely unimportant

With regards to this comment, I think this may be a fun read for you: Wikipedia:No self attacks. Cheers, ansh 666 21:39, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Talk page stalkers! Now's your chance!

EEng, who the hell cares what *you* think?

From a now-ongoing ANI thread (the actual subject of which is irrelevant here):

Dane2007, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I seem to agree with EEng on this one. Is there some additional context missing here? TimothyJosephWood 11:18, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

This is maybe the third time today I'm getting the "Impossible-as-it-may-seem-I-agree-with-EEng" treatment. When did I become the personification of heterodoxy? E Eng 15:13, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

You can...come off as...abrasive... TimothyJosephWood 23:35, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

I prefer to think of it as being "direct"... E Eng 02:26, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

You can...also...come off as...self absorbed. TimothyJosephWood 00:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Talk page stalkers, your honest thoughts are solicited on the comments above. If you wish, log out and comment anonymously (and I promise I won't geolocate the IP). Thanks, E Eng

Self absorption is a necessary characteristic of the stereotypical Wikipedia editor. Blackmane (talk) 02:18, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Correction: YOU won't geolocate the IP. I guarantee it. Cards84664 (talk) 02:52, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Um, isn't that what I said? E Eng 03:11, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Hell, I don't even know what we're commenting on. Is it the fact that, judging from timestamps, it took TimothyJosephWood 22 hours to read your user page? (I admit that seems a bit speedy, doesn't it?) The rest seems pretty run-of-the-mill, no? Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 03:17, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

No, thoughts are being solicited on the idea that I'm <sniff> abrasive and self-absorbed. I mean, that might even be true, but I'd always hoped no one here on WP would notice. E Eng 03:26, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Well, in my experience, the only abrasion I've been met with is a rash on my index finger from scrolling through your userspace. And as for the "self-absorbed" aspect, it may have something to do with the fact that it took TimothyJosephWood 22 hours to read your userpage. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 03:37, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Oh, oh! A spark of creativity... (see image) Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 21:31, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Timothy. (Joke, I actually agree with him a lot.) --Tryptofish (talk) 14:21, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Meh, I'm too busy with myself to be concerned about you. Mr rnddude (talk) 02:35, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

That's hysterical. E Eng 02:40, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

^[FBDB]Why, that loggerheaded dismal-dreaming clotpole!! Doesn't he know that abrasives make things smoother in the long run? Eman 235/talk 11:12, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

"Dear Mr Trump, I wonder could you please send over a few of your Mexican friends? About 13 should be enough. Thanks. " Theresamay123 (White Cliffs of Westminster) 21:56, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

"Hey bitches!!" (Does my mascara make me look suitably despicable??) William Sledd123 (serious bitchin') 22:29, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Grammar

Hi, I admire your hook wizardry, but your grammar tweaks leave something to be desired. I'm not an English teacher, so I can't say what grammar rules are being violated here, but changing "one of the few journalists in the world who has met..." to "one of the few journalists in the world to have met" is not proper English. You wouldn't say "EEng is one of the few DYK editors to write super hooks", but "EEng is one of the few DYK editors who (or "that") writes super hooks". Similarly, if you want to add the word "its" to "...that Wash's Restaurant served up soul food dishes to Atlantic City beach-goers by day and its nightclub-hoppers by night?" there should have been a possessive on "Atlantic City": "... that Wash's Restaurant served up soul food dishes to Atlantic City's beach-goers by day and its nightclub-hoppers by night?" I undid my correction of your correction to the first hook out of politeness, but maybe I shouldn't have. Yoninah (talk) 22:03, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm. I never thought about it before, but "The only journalist to have done/seen/overcome X" might very well be nonstandard; however, it's certainly in American usage.

As for Atlantic City, construction doesn't always have to be parallel. I remember thinking about adding the same 's you suggest, but I was on my phone, and it was late, and I was tired, and ... I think I had some other rationalization. It's not egregious as it stands, but I should have pressed on and added the possessive. I do depend on my esteemed fellow editors to keep an eye on me.

Coming up: see Template:Did you know nominations/Newell Boathouse (Harvard University) and ALT2 at Template:Did you know nominations/Tommy Tucker (squirrel). (You'd be welcome to do a couple of reviews, of course -- hint, hint.) But, sadly, nothing will ever recapture the glory of the CEO grilled on the witness stand. Thanks for stopping by, Yoninah, and have you visited The Museums lately? Oh, and User:EEng#dyk too. E Eng 22:47, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

"The only one to [verb]" (or the "one of the few" phrasing that started this) is perfectly grammatical, even if one is a prescriptivist rather than a descriptivist. This construction is called a relative infinitive clause, or an infinitival relative clause. See e.g. [36]. I don't think it has anything to do with American vs British usage; Shakespeare used it, in Henry VI part I: "the only means to stop effusion of our Christian blood". —David Eppstein (talk) 23:22, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Well, it's all Greek to me. Thanks, D.E. I momentarily doubted myself because I had trouble finding good examples via Google. So there, Yoninah! Shakespeare and (more importantly) Professor Eppstein back me up! ;P E Eng 23:38, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

@David Eppstein: Thanks for the grammar lesson and the page cite. Yoninah (talk) 20:27, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Spelling

Hello, EEng -- I've seen that you are active on other MOS talk pages, so I wonder if you would take a look at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Spelling. I have posed a few questions there but have not received any reply. Thanks. – Corinne (talk) 17:29, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Done. E Eng 18:31, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

[1] Porch light out – elevator doesn't reach the top floor anymore – screw loose – lost their marbles – knitting with only one needle – Rolls Royce chassis, moped engine – set design by Norman Rockwell, screenplay by Stephen King.

[1]