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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) at 04:14, 27 June 2017 (Archiving 6 discussion(s) from Talk:Ted Kennedy) (bot). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Archive 5←Archive 8Archive 9Archive 10

First Congressional Website

There are several sources that indicate Kennedy was the first member of Congress to have an official site on the Web. However, I do not know where to insert such a mention in this article.[a][b]

There is also an image on Flickr[c] which purports to be a screenshot that some other sources have picked up on but, I can not verify the authenticity of this image. If it is indeed a screenshot of Mr. Kennedy's page used for official business or communication, then it is in the public domain and may be included; if it is a personal page then only a fair-use rationale may be exercised. When entering the URL displayed in the image using the Internet Archive,[d] the earliest revision is of a page from 1996, which is entirely blank except for a hyperlink and message saying the page was moved to http://www.senate.gov/~kennedy

I do not think it needs to be extensive but, a mention would seem to be worthy for inclusion. -- dsprc [talk] 02:00, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

  1. ^ http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2008/05/22/ted-kennedy-internet-pioneer/
  2. ^ http://betaboston.com/news/2014/06/02/20-years-ago-today-senator-edward-m-kennedy-launched-the-first-congressional-webpage/
  3. ^ https://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscasey/88469928/sizes/o/in/set-72057594050623806/
  4. ^ https://web.archive.org/web/19961220015930/http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/Kennedy/homepage.html
If I understand correctly, the underlying source for this 'first' is this guy Chris Casey, who was the sys admin who set up Kennedy's website. It would be nice to have a corroborating source from a disinterested party. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Indeed. I have located a piece by Newsweek[1] from 1995 (plain-text google cache copy) which discusses not just Kennedy having the first Congressional property on the Web, but also the technical exploits of Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, Lamar Alexander among others (an interesting read). This may backup Casey's claim as it specifically mentions them by name; the book Media and Democracy (gbooks) published in 1995 seems to lend legitimacy as well (page 165, here on Google Books (scripting required)) since it mentions the MIT AI Lab facilitating these efforts. WP:The Wikipedia Library may be able to dig out references from other print publications of that era as well. However, I don't even know how to request for WP Lib to search for them (or even if they cast such a broad net). -- dsprc [talk] 04:37, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Heh, I also found this if you go up one spot in the directory: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/Kennedy/
There is a file named 'homepage.old' if you save that and tack on .html to the end of it, you can see the site in all of its 1994/5-ish "glory" :) The basic structure is there, just all the sub-pages and images are gone. Seems Casey had an @senate.gov address so probably a staffer. There is also this: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/home-page.html linked on the bottom, which explains some of it, and states: "This project ran from October 1, 1993 to October 1, 1997". "The project grows out of an experiment run during the 1992 Presidential election, when mail agents distributed campaign information, collected questions from citizens, and allowed volunteers to organize." "Working with local politicians, project members developed the first Web site for a US Senator, Senator Kennedy..." Neat stuff. :) -- dsprc [talk] 05:08, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Okay thanks, that's what I was looking for, especially the Newsweek piece which speaks to its importance. I've added text about this to the article, using that and the MIT AI Lab page as sources. But I'm not sure about using the screenshot; the Flickr image is copyrighted to Casey – was he a federal employee or a contractor? – and the site may have actually been owned by the MIT lab for all we know. Images put up on congressional websites have often fallen into a grey area in this regard. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:33, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm glad you found a place to insert the mention; article is pretty dense. :) AFAIK, the image seems to be public domain. I think the portions which are not PD are those which comprise Netscape Navigator, which may or may not fall under the Mozilla Public License or Netscape Public License (which is mostly the same). Mayhaps is better for WP:Media copyright questions to sort it out. -- dsprc [talk] 04:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
This later version of the Website [2] was served up by senate.gov servers so is most certainly official. It also has the same structure of the homepage.old file linked above. There are other revisions/images in Casey's Congress Web Archive album as well [3]. (IIRC, "all rights reserved" is the default setting for content uploaded to Flickr but, that makes no difference if it turns out to be PD) -- dsprc [talk] 04:14, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't have enough confidence in the PD status of the image (or the later one) to upload it myself, but if you do, or you get a favorable response from your WP:MCQ query, go ahead and then add the image to the article. It would certainly be an interesting and different image from the kind we usually see in political biographies. One possible precedent is File:John McCain pork.png, which was added by someone and has been in the McCain article for a long time. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:54, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Senator / Senior Senator

Kennedy was both the Junior Senator and the Senior Senator during his lifetime. While he was still alive and in office, it made sense for his biography to list him as the current senior Senator. Now that he is out of office (and dead), the biography should be more focused on his life as a whole, and it makes more sense to just call him a senator, since his time as junior senator is in no way distinct from his time as senior senator. In fact, the transition from junior senator to senior (in 1967) is an event so completely without consequence that it does not even merit a mention in the article. Compare that to Associate Justices of the Supreme Court who were later elevated to Chief Justice. They are (rightly) listed first in their biographies as Chief Justices, but their biographies prominently mention their elevation to Chief Justice and treat their time as Chief Justice as a distinct position from their time as Associate Justice. Either Kennedy should be listed as just a senator, or the article should be modified to detail his ascent to senior senator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.113.122.120 (talk) 15:52, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I agree, the lead should not say "senior senator", it's not an important distinction now and it's just text left over from when he was still alive. I've spot-checked the articles of several long-serving senators – for the past ones Robert Byrd, Daniel Inouye, Strom Thurmond, Carl Hayden, John C. Stennis, and Ted Stevens none of them say "senior senator" in their leads although obviously they probably were for much of their time – only articles about current senators such as Patrick Leahy and Orrin Hatch say it. I think @Calidum:'s restoration of this was mistaken. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:57, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
Hearing no further views on this, I have removed the "senior". Wasted Time R (talk) 13:00, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

How did this come to light?

I see the following, inserted ahead of the Spanish-test incident which got both Ted Kennedy and the friend who took that test expelled:

"In his first semester, Kennedy and his friends arranged to copy answers from another student during the final examination for a science class."

Presumably this wasn't detected back then. The (later) expulsion came back to haunt Ted Kennedy as he ran for the U.S. Senate for 1st time in 1962, but how did this earlier item come to light? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.20 (talk) 20:35, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

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