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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Dragfyre (talk | contribs) at 01:57, 7 July 2017 (→Section merge to Capital punishment#Religious Views). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Bahá'í Faith

The original edition to this section is as follows....

Main article: Bahá'í laws

The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, the central book of the Bahá'í Faith written by Bahá'u'lláh, condemns arsonists to death by immolation, stating "Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn."[1] The Universal House of Justice, the supreme governing institution of the Bahá'í Faith, has stated that some punishments, such as for arson, are intended for a future condition of society, at which time they will be supplemented and applied by the Universal House of Justice.[2][3]

The full quote from the Kitáb-i-Aqdas states: "Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn; should anyone deliberately take another’s life, him also shall ye put to death." It is only the comments section of one of the translation editions that states "alternative of life imprisonment." Regards, A35821361 (talk) 23:39, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The original quote from Baha'u'llah, paragraph 62 of the Kitab-i-Aqdas: "Should anyone intentionally desteroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn... Should ye condemn the arsonist and the murderer to life imprisonment, it would be permissible..."
You are misquoting the source. You are also using primary sources and verging on WP:OR if you attempt at interpreting it or providing misleading, partial quotes. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 04:31, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The quote provided was the full quote, not a partial quote. Regards, A35821361 (talk) 05:14, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Bahá'u'lláh (1873). The Kitáb-i-Aqdas: The Most Holy Book. Wilmette, Illinois, USA: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. p. 204. ISBN 0-85398-999-0.
  2. ^ Smith, Peter (2008-04-07). An Introduction to the Baha'i Faith. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 172. ISBN 0-521-86251-5. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  3. ^ Universal House of Justice. "Laws from the Kitab-i-Aqdas Not Yet Binding".

I've rewritten this section incorporating the points of view of both Cuñado and A35821361, as well as references provided by both of them. The quotes from the Kitáb-i-Aqdas and its commentary have been moved into the References section; while they are of interest, the main text does a good enough job of summing up the intent of the law and its applicability. Moreover, there are no quotes that would be notable enough for inclusion in the main body of the article; since the law is not yet binding, there has never been an example of death by burning as applied under Bahá'í law. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 19:00, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As mentioned on both of your talk pages, please discuss any further changes to this section here on the talk page, and refrain from making any further undiscussed edits. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 14:31, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think it could be improved upon but it's good enough as is. The original addition was misquoting the source, and that is fixed. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 20:30, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Including the quote "Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn" is not a misquote, but a direct quote, as the punishment is unambiguously dictated in the text of the Aqdas, however objectionable it may be or however much you may wish to mitigate its harshness. Regards, A35821361 (talk) 02:27, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The point isn't that the quote is not a direct one; it's that quoting it without the surrounding context distorts its meaning. Paragraph 62 of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, in its entirety, reads as follows:
"Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn; should anyone deliberately take another’s life, him also shall ye put to death. Take ye hold of the precepts of God with all your strength and power, and abandon the ways of the ignorant. Should ye condemn the arsonist and the murderer to life imprisonment, it would be permissible according to the provisions of the Book. He, verily, hath power to ordain whatsoever He pleaseth."
That's not all, though. Quoting this paragraph without also highlighting that this law is not presently binding upon Bahá'ís could mislead the reader into thinking that immolation is currently applied by Bahá'ís as a punishment for arson, whereas, as I've noted above, there has never been an example of death by burning as applied under Bahá'í law. In fact, this makes me question why you feel this should be included in this article at all, as the rest of the article lists actual examples of people being burned to death, and not policies which could, in the fullness of time, eventually lead to people being burned to death. I submit that a better place for this information would be in the article on capital punishment, in the "religious views" section.
By the way, including enough meaningful context to allow readers to gain a better understanding of the nature of Bahá'í law and its present, real-world applicability isn't called "mitigating the harshness" of an "objectionable" law, it's called being truthful and objective. I'm sure that as a Wikipedia editor, you're interested in helping the project maintain its objectivity. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 03:34, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Section merge to Capital punishment

As noted in the discussion above, I propose to merge the section on the Bahá'í Faith into the article on capital punishment, in the "religious views" section. The rationale for this move is that the present article is about actual deaths caused by burning, and since there has never been an example of death by burning as applied under Bahá'í law, this section is out of place. Furthermore, the Bahá'í Faith is not currently represented in the destination article, and adding a section about it in that article would allow for a more thorough and balanced discussion of capital punishment and its place in Bahá'í law. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 01:53, 7 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

unsourced pop trivia

Preserving here by providing this link. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:54, 4 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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