Talk:Chinese astrology

Conflicting Statements?

In the introduction, I read, “Chinese astrology does not calculate the positions of the sun, moon and planets at the time of birth”. Yet, in the background section, I'm reading “According to Chinese astrology, a person's destiny can be determined by the position of the major planets at the person's birth along with the positions of the Sun, Moon and comets and the person's time of birth and Zodiac Sign” These two statements seem to be a direct contradiction to each other.

I don't know when you made that statement because you forgot signing with four tildes ~~~~. The error is still there. Actually, I think the initial claim is a little off-topical, the birth date and planetary positions then determine the horo(r)scope, whether they're calculated or looked-up in a table is irrelevant. I'll trash it. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 15:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

 Done. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 15:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

All the characters are incorrect.

I have checked a few of the subheadings (year of the Dragon, Rat, Goat, etc.) and *all* of the chinese characters shown are incorrect. I have tried to provide links to a few wiktionary entries of the correct characters, but I can't figure out how to do it and I don't have the time.

Can someone please fix this error or help me? It's embarrassing for wikipedia to be so wrong for so long. These character changes were made (in some cases) over a year ago.Lesotho 03:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Please. Again. All of the non-elemental characters in this article as well are wrong (Ox, Goat, Rat, etc.). Please change them. I will help, if need be. Lesotho 11:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you just change them yourself? — Sam 00:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Sam, that's a "helpful" resolution. Clearly, it's because I cannot. I can find the appropriate characters in wiktionary, but I can't figure out how to input characters directly. Again, any help is appreciated.Lesotho 01:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean to be condescending; I apologize. I just assumed if you had the knowledge of the characters to know they were incorrect then you knew enough to fix them. How about we move them here until someone is able to make the corrections? — Sam 01:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Mutual online misunderstanding...now there's a first :P

Again, these changes need to be propagated through all the individual pages as well, not just on this main page. These wiktionary entries are correct and provide the Kangxi radical numbers...I just don't know how to input that. Anyone please help!

Here goes:

Rat should be shu3: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%BC%A0

Ox should be niu2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%89%9B

Tiger should be hu3: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%99%8E

Rabbit should be tu4: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%85%94

Dragon should be long2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%BE%8D

Snake should be she2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%9B%87

Horse should be ma3: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%A9%AC

Goat should be yang2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%BE%8A

Monkey should be hou2: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%8C%B4

Rooster should be ji1: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%B8%A1

Dog should be gou3: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%8B%97

Pig should be zhu1: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%8C%AA

Actually, I noticed that the elements in the table are wrong too, but (miraculously?) they are actually correct on the individual pages. I will go after that later.

Lesotho 02:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you not just copy and paste? On my system it copies and pastes the characters into the article with no issue. — Sam 02:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe check this link for more info: http://www.thailex.info/THAILEX/THAILEXENG/LEXICON/Chinese%20zodiac%20chronology%20table.htm

If want can add as external, link up-to-you.

	1924 - 1983	Heavenly stem	Earthly branch	1984 - 2043
	Year	(Elements)	(Animals)	Year
1	Feb 05 1924 - Jan 23 1925	甲 Yang Wood	子 Rat	Feb 02 1984 - Feb 19 1985
2	Jan 24 1925 - Feb 11 1926	乙 Yin Wood	丑 Ox	Feb 20 1985 - Feb 08 1986
3	Feb 12 1926 - Feb 01 1927	丙 Yang Fire	寅 Tiger	Feb 09 1986 - Jan 28 1987
4	Feb 02 1927 - Jan 21 1928	丁 Yin Fire	卯 Rabbit	Jan 29 1987 - Feb 16 1988
5	Jan 22 1928 - Feb 08 1929	戊 Yang Earth	辰 Dragon	Feb 17 1988 - Feb 05 1989
6	Feb 09 1929 - Jan 28 1930	己 Yin Earth	巳 Snake	Feb 06 1989 - Jan 25 1990
7	Jan 29 1930 - Feb 16 1931	庚 Yang Metal	午 Horse	Jan 26 1990 - Feb 13 1991
8	Feb 17 1931 - Feb 05 1932	辛 Yin Metal	未 Goat	Feb 14 1991 - Feb 02 1992
9	Feb 06 1932 - Jan 24 1933	壬 Yang Water	申 Monkey	Feb 03 1992 - Jan 21 1993
10	Jan 25 1933 - Feb 13 1934	癸 Yin Water	酉 Rooster	Jan 22 1993 - Feb 09 1994
11	Feb 14 1934 - Feb 02 1935	甲 Yang Wood	戌 Dog	Feb 10 1994 - Jan 30 1995
12	Feb 03 1935 - Jan 23 1936	乙 Yin Wood	亥 Pig	Jan 31 1995 - Feb 18 1996
13	Jan 24 1936 - Feb 10 1937	丙 Yang Fire	子 Rat	Feb 19 1996 - Feb 06 1997
14	Feb 11 1937 - Jan 30 1938	丁 Yin Fire	丑 Ox	Feb 07 1997 - Jan 27 1998
15	Jan 31 1938 - Feb 18 1939	戊 Yang Earth	寅 Tiger	Jan 28 1998 - Feb 15 1999
16	Feb 19 1939 - Feb 07 1940	己 Yin Earth	卯 Rabbit	Feb 16 1999 - Feb 04 2000
17	Feb 08 1940 - Jan 26 1941	庚 Yang Metal	辰 Dragon	Feb 05 2000 - Jan 23 2001
18	Jan 27 1941 - Feb 14 1942	辛 Yin Metal	巳 Snake	Jan 24 2001 - Feb 11 2002
19	Feb 15 1942 - Feb 03 1943	壬 Yang Water	午 Horse	Feb 12 2002 - Jan 31 2003
20	Feb 04 1943 - Jan 24 1944	癸 Yin Water	未 Goat	Feb 01 2003 - Jan 21 2004
21	Jan 25 1944 - Feb 11 1945	甲 Yang Wood	申 Monkey	Jan 22 2004 - Feb 08 2005
22	Feb 12 1945 - Feb 01 1946	乙 Yin Wood	酉 Rooster	Feb 09 2005 - Jan 28 2006
23	Feb 02 1946 - Jan 21 1947	丙 Yang Fire	戌 Dog	Jan 29 2006 - Feb 17 2007
24	Jan 22 1947 - Feb 09 1948	丁 Yin Fire	亥 Pig	Feb 18 2007 - Feb 06 2008
25	Feb 10 1948 - Jan 28 1949	戊 Yang Earth	子 Rat	Feb 07 2008 - Jan 25 2009
26	Jan 29 1949 - Feb 15 1950	己 Yin Earth	丑 Ox	Jan 26 2009 - Feb 13 2010
27	Feb 16 1950 - Feb 05 1951	庚 Yang Metal	寅 Tiger	Feb 14 2010 - Feb 02 2011
28	Feb 06 1951 - Jan 25 1952	辛 Yin Metal	卯 Rabbit	Feb 03 2011 - Jan 22 2012
29	Jan 26 1952 - Feb 13 1953	壬 Yang Water	辰 Dragon	Jan 23 2012 - Feb 09 2013
30	Feb 14 1953 - Feb 02 1954	癸 Yin Water	巳 Snake	Feb 10 2013 - Jan 30 2014
31	Feb 03 1954 - Jan 23 1955	甲 Yang Wood	午 Horse	Jan 31 2014 - Feb 18 2015
32	Jan 24 1955 - Feb 10 1956	乙 Yin Wood	未 Goat	Feb 19 2015 - Feb 07 2016
33	Feb 11 1956 - Jan 29 1957	丙 Yang Fire	申 Monkey	Feb 08 2016 - Jan 27 2017
34	Jan 30 1957 - Feb 17 1958	丁 Yin Fire	酉 Rooster	Jan 28 2017 - Feb 18 2018
35	Feb 18 1958 - Feb 06 1959	戊 Yang Earth	戌 Dog	Feb 19 2018 - Feb 04 2019
36	Feb 07 1959 - Jan 27 1960	己 Yin Earth	亥 Pig	Feb 05 2019 - Jan 24 2020
37	Jan 28 1960 - Feb 14 1961	庚 Yang Metal	子 Rat	Jan 25 2020 - ~~ 2021
38	Feb 15 1961 - Feb 04 1962	辛 Yin Metal	丑 Ox	~~ 2021 - ~~ 2022
39	Feb 05 1962 - Jan 24 1963	壬 Yang Water	寅 Tiger	~~ 2022 - ~~ 2023
40	Jan 25 1963 - Feb 12 1964	癸 Yin Water	卯 Rabbit	~~ 2023 - ~~ 2024
41	Feb 13 1964 - Jan 31 1965	甲 Yang Wood	辰 Dragon	~~ 2024 - ~~ 2025
42	Feb 01 1965 - Jan 20 1966	乙 Yin Wood	巳 Snake	~~ 2025 - ~~ 2026
43	Jan 21 1966 - Feb 08 1967	丙 Yang Fire	午 Horse	~~ 2026 - ~~ 2027
44	Feb 09 1967 - Jan 28 1968	丁 Yin Fire	未 Goat	~~ 2027 - ~~ 2028
45	Jan 29 1968 - Feb 15 1969	戊 Yang Earth	申 Monkey	~~ 2028 - ~~ 2029
46	Feb 16 1969 - Feb 05 1970	己 Yin Earth	酉 Rooster	~~ 2029 - ~~ 2030
47	Feb 06 1970 - Jan 25 1971	庚 Yang Metal	戌 Dog	~~ 2030 - ~~ 2031
48	Jan 26 1971 - Feb 14 1972	辛 Yin Metal	亥 Pig	~~ 2031 - ~~ 2032
49	Feb 15 1972 - Feb 02 1973	壬 Yang Water	子 Rat	~~ 2032 - ~~ 2033
50	Feb 03 1973 - Jan 23 1974	癸 Yin Water	丑 Ox	~~ 2033 - ~~ 2034
51	Jan 24 1974 - Feb 10 1975	甲 Yang Wood	寅 Tiger	~~ 2034 - ~~ 2035
52	Feb 11 1975 - Jan 30 1976	乙 Yin Wood	卯 Rabbit	~~ 2035 - ~~ 2036
53	Jan 31 1976 - Feb 17 1977	丙 Yang Fire	辰 Dragon	~~ 2036 - ~~ 2037
54	Feb 18 1977 - Feb 06 1978	丁 Yin Fire	巳 Snake	~~ 2037 - ~~ 2038
55	Feb 07 1978 - Jan 27 1979	戊 Yang Earth	午 Horse	~~ 2038 - ~~ 2039
56	Jan 28 1979 - Feb 15 1980	己 Yin Earth	未 Goat	~~ 2039 - ~~ 2040
57	Feb 16 1980 - Feb 04 1981	庚 Yang Metal	申 Monkey	~~ 2040 - ~~ 2041
58	Feb 05 1981 - Jan 24 1982	辛 Yin Metal	酉 Rooster	~~ 2041 - ~~ 2042
59	Jan 25 1982 - Feb 12 1983	壬 Yang Water	戌 Dog	~~ 2042 - ~~ 2043
60	Feb 13 1983 - Feb 01 1984	癸 Yin Water	亥 Pig	~~ 2043 - ~~ 2044

— Sam 03:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The characters are the correct calendar symbols. See note at the beginning of the section. I am restoring the characters to the table. 63.193.118.25 11:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I understand your rationale, but I believe it is misleading. When you look at several other wikipedia pages relating to this topic, they use this as a source material and don't read past the first section (evidently). As such, they use the *astrological* denotations in lieu of the *character* designations for Dog, Rat, Goat, etc. and claim "it is internally consistent within Wikipedia". Would it be acceptable to put the standard mandarin character table first followed by the astrological table?Lesotho 19:05, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't anyone understand? Those Chinese Characters aren't incorrect! They're only used for astrology; not for normal writing!

Characters are correct

Each year, the animal is called something else. So Rabbit might not be 兔子，or 甲子 next year, but it might be something else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fushy (talk • contribs) 23:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

The months - the inner animals

The article states: "The 12 animals also apply to the lunar months. The month born affects a person's inner animal, as stated above. Remember, the Chinese calendar is offset to start in the traditional February, or even in early March." But in the table that follows, it seems to be matching the animals up with solar months, and not lunar ones - after all, if they were lunar months, the dates should vary each year - in the table, the dates don't vary. Can someone clarify or fix this? Jimhoward72 19:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, the article is not clear in explaining why the Rat - the first animal, is assigned to the 11th lunar month - which is around December. Why is the Rat not assigned to the 1st lunar month - which is around February? A person reading this article for information, has difficulty figuring this out from the current article.Jimhoward72 19:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the current article is quite confusing. My daughter asked about this and when I looked it up, the chart seems to have overlapping dates? It makes no sense to me.--Jimbo Wales 02:14, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I agree the dates overlap... somebody is stupid!

Tore Calendar

3. Kuman (Imén)

This appears between the Ox and Tiger on the Tore calendar. What is this? It took me forever to find that the first, Saravana, is the Rat, and the rest are all in order. How come nothing else ever mentions something between the Ox and Tiger? And what's the source on this thing anyway? I can't find a single website with this that didn't copy it from Wikipedia! 69.220.2.188 03:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

4. It's the cat or the cat's placement if it had been allowed into the calender. I don't know why it is like that here. It is a very weird way of putting it on the calender. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.86.133 (talk) 21:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Comets

It mentioned in the leading paragraph that comets are used in calculating chinese horoscopes, but they aren't mentioned again in the article. Could someone explain, even as a one line answer, what the role of comets are? 137.111.219.14 23:27, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Chinese agricultural calendar

What happens between jan 04 and feb 03. I noticed that in column "begin" its feb 04, and in column "end" its jan 03. So whats with people born between jan 04 and feb 03. Or they don't have a sign by Chinese agricultural calendar Requiem mn (talk) 14:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

May be its a mistake in this table. But I don't think this "agriculrual calendar" is used for determining the sign. People born before the Chinese New Year, but after the gregorian new year are still considered to be born with the sign of the Chinese year that hasn't ended yet. tess (talk) 18:46, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there an authoritative source for this calendar? Is it a 30 year cycle (as it appears in the table)? What purpose does it serve in terms of astrology? -- Robocoder (t|c) 00:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Cat years

According to the legend, the cat was not included in the zodiac, but due to its naturally tricky nature, it "sneaks" into the zodiac anyway; for instance, the year 1989 and 2002 (this is under the Gregorian calendar, rather than the Chinese calendar, so it is merely an example) are cat years because their number is divisible by 13. These years are also Snake and Horse years, respectively, so the person under this zodiac would have traits associated with both the cat and the animal they are born under. Because this is a thirteen year cycle, rather than a 12 year one, each time the cat advances by one place, going until it gets to the end of the cycle. The following years are divisible by 13 (using the Chinese calendar, ending with the divisible year at Chinese New Year): (1903-1904) - Dragon, (1916-1917) - Snake, (1929-1930) - Horse, (1942-1943) - Goat, (1955-1956) - Monkey, (1968-1969) - Rooster, (1982-1983) - Dog, (1994-1995) - Pig, (2007-2008) - Rat, (2020-2021) - Ox, (2033-2034) - Tiger, (2046-2047) - Rabbit

I was wondering where this came from. I can't find any sources on the internet, except Wikipedia. If I'm not mistaken, it's not even on the Chinese or Japanese pages. JadziaLover 01:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't know. I've never heard of it. (I grew up in Hong Kong.) And I just removed the following ref info:

This is not part of horoscope mythology, but rather something that happens mathematically. Every 13 years, the zodiac cycle advances by one (Rat to Ox for instance), and the year that this includes is divisible by such under the Chinese calendar. Since, cats are widely considered unlucky creatures, and 13 is an unlucky number, this phenomenon of divisibility by 13 is referred to as a "cat year."

13 is not considered unlucky in Chinese tradition tess (talk) 18:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Isn't that equivelent to the Western Zodiac's "Serpentarius"? Which falls between Scorpio and Sagittarius? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.149.132 (talk) 07:05, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Date

I thought 2008 is the Year of the Rat? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neobattle2 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

It is the year of the Rat beginning on February the 7th 2008.

Pig or boar?

Some places on the page say "boar" and others say "Pig". I was trying to reconcile why boar did not appear on the list of twelve. I was wondering if there was a preferred English word or if there needs to be a dual entry in the tables and lists. --DeweyQ (talk) 20:35, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, sheep, lamb or Goat? I saw a major error where instead of any of these three, the chinese character was translated as CAT! Fixed up now. My Oxford University Press Chinese-English Dictionary (2nd ed) translates it as sheep. Lamb would be a young sheep and Goat would be a related animal from mountainous areas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.125.45 (talk) 13:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• For the Pig/boar question: I've heard the sign being referred to as "Pig" more often than boar. Which is not to say that boar doesn't pop up - it is merely less common in usage than "Pig" when referring to the Chinese zodiac sign. And for the sheep/lamb/Goat: it is possible that someone somewhere may actually use it, but I have never heard "lamb" used in reference. Between Goat and sheep, I have heard "sheep" more often, but the two have been used interchangeably more often than Pig/boar. I hope this helps. Ultatri (talk) 17:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Chinese is confusing. I prefer Western Astrology. It doesn't lie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nm1119 (talk • contribs) 04:26, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

The Chinese characters for these animals are collective words. One can regard them as word-roots as well. "Zhi" or "Zhu" for Pig/boar are literally more accurate if translated as "swine" (without its condemning sense). Pig can be referred as "Domestic Zhu" and boar is usually called "feral Zhu". Same goes for the sheep/lamb/Goat (Yang). Sheep is "wool Yang", lamb is "baby Yang" and Goat is "mountain Yang". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.223.23.102 (talk) 20:25, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Conception chart

There's an orphaned stub about a 13th century Chinese conception chart that I think relates to this topic, but I don't know how to integrate it into this article. If you think it's appropriate to include a link to this article, then please add it (and please then delete the orphan tag from the article). Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Add the Tibetan calendar?

The Tibetan calendar seems like another derivative, almost the same animals and the same order. I also found a source that links them, [1]

Yin Yang Element

• If the year ends in 0 it is Yang Metal.
• If the year ends in 1 it is Yin Metal.
• If the year ends in 2 it is Yang Water.
• If the year ends in 3 it is Yin Water.
• If the year ends in 4 it is Yang Wood.
• If the year ends in 5 it is Yin Wood.
• If the year ends in 6 it is Yang Fire.
• If the year ends in 7 it is Yin Fire.
• If the year ends in 8 it is Yang Earth.
• If the year ends in 9 it is Yin Earth.

I never heard of this as a Chinese. I was born in 1984 and I know that year (甲子) is labeled as 'Metal in the Sea' (海中金). But according to Wiki, that year is Yang Wood. Is this table really of Chinese origin. Also, I can't find it in Chinese Wikipedia.--Haofangjia (talk) 01:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

And will someone PLEASE post the characteristics for wood? I never got why they have a wood as a seperate element. As far as I know, wood IS part of the earth. Trees are earth. wood comes from trees. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nm1119 (talk • contribs) 04:28, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Deleted External Link

I've deleted the link to a site called Chinese zodiac Horoscope. The justification for its inclusion from the previous user was because the site included a 'calculator' that helped a user ascertain one's zodiac sign. Call me crazy, but external links should be included as to 'add' value to a page, not be redundant. If anyone wanted to find their sign, just use CTRL+F and search with one's birth year. An external link like CZH draws this article closer to its previous versions where the External Links section became way too long because every link became useful because of some tiny interesting but useless aspect. Ultatri (talk) 02:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

WHAT ARE COMBINATION ELEMENTS?

Question moved from article body in HTML comment - no one will see it there Astronaut (talk) 20:06, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

88.105.69.205 21:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

East-West Profile

There is a website that has the Chinese astrology combined with the original astrology, called the East-West Profile. Here's the website.--Angeldeb82 (talk) 02:53, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Should the title of this article have been changed?

I'm new to editing Wikipedia, so I don't want to undo large edits if I'm inexperienced. However, a number of reasons leave me uneasy about the change in the title's article. The main one is that the article is about Chinese astrology, not necessarily the twelve zodiac animals. The second is conformity--all the rest of the astrology articles are named accordingly.

Comments?

-Pseudonym 101 (talk) 04:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Why is this article title called "Birthpet"?! It should have been "Chinese astrology"! --Angeldeb82 (talk) 04:35, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree that the move should not have happened. The mover's rationale was "Keep the languages the same", presumably referring to parity with the Chinese version of this page. But I think consistency with all the other astrology pages in the English Wikipedia takes precedence. Unfortunately, we can't easily move this back to Chinese astrology because there's a redirect page there now. That redirect page has been marked for speedy delete, so we can move this back. --ToastyKen (talk) 06:31, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Categorizations of the twelve signs

Can we have an explanation above the section Categorizations of the twelve signs? I don't understand it at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BaboonOfTheYard (talk • contribs) 21:50, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

---

The 5-element(五行) in the "Table of the sixty year calendar" appears to be ALL WRONG? I also noted that some books written by certain "feng-shui master" also had those problems. The first in the 60-year cycle starts from "甲子" which is a Metal Rat (not Wooden Rat as shown), in which case the Heavenly stem (天干) is 甲, the Earthly Branch (地支) is 子; the combined notation (天干地支) is 甲子; the 5-element (五行) is Metal (金); and the associated animal (属相) is Rat. It is also the first of the pair and it is correctly stated as Yang. Please refer http://www.nongli.com/Doc/0409/19163721.htm for more details. Can someone confirm this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piranha-8 (talk • contribs) 04:04, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

---

My apology, after some readings, the 5-elements stated in the table is not wrong! but they are the 5-elements for the Animals only (十二生肖属相); There are separate element properties for Heavenly stems (天干), and separate element properties for Earthly Branches (地支) and also different element properties for the 60 items produced from the combination of heavenly stem and earthly branch (按干支结合生出的五行为纳音五行)! Those element properties for the Animals (鼠属水，牛属土，虎属木，兔属木，龙属土，蛇属火，马属火，羊属土，猴属金，鸡属金，狗属土，猪属水) have their own assigned meanings and have nothing to do with the yearly-cycle; So in my opinion the Table may need to be expanded a little! Source : http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4e06729d01000awi.html http://sports.sohu.com/20080326/n255917712.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piranha-8 (talk • contribs) 08:17, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Chinese-Western Sign associations wrong

I'm not sure who came up with the idea that the Snake is associated with Taurus, but their wrong. Yes the Snake is often associated with materialism, you know wanting a life of luxury, and being stubborn. But Snakes are charmers, they are often skilled in the arts of seduction and interested in the unknown, mysticism, the occult etc. Scorpio is bout the same way and is also a fixed sign which means it is also stubborn. Scorpios don't let anyone get in the way of what they believe in, like the Snake.

I could explain the others, but how it really should be is below. I often try to figure out associations of signs with different things. Including gaming. Like what signs are associated with what class or race of say world of warcraft. I have put an asterick by the signs I'm still unsure on.

Aries/Ox

Taurus/Rooster*

Gemini/Monkey

Cancer/Pig

Leo/Dragon

Virgo/Rabbit

Libra/Tiger*

Scorpio/Snake

Sagittarius/Horse

Capricorn/Dog*

Aquarius/Rat

Pisces/Goat*

Okay, don't force your opinion and original research down on us. The equivalents we have right now are FINE.

Type "western astrology and chinese astrology equivalent" in Google [2] and here you will find: [3][4][5] Read this one: [6] Need I list more? Someone963852 (talk) 21:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposed changes to table

I reverted 3 good faith edits from 16:24-26, 4 January 2011 by LC.Lau. My primary was that all the dates were changed to Feb 3rd or 4th, citing a blog at fengshui1988.com which seemed to say the zodiac should begin on the spring equinox (it gave the date Feb 4th or 5th for that). I assumed that it meant Spring Festival/New Year (2nd new moon after winter solstice) since the equinox is approximately March 20/21. The editor offered some clarification on my talk page, but it's such a major change, and a lot of sources seem to agree on the other way... so, I suggested it would be best to discuss it here.

Here's what LC.Lau explained:

Please note that years in the Sexagenary cycle are different from years in the traditional Chinese calendar. The ancient Chinese Astrologist usually takes the start of a year from Li Chun (Feb 4 every year), the system, it's also called "Shichen Bazi" (時辰八字), which has absolute no relationship with the Chinese calendar. In the Chinese calendar, a standard year only contains 354 days, which makes it inappropriate for astrology observation.

—Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 07:47, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The table below does NOT reflect the data in the source you cited. That source, which I have no reason to doubt, does in fact put the date of the new year as either the 4th or 5th of February. It also provides tables of its own showing, for each year, exactly which of those days, and even at what time of day, the new year commences. The current table is NOT is agreement with the source. The same incorrect table, even citing the same source, is present on Chinese zodiac and Sexagenary cycle, whereas this Chinese astrology page and the Chinese New Year page current have a much different table where the date of the new year varies by many days or weeks each year.Qaanol (talk) 00:35, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Qaanol, please direct your response to the discussion with LC.Lau below. Thanks.—Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 02:25, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

{{Refimprove|date=April 2009}} <!--      HIDDEN EDITOR NOTE:      DO NOT ADD ANY INFORMATION WITHOUT CITING A RELIABLE SOURCE      UNSOURCED ADDITIONS WILL BE REMOVED -->	→
This is only applied to Chinese Lunar calendar. The actual year commence is based on Chinese Solar calendar, always on 04 Feb of every year.	→	The actual year commence is based on Chinese Solar calendar, always [[Lichun|February 4]] of every year. <ref>A solar year is the period between one Spring Equinox (pinyin: Li Chun) and the next Spring Equinox (pinyin: Li Chun) bases on the Xia calendar. http://fengshui1988.com/chinese-calendar-and-the-chinese-horoscope/</ref>
Year Associated Element Heavenly Stem Earthly Branch Associated Animal Year 1924–1983 1984–2043 1 Feb 04, 1924–Feb 03, 1925 Yang Wood 甲 子 Rat Feb 04, 1984–Feb 03, 1985 2 Feb 04, 1925–Feb 03, 1926 Yin Wood 乙 丑 Ox Feb 04, 1985–Feb 03, 1986 3 Feb 04, 1926–Feb 03, 1927 Yang Fire 丙 寅 Tiger Feb 04, 1986–Feb 03, 1987 4 Feb 04, 1927–Feb 03, 1928 Yin Fire 丁 卯 Rabbit Feb 04, 1987–Feb 03, 1988 5 Feb 04, 1928–Feb 03, 1929 Yang Earth 戊 辰 Dragon Feb 04, 1988–Feb 03, 1989 6 Feb 04, 1929–Feb 03, 1930 Yin Earth 己 巳 Snake Feb 04, 1989–Feb 03, 1990 7 Feb 04, 1930–Feb 03, 1931 Yang Metal 庚 午 Horse Feb 04, 1990–Feb 03, 1991 8 Feb 04, 1931–Feb 03, 1932 Yin Metal 辛 未 Goat Feb 04, 1991–Feb 03, 1992 9 Feb 04, 1932–Feb 03, 1933 Yang Water 壬 申 Monkey Feb 04, 1992–Feb 03, 1993 10 Feb 04, 1933–Feb 03, 1934 Yin Water 癸 酉 Rooster Feb 04, 1993– Feb 04, 1994 11 Feb 04, 1934–Feb 03, 1935 Yang Wood 甲 戌 Dog Feb 04, 1994–Feb 03, 1995 12 Feb 04, 1935–Feb 03, 1936 Yin Wood 乙 亥 Pig Feb 04, 1995–Feb 03, 1996 13 Feb 04, 1936–Feb 03, 1937 Yang Fire 丙 子 Rat Feb 04, 1996–Feb 03, 1997 14 Feb 04, 1937–Feb 03, 1938 Yin Fire 丁 丑 Ox Feb 04, 1997–Feb 03, 1998 15 Feb 04, 1938–Feb 03, 1939 Yang Earth 戊 寅 Tiger Feb 04, 1998–Feb 03, 1999 16 Feb 04, 1939–Feb 03, 1940 Yin Earth 己 卯 Rabbit Feb 04, 1999–Feb 03, 2000 17 Feb 04, 1940–Feb 03, 1941 Yang Metal 庚 辰 Dragon Feb 04, 2000–Feb 03, 2001 18 Feb 04, 1941–Feb 03, 1942 Yin Metal 辛 巳 Snake Feb 04, 2001–Feb 03, 2002 19 Feb 04, 1942–Feb 03, 1943 Yang Water 壬 午 Horse Feb 04, 2002–Feb 03, 2003 20 Feb 04, 1943–Feb 03, 1944 Yin Water 癸 未 Goat Feb 04, 2003–Feb 03, 2004 21 Feb 04, 1944–Feb 03, 1945 Yang Wood 甲 申 Monkey Feb 04, 2004–Feb 03, 2005 22 Feb 04, 1945–Feb 03, 1946 Yin Wood 乙 酉 Rooster Feb 04, 2005–Feb 03, 2006 23 Feb 04, 1946–Feb 03, 1947 Yang Fire 丙 戌 Dog Feb 04, 2006–Feb 03, 2007 24 Feb 04, 1947–Feb 03, 1948 Yin Fire 丁 亥 Pig Feb 04, 2007–Feb 03, 2008 25 Feb 04, 1948–Feb 03, 1949 Yang Earth 戊 子 Rat Feb 04, 2008–Feb 03, 2009 26 Feb 04, 1949–Feb 03, 1950 Yin Earth 己 丑 Ox Feb 04, 2009–Feb 03, 2010 27 Feb 04, 1950–Feb 03, 1951 Yang Metal 庚 寅 Tiger Feb 04, 2010–Feb 03, 2011 28 Feb 04, 1951–Feb 03, 1952 Yin Metal 辛 卯 Rabbit Feb 04, 2011–Feb 03, 2012 29 Feb 04, 1952–Feb 03, 1953 Yang Water 壬 辰 Dragon Feb 04, 2012–Feb 03, 2013 30 Feb 04, 1953–Feb 03, 1954 Yin Water 癸 巳 Snake Feb 04, 2013–Feb 03, 2014 31 Feb 04, 1954–Feb 03, 1955 Yang Wood 甲 午 Horse Feb 04, 2014–Feb 03, 2015 32 Feb 04, 1955–Feb 03, 1956 Yin Wood 乙 未 Goat Feb 04, 2015–Feb 03, 2016 33 Feb 04, 1956–Feb 03, 1957 Yang Fire 丙 申 Monkey Feb 04, 2016–Feb 03, 2017 34 Feb 04, 1957–Feb 03, 1958 Yin Fire 丁 酉 Rooster Feb 04, 2017–Feb 03, 2018 35 Feb 04, 1958–Feb 03, 1959 Yang Earth 戊 戌 Dog Feb 04, 2018–Feb 03, 2019 36 Feb 04, 1959–Feb 03, 1960 Yin Earth 己 亥 Pig Feb 04, 2019–Feb 03, 2020 37 Feb 04, 1960–Feb 03, 1961 Yang Metal 庚 子 Rat Feb 04, 2020–Feb 03, 2021 38 Feb 04, 1961–Feb 03, 1962 Yin Metal 辛 丑 Ox Feb 04, 2021–Feb 03, 2022 39 Feb 04, 1962–Feb 03, 1963 Yang Water 壬 寅 Tiger Feb 04, 2022–Feb 03, 2023 40 Feb 04, 1963–Feb 03, 1964 Yin Water 癸 卯 Rabbit Feb 04, 2023–Feb 03, 2024 41 Feb 04, 1964–Feb 03, 1965 Yang Wood 甲 辰 Dragon Feb 04, 2024–Feb 03, 2025 42 Feb 04, 1965–Feb 03, 1966 Yin Wood 乙 巳 Snake Feb 04, 2025–Feb 03, 2026 43 Feb 04, 1966–Feb 03, 1967 Yang Fire 丙 午 Horse Feb 04, 2026–Feb 03, 2027 44 Feb 04, 1967–Feb 03, 1968 Yin Fire 丁 未 Goat Feb 04, 2027–Feb 03, 2028 45 Feb 04, 1968–Feb 03, 1969 Yang Earth 戊 申 Monkey Feb 04, 2028–Feb 03, 2029 46 Feb 04, 1969–Feb 03, 1970 Yin Earth 己 酉 Rooster Feb 04, 2029–Feb 03, 2030 47 Feb 04, 1970–Feb 03, 1971 Yang Metal 庚 戌 Dog Feb 04, 2030–Feb 03, 2031 48 Feb 04, 1971–Feb 03, 1972 Yin Metal 辛 亥 Pig Feb 04, 2031–Feb 03, 2032 49 Feb 04, 1972–Feb 03, 1973 Yang Water 壬 子 Rat Feb 04, 2032–Feb 03, 2033 50 Feb 04, 1973–Feb 03, 1974 Yin Water 癸 丑 Ox Feb 04, 2033–Feb 03, 2034 51 Feb 04, 1974–Feb 03, 1975 Yang Wood 甲 寅 Tiger Feb 04, 2034–Feb 03, 2044

—Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 07:47, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

[天干与地支, A webpage provided by Huazhong Agricultural University (华中农业大学气象教研室)], mentioned: 我国古代用这六十对干支来表示年、月、日、时的序号，周而复始，不断循环，这就是干支纪法。在任一时刻，年、月、日、时的干支合起来有八个字，这就是俗称的“八字”。纪年的干支并不是以元旦或者春节作为两年的分界，而是以立春为界，立春前为前一年，立春日开始才是新的一年。

English Translation: Ancient China uses the combination of Stems-and-Branches to record the order number of a year, a month, a day, and hours. Once it ends and it returns back start over again, and this is the Sexagenary cycle. No matter what time it is, the combination of the year, month, day, hours always contains eight Chinese word, that is the so-called Shichen Bazi (时辰八字). Years in Sexagenary cycle did not start from January 1, or the first day of the Traditional Chinese calendar. It uses Lichun as the border of the years, before Lichun, it's previous year, after the Lichun, new year begins.

["皇曆""陰曆"錯位 屬相立春為界？, A webpage from China.com.cn, a news website from China], mentioned: 陰曆是單一以月亮朔望為依據的，最古老最直觀的曆法，主要用來應付日常的時間安排；干支紀時系統則是嚴格等分的精確時間分割，主要服務於國家時間，諸如祭祀、天象、災異等，後來也為算命先生等各路術師推算吉兇所借用。在干支紀時系統中，歲首不在正月初一，而在立春之日。干支年曆是以節氣為基礎的歷書，一般只能由中央政府頒布，故稱“皇曆”。我們翻開任何一本皇曆，都能看到，干支年份的變更，不在正月初一，而在立春建寅之日，大約相當於公曆的2月3日至5日之間。

English Translation: Traditional Chinese calendar is based on the lunar month, it's simple, old enough, and intuitive for farmers and peasants. For daily business, it works just fine. But the system in the Sexagenary cycle is much much more serious, it divided precisely, and serves the state power, such as religion ritual, astronomy observation or historical records, Chinese fortune tellers also adopted this system. In the Sexagenary cycle calendar system, first day of the year should be Lichun, not same as the Traditional Chinese calendar. Sexagenary calendar based on Solar term (aka Jieqi), only the central government has the authority to change that, that's why it also be called "Huang-li" (皇曆, the Calendar of the Emperor). Browse through every single Huang-li, you'll noticed years in Sexagenary cycle only change at Lichun, approximately between February 3 to February 5.

--LC.Lau (talk) 17:02, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

In one of the sources, (""Almanac" "lunar" zodiac beginning of spring as the boundary dislocation? — China Network". 16 February 2009. Retrieved 05 January 2011. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)) it sounds like there was some controversy in 2006, (using Google Translate):

2006年年初，新華社轉發《羊城晚報》一則新聞稱：“今年2月4日是農曆初七，立春，狗年應該從這一天開始算起——著名民俗學家葉春生教授提醒公眾，生肖是從立春而不是從正月初一開始算起的。”

In early 2006, the Xinhua News Agency forward, "the Yangcheng Evening News," a news report said: "This year is the Lunar New Year on February 4 seventh day, the beginning of spring, year of the Dog should begin to run from that day - the famous folklorist Professor Ye Chunsheng reminded the public that animals are From the beginning of spring and not begin to run from the first day of. "

各大媒體迅速抓住這一話題，各地民俗學家紛紛被邀發言。大部分學者都反對葉春生的說法，上海民俗文化學會會長仲富蘭教授甚至激動地說：“這是一種混淆視聽的錯誤說法，它把'生肖'與'節氣'兩個不同的系統給混同起來了。”還有學者直斥葉春生“違背科學、違背民俗、違背歷史”。但是，《新民晚報》開通的新聞熱線卻顯示，過半讀者都支援葉春生的“生肖從立春算起”。

The major media were quick to seize this issue, local folklorists have been invited to speak. Most scholars have to say against Ye Chunsheng, president of Shanghai Institute of Folk Culture, Professor Zhong Fulan even excitedly said: "This is a confusing error argument, it is the 'zodiac' and 'moral courage' to confuse the two different systems together a. "Another scholar lashed Ye Chunsheng," contrary to science, contrary to folklore, contrary to history. " However, the "Xinmin Evening News" open news hotline have shown that more than half of readers support Ye Chunsheng's "Zodiac counting from the beginning of spring."

As another user mentioned above, you've also made changes to the Chinese zodiac and Sexagenary cycle articles, but I'm as yet unconvinced these changes are well supported by reliable sources.—Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 02:47, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

What Professor Zhong Fulan said is: "Ye Chunsheng is trying to confuse people, Chinese zodiac and the Solar term are two different things in two different systems". But clearly he is wrong, obviously the fact is that there IS a connection between the Chinese zodiac and the Solar term. Chinese zodiac is a zodiac system based on the twelve Earthly Branches, and Solar term (Jieqi) is a very important part on the Sexagenary cycle. In the Sexagenary cycle, each year, month, day and hours have its own name based on the Stems-and-Branches system. --LC.Lau (talk) 09:58, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

RfC: Chinese zodiac Controversy

Should the start of the Chinese zodiac year be changed to always occur on Feb. 4 in the Chinese astrology, Chinese zodiac and Sexagenary cycle articles? Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 03:22, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Helmer Aslaksen of the University of Singapore, an expert on the Chinese calendar, states on page 22 of "The mathematics of the Chinese calendar" "Some astrological sources also use a third year [besides the lunisolar nian year and the winter solstice sui year] running from one beginning of spring (lichun) to the next, and claim that your Chinese zodiac animal (shengxiao shuxiang) should be based on this. In 1960, Chinese New Year fell on January 28 while the beginning of spring fell on February 5. If you were born on February 1, you would not be considered a Rat, but a Pig!" This implies that other astrological sources do not use a lichun year, and that a zodiac animal applicable only during a lichun year is unusual (note the exclamation point). In general see pages 21–22 and 35–36.

Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy requires that both opinions (a lunisolar year and a lichun year, and possibly a winter solstice year) be in the articles. This can take any of several forms, (1) a note stating that the Sexagenary cycle beginning at lichun "about February 4" is used by some astrological sources, (2) a separate column next to the lunisolar year listing the date that each lichun year begins (February 3, 4, or 5), or (3) a separate column listing the date and time that each lichun year begins (and ends?). My calculations result in times close to those given in the "your zodiac" links of Feng Shui since 1988 by Nicholas Teo, which only cover 1940–2020. Dates (and times) for other years are easily derived. — Joe Kress (talk) 21:07, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I suggest remove the starting and ending point of a year from the form, instead adding a note on the the article. --LC.Lau (talk) 02:27, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

The consensus, (3 to 1), is not to remove the starting and ending dates. I agree a note should be added (per Joe Kress WP:NPOV): "The Sexagenary cycle [begins] at lichun 'about February 4' [according to] some astrological sources". I've modified the text about "actual year" and added the note to Chinese astrology. I've also undone the change and added the note to both Chinese zodiac and Sexagenary cycle. I've cited the China Network article for the note in each:

• ""Almanac" "lunar" zodiac beginning of spring as the boundary dislocation? — China Network". 16 February 2009. Retrieved 05 January 2011. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)

—Machine Elf 1735 (talk) 22:47, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

All comments above are rather old and unorganized. I was looking at the dates for the "year" in each column and I'm not sure what "calendar" it's supposed to be based on. If it's the lunar calendar, it's wrong and needs to be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.102.229.80 (talk) 23:44, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

"snail" in Kazakhstan

This note is incorrect and should be deleted. The Kazakh word ұлу in the Zodiac calendar derives from a loan word from Chinese meaning "Dragon" (lun).

65.210.81.130 (talk) 16:28, 2 June 2011 (UTC) Will

File:E8618-Almaty-Zodiac-Fountain.jpg

Some of the 12 figures of the Zodiac Fountain, Almaty

That may be so, but the current meaning is definitely "snail", and it is so translated and depicted. -- Vmenkov (talk) 17:23, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

this thing is amazing i have seen this it is realy cool — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.107.131.223 (talk) 02:56, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

REMOVE LINK

The link to chineseastrology.org comes up with a ROOTKIT INFECTION MESSAGE. Get rid of this link. 108.18.136.147 (talk) 20:42, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Unreadable English

Could someone who is familiar with the subject matter please edit the currently incomprehensible contributions by HeSeaBlueDogJueyin (talk · contribs), primarily sections Zang Fu ~ Zodiac ~ Month and Arctic ~ Antarctic, but also the paragraph on Arctic/Antarctic water in the end of the Wu Xing section? (Even the use of the tilde character in the headlines is not something you normally see in English.) ehn (talk) 07:17, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Zodiac - Zang Fu

Legend: (Ba Gua) - Hour - Sign - Zang Fu

• 12h (Highest) - Tiger Felidae - Lung Fei

- (Qian) - Summer Solstice

• 14h - Rabbit - Trachea (Breath with Lungs, Wu wei Force, No-Doing only Breath Meditate)
• (Zhen) - 16h - Dragon - Stomach Wei
• 18h - Snake - Spleen Pi

- (Kan) - Fall Equinox

• 20h - Horse Equidae - Heart (Venous) Xin
• (Gen) - 22h - Sheep - Small Intestine Xiao Chang
• 0h (Lowest) - Monkey Primates - Urinary Bladder Pang Guang

- (Kun) - Winter Solstice

• 2h - Phoenix (Rooster) - Kidney Shen
• (Xun) - 4h - Dog Canidae - Heart Master (Arterial Vein(eral Venus)) Xin Bao
• 6h - Cat (Pig) - Colon (after Small Intestine comes Large)

- (Li Open Zodiac) - Spring Equinox (Jade Emperor Zodiac Legend Cat-Rat Shao Yang Link) Zodiac Year Binomial Change

• 8h - Rat - Gall Bladder Dan
• (Dui) - 10h - Buffalo Bovinae or Elephant - Liver Gan

--200.144.23.63 (talk) 14:34, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Principle Table with Logichs Coherence

Zodiac	Lion	Rabbit	Dragon	Snake	Horse	Sheep	Turtle (13º)	Monkey	Phoenix	Dog	Cat	Mouse	Mammoth
Hour Month 360º	150 - 180 (Summer Solstice)	180 - 210	210 - 240	240 - 270 (Fall Equinox)	270 - 300	300 - 330	30	330 - 360 (Winter Solstice)	0 - 30	30 - 60	60 - 90 (Spring Equinox Sign Year Change)	90 - 120	120 - 150
Zang Fu	Lungs	Trachea	Stomach	Spleen	Heart	Small Intestine	Urinary Bladder	Kidneys	Heart Master	Colon	Gall Bladder	Liver
Olympian Gods Related	Hera	Zeus	Poseidon	Ceres	Diana	Apollo	Hephaestus	Ares	Athena	Aphrodite	Hermes	Dionysus	Hestia
Mantis	Tai Yin Hand	Yang Ming Hand	Yang Ming Foot	Tai Yin Foot	Shao Yin Hand	Tai Yang Hand	69	Tai Yang Foot	Shao Yin Foot	Jue Yin Hand	Shao Yang Hand	Shao Yang Foot (Legend Open Zodiac)	Jue Yin Foot