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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Oogles (talk | contribs) at 06:03, 18 September 2017 (→I made some BOLD edits to History). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Sandwich?

Why is this called a sandwich? A hot dog bun is not two slices of bread, as defined here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich — Preceding unsigned comment added by JuicePats (talk • contribs) 04:13, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Because it can be argued both ways. For example, submarine sandwiches, like hot dogs, are often served on one piece of partially-sliced bread. Webster's Dictionary says a submarine sandwich is served on bread "usually incompletely cut into two halves": http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/submarine%20sandwich Lovelovecats (talk) 01:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not a sandwich according to http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/11/07/a-hot-dog-is-not-a-sandwich/75362898/ ... chew on that. 184.155.10.215 (talk) 20:19, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That is a nice opinion piece. -- GB fan 21:01, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What's wrong with it being "colloquially referred to as a sandwich" or something along those lines? It's going to be slightly misinformative either way without that information. And besides, that would apply to the whole thing, really, given that a "hot dog" per se is only the cheap sausage that's been put onto/into the bread; plenty of people in my part of the US eat theirs on crackers when they're not at home. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.50.36.236 (talk) 08:36, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored this, because the historical literature as cited in the entry are clear on the hot dog plus bun being a sandwich. Most latter day interpretations rely on opinion pieces, as seen in the arguments presented above on this talk page. Mayor of awesometown (talk) 20:10, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that the were historically referred to as sandwiches by some is already mentioned in part later in the article. Today it seems there that most do not consider a hot dog to be a sandwich, and most that do only seem to have started expressing such a belief after this question became something of a meme, leading me to believe that without the binary question itself to encourage one to contemplate the matter, most would not independently refer to a hot dog as a sandwich. As such, I think a neutral option is best. No citing opinion pieces stating that hot god are not sandwiches, and no referring to hot dogs as sandwiches outside of the historical context. This is a simple edit to make. I believe the sentence in the introduction is perfect with the words "as a sandwich" removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thefoxyfox (talk • contribs) 17:22, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A hot dog is not a sandwich. A sandwich requires two slices of bread, as defined by the Oxford English Dictionary. As the Atlantic notes https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/11/its-not-a-sandwich/414352/ other non sandwiches include wraps, tacos, burritos, the KFC Double Down and "the drastically misnamed open-faced “sandwich”". They could have added a croissant is not a sandwich, but a bagel could be defined as a sandwich, if "bagel sandwich" didn't sound silly. A hotdog is a hotdog. Thinginblack (talk) 11:33, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Again, nice opinion piece. When you read the whole piece it says that the argument can be made for either opinion. There is nothing wrong with calling it a sandwich. ~ GB fan 14:35, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, GB fan, it's opinion on both sides, and both views are valid. So, I don't see why it shouldn't say that there are differing views on whether to call it a sandwich (instead of just saying it is a sandwich). --Musdan77 (talk) 05:26, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I never said it couldn't say there are differing opinions. This has been in response to people saying that it isn't a sandwich. No one (until now) has proposed to add that there are differing opinions. How would you incorporate it into the article? ~ GB fan 10:10, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If someone would like to incorporate such information then I don't have a problem with that. But I see no reason to have the words "as a sandwich" in the introduction as they currently are. Clearly many people do not consider a hot dog to be a sandwich, and only very broad definitions of sandwich (such as 'open faced sandwich') apply well to hot dogs. The fact that historically some people referred to hot dogs as sandwiches before the designation "hot dog" existed is already mentioned in the etymology section. I think the most neutral solution here for the time being is to omit "as a sandwich". That way we do not take any specific stance on whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich. --Thefoxyfox (talk) 09:29, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Smokie

I'm Canadian, and hot dogs (usually sausages in this case, not thin wieners) are also often referred to as 'smokies', could this be added as an alternative name? Hipchic99 (talk) 18:53, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Common Ingredients

Common Ingredients source is 404, and the list added by Shelia1998 is un-sourced. 2602:306:30BC:BC00:E538:512D:5246:A796 (talk) 19:25, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Changed lead so "hot dog" is first

The first sentence was changed so that hot dog is the first term, followed by "also known as" frankfurter and wiener. Previously, the article read "frankfurter... better known as hot dog". This seemed awkward given that the article title is "hot dog" and not "frankfurter." Indeed, Frankfurter is a disambiguation page, and it names several other sausages known as frankfurters. Roches (talk) 13:15, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I made some BOLD edits to History

More is probably needed, but it's annoying when the Etymology already exposes that which is "history" as a myth. I could probably take more, but I'll stop where I stopped. Oogles (talk) 23:45, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

also of note, I also edited this article years and years ago, and Etymology, history, etc - Some of my earliest sources have been deleted in favorable of MORE early sources - that's great - and fine. - Actually that's awesome, what it should be. But the MYTH is in the HISTORY section, after I fought for a REASON for the Myth to be included? *sigh* Anyway, that aside, relationship between baseball and a hot dog (or earlier sources, it wouldn't be a "hot dog" then) is different, maybe a seperate section, just for American Baseball? As the myth already surrounds American Baseball, and the bloggers aren't helping with the perpetuation of it. Oogles (talk) 23:50, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Photographic evidence of a "Hot dog" in a baseball stadium prior to all these dates would suffice. Oh wait, it doesn't exist? oh right. Oogles (talk) 23:53, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
PRINT would work too, just not a blog from some lady in 2006. Oogles (talk) 23:54, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's common sense, why would people want to eat, what they weren't already eating - or had seen before - at a stadium, in their city, when the goal of the owner is to get people to buy tickets and food. Oogles (talk) 00:09, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You did, however, delete the information about the apparent Coney Island origin of the sausage in a bun by Charles Feltman. This is referred to in the Coney Island history: http://www.coneyislandhistory.org/hall-of-fame/charles-feltman , and dated at 1867 by Jeffrey Stanton, who is writing a book about Coney Island: https://www.westland.net/coneyisland/articles/food.htm , and appeared in a 1957 book: Good Old Coney Island, by Edo McCullough, Fordham Univ Press, p.236 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WGGbhGx003oC&pg=PA236 . This is nothing to do with the 'baseball myth'. I propose to put this back in. Peace Makes Plenty (talk) 17:05, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
OK, you can, or I'll edit it back in Oogles (talk) 18:39, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note the source is a book, so have to look at the books source. For now, fine if you want. Oogles (talk) 18:40, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(Print- Newspaper) While not 100% reliable even then, can certainly establish dates "Hot dog" are used- - - or "dog (as common name for a sausage) - - those lawsuits still around, where it actually was dog. Ewe. Whatever it is, should have a source that is not a blog drawing on misinformation - unless the blog then references an earlier source. Same with book. But since TAD didn't actually make any cartoon about baseball (at the alleged time) -- lets not credit him with it. Though he did make a TON of other phrases- that are still used today, in no relation to the hot dog. The cats pajamas. Dumbell. For Crying out loud. Oogles (talk) 18:59, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The person who put in the Thomas Edison short film is brilliant, and shows that "dog" as a term for "sausage" was well in effect. Oogles (talk) 19:05, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Peace Makes Plenty (talk) 13:21, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The myth should remain, since it'll crop up all the time Oogles (talk) 18:07, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
1957 - for a book might be a problem, when a cartoon way before that - 50 years earlier - that never existed - doesn't fit, but would have to look at book's sources (which I haven't done) Oogles (talk) 20:14, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Why are the last few edits that snuck in allowed as "history"? Oogles (talk) 03:30, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(and are other myths, describable so in the edits) Oogles (talk) 03:31, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well,Peace Makes Plenty, your edits have to go, Those are BS. It was a peace offering, but no, just for the myth of American baseball, ahhhhhhh... lol..... Oogles (talk) 05:29, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Either, it's word use of the word "dog" , and then a warm dog - or a "HOTDOG". I get that confusion, I truly do. Likely due to lawsuits and mr. edisons films. -- but things that came AFTER that, isn't exactly that, is it? Oogles (talk) 05:32, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Find the earliest usage in print (an actual newspaper article) when not referring to a dog, (Hey, all these pictures, put a sign "Hot Dog") you can see it's close in years. Note that my early ones were bleeped out in favor of others - all fine. Oogles (talk) 05:34, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not for the ref sake, just earlier ones were available. Oogles (talk) 05:36, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Myth sake, I agree, have a separate section for MYTH, (but are they really called "hot dogs" now in Germany?) but the fact that MANY of the myths (especially in USA and surrounding American baseball) is based on a cartoonist, where alleged baseball cartoon had a hotdog, yeah, no.... Missing it by a A LOT of years.. So maybe edit frankfurter there..... and find out THAT history. ::::: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oogles (talk • contribs) 05:43, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not only that, where did all THE PRINT NEWSPAPER articles go? Guess their not relevant anymore, to what some lady says in 2006. Oogles (talk) 05:53, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Like they couldn't afford Cameras, send a person instead to observe. And shows up in odd ways "they munched on hotdogs during the service". The focus ISN'T on the hotdog. Oogles (talk) 05:56, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There's a span of years though, where you can't claim "hot dog" (obviously, prior to this, you could be sued prior to having actual dog in your sausage) Oogles (talk) 06:03, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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