Talk:Espresso

The term espresso

The term espresso is derived from the italian expression caffè espresso. Espresso means literally "expressed" in the meaning of "not implicit". It dates back to ancient custom in which one would have to order "expressively / formally" at the bar of the restaurant. Very often it is wrongly assumed, also in the main article of wikipedia, that the term espresso is derived from "express" in the meaning of "fast" or "pressed out" from the latin word "exprimere = to express" (PPP (Passive perfect participle) = expressum).

--86.142.171.119 22:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)Sorry for my bad english..[reply]

Every single source I can check for etymologies gives the correct etymology as being derived from the past participle of esprimere. These are all English dictionaries, and they are all possibly wrong. I would need to see some evidence that this is wrong. In the meantime, I think it is safest to go with The Oxford American Dictionary and Merriam-Websters.

71.56.237.70 23:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History

I'd dearly love to see material on the history of espresso, particularly of the early development of the technology used to make it and the people or companies involved. Clearly it isn't nearly as old as boiled or filtered coffee, and the steam pressure-makers must have come about as a refinement of the older stovetop percolators. But when, where, and who was involved? Charmii 14:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I can tackle adding a more complete history subsection of for espresso. I've been working on one for the CG site for the espresso guide, and can precis (shorten) it here for wiki. Question is, how long do you think I should make it. The CG article one is about 2500 words, and barely scratches the surface in some instances. CoffeeGeek 23:10, 21 March 2006 (PST)

Brewing method

"To pull a single shot of espresso, a metal filter known as a portafilter basket is filled with between 6.5 grams and 10 grams (for a single shot) of properly ground roasted coffee beans. The espresso is then tamped..."

There's a descriptive break, where suddenly the beans are considered espresso. As far as i can figure the finished product is the espresso, not the beans in the basket.

The beans are still considered coffee, however most roasters will use such descriptors as "espresso roasted coffee", "espresso roast" or even shorten this to just plain "espresso". After being milled between the finely tuned burrs of an espresso grinder, the coffee is now considered an espresso grind. However, at this point it is common convention to refer to this finely gound coffee as espresso. Perhaps because the coffee is almost irrevocably ruined for anything else but espresso (it's far too fine to brew in a standard drip coffeemaker yet not quite fine enough for turkish coffee). And of couse, espresso is also the liquid in the demitasse.

This is about as confusing as the debate over the origin of the word "espresso". However, one can probably just chalk it up to tradition. All in all it's probably a distinction not worth making as it can cause as much confusion as it tries to clear up.

Americano

The description at the beginning is incorrect. Caffe Americano is not the same thing as American coffee. An Americano is espresso in hot water, made in such a way to satisfy (as I understand it) Americans in Italy during World War II who weren't used to espresso. --Aaronh 00:46, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Photo

Why cannot a picture be linked to an espresso machine? For those looking on info about them it could be useful to find a picture that maybe tells more than just verbally explaining the principle of how it works. Zisa

Why not and a text explaining the principe but I have no photo of an expresso machine. Who has one ? Ericd

My understanding is that there is no such beverage as "expresso".

I've added a photo, but it needs improvement. The machine shown is a personal espresso machine, good for a cup or two, but not the sort of thing you would encounter in a cafe. It should be replaced with something more representative of a real machine when such a photo becomes available. pjf 09:45, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'll see if I can get a picture; I work in a coffee shop Eion 00:37, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hi, I embellished this article. It's my first so I hope you all enjoy it. I'm a little bit of an enthusiast in the area so I thought that maybe the topic of espresso machines warranted it's own page separate from that of the drink. There's lots of new pages linked in this page and I hope to get to them soon too. Simpolman 20:49 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)

Meaning

So, er, does it mean "extremely quick", or does it mean "pressed out"? -- Oliver P. 21:19 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)

Well, before it said extremely quick, but in the sources I've seen it meant pressed out. Quick might be a connotation. Perhaps I should add that. However I belive that might just be an american connotation. If any Italians know for sure, that'd be great. Remember those "Expresso" Dodge Neons? Simpolman 21:35 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)

A friend of mine brought it to my attention that espresso was invented long after latin was no longer spoken. He's from italy and he claims that Espresso means the same as Express does here. It can either mean fast, or as in "artistic expression". I'll address this when I finish editing this page. Simpolman 22:28 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)

I'm from Italy, and I can confirm that espresso means very quick (the other meaning is also common but doesn't apply to this context imho). There are a few mistakes in the page, at least from an italian point of view: - the photo: in Italy you _always_ drink espresso in small cups, not glasses - a barista is a bartender, wether brewes coffee or not - shots are a foreign concept. We use the terms 'ristretto' (means shrinked, about a quarter of a shot) and 'doppio' (means double, about a shot), while 'normale' (means plain, about half a shot) is the default, and usually you only use it if the barista asks you how you want it. A side note: when Italians drinks espresso out of their countries are usually frustrated because the bartender will give them a drink much bigger than they are used to, and it gets much weaker and tasteless than what we're used to, despite the fact that often (at least in the US) they're often using the finest brand of coffee and the finest equipment you can find in Italy. I guess the main reason for that is to meet the taste of local people, used to drink mugs of lighter coffee.

Marcello Jun 18, 2003

Hmmm... Apparently this got discussed but never changed. I can confirm Marcello's statement, having grown up in Italy, and I'm correcting the article to reflect the correct meaning ("very quickly"). — Asbestos | Talk 13:10, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Espresso" means literally "pressed out from", because hot water is pressed out through the ground coffee. E.g. French coffee is instead prepared by filtering, and is much weaker. The "very quickly" meaning you people allege comes probably from the "espresso" trains (guess what, it means express train), which are indeed pushed through stations (in the sense they do not stop).Orzetto 10:32, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Um, I'm afraid it doesn't. L'Espresso isn't a "pressed-out" newspaper. Similarly, the Corriere Espresso isn't the pressed-out courier service. Also, check an online translation of the "express": [1] and note that the adjectival form (i.e. "quick") in Italian is, indeed, "espresso".

I think that the confusion lies in the fact that the English verb "express", meaning to state, comes from the Latin "expressare" ("exprimere"), which is, indeed, to press out (and, in Italian, is "esprimere"). The word espresso as it is used in Italian today is completely distinct from "esprimere," however (though it probably has the same root) — Asbestos | Talk 11:10, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

To make sure that I'm not getting the wrong idea across (as I'm not making much sense), it doesn't matter if the Latin root of the verb was "to press out". "Espresso" is a very common adjective in Italian meaning "quickly" (as in my references above). It does not, in Italian, mean "pressed out" (I was getting side-tracked by references to Latin). The name of the coffee comes from Italian, not Latin, so it's Latin origin is immaterial. Being from Italy, I can confirm Marcello's statement that "espresso" has nothing to do with "pressed out" in modern Italian. — Asbestos | Talk 14:02, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

(moved from User Talk:Asbestos)

Hi Asbestos,

I am Italian and I can guarantee you that espresso comes from Latin ex premĕre (doh, I think); the Italian verb esprimere's past participle is indeed irregular and is "espresso". It is normally used in sentences as Gli ho espresso le mie preoccupazioni ("I expressed him my concers"), which is consistent with the idea of "getting something out". The irregularity is awkward since there are other similar verbs, as "premere" and "spremere" that have plain and regular past participles.

There is no immediate connection between espresso and speed, except express trains. However, these trains are no longer used in Italy anyway, since they changed the name to InterCity in order to be more expensive. :-(

Express trains, in turn, got their name originally because they were "pushed" through less important stations, stopping only at larger hubs. Orzetto 14:54, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"There is no immediate connection between espresso and speed".

I don't think that is correct. See for instance the online dictionary at sapere.it (you can use username Asbestos and password A87Y47O8). Definition #2: Veloce, Rapido. Examples: "treno espresso", "corrispondenza che viene recapitata in modo più rapido del normale". While I agreed with you above that this comes from the Latin ex premĕre (had you read the post you would have seen I had said it), but, as Simpolman notes above, espresso coffee was invented after the Romans. The word in Italian means "quickly" (and is also a past participle of esprimersi), but never, in modern Italian, means "pressed out." Do check out my post above. — Asbestos | Talk 15:37, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have to insist, "espresso" has no direct connection to speed except the railway analogy. Otherwise, Nescafe would qualify as an espresso, and that is as close to blasphemy as I want to get. Surely coffee was invended after the Romans, otherwise espresso would have had another name (Greek maybe). It was common practice to make new words after latin or greek (and still is to some extent); for instance, the remote control became a "telecomando" (from Greek tele-), and the fridge became "frigorifero", from latin frigor, -is and fero, fers, tuli, latum, ferre, i.e. "bearer of cold" (its culturally deep origins notwithstanding, frigorifero is today the plain word for fridge). As an Italian I can guarantee you that espresso refers to the steam-pressure preparation, and not to the speed. It is true that the word espresso is not currently used in that sense anymore, and is normally used either for "expressed", the coffee or the train - so some Italian might have been misled and told you this.

On the dictionary side, the de Mauro dictionary reports no relation with speed except in the railway and mail context. Orzetto 00:26, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I'm from Italy too. I don't know neither put in doubt that "Ex premere" may be somewhat related to modern italian term "Espresso", however the word "Espresso" is (and afaik, was in first 20th century and maybe before) often used in the field of cousine to spot out a thing that is made expressely (and quickly) to promptly satisfy a request of the client. In example, you may go to the restaurant and ask "Vorrei una porzione di *something* espresso", meaning that you want the chef readily cook that *something* for you, not giving you something is already cooked, either because the *something* is not in the menu or because you prefer that something to be freshly cooked and not heated. So "Espresso" is something made quickly to satisfy a explicit request of the customer. I think that this sectorial meaning may be more relevant to the origin of the word "Espresso" coffe. However the origin of the word was, maybe the "presso" particle, hinting "pressato", meaning the fact that the coffe powder is pressed to distinguish it from non-pressed coffe, maybe was a somewhat important psicological factor to lead that term to be remembered and to quickly widespread in the use in Italian language.

Well, for all my fussing I'm not that attatched. If you want to change it go ahead. I'd recommend you at least reference the other meaning in the intro, though, given the Italian dictionary definitions above of Veloce, Rapido, and the fact that both myself and Marcello above (both Italian) think it's from the word "quickly". — Asbestos | Talk 10:14, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Caffeine content of Arabica vs. Robusta beans.

I thought that Arabica beans had less caffeine content than Robusta beans. Can anyone provide clarification on that? - Nicholas

Yes, that's true, but Arabica is considered to taste better. Mat-C 13:35, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It's not so much that Arabica beans taste better, but that most roasted Robusta beans taste terrible (not unlike burnt rubber smells) and are not used in 'quality' coffee outside very limited used in blends. Some of the large multi-nationals do use large amounts of Robusta beans (usually from Vietnam) in their products (often freeze dried and 'specialty coffee') but with such a large amount of processing and alteration that the discussion would not merit a mention in an article about espresso. Marc Prince, CoffeeGeek.com (27 Nov 2002) So You Say There's a Coffee Crisis.

However, I think that Robusta beans are worth a mention in an article about espresso because they are often blended into coffee for espresso machines specifically because they increase the amount of crema produced. Though there are some arabica beans that produce significant crema, robusta beans were used historically in Italy for their crema after crema became favorable (crema was considered a bad thing in the early days of the espresso machine). StateOfTheUnion 11:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed History section pending content.Mat-C 13:35, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Expresso,Espresso,meaning:

The first 'expresso' machine was in fact french,a country which uses a latin based language....and indeed,it was,and still can be called cafe express (fast). So if dictionaries,and most paople have a problem understanding the origin and meaning of the word,it is because it is actually derived from the french -a latin language- and not from italian or latin.Espresso of course is the italian word,whcihc was a(correct tranlation of the french express (rapide).To add to the confusion,the french call it today very often 'expresso' giving the word an italian flavor,without changing its meaning.

Extra emoticons

I've noticed a few emoticons sneaking into the article. I've been editing these out when I've spotted them, but I thought it best to raise the issue in case they continue to return. As far as I know emoticons are not usually considered part of a good article.

Emoticons in talk are another matter entirely.. ;)

pjf 00:55, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Stove-top espresso makers

What about the smaller, personal espresso makers (like the kind seen here)? I don't know if there is another name for them besides "espresso maker", but it's quite different and should probably be included here. You find them in almost every Italian home (the idea of having bar-like steam espresso makers in the home is very American). I don't know where one could find a usable photo, though, not having a digital camera myself. — Asbestos | Talk 10:54, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It's popularly called a Moka, but that's really a brand name. More formally, it's called a machinetta (da fare il caffè). 23 Feb 2005

They are not properly espresso makers, except for some poor (or good, depending on how you see it) English marketing. I've edited to reflect this. Please check the article on moka, this Coffee FAQ: http://coffeefaq.com/coffaq2.htm#MochaP and this FAQ on espresso: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.drink.coffee/msg/549d841ce331bc95?oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Espresso requires 9 atmospheres of pressure to have the proper emulsion of oils and proteins to form proper crema (as per the article). No crema is formed from a moka pot, which maxes out at 1-2 atmospheres of pressure. 69.195.70.145 00:58, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I very much disagree. In Italy, every family has a moka, and everyone calls this espresso. It's a very American idea that the only way you can make "true" espresso is with a steam-pressured bar-like espresso maker. People were making espressos long before anyone started talking about "atmospheres" and such.

However, since you are set in your ideas, having changed the article twice, I've asked for a second opinion at it:Discussione:Caffè. I'll await their reply.

— Asbestos | Talk 13:01, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

At the italian wikipedia they agree with you, so I'll withdraw from my position. — Asbestos | Talk 15:37, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know the stove top espresso makers, such as Bialetti, not only make a "true" espresso, but are in fact, the original espresso making equipment.

"Expresso" in USA?

I have lived in the East (Connecticut, Pennsylvania), the Midwest (Illinois, Iowa, Kansas), and the West (Wyoming, Arizona). In none of these places is this use common, although it is heard occasionally from careless English speakers. I have never seen the word spelled this way on a menu. Such misuses do not merit mention in an encyclopedia article. (You would not include President Bush's mispronunciation of "nucular" in an article about nuclear energy.) Thus I removed the phrase in the article saying that the use is common. Perhaps it is used in a region I am not familiar with. If so, please indicate the place(s). --Blainster 06:27, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

according to dictionary.com, expresso is a variant of espresso http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=expresso

I have always lived in the Western US and travel to the East Coast frequently. I frequent many coffe houses and restaurants, and I have never heard the term "expresso." I believe "Espresso is frequently mispronounced/mis-spelled as expresso in the ... US" is just plain wrong. It is so infrequently mispronouced that it is not worth mentioning. -- S. Downey

Indeed. Use of the word "expresso" is a common mistatement among people generally unfamiliar with the drink, especially those in the midwest and rural parts of the US. It most like stems from the fact that many people hearing the word for the first time have trouble discerning the pronunciation and instead make the automatic association to the word "express". At least on the surface, this seems to be a logical explanation. However, I would have to agree that to include this variant of the word would be a mistake, regardless of what an online dictionary has to say about it. BTW, the nucular reference was very well stated. -- R. Prieto

Certainly, the Italian word is espresso. However, using simple etymology, and looking at the origins, one would see that esprimere is merely the past tense of exprimere. The connection is plainly visible, and regional differences are sure to occur with the highly variable dialects present within the U.S. I have lived in New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida and California. I say "expresso," regardless of what Starbucks and Italy might say. -- R.J. Frasca

R.J., the Latin word was "exprimire." The Italian word is "esprimere." One is not a different form of the other. "Espresso" is the past participle of the Italian word. All Latin ex- words turned into es- words in Italian. Latin speakers did not drink coffee, and attempting to justify an obvious mistake by referring to the ancestor language of a loan word is silly.

I have lived in the northeast, the south, and the northwest US, as well as Italy, and I have never heard a single person who knew anything about coffee say "expresso" (other than in French, as discussed above, which is not the issue here). However, I hear it all the time from people who are obviously new to espresso-drinking. I do not equate misunderstanding with colloquialism, and I will be altering the article to reflect this. We're not talking about referring to all soda as "Coke," like people do in some areas; "expresso" is simply the result of ignorance about the correct pronunciation, which is often widespread enough (in small towns, for instance) that an untravelled observer could mistake it for a colloquialism.JustinBaeder 18:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sentence needs re-write

This sentence doesn't make sense past the first comma: "Espresso beans are coffee beans that have been roasted (generally darker than for drip coffee), finely ground, and quickly processed into a 1- to 2-ounce single serving cup of coffee." Are you talking about the bean or the drink! 65.182.61.248 03:37, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Expresso is the french name for Espresso. Just like Cafe Creme is similar to Cappuccino and Cafe au Lait is similar to Cafe Latte - Godal.

Similar but not the same. Cafe au Lait is coffee and steamed milk. Cafe Latte is espresso and steamed milk. - R. Prieto

Any barista or cafe owner in the US will explain to you that its espresso, not expresso. People new to the drink tend to confuse it even if they are reading it spelled "espresso" right in front of them. 128.211.202.189 02:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Macchiato

Hey there coffee fiends. I ran into an issue with some espresso related articles and I figured that this page probably had a wider watchlist-audience than the rest of the pages, so I'm posting a note here. First, I noticed that there are two articles for "Latte macchiato" and "Caffè Macchiato", but they both seem to describe the same drink. Even if they do describe different drinks, the capitalization is not standard between the two articles (the m is capitalized in one article name and lowercase in the other). Which is the appropriate capitalization for this? Finally, the article at Caffè macchiato seems to describe the same drink sold at most American coffeehouses as "espresso macchiato". Given the policy of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), shouldn't we name it whatever it is sold as in english-speaking countries rather than the italian name? --DDG 15:12, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm on it - i've fixed the capitalization, and will create a redirect for espresso macchiato. Nandesuka 15:49, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks there nandesuka, however, can a coffee expert enlighten us as to if the two topics are actually distinct? The slight distinction noted in the Caffè macchiato article seem to cover the need for a separate article. --DDG 16:05, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, here in Italy a caffè macchiato is an espresso with a droplet of milk, while latte macchiato is prepared in long, narrow glasses with milk at the bottom, milk foam in the middle and espresso on top. --Tridentinus 16:36, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Crema foam into this page?

I'm no espresso fan, but as this article is very short and crema is central to the espresso experience, may I suggest a merger? - Magnus Holmgren 20:34, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Go for it. (Is it just me or should that article have been titled "Crema (foam)"? ―BenFrantzDale 21:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, do it. (And yes, since it has a disambiguation page, it should have been what you suggest.)

I added the content from the crema page to the espresso article (Jan 29, 2006) Jimmy O

Adwords poisoned links...

'Your Espresso Machine' For espresso lovers. - This site seems to be of no actual value and simply links between google adwords infested blog sites. Discuss.

Agreed. It should be removed. Yakym

force vs pressure

lbs. is unit of force; lbs./sq.in. is unit of pressure.

A commercial-sized 58mm filter basket has about 4sq.in. surface area. 30lb./sq.in. implies 120lb. force - this can't be right. I believe it should be: tamp with 30lb. force.

External Links

Hey, I love Randy's site, and it's a boon to anyone interested in the Silvia and espresso, but is it wise to put linkage to "fan" sites in this document? (the espresso my espresso link) There's a reason why I never added coffeekid.com to this listing - it's just my site about coffee, my thoughts. CG made the cut (someone else added it) becuse it's the most popular coffee and espresso related website online, vis a vis traffic and membership, and it's a community site, not a single person's personal op ed or fanboy site.

I don't want to make Randy feel bad, but IMO, if we start adding fan sites, what's to stop the external links from starting to list the hundreds of espresso blogs and other assorted sites out there. Thoughts?

Added on April 5 - as you can see, there's a bit of a wikiwar to add a personal blog. IMO, the external links should be limited to established, factual, researched websites on espresso, not personal blogs. (again, sorry Randy - your site rocks - but it could start a flood).

Hip and Trendy?

I can't imagine a beverage being trendy. If you're drinking mocha because you think it looks cool you're wasting your money. You drink the stuff because it's really tasty and has enough caffiene to kick you into gear after 2 hours of sleep. Sycomonkey 23:52, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with that. The term hip and trendy is preceeded by a sentence that indicates that ". . . espresso-based drinks rose in popularity . . ." I don't think that the term hip and trendy is measurable nor does it add significantly more information than the more measurable statement about popularity in the previous sentence. More critically, this section is not geographically bounded. As such, it implies that this increase in popularity happened worldwide. This is clearly untrue as the popularity of espresso in many parts of the world was uninfluenced by recent mass commercialization and popularity of new chains in the United States and arguably some regions of Asia. There should be an indication that the recent rise in popularity is mainly a US or N. American occurance and is not something that occured in more traditional markets like Southern Europe.

StateOfTheUnion 13:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Temperature

The article states that the ideal temperature for an espresso is 90 degrees (plus or minus 5). While piping-hot espressos might be the rule in some places, in Italy espressos aren't served that hot; 70 degrees is about as high as it gets in an Italian bar. We might want to mention serving (vs. brewing) temperature somewhere, but I leave it to those of you who know more about making espresso than I do. ProhibitOnions ^(T) 22:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's the temperature of the water in the machine. The serving temperature is much lower because the cup absorbs some of the heat (even if the cup is prewarmed). However, I agree that the article seems to be ambiguous about whether the temperature given is for the water pumped through the coffee grinds or the final product.

StateOfTheUnion 13:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Barista Section and keeping op-ed out of the definitions

Just to clarify something here - Starbucks has been using the term "barista" for their counter staff since the very first expansion stores into Chicago and Vancouver, and possibly before that. Seattle veterans have told me that it was in use at Il Giorniale when Schultz first opened those locations. The fact is, Starbucks mainstreamed the term, even though they cannot copyright it (lord knows they've tried).

In the 1990s, when Starbucks began selling espresso machines and other brewing devices for consumers (ironically, copying Peets), they were branded under the original names of the manufacturers - Gaggia and Saeco. The Estro Vapore was one of their more popular sellers in the 1990s. In Vancouver, they sold Gaggia Baby and Classic models. The "Barista" line did not appear until at least 2000, when they brokered a deal with Saeco Italy do do some cosmetic upgrades on the Estro machine, introduce new colours, and launched it as the "Starbucks Barista" espresso machine. The grinder came possibly earlier - it is a Solis grinder, but was rebadged by Starbucks around the turn of the millenium to be the Barista grinder. The 10 cup thermal coffee maker came later. At one point, Starbucks had 3 custom branded espresso machines - an automatic, and two semi-autos. Currently, they only offer the Barista (higher priced semi-auto) and of course the super automatic machines.

Also, I think it's the goal to keep op / ed opinions as much as possible away from Wikipedia - and keep things factual. Making opinion statements like "since Starbucks counter people are now just button pushers, using the term barista seems like a joke" is not, IMO, suitable for Wiki. Just my $0.02 on that. Save the starbies bashing for the blogs ;)Coffeegeek 00:58, 15 June 2006 (PDT)

Caffeine content

Regarding the bit about caffeine content in the Popularity and Misconceptions section, 350mg sounds in no way ordinary for a cup of coffee.

http://wilstar.com/caffeine.htm

That site suggests that it's much lower, 8-12mg of caffeine per ounce for instant coffee instead of 29mg per ounce for instant coffee.

I would personally consider espresso to have an abnormally high amount of caffeine seeing as how one ounce of espresso has four times the amount of caffeine as an ounce of normal coffee.

Unless somebody objects, I'm just taking that bit out tomorrow.

--68.191.39.170 19:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, a shot of espresso has about the same amount of caffeine as a cup of coffee. It has more caffeine per ounce, but you drink less of it. So a drink based on a shot of espresso will not have much more caffeine than a cup of coffee. I think that a lot of people think that lattes, etc, have more caffeine than they really do.

Yesno 13:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's like saying that nuclear fusion doen't have a high energy content in comparison to TNT exploding, because you can have a small amount of nuclear fusion or a large amount of TNT.

Well, not a great comparison, but you get the point.

--24.147.76.161 01:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see where you're going, but I don't agree. Lots of people drink cappucinos and lattes and other drinks based on espresso. I'd bet that more people drink these than drink actual shots of espresso or Americanos and whatnot. So the average espresso drink that people drink does not have more caffeine than coffee. This is only interesting to point out because a lot of people think the opposite. It is related to how people who drink a 500+ calorie "coffee" don't understand why they can't lose weight.

Types of Espresso Machines

Is there a reference for the statement about cost not mattering with regard to espresso machines? There are several different designs; cost and design are certainly considerations. I wonder if there is some context to the statement that could be added. For example, some machines have poor temperature control that drifts. Others tend to underheat the water as they get older. Others have pumps that tend to "spurt" rather than holding a fairly constant pressure. The blanket statement made in the article implies that none of these are important considerations, however there is no reference as to who made this statement and under what context. "Everything else remaining constant" may be referring to the design of the machine being constant. If that is the case then the statement implies that different designs cannot be compared with respect to price or performance. Or the statement may not consider the performance of a machine over time. Should this be clarified to reduce the ambiguity of the statement? StateOfTheUnion 11:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Brewing process confusion

The section explaining the brewing process uses too much technical jargon without explaining what these things are. Without an image of an espresso machine already in one's mind, it would be very difficult to figure out what actually occurs during this process.

Agreed. Mas2265 02:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How-to link

I came across a pretty good tutorial on preparing espresso at home, but before adding the link to an article I haven't edited before, I thought I should run it by folks here. It appears on a commercial site (Whole Latte Love) that sells brewing and grinding equipment, but the article does not push any particular brand or product. Thoughts? | Mr. Darcy talk 01:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is actually a guideline against how-to sections on Wikipedia, but that sort of thing is, I believe exactly what Wikibooks is for. ENeville 20:57, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]