Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Loreen Hall

Loreen Hall

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Request by the article subject at ticket:2018040210005718.

She writes:

The person who wrote the Wiki Stub page about me, Loreen Hall is clearly trying to discredit my achievements in British Athletics. I am a low profile person and I am not current nor famous, but in conjunction to this everything they've written is incorrect and pure speculation, accept for my name, date of birth and that I competed in the Seoul Olympic Games at 20, which was 30 yrs ago.
That Wiki page about me provides 4 source links that lead to 2 websites in total, of which both websites: 1. are not reliable sources, since they are not owned by or have been created by British Athletics or The Olympic Board 2. both websites have been created by a random person or a a fan of athletics, which is NOT reliable. 3. Both websites are flagged by google as being unsafe 4. The WIKI stub that has been written about me is filled with lies. (i.e. non of the sources they provided support what they wrote about me accept my name, date of birth and that I competed in the Seoul Olympic Games. The rest is PURE speculation on the writers behalf and made up.
An accurate Account of my Athletic Career, which does not match what is on the Wiki page about me There is ONLY one link on the whole internet that mentions a complete history of my athletic career and it leads to an interview done by the BBC, who are a HIGHLY reliable source on British athletic history. FIND AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT of my British Athletic career HERE.
At the beginning of the interview you will hear the interviewer read from a list of all my achievements. Then re-read what the Wiki stub says about me and you will see it is highly incorrect and is much more of an attempt to play down and discredit my achievements.
'Loreen Hall' Wiki Stub page Is Filled With Lies and Inaccuracies
All of the above renders the Wiki page about me 'Loreen Hall' inaccurate and totally useless and this is why I am requesting it be deleted. (Coupled with the fact I am very ill and cannot cope with the stress it is causing me).

She also writes:

I do not consider myself a public figure or celebrity. (me: WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE)

talk to !dave 20:38, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Related discussion Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Olympics#What_if_someone_wants_their_article_deleted? Adam9007 (talk) 20:43, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Question: Dave, is it confirmed that the requester actually is Loreen Hall? The same request has been made here on Wikipedia, and there is discussion about it as Adam linked above, but we have had no confirmation of the identity of the user making the request. --MelanieN (talk) 20:48, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ack, that's a good question. Joe jobbers unfortunately do exist, but I won't be able to fulfil that request on the OTRS side right now because I am off to bed. I do apologise. (Britishness confirmed there -- apologising for needing to go to sleep?) I'll sort it out tomorrow. talk to !dave 20:56, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Question FIND AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT of my British Athletic career HERE I assume "HERE" is the BBC interview? Adam9007 (talk) 20:59, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I would assume this was the link she gave. I'm not going to comment further here until after the other discussion gets a little further along. --MelanieN (talk) 21:04, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Strangely, on that self-hosted link she specifically describes herself as a public figure, directly contradicting the statement above. This raises questions about the veracity of the request. The subject also runs what appears to be quite a successful business in NaturalNotts so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of this request actually coming from someone (e.g. business rival) looking to denigrate the subject's online presence. SFB 00:58, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Sillyfolkboy: I received an email from the account -- it has a different email address to the one that is sending us emails on OTRS. Rather suspect, not?? talk to !dave 07:11, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

After some consideration, that is not as suspect as it seems. talk to !dave 15:55, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dave: I agree it is not necessarily suspicious - it's not unusual for a person to give one email address for their Wikipedia account and use another one for their general, personal email. But the question is, is there evidence that the emails received at OTRS came from the real Loreen Hall? To me that makes all the difference in how seriously to take this request. --MelanieN (talk) 23:44, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. MarginalCost (talk) 21:30, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. MarginalCost (talk) 21:30, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. MarginalCost (talk) 21:30, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Participation does not confer automatic notability. Reywas92^Talk 22:02, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Hall passes the notability guidelines. This request is not particularly convincing. Improper use of all caps? Check. Over-the-top claim that the article is full of lies? Check. False claim that a reliable website (Sports-Reference.com) is not reliable? Check. Ploy for sympathy with sad story about health and stress? Check. Maybe I'm wrong and this request really is from Loreen Hall, but in that case she's going to have to do better if she wants to convince us. Lepricavark (talk) 22:26, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I'm struggling to find anything in the biography that could be construed as defamatory, intrusive or insulting to the subject, but there is absolutely nothing of that sort there. It's just a bare, factual account of her performances at athletics tournaments. Personally, I would take pride if I had achieved any one of the feats mentioned. The sources used are among the most reputable you could find – GBR Athletics, owned by Athletics Weekly (the foremost British publication on the sport), and Power of 10, which is the official statistical provider for British athletics. I would strongly oppose deletion on privacy grounds – Hall is a public figure as an Olympian and, by the above admission, recently spoke to the BBC to give an overview of her career. I see no reason to change our coverage here. SFB 00:35, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Apart from competing at the Olympics, there is other coverage of her, that has been added to the article, and correctly sourced. There's nothing (that I can see) that is untrue, or would warrant removal from a BLP point of view. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 06:45, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes WP:NOLY; an individual is deemed notable for inclusion (rightly or wrongly) if they participated in a late nineteenth-century Summer Olympics, let alone one from "only" thirty years ago. No particular opinion on the veracity or otherwise of the takedown request; but note that WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE is pretty specifically confined to poorly sourced biographical articles of unknown, non-public figures, where the discussions have no editor opposing the deletion, only. —SerialNumber54129^{paranoia /cheap shit room} 09:33, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - as has been said, she clearly passes notability guidelines as per WP:NOLY. As Serial number points out, the deletion request does not appear to meet WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE. And as Lugnuts and Sillyfolkboy correctly point out, the article does not appear salacious, but is simply a factual recitation of her career. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:07, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I can't help but sympathize when someone who asks for BLPREQUESTDELETE, and though I don't see anything defamatory or libelous in the article I can understand privacy concerns, but per WP:NOLYMPICS there's no way the subject is not notable for Wikipedia. Sro23 (talk) 19:35, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. If a subject identified through the OTRS demonstrates information written about them being false we have nothing to justify keeping it. Taking that information out of the equation, we don't have enough remaining to claim sufficient notability.T v x1 22:07, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Tvx1: This is not an accurate description of the situation. The information in the article is not only neutral and verifiable by reputable sources, but it is also supported by the interview provided by the subject. It remains entirely unclear what exact facts the subject disputes, and the sourcing for all the information in the article comes from major publications and statisticians for the sport. SFB 22:54, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the person sending the emails - and editing here - has not yet been confirmed to be the subject. --MelanieN (talk) 23:38, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As the person who expanded the article, I take issue with the claim that I'm "clearly trying to discredit (her) achievements in British athletics", which is most certainly not the case. The BBC interview mentions an event I was previously unaware of, the Australia Games. If she feels discredited because an event like that is not listed, the only reason for its absence is that although the 1985 Australia Games (which was a one-off multi-sport event) does have a wikipedia article, it has no links to any track results. The closest I've found is an Australian pdf which gives the Australian athletes results (e.g. Nicole Boegman 4th in the 100m), but no info on who won the 100/200/400m. My reasons for expanding the article (as with all athletes pages that I've expanded) is to accurately enhance, not diminish the person's achievements. As pointed out by Sillyfolkboy, you won't get many more reputable sources than GBR Athletics (Athletics Weekly) or Power of 10 (UK Athletics). Some of the info is even backed up by the BBC radio interview, including the info about being British number one in 1987 (52.74), doing the Olympic qualifying time in 1988 (52.71) and her career coming to an end at 20/21, which is the reason the article info does not go beyond 1988. If it is Ms Hall, then it would be helpful to know what facts are in fact disputed. L1975p (talk) 08:12, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

delete. These are the reasons I applied for the deletion of this article and would still like it deleted:
The article is not a true account of my British Athletic career in that there is too much important data missing, which renders it not accurate as a whole. The missing data is.....> all the gold medals I won throughout my Team GB career, which @L1975p ended 1992.
. On reading the article, before it was changed and even as it stands now, one would not know I won manly gold medals, 2 silvers and 1 bronze.
I'm a 3x Gold Medalist - 1985 Australian Games, 100m, 200m, 400m.
I'm a Gold medalist of The Cosford Indoor Championships, 16th March, 1985 400m (during which I broke the indoor 400m track record twice, once during the heats, then broke my own record in the final.)
I'm a Gold Medalist of the Women's Team GB Women's 4 x 400m Relay Norway 1987
I'm a Silver Medalist of the Women's Team GB 4 x 400m relay at the Gateshead European Games, during which I ran against Flo Jo
I'm a Silver Medalist of the 1987 Women's Olympic Trials WAAA - @L1975p, you wrote I finished 2nd?? I earned silver Medal at the Olympic Trials, why are you so hesitant to give me my titles?
I'm a Gold Medalist of the Cyprus Games, 1992 100m
I won gold medals at every Team GB international championship, throughout Europe, from 1984 to 1985 400m and some gold medals after this timeframe.
NOTABILITY: Me competing in the games does not make a chronologically incorrect profile on me OK to be kept on Wiki, so much data is missing and there are no new sources that can be added to substantiate what I have outlined above, by way of achievements. @MelanieN said you cannot use the link for my BBC interview because it was uploaded on my Soundcloud account. So there are no other sources that can be used to improve and correctly support the gold and silver medals I won. The article therefore, is incorrect and will remain incorrect if kept. Berture77 (talk) 15:06, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Might I add the BBC interview was not aired nationally in was just an interview at a local radio station in my city, not the whole of the UK. And the only reason they contacted me is because they could not get hold of any current Olympians to speak about preparing for the Olympics as an athlete.
Also on closer inspection, the website sports-reference.com has spelt my middle name incorrect, which means that is not a source that should be used.

The only bronze medal I won was in the 4 x 400m relay at the European cup. The article you wrote @L1975p leads with that bronze medal and gives the impression it's the most major medal I've won?? Where is the mention of all my gold medals?? I'm a Gold Medalist several times over, but the article you wrote does not portray this. Thus, rendering it aninaccurate account of my British Athletic Career. My BBC interview is a legitimate interview with facts that they researched before having me in their studio.

The timeline has too many gaps, which as a whole portrays me as a mediocre athlete who just about made it to the Olympics, which is not true @L1975p. You speak as though you know exactly what took place and you don't. I won the Midlands championships, before the Olympic Trials (oh yeah, there's another gold Medal) and had previously achieved the Olympic qualifying time, 52.71, before I won Silver at the Olympic trials. THIS is what earned me automatic selection for the 1988 Seoul Olympic Games. I earned that spot, thank you very much. (Before and during the Olympics I had a torn hamstring. Anyone that was following British Athletics at that time would know this an The Olympic Board do not select any and anyone.... they took their chances on me because of my track record... they had faith in me to heal from my injury, during the acclimatization period in Japan, before we flew onto Seoul. I competed at the Olympics injured).
The writer of the article wrote in his unedited version, I failed to to get through to the final .... like really?? Most of my Athletic career was filled with wins and the public would not know this by reading your article with your downplay of my achievements and missing data.
The writer is unable to add anything more that could accurately sum up my athletic career and so the whole article should be removed, since in its entirety, it's an incorrect summary of the situation. i.e. Loreen Hall's athletic career. Berture77 (talk) 14:45, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Berture77 (talk • contribs) 14:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Berture77: That certainly reinforces your notability, Wikipedia-wise :) did you send the original email to OTRS? —SerialNumber54129^{paranoia /cheap shit room} 14:31, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Olympic athlete = notable. Simple. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure I need to respond but anyway...

Hall did not finish second at the Olympics trials in 1988. 1st was Linda Keough (51.09) automatic selection, 2nd was Pat Beckford (52.49) automatic selection and third was Janet Smith (52.89) who earned relay selection. Hall earned (notice here and at the article I use the word earned) the third discretionary place thanks to her 52.71 at the midland champs in June '88 (mentioned on the page). If Hall had been top two at the trials (which she wasn't) the Olympic board wouldn't have the option to "(take) their chance on me", as she would have got automatic selection. They "took their chances", because she didn't make the top two at the trials but had ran the standard in June. Hall talks about this in the BBC radio interview
The article says Hall won a European Junior Championships bronze (not European Cup). The Euro Juniors is a Major Championships, and a medal there is more notable than winning lesser events such as the midland champs, national junior champs or other less notable international events (which even the person claiming to be Hall can't specify). "Gold medallist several times over", yes, but not at event as notable as the Euro Juniors.
The timeline doesn't have gaps. It says Hall ran an impressive 53.08 at 16 (1984) won a major champs medal at 17 (1985), finished second at the 1987 AAA champs (not in Olympic year), was British number one at 19 (1987) and went to the Olympics at 20 (1988). On the BBC Nottingham radio interview, Hall talks about her track career ending when she was 21 (1989). Where's the gaps? L1975p (talk) 15:37, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]