Wikipedia talk:WikiProject South Africa

Wikimedia ZA Annual General Meeting 2017

This is just to let everyone know that the Wikimedia ZA AGM will be taking place in November 2017 in Cape Town. See below for more details.

• Time: Sunday, 26 November 2017, starts at 14:00 to 17:00
• Location: 6 Spin Street Restaurant (in the Tutu room at the back), ground floor, 6 Spin Street, in the Cape Town city bowl area.

If you would like to attend digitally we will be broadcasting the event over Google Hangouts, to join click on the link here.

The event page can be found on the Wikimedia ZA website here.

The AGM is open to all South African based Wikipedia and other Wikimeddia project editors. Membership is required to vote on resolutions but not required to attend. People are able to sign up as members at the AGM or they can signup before hand at the details on the Wikimedia ZA website.

Lorry or truck?

In South African English, do you use the word "lorry" or "truck"? Mjroots (talk) 16:20, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

I have seen both used, but truck is the preferred term in SAE. It is also pretty much the exclusively used term in news sources in South Africa.--DSBennie (talk) 18:16, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. The issue has now been resolved in the 2018 Kroonstad train crash article. Assistance now sought expanding it from SA news sources. Mjroots (talk) 18:19, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Assistance please - Barclays Africa

Hi there Wikipedians,

I am a paid employee of the communications company for Barclays Africa Group Limited (BAGL). We've just posted on the Talk page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barclays_Africa_Group#Factual_inaccuracies) highlighting several aspects that are factually inaccurate/ out of date. I would sincerely appreciate any assistance you can provide in making changes that are possible. They are all referenced. However, as a newbie to Wiki, I was not able to keep formatting or clearly mark the changes, so the table has come 'undone' as such. Assistance with that would also be helpful, as Dr Google was not.

Thanks so much, and have an awesome 2018.

Nicola Mawson (talk) 10:11, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Updated some of the old figures in the Infoxbox to 31 Dec 2016 - last annual report. Will update again after release of 2017 final figures. Updated the names of the 12 Key people. Will look at the rest of suggestions on talk page for relevancy later in the weekend.Conlinp (talk) 12:09, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Appreciate it Conlinp. How long does it take for the changes to reflect on the actual Wikipedia page? Nicola Mawson (talk) 05:19, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Generally changes are visible immediately (unless special protection measures are in place, which is not the case here). Batternut (talk) 14:51, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Conlinp and Batternut. I appreciate your assistance! Can you please update ownership figures? Barclays PLC holds 14.9% currently. I'm happy to send a Word doc showing highlighted changes, although I lose formatting when I paste into here. Nicola Mawson (talk) 08:59, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Nicola Mawson Found a reference and updated Barclays PLC ownership percentage (info box) and at two other places. Main ownership table will have to wait until 2017 Annual Report. Hope that helps.Conlinp (talk) 10:54, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks so much Conlinp! It is a bit incongruent though to have X% in the one section, and Y% in another. PLC (Barclays PLC) sold down quite a bit at end Nov, and the figures we sent are true as of that date. Thanks Nicola Mawson (talk) 11:22, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Conlinp

Below is are the group’s 10 largest shareholders as at 30 November 2017:

Largest shareholders 30 November 2017 (%) Barclays Bank PLC (UK) 14.9 Financial Institutions on behalf of Public Investment Corporation (SA) 7.12 Old Mutual Asset Managers (SA) 4.62 Allan Gray 4.13 BlackRock, Inc. (US, UK) 2.95 Prudential Investment Managers (SA) 2.95 The Vanguard Group (US, AU) 2.70 Schroders PLC (US) 1.96 Mondrian Investment Partners (UK) 2.22 Sanlam Investment Management 1.90 Other 46.07

Nicola Mawson (talk) 10:19, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Nicola Mawson. The site is locked out, Wikipedia requires references that are accessible by all users for verification. A suggestion would be to have the Barclays Africa webpage updated as that is where the original reference and information came from. Sorry I cant help you further. Regards Paul.Conlinp (talk) 04:44, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Conlinp,

I've searched all over, and the only publicly-available source is via IOL. However, as it's a widget, there is no link. The SENS is pasted below, and here is the link for verification: https://www.iol.co.za/business-report/market-indicators

1 Dec 2017, 8:14	 	BARCLAYS AFRICA GROUP LIMITED - Further reduction by Barclays PLC of its shareholding in Barclays Africa to 14.9% and section 122 notice

BGA 201712010011A Further reduction by Barclays PLC of its shareholding in Barclays Africa to 14.9% and section 122 notice

BARCLAYS AFRICA GROUP LIMITED Incorporated in the Republic of South Africa Registration number: 1986/003934/06 ISIN: ZAE000174124 JSE share code: BGA (“Barclays Africa”)

FURTHER REDUCTION BY BARCLAYS PLC (“BARCLAYS”) OF ITS SHAREHOLDING IN BARCLAYS AFRICA TO 14.9% AND SECTION 122 NOTICE

1. FURTHER REDUCTION BY BARCLAYS OF ITS SHAREHOLDING IN BARCLAYS AFRICA TO 14.9%

On 1 June 2017, shareholders were advised that Barclays had reduced its total interest in Barclays Africa to 23.4% from 50.1%, in addition to which: - 1.5% would be contributed by Barclays to a broad-based black economic empowerment (“B- BBEE”) scheme in due course; and - 7.0% would be taken up by the Public Investment Corporation SOC Limited (“PIC”) on a deferred completion, subject to receipt of all necessary regulatory approvals by the PIC, following which Barclays’ total interest in Barclays Africa would be approximately 15%.

On 4 September 2017, a transaction was effected in which the 1.5% stake in Barclays Africa was transferred from Barclays to an interim B-BBEE structure which was established by Barclays Africa, and accordingly Barclays’ total interest in Barclays Africa was reduced to 21.9%. The intention is that these shares will be held in the interim B-BBEE structure for a period before ultimately being applied towards a new Barclays Africa B-BBEE scheme. Further details will be announced in due course.

As noted above, the transfer of the 7.0% stake in Barclays Africa to the PIC is subject to regulatory approval. Pending receipt of such approvals, pursuant to an agreement between Barclays, the PIC and the local subsidiaries of two international financial institutions (the “Financial Institutions”), Barclays transferred (subject to settlement) the 7.0% stake in Barclays Africa to the Financial Institutions on 30 November 2017. This agreement is broadly a continuation of the previous agreement between Barclays and the PIC and was therefore concluded at a price of R136.09 per share. The intention is: - for the Financial Institutions to hold 4.0% and 3.0%, respectively, in Barclays Africa (at which level, no regulatory approval is required); and - for the PIC to ultimately take ownership of the 7.0% stake in Barclays Africa from the Financial Institutions, subject to it receiving all necessary regulatory approvals . Following the contribution to the interim B-BBEE structure and the transfer to the Financial Institutions, Barclays’ total interest in Barclays Africa is at 14.9%. Barclays has indicated that this represents its desired long term shareholding in Barclays Africa and that no further sales are planned at this time.

2. SECTION 122 NOTICE

Pursuant to the above and in accordance with section 122 (3)(b) of the Companies Act, No. 71 of 2008 (“the Companies Act”) and section 3.83(b) of the Listings Requirements of the JSE Limited, Barclays Africa shareholders are advised that Barclays Africa has received formal notification from Barclays that its total interest in Barclays Africa has been reduced to 126,145,303 ordinary shares (14.9%) from 185,487,851 ordinary shares (21.9%).

As required in terms of Section 122 of the Companies Act, the required notice will be filed with the Takeover Regulation Panel.

Johannesburg 1 December 2017

Enquiries: Alan Hartdegen (Head of Investor Relations) +27 (0) 11 350 2598 E-mail: Alan.Hartdegen@barclaysafrica.com

Independent lead sponsor to Barclays Africa: J.P. Morgan Equities South Africa Proprietary Limited

Joint sponsor to Barclays Africa: Corporate and Investment Bank, a division of Absa Bank Limited

Date: 01/12/2017 08:14:00 Produced by the JSE SENS Department. The SENS service is an information dissemination service administered by the JSE Limited ('JSE'). The JSE does not, whether expressly, tacitly or implicitly, represent, warrant or in any way guarantee the truth, accuracy or completeness of the information published on SENS. The JSE, their officers, employees and agents accept no liability for (or in respect of) any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential loss or damage of any kind or nature, howsoever arising, from the use of SENS or the use of, or reliance on, information disseminated through SENS.

Nicola Mawson (talk) 13:01, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi, Conlinp I have sourced this, which is an official SENS, but from the company's website.

https://www.barclaysafrica.com/content/dam/barclays-africa/bagl/pdf/sens/2017/jul-dec/BAGL-final-sens-announcement.pdf

I trust this works. Nicola Mawson (talk) 10:54, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

References

Gun Owners South Africa

Hi

I wish to edit the Gun Owners of South Africa wikipedia entry to add a large amount of new detail about the organisation. The organisation has morphed and grown considerably to what is currently shown there. However, the 'edit' buttons are missing, thus I cannot do what I need to do. It was suggested I come here to ask about this. I have an active interest in and am an expert in South African firearm legislation (I have already added edits to the Firearms Control Act wiki page due to inaccuracies etc), and would appreciate being added to any groups necessary, or at least being directed in the correct way. I am a volunteer with Gun Owners South Africa, and am very active within the organisation as well.

Regards

Jonathan Wright

Decima ZA (talk) 10:11, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia workshop in Cape Town: Saturday 20th January

Wikimedia South Africa (the South Africa chapter for Wikimedia editors) is running a number of Wikipedia workshops at the American Corner at the Central Library Cape Town this year as we run up to the Wikimania 2018 conference on the 18-22 July at the University of Cape Town.

The first workshop of the year will be happening this Saturday the 20th January (from 10:00 to 16:00) at the American Corner at the Cape Town Central Library on Grand Parade.

• Where: American Corner, Cape Town Library, 1 Parade St, Cape Town City Centre, Cape Town, 8000
• When: Saturday, 20th January 2018, 10:00-16:00

The event is open to the public and people are welcome to come and go as they please throughout the day. You are welcome to bring your own computer but you don't have to if you don't want to as the American corner will have devices we can use.

So if you are interested in learning more about Wikipedia, Wikimania, Wikimedia South Africa or just want to hang out then please join us. --Discott (talk) 10:01, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Please assist at National anthem of South Africa

See the latest few edits and assist an obviously good faith new editor to avoid an edit war. I requested User:HansNel to discuss the edits on the article talk page, some third party guidance would be appreciated. Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:59, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

GA nomination of Johnny Clegg

I have just nominated Johnny Clegg for a GA review. I'd appreciate it if someone would do the review with me. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:27, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Separating Apartheid Era South Africa and the modern Republic of South Africa Page

What do you guys think of doing that? There's just such a big difference between the two it might be useful to have an overview of the country before the end of Apartheid and after. From when it became a republic until the end of the national party governance in 1994. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SailingOn (talk • contribs) 18:38, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

What are you proposing, exactly? Splitting the South Africa article into two separate articles, like Zimbabwe and Rhodesia? --Katangais (talk) 19:01, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Splitting South Africa is clearly not a viable option, I think there may be scope for a new article. Republic of South Africa is currently a redirect to South Africa but Union of South Africa exists as a separate article. Republic of South Africa could serve as such an overview article - we are in fact currently the "third republic" (to borrow a term from the French). First was the 1961 constitution, second was the Tricameral Parliament era of the constitution of 1983, then the third and current post-apartheid dispensation of the mid 1990's (interim constitution of 1994 and current 1996 constitution). Coverage of the three constitutional systems is not comprehensive yet so there is plenty space for developing further articles. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

May I suggest the creation of Draft:Constitutional history of South Africa as an overview starting from the Treaty of Vereeniging and the creation of the Union of South Africa up to the present. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:56, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Draft:South African presidential election 2018

I've quickly put together the above draft, please feel free to contribute as events develop. Keep in mind this article is meant to only cover today's election and its aftermath. It may of course at some point be merged into a larger article but I thought it best to draft it as a distinct separate article. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:20, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

South African presidential election, 2018 is now a "live" mainspace article, please feel free to improve it. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:10, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Jarryd Coetsee

Hi South African Wikipedians

Could an editor please review and accept (if everything is OK) my first and very short contribution (a draft article about the film-maker Jarryd Coetsee) to Wikipedia? Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jarryd_Coetsee Much appreciated. Mockby123 Mockby 123 (talk) 10:37, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

I've moved it from Draft to Article space and created links from various pages. Zaian (talk) 10:14, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Current politicians - and redirects

Hallo, @Rigleybr: is creating a large number of well-sourced stubs for current SA ministers (I've found some while stub-sorting), but they are often using short forms of name which do not correspond to those in the template {{Current MPs of South Africa}}. Eg Pam Tshwete: when I added a redirect in from Pamela Tshwete it linked from a vast number of articles, many but not all via that template - see here. Someone familiar with SA politicians might like to tidy up that template, or create the redirects, or move the articles. Over to you.

And to everyone, a plea: please create redirects, dab page entries, or hatnotes from all plausible versions of a subject's name - you never know when they'll turn up on some formal list with their full Sunday name, or appear with their married/maiden name, or some different number of middle names. Redirects are free and enhance our encyclopedia: they help the reader find what they want, and reduce the chance of some future enthusiastic editor creating a duplicate article at another title! Thanks. PamD 09:06, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Northern Cape cricket team

Sorry, all. Forget this. I missed a trick. Good luck with your project. 86.177.251.187 (talk) 05:09, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Oakbay Investments

I have a draft about the company in my userspace at User:Dodger67/Sandbox/Oakbay Investments. I'm looking for interested editors to collaborate with me in completing the draft. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:22, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

South African English Article Updates

Hi everyone, In the next few weeks I plan to edit and add to the South African English page. I have noticed that much of the material on this page is uncited, and the lead section could use some streamlining. I will primary focus on areas of phonetics and sociolinguistics, since these areas are the focus of the class I am doing research for. Let me know if you have any suggestions or helpful resources!Sparks9714 (talk) 23:52, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Football or soccer?

A question has been posted on the Football/Soccer WikiProject about the correct terminology to use when dealing with SA subjects. It would be great if members of this project could contribute to the conversation. Thanks, Nzd (talk) 00:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Ending the system of portals

Hello, there's a proposal to delete all Wikipedia portals. Please see the discussion here. --NaBUru38 (talk) 14:02, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

South African film producers Genevieve Hofmeyr, Phillip Key and Moonlighting Film Production Services

Hello South African Wikipedians

I have created three draft articles about two prominent South African film producers and their successful South African film production company:

1.) Genevieve Hofmeyr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Genevieve_Hofmeyr ) 2.) Moonlighting Film Production Services (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Moonlighting_Film_Production_Services). 3.) Phillip Key (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Phillip_Key_(film_producer)#Phillip_Key_(film_producer))

Here is a link to the website of Moonlighting Film Production Services which Genevieve Hofmeyr and Phillip Key co-founded, based in Cape Town: http://www.moonlighting.co.za/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mockby 123 (talk • contribs) 08:02, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Could an editor please review and accept if the articles are suitable?

Thank you Mockby123 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mockby 123 (talk • contribs) 21:32, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Mockby123, I have reviewed and accepted all three articles. Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. I have however tagged an issue in all three - the filmography lists are in reverse order, please rearrange them into proper chronological order. Unlike a CV which fronts the subject's most recent work, a Wikipedia biography should be in historical order - birth to death. The content of the Career sections should also be sorted like that. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:33, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Assistance please, updates to finances, executives and shareholders at Barclays Africa

Hi all,

I would appreciate your kind assistance once again. Barclays Africa has recently published annual results, and shuffled its executive.

I have added several changes to the Barclays Africa page, and my input can be viewed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barclays_Africa_Group#Financial,_shareholding_and_executive_updates

I have also updated the shareholding table re major shareholders and geographic split.

I'd appreciate assistance in updating these changes, as the page is a quite out of date.

Thanks so much! And a great long weekend for all! Nicola Mawson (talk) 19:27, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Capitalisation of races

Howzit all.

There has been a recent discussion at Talk:Apartheid concerning the capitalisation of races. I have generally objected to this practice because capitalising races is not covered under MOS:CAPS, but @DumaTorpedo: raised the interesting point that "black South African" is considered a reference to all races other than white than South Africa, including Coloureds and Asian South Africans. Duma has suggested that we capitalise "Black" on the Apartheid article accordingly.

As this may set a precedent for all articles written in South African English in the future, I want to ensure this topic is thoroughly discussed here. Should "Black" always be capitalised when used in reference to Bantu peoples in South Africa? Should lowercase "black" only be used as a general term to denote a non-white South African?

Thanks, --Katangais (talk) 17:05, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, thanks for considering my opinions :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DumaTorpedo (talk • contribs) 03:46, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

What evidence supports the options? · · · Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 06:38, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi peter, the following sources back up my claims that “black” implies all those non-white ( especially Asians) in South Africa

MOS:CAPS does require races to be capatalised because when we are referring to a specific race, we are referring to a specific group of people and thus the terms Black South African and White South African for example are proper names which according the style and general practice in English need to start with a capital. --DSBennie (talk) 08:13, 1 May 2018 (UTC)