Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2018 Eastern Canada heat wave

2018 Eastern Canada heat wave

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Trivia. Wikipedia is not about summer weather. — JFG ^talk 07:08, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 07:37, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 07:40, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Not trivia. Many people have died. As a result of these deaths, governments may pay more attention to protecting at-risk people during future heat waves. Also, other weather events such as hurricanes are recognized as notable. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 07:42, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As sad as it is, many people die every day from traffic accidents, from heat, from cold, from malnutrition, falling from ladders, or drowning. Barring a demonstrably exceptional death toll, such events are not encyclopedic. — JFG ^talk 08:07, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - clearly notable with historic significance. Persisting coverage. Störm (talk) 07:45, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Historic significance" cannot be assessed mere days into the event. This is WP:RECENTISM at its finest. — JFG ^talk 08:03, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes Störm. That is a pure POV reason, with nothing to back it up. HiLo48 (talk)

Delete These events make lovely, immediate, tabloid news, but really need time to pass before a proper assessment can be made as to their real impact. The strange humidex figure is pretty meaningless since it doesn't seem to be used anywhere else, and is wrongly used in the article anyway, with a degree symbol and a conversion to Fahrenheit. (Yes, I followed the link. So should you.) That shows that the writer didn't know what they were talking about. Claiming a record for an index no-one else uses is not a good look. This line about the deaths in Montreal is telling - "...did not cause a rise above the city's overall daily death average". I have thunderstorm warnings current for my city right now, but don't intend to write an article about it. HiLo48 (talk) 08:38, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The temperature in degrees is how hot it feels. The thermometer might give another answer and still be right, but that's because it's made of glass and mercury, not human gunk. Readers (as opposed to meters) are more in tune with human gunk, so relaying the humidex paints a clearer picture than "the truth" would. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:09, July 7, 2018 (UTC)

Keep or merge - Keep or merge per Eastmain and Störm. There is a discussion taking place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2018 North American heat wave about whether or not to keep 2018 North American heat wave. If this article can not be kept, it should be merged with that article, as it has affected the United States. --Jax 0677 (talk) 09:49, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep record temperatures set all across eastern Canada ought give this one some lasting significance, it's certainly not "trivial summer weather", a number of fatalities, plenty of WP:RS covering it even if it's still stubby. Ideally an admin could speedy keep this since it's currently being considered at WP:ITN/C. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:48, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The article doesn't actually say there have been record temperatures all across eastern Canada. If your claim is true, the article isn't telling the story very well. HiLo48 (talk) 10:55, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ok so tag it for improvement, not deletion. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:58, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen no evidence that could improve it. HiLo48 (talk) 11:06, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here are a few: [1] [2] [3]. Was the lead story on national news broadcasts and print for days. If a rationale for delete is "article is a stub and I can't be bothered to even see if it can be expanded, let alone do the work" then I think Wikipedia may be doomed... --LaserLegs (talk) 11:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If we allow garbage interpretations of sensationalist news reports to persist, Wikipedia will be doomed. HiLo48 (talk) 01:49, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – Actually, there's an article devoted to said types of weather, located at Extreme weather. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:47, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. Folks do seem to want their own experiences to be globally significant, when no evidence has been presented that they are. HiLo48 (talk) 01:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure where the "Global significance" criteria is at WP:N but to give some context to "folks" and "their own experiences", the affected region is roughly the Quebec City–Windsor Corridor (admittedly the article needs improvement) which is a densely populated part of Canada with roughly half the national population. This isn't "local" in scope, I'm afraid. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:36, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep a heat wave that has killed 34 people is not trivia. Lepricavark (talk) 15:13, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please prove that it killed 34 people, and that this is more extreme than a normal hot summer. HiLo48 (talk) 01:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't need to further prove something that is covered by a reliable source already cited in the article. Lepricavark (talk) 02:57, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources are actually very rare for events like this. Almost all media outlets get very excited. I would want to see the number of deaths over recent days compared with deaths in any summer hot spell. An isolated figure means almost nothing. HiLo48 (talk) 04:47, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@HiLo48: I already provided links above, but since you insist, here is a WP:RS the CBC [4]. In case you can't click the link, the headline is: "Death toll jumps to 34 as heat wave continues to bake southern Quebec". Here is another article from the national publication The Globe and Mail which cites "extreme weather" and "record-breaking 34c". This will be the second time I've provided these reliable sources, hopefully you won't feel the need to further harangue every single commentator at this AFD. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:24, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Still no concrete evidence that the heat has killed all those people. The article has the interesting comment "did not cause a rise above the city's overall daily death average." Nor that the temperatures are actually records. You're talking to an old weather nerd here, quite used to seeing sensationalist reporting of seemingly dramatic events, only to see just as dramatic report of next summer's hot weather. We can't just throw around words like "deaths" and "records" without being sure. And why haven't you used those sources to improve the article, rather than attacking me here? HiLo48 (talk) 01:54, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not attacking you, I'm providing reliable sources for your objections. If there is some WP:MINIUMUMPARTICIPATION for AFD that I'm missing, please let me know. --LaserLegs (talk) 02:17, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to 2018 North American heat wave. The amount of death with the record temperatures pass WP:GNG. Deletion is not the solution to article cleanup. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Where are the record temps? HiLo48 (talk) 01:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into 2018 North American heat wave. 33 deaths is definitely not trivia. However, this is part of the wider heat wave and should not have a separate article. -Zanhe (talk) 21:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Has anyone else but me noticed the comment that the number of deaths in some areas is no different from normal? Proper comparisons need to be made before such claims can be made. HiLo48 (talk) 01:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per above reasoning. Definitely not trivia but also not clear why this can't be covered in 2018 North American heat wave. Tillerh11 (talk) 00:59, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not trivia, but not necessarily as dramatic as sensationalist media reports would have it. HiLo48 (talk) 01:55, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - This is a content fork of a subject, 2018 North American heat wave, with questionable notability. Unfortunately, I doubt it will also be deleted because of recentism, but one non-notable page is better than two I suppose.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 05:18, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As a survivor, I can say it was miserable enough to raise a stink about, but not worse than the typical cold snaps in winter. As an outside observer, I can see it was about as mild for most other victims, governments and industries. Personally a great tragedy for the dead and their circles, but such tragedy is routine for the sick, weak and elderly. The overall rate in Montreal didn't increase. Just made news because complaining about the heat is the thing to do while it's hot; now that it's not, many are still dying, but cooler heads prevail on tying them all together. So should we. But if we can't, at least merge. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:38, July 7, 2018 (UTC)
Merge into 2018 North American heat wave. Jmertel23 (talk) 12:41, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. The "Canadian" heat wave is not a separate topic from the "American" one, so there's no need for two separate articles. It's certainly questionable whether the whole thing needs even one article at all, but there's definitely no need for two separate articles. Bearcat (talk) 20:17, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]