Talk:The Cheetah Girls (group)

Ya some haters you have no proof that any of this is true Raven is a cheetah girl cause raven had to do the new season of thats so raven and that why she didnt go on tour but she had to do all the episodes so ya need to get your facts straight and stop posting lies cause ya know ya want to be a cheetah girl so if you do, you need to show some growl power ,Okay. And i know ya aint talking about my girl Chanel cause she is the best so ya need to stop hating on her , I bet she looks WAY better then you !!!

Ok whoever that was was really imature.Jtervin 07:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also I need help making a box for the new ¡When In Spain! Tour dates that I have posted ThanksJtervin 07:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was just wondering who took the Adrienne and Raven thing off and why??Jtervin 07:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone make their when in spain tour its own article

No, because 1)It hasn't started. 2)It wasn't/isn't a big tour. Tcatron565 17:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't someone add Raven to the list? She can't go on tour with the others because of her show That's so Raven, but she is still one of the Cheetah Girls! MaddieGa 22:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Citations

If no one cites these sources in 3 weeks (^{[citation needed]}), they will be taken off along with the thing that needs sourcing. Tcatron565 17:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The illiteracy on this talk page is truly shocking. MelonSmasher 03:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Album Information

Can someone add in the 200-px Album Cover, I wasn't sure how to get it to work.

Thanks!

04:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)Findarto

For What??Jtervin 02:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Added Pages for Singles

I added pages for the new singles because I thought they were nessisary but I did NOT add them for the older singles. If anybody wants to do this, go ahead. I don't think anybody has to though. Also could somebody tell me how to edit the box at the bottom that labels Raven as a former member????? Jtervin 02:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am currently adding pages for all of their singles. Jtervin 19:41, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

TO DO

Add Pages for all singles (Done!!! Yey!)

Add ALL of the albums into that box that The Cheetah Girls have released like The Cheetah Girls (album)

Tell me how to fix the The Cheetah Girls box at the bottom. See Here:

Get a newer photo of The Cheetah Girls to put on this page.

Jtervin 19:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to fix the infobox for their singles and screwed it up...sorry~!~ 69.47.130.72 17:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Band vs Group

Shouldn't this be entitled "Cheetah Girls (Group)" rather than band? They don't play any instruments do they? MelonSmasher 20:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Membership issues regarding the group

This is a continuation of a discussion that started in the discussion area for 'Cheetah Girls 2 (film)'

J:

I saw Deborah's dedication to the trio in her book series. First off, she wrote her first 4 books in 1999, then the next 4 in 2000, then 4 more in 2001, and her 13th in 2002.

Then came a 3-year break, in which production on the first movie had taken place. By then, the first 12 books of the Cheetah Girls series were placed in 3 thick volumes of 4 novels each.

She resumed the series in 2005, and it is in the 14th book that she thanks, if I can remember the exact quote, "my onscreen Cheetahs". She names the 3 who are on tour right now. The 15th and 16th books she finished in 2005 as well. These were not in separate novels; the 13th through 16th novels were part of the 4th big volume of the series.

Two things immediately come to mind: For one, Raven wasn't in the group at that time, and with her first solo campaign in 5 years under way (for the 2004 album This Is My Time), they did not know if she would return. For another, it was not yet known if there would be a sequel. Then again, maybe Deborah and Raven were not on good terms because of her limited commitment (or total lack thereof) at that time. Of course, With Raven's first 2 albums flopping badly (35,000 and 100,000), she really wanted this one to score. It didn't (250,000), despite her appearance in The Princess Diaries 2 at the time.

If there hadn't been a sequel, Raven could have been considered a former member from 2004 onward. The fact that she came back for the movie, and the possibility that she will return for the 3rd movie in 2008, makes her membership (including her absences) dubious. If she should turn in her Cheetah spots for good, or get bounced, then you can consider adding her to the former membership list, with the years 2002-2003 and 2006 next to her name. The same applies if Deborah finally decides it is better to have a fully-committed lead singer (for the real and fictional group) than to have a partially-committed leader. Again, a dangerous move it is to replace the lead singer.

Speaking of which, in that Good Day L.A. interview 12 Sept. with the trio, Sabrina mentioned that she met Kiely in the auditions on 17 Sept. 2002. I find it hard to imagine that they can go from auditions to filming in a single month (or less); but regardless, you might want to consider changing the year from 2003 to 2002 as the year the real group got started, since one can assume that the original quartet went to the recording studio before they got started on shooting the film.

Do you know that they hardly got noticed when the first album hit the racks? Despite grabbing 6.5 million viewers, the soundtrack EP debuted at #193 in late-August. It was not until late-November and early-December that it surged to the top 50. Then their version of the i5 song, "Cinderella", started kicking in at Radio Disney. Too bad it didn't make the Hot 100.

One other note: The fall 2006 tour was extended to 57 dates, ending December 12, last I checked. -CookyMonzta

I know what your saying but I think that we should wait until The Cheetah Girls's next album comes out, we see how it does and THEN decide if we think that raven should be considered part of the group. 65.60.164.62 23:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Let's not forget Raven's own solo album, set for Halloween. If it goes gold, will she think she does not need to be a part of this group anymore, under any circumstances? If it fails, like her first 3 (we will know by Christmas), will she seriously consider that the public is still not ready to accept her as a solo artist, on the same level as they would the original Cheetah quartet, and she decides to rejoin the trio in time for the recording sessions in January?

...But will the trio welcome her back? I doubt it, because they know that they must also prove that they can score a hit without the alpha Cheetah. All of the Cheetahs' top-20 Radio Disney hits since 2003 included Raven, including "Strut", #53 on the Billboard Hot 100. Their best effort without her, "I Won't Say (I'm In Love)", reached #30, the last spot on the Disney chart.

If the situation should arise, where Deborah, the trio, or Disney, decide that they want a fully-committed singer capable of replacing Raven (completely) as the alpha Cheetah, I would suggest, right now, that they consider Fefe Dobson. She was born in 1985, and she is mixed, as is the character Galleria. Fefe was recently dropped from her label (Island Records), just as they were about to release her 2nd album (which was not released in the U.S.). Check Fefe's Wikipedia bio. -CookyMonzta

Requiem for the original quartet: Raven quits

J. Tervin:

The dispute we had in mid-September, over Raven-Symone's dubious membership in the Cheetah Girls, is now ended. The bickering between us was obviously over nothing, because it was understood that Raven was not in the group at the time when the current tour began, but she was still a member, though an inactive member, because she never officially left the group. Because of that, it was pretty much assumed by everyone that she would be back to lead this group, perhaps to another possible gold or platinum album, when production for the third movie and its soundtrack was ready to begin.

That assumption no longer matters now. Go to the Pulse Music Board, and enlarge the Newsweek interview (8 October) appearing in the 141st reply (but hurry, and save it, before it disappears):

http://www.pulsemusic.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=news&action=display&thread=1151274973&page=5

I believe you will agree with me, that Raven can now be classified as a former member (2002-2003, 2006). Period. It is indeed official now. You can erase her status as a movie/soundtrack only member, because we know she sang in the group for those 2 movies and their soundtracks, and it is pretty much a foregone conclusion to many that her participation in the group, and contributions to the group when the movies were made, are the reasons that both soundtrack albums went double-platinum and gold. They are the only gold albums for this group right now, and Raven was in the group for both. But no more for her. She's done.

Notice that I labeled 2002 as the year when this group was created, or more accurately, transformed, from a 100% entirely fictional group in a series of books, to a real group of girls who sing, portraying a fictional group. In the Good Day L.A. interview that took place on 12 September (rewind the video and take another look at it), Sabrina Bryan noted that in 5 days (that is, 17 Sept.) it would be 4 years since she met Kiely Williams in the audition for this group.

In which case, the group was assembled and finalized in September, 2002. This is the actual beginning of this group, the real group, unlike what Adrienne Bailón explained in that same interview (unless you are referring to the contract that Hollywood Records gave them in 2005, separate from Raven's 2003 contract, which made them a separate entity). Raven was almost certainly hand-picked, by Deborah Gregory herself and/or other members of the Disney production crew. I would bet the kitchen sink on that, and I would also bet that she was selected well before the auditions for the remaining 4 members (including the twins), maybe even as early as mid-August, 2002, because in my opinion they almost certainly wanted a seasoned actress who could sing well and immediately sell this group to its viewers and even the consumers. With Raven already a Disney member, it was a no-brainer.

Of course, they couldn't find twins to play Aquanette and Anginette; so, when they selected Kiely, they rewrote the story of the first movie to make Aqua an only child, although it is never mentioned in either of the 2 movies. In my opinion, they could have had anyone play Angie, and they could still have that for the third movie. The same way they found Sabrina to play Dorinda, who is biracial in the books, they could have rewritten identical twins Aqua and Angie as fraternal twins for the movies.

Whether they bring back the twin sister for the 3rd movie remains to be seen. But it is the status of the fictional group's most important character, Galleria Garibaldi, that will determine the status of the real group. I said this before, and I wil say it again: I don't think the remaining trio can sell this group the way Raven sold it; not even Adrienne, who by nature of being the lead singer of 3LW will, for the moment, be the leader of this group; which at this point barely differs from 3LW, which is a problem for some who wonder whether 3LW and the Cheetahs are one and the same, despite the difference between the third members, Jessica Benson (3LW) and Sabrina Bryan (Cheetahs).

That, I believe, is primarily the reason why the Cheetahs' Christmas album failed (131,000). Without Raven to set them completely apart from 3LW, many probably considered them a continuation of 3LW, whose 2002 album A Girl Can Mack sold perhaps 170,000, a far cry from the 1.3 million of their 2000 debut, due in part to the acrimony in 2002 that led to Naturi Naughton's departure or dismissal.

With Raven out of the group for good, they are back to being what I call 3LW Redux. It is hard to tell whether the concert sellouts and extensions (now 80 dates, to conclude sometime in January, 2007) are due to the fact that, either the fans are supporting the franchise as a whole, or they're giving Raven the finger for skipping out on the group once again, like she did during their 2005 Christmas campaign.

Regardless, though they were a smash during that holiday tour, I believe that these same fans, who have packed the arenas nationwide this fall to see Adrienne, Sabrina and Kiely, and ask where Raven is (she really should give her fans a swan song and perform with them, even if it's only one concert date, maybe the last one), will not pack the record shops when the trio's next album arrives (their 4th as group members, their 2nd as a trio, counting the Christmas album, and the 7th for the 2 girls of 3LW). The success they had during the 2005 holiday season should have yielded well over 300,000 copies, despite the fact that it had been 2 years since they released an album, one that included Raven.

It didn't even sell half that many. That is why I believe Raven holds sway over the destiny of both the real group and the fictional group, and perhaps even the franchise itself. If Disney commences production on the third movie, having written Galleria out of the story, they are likely to lose quite a considerably large percentage of the group's fans. I wonder if, without Raven, the movie will be relegated back to television, because like I said before, I don't think anyone in the trio can sell this group the way Raven did. Raven played the leader of the (fictional) group, and was the leader of the (real) group!

Which is why they must find a replacement, one who can break the sway that Raven holds, one who has the skills and the will to sell this group as well as Raven did, if not better. Whoever is that replacement will be the alpha Cheetah Girl and will also get to play Galleria in the 3rd movie; and likewise, whoever is chosen to play Galleria will be the real group's new leader.

Light-skinned black or biracial (to conform with Deborah's character in the books and the first movie), born between 1984 and 1986, and with a good, strong voice (Raven's voice was easily the strongest of the 4), my first pick (once again) to replace Raven, make this trio a quartet again, and assume the fictional role of Galleria in the next movie, is Felicia Lynn Dobson.

This girl writes her own songs, plays guitar and plays keyboard and piano. She would bring an eclecticism to this group that I would say that even the group's creator would not have imagined. What she brings could also attract many more people outside of the group's longtime 7-to-14 fan-base.

Let us assume Fefe says yes (the odds are long against, but trust me, she may be the best choice out there right now), and joins the Cheetah Girls. Let her put her guitar or keyboard skills on display, live on stage or in the next film and/or album. That will almost single-handedly increase the group's small 15-to-29 fan-base. That alone will really separate this group from the current pantheon of bubblegum pop girl groups, without turning them into vixens on the level of the Pussycat Dolls (with Fefe in the Cheetahs, far from it).

I imagine that the songs she writes for this group (if they let her, and they'd better) will have more creativity than what the group's perennial writers have given them. I'd love to see what hip-hop soul veterans Adrienne and Kiely could do with a song that borders on something you'd find in the Lenny Kravitz or Joan Armatrading catalog (mixed with just a little pop to keep the mainstream happy), or even in the catalog of today's alt-rock, pseudo-pop or neo-soul artists, because that is what Fefe will bring to the Cheetah Girls; namely, unprecedented unpredictability, which I believe sells.

Once more, if Fefe were in this group right now, the trio would not be relegated to making remakes for their next album, their first non-Christmas, non-soundtrack album. Cyndi Lauper's "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun"? Nat King Cole's "Route 66"? Or that third song they've been singing on the tour? That is no way to sell a group trying to break out of the Disney mold and attract a mainstream beyond that mold, even while still being promoted by Disney.

Imagine if the Monkees were relegated to singing songs that have been already sung. They never would have ranked as the number 1 pop group in 1967. That is not saying whether the Cheetahs have that potential or not, but outside of the soundtracks, if I'm correct, every song the trio (that is, without Raven) has sung, since 2004, has been a remake, and except for a single week in the Radio Disney Top 30 ("I Won't Say (I'm In Love)", #30 in 2004 or 2005), none of the trio's songs have ever made that chart. Every Cheetah Girls track that made this chart included Raven.

Ironically, their most popular song was also a remake, "Cinderella" (recorded by i5 in 2000 and Play in 2002), and even more ironically, Raven was in the group at the time! They were lucky that far fewer people knew about this song than what the trio may be set to record for their 2007 album.

If Fefe were to come in before the 2007 studio album sessions were over, I'd bet good money they'd scrap all the remakes, and let Fefe (or any new writers) write new material to take the place of the remakes, even if the album were to have only 8 or 9 songs on it, just to get the new girl's feet wet as a Cheetah Girl, and give the fans a warmup for what is to come in the third movie.

Any way you look at it, I believe that the creativity that Fefe brings, if she accepts (and that's a big if), will certainly keep this group a platinum group, if not drive them toward double-platinum or unexpectedly beyond. She could surely use it, having been dumped by her label, Island Records, before her second album (many times delayed) was to be released.

Of course, if Fefe is the one, the franchise will have to trash the idea of building this group around her in the very same way they built the group around Raven in 2002.

As for Raven, we already know; out of her own mouth she has made it official: She is no longer a Cheetah Girl, period; not even an inactive or movie/soundtrack member. She has turned in her Cheetah spots. I think she's making a big mistake, because those two soundtracks are her only gold albums of her entire 13-year singing career, the first soundtrack of which went double-platinum. Her previous 3 solo albums are all flops, her best being her 3rd, barely halfway toward gold.

Worse yet, having jumped ship from Disney-owned Hollywood to an ever-obscure TMG or Turnip Records, her chances of going gold on her 4th solo attempt, any chance at all, even with producers like Missy Elliott, Timbaland and the Neptunes (all of whom I suspect have been deceived, because I believe they probably thought their work would be on a major label, considering that we didn't find out about the label switch until mid-October), may have gone out the window, if I should be correct that this new record company doesn't have the kind of budget it would need to ship 500,000 copies on day one, if not 500,000 copies overall.

I hope there is absolutely nothing in the original Cheetah Girls contracts they signed in 2002, that says Raven cannot be replaced, even if she quits outright. She said she's too busy for the 3rd movie; therefore, she's done. End of story. Deborah's character, Galleria, need not go down with the girl who played her. Give that character to someone else, someone more willing, and someone who will commit to every appearance or on-stage performance as a member of the real group, because never have I heard of a musical group in existence with a part-time member, which is what Raven basically was.

Angus and Malcolm Young took the chance of not letting AC/DC slip into oblivion in 1980, after Bon Scott's death, and instead hired Brian Johnson to become the new lead singer, with Back In Black selling 20 million. I think Deborah and Disney should do the same, while this group has a good 4 or 5 years of gold- and platinum-selling potential left in them...

...With one exception: The girls need to ditch the voice-over mechanism that got Ashlee Simpson in trouble on Saturday Night Live. They need to sing live, through and through. There has been noise about the trio lip-synching to backing tracks during the tour. Raven always liked to sing live, and demonstrated that, in probably one of her very few (and maybe her very last) appearances with the group, on the stage of ABC's Good Morning America on 23 August. This group should do the same, especially once Raven's replacement has been chosen.

When I saw what those 4 girls did in the first and second films, I believed that they had the potential to pick up where TLC left off; music with a message, and gold and platinum sales without going to the extremes demonstrated by the current crop of gold- and platinum-selling girl groups or even female solo artists. In some aspects, they reminded me of TLC.

But this group has now apparently lost its leading member, and quite likely for good. They must replace Raven with someone who can fill her shoes and perhaps go a step further. I've presented my choice. I would imagine there are others who are as capable, and fit the profile of the lead character for the 3rd movie.

Speaking of which, the fictional movie story is not yet finished. The 2nd movie ended with the fictional group's junior year completed. Now they must have the group graduate from high school, get their biggest break yet, and score a hit record to conclude the saga. They absolutely dare not proceed without its main character (Galleria); and for that, they must find someone to take Raven's place in the real group and as the lead character.

As for the other members, Adrienne and Kiely really should be commended for supporting this group and the franchise that Deborah Gregory created in 1999, even at the great expense of their own group. They could have gone back to the studio as members of 3LW, and tweaked their own album (delayed more than 3 years now) and spent time promoting that album.

They didn't. They agreed to tour as Cheetah Girls, and when the demand increased the number of dates from the original 35 to 80, they agreed to every venue. In pure essence, they saved this group, even as the absence of its leading member, no less, threatened to drag them down.

Unfortunately, the Cheetahs will not be able to save themselves in the studio, from what looks to be a flop on the horizon. They have managed to sell the group on stage, but like their Christmas flop, they will not be able to do the same in the studio or on the record racks. That is where the replacement comes in, to give this group the boost it needs, lest they lose the ability to sell themselves on tour in the future, if they remain a trio.

So, will Raven have any second thoughts, between now and the beginning of production for the 3rd movie, and decide to return, and resurrect her place as the group’s leading member, despite being only a movie/soundtrack member, one who has obviously succeeded in bringing gold and platinum sales to this group? Considering how bluntly her response appeared, to the 9-year-old girl’s question of her participation in Cheetah Girls 3, I wouldn’t bet on it at all.

So, my top choice for her replacement, at this moment (2 November 2006), is Fefe Dobson. Who is yours?

-CookyMonzta

Vincit omnia veritas

I think we need to stop before we start saying things like that. I have heard from many that Raven will join them for a concert on Dec. 3rd. The link is at TALK: Cheetah Girls 2172.165.165.192 04:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just saw the Shreveport news article regarding the concert on Dec. 3. Of course they will mention Raven along with the other 3 girls, and that is because she was part of the original group. But do they know that she has never toured with the group? They didn't exactly mention whether she will join them this time. All they say is "The singers include..." We know the singers of the group. If they had said "Scheduled to appear...", or "Scheduled to perform...", I probably would have been more convinced. I want to know whether Raven herself has confirmed whether she will indeed join them or not. -CookyMonzta (9 Nov. 2006)

Slumber Party Girls vs. Cheetah Girls

I read in a Disney vs. Nickelodeon article that Nickelodeon/CBS is using the Slumber Party Girls to compete with the Cheetah Girls to tap into their audience. What do ya'll think. I'll find the source. The Slumber Party Girls are supposedly on CBS' "Secret Saturday Morning Slumber Party".72.94.46.117 20:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]