Talk:Luka Dončić

Bio

Someone from Slovenia keeps deleting the fact that Luka Doncic is of Serbian origin. I have supported it with 4 references, so stop him from deceiving people. Luka is a Serb, playing for Slovenia, be happy with it and live with it. Deception will not lead you anywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Serbov1 (talk • contribs) 07:58, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Dončićevi baba i deda po ocu su sa Kosova, došli su u Sloveniju na rad gde se rodio njegov otac Saša. U karijeri je igrao za gotovo sve vodeće slovenačke klubove, jednu sezonu proveo je u Slogi iz Kraljeva, pokušao u Crvenoj zvezdi početkom 90-tih godina ali se vratio u Sloveniju gde je dugo igrao kao stranac uporkos činjenici da je rodjen u ovoj zemlji. Paternal grandparents of Luka Doncic are Serbs who came to Slovenia from Kosovo, where his father Saša was born. He was considered a foreigner in Slovenia for a long time, despite of being born in that country. So, obviously, his father is Serbian born in Slovenia! As a result- Luka too is of Serbian origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Serbov1 (talk • contribs) 17:24, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Exactly, his grandparents from his father's side come from Serbia, as mentioned in the personal life section. And this is enough. On the other hand, there are people, where it makes sense to mention other countries in the first sentence, take for example Jakov Fak, where it is highly relevant that he is a Croatian-born Slovenian sportsperson. I hope that helps. --Tone 17:38, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

I rearranged his "Personal life" section in what I believe is appropriate and projects a Neutral point of view, with everything being sourced and referenced (if someone disagrees then post your argument below): Dončić was born in Ljubljana, Slovenia, to Saša Dončić, a former professional basketball player and Slovenian international and Mirjam Poterbin, a hairdresser, former model and dancer, and owner of a prestigious beauty salon in Ljubljana's inner circle. He is of Serbian and Slovenian descent. His father's side of the family hails from the village of Biča, near Klina. Dončić's parents filed for divorce in 2008, with custody and legal guardianship being granted to his mother. His godfather is former NBA player Rasho Nesterović. Dončić is a fan of Red Star Belgrade basketball club. Regards, Ratipok (talk) 23:08, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a place for facts not feelings. All information should be presented factually and accurately and should not serve the agenda of the individual. Sources should be taken into account to form a true statement of luka's nationality. It is clear after research that Luka is not only of Serbian ethnicity but he speaks the language. He is close with the country and it is a well known fact the he is a Slovenian Serb. His father is undoubtedly also a Slovenian Serb. It should be changed the the appropriate state it was before where it said he was Slovenian and Serbian. Matejam14 (talk) 12:22, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

@Matejam14: As you said, "Wikipedia is a place for facts not feelings". And what you wrote afterwards is all about the feelings. :) IndexAccount (talk) 17:10, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Nationality is defined by the right to hold citizenship, thus, by definition, luka's nationality is Serbian as he was eligible to play for the Serbian national team. There is no negative to showing that he is Serbian. If there is for you then that should not get in the way of what is accurate. Returning his bio to its original state would be more accurate. Many before me have provided a lot more evidence as well — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matejam14 (talk • contribs) 23:35, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Born in Slovenia, plays for the Slovenian national team = Slovenian is correct. Kante4 (talk) 15:30, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Eurobasket

Please add this sentence to the section Slovenian National Team: In 2017, he helped Slovenia win the title at the European Championships. Or open it for editing.

Listed Height

We have four different sources (ACB, EuroBasket, EuroLeague and Real Madrid) listing four different heights for Dončić. Besides, he is 19, he may well be still growing a bit. So just let it go, stop editing his height in the infobox. We'll soon have a fifth source (NBA), probably listing something different.--Gorpik (talk) 08:12, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

He's 6-8 but for some reason NBA lists him at 6-6, which is what his height was listed at in Europe at age 16. NBA has some very strange ways of listing heights for players from Europe. They often don't measure European players, then take their listed height from age 16, not their current height. Really odd, but they do it all the time. The 6-6 listing is obviously absolutely ridiculous though.Bluesangrel (talk) 02:19, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Why 6'8"? Most sources from last year list him at 6'7" (2.01m, if you prefer), including his previous club. Being 19, he may have grown a bit during the last year, as I said before; but I have seen no reliable sources listing him as 6'8".--Gorpik (talk) 06:47, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

The infobox displays "Listed height", so it's pretty straight-forward to use what his current club lists, 6'6".[1] This is the NBA project's practice per WP:NBAHEIGHT. It would be better to just expand on his height at Luka Dončić#Player profile. This Star-Telegram article says he's usually listed at 6'7", but also mentions 6'8" and 6'9". Height in sports#Basketball mentions many reasons why listed NBA heights vary.—Bagumba (talk) 10:30, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

The fact that he has so many different heights out there tells me that what goes in the "listed height" field should be his "listed height" with his current team, the Mavericks. His profile may be updated when the season starts, often some new measurements for the season come out around training camp. Rikster2 (talk) 12:02, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

It's the same problem with Georgios Papagiannis, he was listed at 7-2 in Europe, and Greek federation even said they measured him at 7-2 1/4 barefoot, yet in NBA he was listed at 7-1, his height from high school. Never did they update it, and in fact listed him at 7-2 in summer league, but still 7-1 on the team page and nba.com page. He signed back in Europe, and immediately he is listed by his team at 7-2...yet still listed at "7-1 in shoes" by NBA. There are other such examples for European players, that they list some strange height like 2 inches shorter than the actual height. It's very strange and odd. Sometimes they do like With Giannis Antetokounmpo - he was measured at over 6-10 in Greece by his team, then at 6-11 by Greek federation after that...NBA came along and claimed he was 6-9 months after that but "still growing". Then he plays in Greece over the summer, listed at 6-10 barefoot...NBA still claims he was 6-9 "but growing", and then suddenly the next season he was listed at 6-11 in shoes by NBA. It's like some kind of strange marketing gimmick or something.Bluesangrel (talk) 03:56, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Strange indeed. Since it's difficult to determine which height is "right", it's consistent to use what their current team lists. If it's a big enough topic, explain it more in prose.—Bagumba (talk) 04:16, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Both Mavs website and NBA website list him at 6-7, so it should state that and I changed it to that on the article. However, in a media article it was stated the Mavs measured him at 6-8 at the start of their training camp. So again the NBA listings make no sense. Furthering the point about Papagiannis, EuroLeague stated he was measured at 7-3 and officially lists his height at 7-3, again what Greek federation had said 2 years ago, yet NBA still listed him at 7-1.Bluesangrel (talk) 20:34, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Current Club

Dončić has been drafted and his NBA rights belong to Dallas Mavericks. He has shown an inclination to play for them. That's OK. But he has not yet signed a contract, so his current club is still Real Madrid. There are tons of drafted players who did not end up playing for the club that held their NBA rights. So, please, stop trying to update his current club until he signs a contract with the Mavs.--Gorpik (talk) 12:02, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Luka Dončić/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kosack (talk · contribs) 19:06, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

I'll take this one, will post review in the next day or so. Kosack (talk) 19:06, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Initial review

Infobox

• Link Real Madrid in the caption.
• I'm not a basketball editor so this is more of a query, should the Atlanta Hawks be listed under his career history as he was selected by the team before being traded? Or would he not have signed a contract with them? What's the normal procedure with this type of situation, if there is one?
  • Taking this over for User:Toiletpaper101 upon request. Generally, the Hawks should not be listed under career history because he never played for them. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 23:32, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Lead

• "he is considered one of the best international prospects of his generation.", I'm always wary about statements like this. I think this could do with at least a couple of strong sources to support it.
  • Are three sources enough? ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 23:32, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Link Liga ACB and EuroLeague.

Early life

• Unlink Slovenia, per WP:OVERLINK no real significant relevance to the subject.
• What makes his mother's salon prestigious? Unless there's a major reason why I think this is unnecessary WP:PUFFERY.
• What is "Ljubljana's inner circle"?
• As Doncic is Slovenian, the article should use football rather than soccer.

Youth career

• "When Dončić was an eight-year-old", change to "When Dončić was eight".
• "under head coach Jernej Smolnikar", is Smolnikar notable? This is a pretty long sentence as it is and if he has no page to link to and isn't notable then I don't think it's adding anything to the page.
• "Dončić often requested his parents to practice", I think this could do with rewording it's sounding a bit odd and seems like he was practicing with his parents.
• As Dončić is European, shouldn't his article be using honour rather than honor?
• Unlink Real Madrid in the third paragraph, already linked in the paragraph above.
• Unlink soccer in the third paragraph, already linked previously, and again change to football.
• Unlink Spanish, per WP:OVERLINK.

Early years

• Last sentence of the first paragraph is unsourced.
• "being the youngest player of the league", should that be in the league?
• "Making him the eleventh-youngest player to make their debut in the EuroLeague since the 2000–01 season.", this sentence would need to be linked to the previous in its current form. If it's a standalone sentence, perhaps "His appearance made him..."?
• I would also think about rewording the sentence to "eleventh-youngest debutant..." to try and cut the size of that link.
• Use Performance Rating Index (PIR) for the first usage.

2016-17 season

• "in the round 11" > in round 11.
• Unlink PIR, linked in previous paragraph.
• "in the win of Real Madrid against Montakit Fuenlabrada, by a score of 92–76", this sentence is overcomplicated somewhat. "In Real Madrid's 92-76 victory against Montakit Fuenlabrada" perhaps?
• "In Round 13", does Round need the capital letter here?

2017-18 season

• "During the month of October" > During October.
• Unlink EuroLeague MVP of the Round, already linked previously.
• Unlink PIR, already linked previously.
• "Dončić recorded a career-high 33 points, in Real Madrid's EuroLeague game against Olympiacos Piraeus, with Real Madrid losing 92–83 in overtime, that night", again a bit overcomplicated. "In Real Madrid's 92-84 EuroLeague defeat against Olympiacos Piraeus" perhaps? Also EuroLeague is linked previously so doesn't need it here.
• "Spanish Liga ACB", it's already been mentioned that Liga ACB is Spanish previously so there's no need to repeat it here.
• Halfway through this section the date format used in the rest of the article is reversed, e.g. March 30 becomes 30 March. Maintain one style for consistency.
• Unlink Liga ACB in the second paragraph, linked previously in the article.
• "Dončić part ways with Real Madrid." > parted.

Senior national team

• Last sentence of the first paragraph is unsourced.

Trophies and awards

• This section is largely unsourced.

References

• Ref 2 needs a publisher.
• Ref 3 needs an author.
• Some refs have authors with first then last names others have the reverse, stick to one style for consistency.
• Same with date formats, some use for e.g. 25 January and others January 25. Stick to a consistent formatting for refs throughout the article.
  • I think I fixed all of these. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 23:52, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Refs 13 and 14 are just links.
• Refs 20 and 29 need author, date and accessdate.
• Ref 25 needs an author and accessdate.
• Got these. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 00:00, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Refs 27 and 28 need a date and accessdate.
• Don't use all capitals even if the ref title does, per WP:ALLCAPS.
  • I think I got this, am I missing anything? ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 00:00, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• I've reviewed the first thirty refs from the article in the notes above and I can see that the issues above are persistent throughout the rest. I would say that you need to go through all of the refs and ensure that they are correctly and consistently formatted with authors, dates (where available) and accessdates. Also ensure to follow WP:ALLCAPS in regard to not using all capitals in refs.

That's my initial review, placed on hold for seven days. Kosack (talk) 19:35, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• • I think all of your concerns have been addressed, either by me or Toiletpaper101. It is possible that I missed one or two. Please let me know. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 00:10, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Nice work, that was remarkably quick. I'll go through this again as soon as I can. Kosack (talk) 05:59, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Excellent work, Kosack, EDDY and Toiletpaper101. If I may add, the Trophies and Awards section lists a lot of very minor awards for his youth years (MVP in unofficial tournaments, for instance). These are unreferenced and I think it would be very difficult to find reliable sources since, as I said, they are very minor. I think we should remove those.--Gorpik (talk) 06:44, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Trophies and Awards section is not needed, as all notable awards or titles have been listed in the infobox already. I have deleted it, so the problem should be taken care of. Runningibis (talk) 15:55, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

@Editorofthewiki: @Toiletpaper101: as the nominator and substantial contributors, do you have any objections to Runningibis's honour removal? Kosack (talk) 16:02, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

I have no objections myself. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 16:22, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

@Editorofthewiki: I'm happy that all of the above issues have been rectified. I've performed a minor copyedit but nothing really of note was required. I believe this now meets the required GA criteria, promoting. Nice work. Kosack (talk) 19:00, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Awards

There was no reason to remove all the awards, especially giving the reason they all appeared in the article, because they do not actually all appear in the article. Also, to list everything only in the infobox can create an enormously long list, considering he's 19 and already has more awards than most players retire with.Bluesangrel (talk) 03:49, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, for a start, the section was completely unreferenced which would not have passed a GA review so an editor made the decision to remove the section which was agreed upon by the editor who had taken over the review. Plus, are youth awards even notable? Are we really listing awards at under-13 level? Kosack (talk) 04:47, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Not sure if the WP:WEIGHT is comparable to high school in the US, but LeBron_James#Awards_and_honors lists some. I'd at least want them to be mentioned by an independent, reliable source in something other than a stats listing.—Bagumba (talk) 05:04, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Basketball really isn't my area of expertise, so in terms of standard layouts, I'm open to any consensus that can be reached. Football articles, which I mainly deal with, generally avoid the inclusion of youth awards however in American sports I'm aware that college and such is considered quite notable. However, I would say that the majority of LeBron's have actual articles to link to which would signify the notability of those awards where as none of the ones here actually do. Also the youngest I can see of LeBron's would appear to be at 16 years of age? The majority would seem to be older than that too. Kosack (talk) 05:54, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I won't get into US specifics here, as it's irrelevant to Doncic. My point is simply that there is not necessarily an age cutoff on awards. However, based on the above points that you and I have raised, the WP:ONUS is on editors to gain consensus to include. We don't just include things because they are true.—Bagumba (talk) 13:50, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, I agree with you completely. Assuming they can all be sourced, which was the rationale given for deletion in the first place, it comes down largely to notability of the awards which is quite questionable at those age levels. Kosack (talk) 14:22, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Details

The article is to detailed. You don't need to write about every game. Way too much. Kante4 (talk) 05:24, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

@Kante4: Only his most notable games of the season are included, not every one. You can remove any details that you think aren't necessary. Runningibis (talk) 20:22, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Comparing Luka to european players that have nothing in common with him

I get the fact that most people can't get beyond the fact that Luka is european and white, but at least have better sourcing than articles that basically read, oh... slavic european name, he must be the reincarnation of slavic european players, all of them! Despite previous players playing in different positions and having different play styles. SWAGnificient (talk) 10:42, 4 November 2018 (UTC)