Talk:WAVES

Unknown

are you soure WAVE is an acronym and not a backronym¡? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.61.85 (talk) 01:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Is this correct?

I moved the following paragraph here because I could not verify it. Sources I've seen indicate that the WAVES were disbanded after WWII:

The WAVES continued to serve through the Vietnam War. WAVES officer candidates were trained for 16 weeks at the Newport, Rhode Island Naval Base. Enlisted WAVES were trained at Bainbridge, Maryland. During the 1970's consideration was given to allowing WAVES to serve aboard ships. Ultimately, LT Valerie Zeller, USNR, was assigned to two weeks reserve duty aboard the USS Sanctuary in 1975. A few years later, the WAVES were disbanded and women were allowed to serve on ships and be assigned to all Navy specialties.

ike9898 03:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

• • The WAVES were NOT disbanded at the end of World War I. Most of them were discharged, but a small number of dedicated officers and enlisted women under the leadership of Captain Joy Bright Hancock were laying plans for a campaign to have the WAVES made a permanent part of the Regular Navy. Their hard work paid off in 1948, when the women's components of all the armed forces were made permanent.

See Hancock, Capt. Joy Bright, Lady in the Navy US Naval Institute Press.

204.27.190.53 22:25, 26 April 2007 (UTC)RogerInPDX

I have re-written some of the opening paragraphs explaining the differences between the WAAC, WAC, and WAVES. I realize this article is not about the WAAC or the WAC, but it incorrectly stated that the WAC came into existence about two months before the WAVES. In fact it was the WAAC (Women's AUXILIARY Army Corps). Also, it's not really possible to discuss the beginning of any of the women's services without some mention of the others.

I am also wondering whether the famous WAVE uniform designed by Mainbocher should be mentioned. This article is not about fashion, but in the beginning proper uniforms were a major consideration. It also demonstrates how the Navy took a more organized approach to these issues than the Army did, and why the WAVE uniform was somewhat more fashionable than the uniform of the WAAC/WAC. RogerInPDX (talk) 06:31, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Mildred Fover???

The article stated that the first Director of the WAVES was Mildred H. Fover. I have no idea where that came from, but I have corrected the mistake by changing the name to Mildred McAfee, who was in fact first Director of the WAVES, as is mentioned further along in the article. RogerInPDX (talk) 05:27, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I only wish I could substantiate my dim memory that Grace Hopper, late in her career, was in the habit of calling herself "The last WAVE".

I heard that from computer old-timers also, but have no documentation for it. Seems a typical remark for her, as she was the last WAVE still serving (50 years later).

Also, I believe she reached the highest rank (Rear Admiral) of any woman who served in the original 5 years of the WAVES. Is that correct? Might it be worth noting in this article that a WAVE reached this high rank? T bonham (talk) 03:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

White uniform

Have I correctly identified this uniform? Jim.henderson (talk) 11:42, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Apparently yes, being a good match for File:Waves recruiting poster.jpg which is a better illustration anyway. Jim.henderson (talk) 21:51, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

PURSE

It appears to be the correct dress white uniform for an enlisted WAVE during World War II. The one thing wrong is the color of the purse, which I believe should have been white, though I believe this rule was later relaxed and I've also heard of a white cover that could be put on the standard black purse.

My source is the letters my late mother wrote home during her service with the WAVES in World War II in which she discussed buying a dress white uniform from another WAVE, but she was apparently not able to acquire the white purse before the war ended.

RogerInPDX (talk) 08:33, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

US Naval Air Station, Seattle Wash. Sand Point Dispensary Dental Clinic

Thank you. I have made a note in the description in Commons:File:WAVE uniform WWII N-Y HS jeh.jpg and would appreciate any corrections. Jim.henderson (talk) 15:33, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Article improvement

The article lists an abundance of reference sources (under numerous headings), yet very little of the WAVES story has found its way into the article itself. Should anyone be watching this page, I plan to begin expanding the article with the expectation of upgrading its Start-class rating.

First, though, lets turn to the lead, which incorrectly states, ‘‘their official name was the U.S. Naval Reserve (Women's Reserve), but the nickname as the WAVES stuck.’’ Actually, the official name was Women Accepted for Voluntary Emergency Service. Elisabeth Raynard, attached to the U.S. Navy from Barnard College, constructed the name. In explaining how she came up with the nautical name, Reynard said: “I realized that there were two letters which had to be in it: W for women and V for volunteer, because the Navy wants to make it clear that this is a voluntary service and not a drafted service. So I played with those two letters and the idea of the sea and finally came up with Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service – WAVES”. (See Bacronym) Source: Lady in the Navy, Joy Hancock Pendright (talk) 23:27, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:WAVES/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hawkeye7 (talk · contribs) 00:12, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

Pretty good. I have a little of small changes and suggestions

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without spelling and grammar errors:

   See below

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

   See below

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Cites reliable sources, where necessary:

   C. No original research:

   D. No copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

   Could be better. Some parts are still a bit rah-rah

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Lead

• "Lieutenant Commander" should be lower-case
  •  Done - Pendright (talk) 00:40, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• "Fleet Admiral Ernest King, and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz all commended the WAVES for their contributions to the war effort." Wording is right but links are wrong. Should read: "Fleet Admiral Ernest King and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz"
  •  Done - Pendright (talk) 00:40, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

History

• I was expecting something about the Women in the Navy during WWI
  • With authorization from the Secretary of the Navy, the Navy Department, in 1917, enrolled women in the Naval Coast Defense Reserve in the ratings of yeoman and electricians (radio), or in such other ratings as the Commandants considered essential to the District organization. Source: Lady in the Navy, Joy Bright Hancock, pages 22 & 23. Right or wrong, I took the position that the WAVES was a separate and distinct organization regarding the article.

    Sure. All I meant was a passing mention eg "to propose legislation, authorizing women to serve in the Navy, as it had done during World War I" Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

   Done - I finally got your drift, thanks! Pendright (talk) 00:40, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

• "The word auxiliary meant" quote "auxiliary" here
  • Meant was my word, the source used suggests so it’s now changed to read: As the word auxiliary suggests, women would serve not in the Army, but with it." As such, women were deprived of full military status and denied the benefits of their male counterparts. - Pendright (talk) 01:05, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• Link Bureau of Aeronautics, Bureau of Naval Personnel, Navy Department, Secretary of the Navy, Margaret Chung, US Marine Corps, US Naval Reserve, Sweet Briar College, Radcliffe College, University of North Carolina, University of Michigan,University of Pennsylvania, Duke University, Thomas Sovereign Gates, Wellesley College, Eleanor Roosevelt, SPARS, Yeoman (F), seersucker, Northampton, Massachusetts, Cedar Falls, Iowa, Hunter College, the Bronx. Oxford, Ohio, Harvard Mark I, parachute rigger, Yeoman (United States Navy), Army Commendation Ribbon
  •  Done -Pendright (talk) 02:14, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• "Admiral Chester W.Nimitz" -> "Rear Admiral Chester W. Nimitz" (and note the space between the stop and the N)
  •  Done - Pendright (talk) 20:15, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• "In her book, Lady in the Navy," -> " In her book, Lady in the Navy,"
  •  Done -Pendright (talk) 20:38, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• "In Crossed Currents, the" -> "In Crossed Currents, the"
  •  Done - Pendright (talk) 20:38, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• "who did not favor the WACC concept" -> "who did not favor the WAAC concept"
  •  Done - fixed by Hawkeye, thanks! Pendright (talk) 19:54, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
• "(Less than a year later, 1 July 1043, congress refashioned the Women's Army Auxiliary Corps (WAAC) into the Women's Army Corps (WAC), providing its members with similar military status as the WAVES.)" 1043 -> 1943, and remove the outer parentheses
  •  Done - fixed by Hawkeye, thanks! Pendright (talk) 19:54, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
• "She was commissioned a Lieutenant Commander on 3 August 1942" "Lieutenant Commander" should be lower-case (and linked)
  •  Done - Pendright (talk) 21:17, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• " In More Than A Uniform" -> " In More Than a Uniform" (note lower case A)
  •  Done - Pendright (talk) 22:44, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• "theWAVES" -> "the WAVES"
  •  Done - Pendright (talk) 00:42, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
• "Little or no attempt was made to recruit African-American or other women minorities until October 1944, when President Roosevelt approved of accepting African-American women into the women's reserve. But, he was under pressure to do so by African-American organizations." -> "Little or no attempt was made to recruit African-American or other minorities until October 1944, when President Roosevelt approved accepting African-American women into the women's reserve, under pressure to do so by African-American organizations."
  •  Done - Pendright (talk) 23:10, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• "campses" -> "campuses"
  •  Done - fixed by Hawkeye, thanks! Pendright (talk) 06:00, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
• "at which tie" -> "at which they"
  •  Done - fixed by Hawkeye, thanks! Pendright (talk) 06:00, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
• "Cpt." -> "Captain"
  •  Done - fixed by Hawkeye, thanks! Pendright (talk) 06:00, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
• "Cmdr" -> "Commander"
  •  Done - fixed by Hawkeye, thanks! Pendright (talk) 06:00, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Two more points:

• I am willing to take your word for it that the WAVES were disbanded in 1948, but I know that the name continued in use. Note, for example, in the Women in the United States Navy article it says: "Lieutenant Charlene I. Suneson became the first line WAVES officer to be ordered to shipboard duty". Consider adding something to clear this up.

  I have corrected the remaining typos, so this remains the only outstanding issue. Basically, our sources, including (oddly) this article, maintain that the WAVES remained until 1978. Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

  On 30 July 1948, the Women's Armed Services Integration Act (Public Law 625) was signed into law, allowing women to serve in the regular Navy. The wartime assumptions that prohibited women from duty in any unit designated as having a combat mission carried over with the 1948 Act, which effectively incorporated women into service organizations; legally keeping them from being integrated into the heart of the military and naval professions for more than a quarter of a century. Even though the WAVES no longer existed, the obsolete acronym continued in popular and official usage until the 1970s.

• There's a bit more to the desegregation issue, which I think gives credit in the wrong places. From Integration of the Armed Forces, p. 87:

  Convinced that the step was just and inevitable, the unit also agreed that the WAVES should be integrated. Forrestal approved, and on 28 July 1944 he recommended to the President that Negroes be trained in the WAVES on an integrated basis and assigned wherever needed within the continental limits of the United States, preferably to stations where there are already Negro men. He concluded by reiterating a Special Programs Unit warning: "I consider it advisable to start obtaining Negro WAVES before we are forced co take them."
  
  To avoid the shoals of racial controversy in the midst of an election year, Secretary Forrestal did trim his recommendations to the extent that he retained the doctrine of separate but equal living quarters and mess facilities for the black WAVES. Despite this offer of compromise, President Roosevelt directed Forrestal to withhold action on the proposal. Here the matter would probably have stood until after the election but for Thomas E. Dewey's charge in a Chicago speech during the presidential campaign that the White House was discriminating against black women. The President quickly instructed the Navy to admit Negroes into the WAVES.

And while you (correctly) say "fully integrated", it points out that: "black WAVES were restricted somewhat in speciality assignments and a certain amount of separate quartering within imegratcd barracks prevailed at some duty stations"

Originally, the idea was that the women would be segregated, but their numbers were too small for this to be practical. But once the women were desegregated, the door was open to do the same to the men. So it was very important. Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

All in all, very well done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 00:12, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Alright, that will do then. Hawkeye7 (talk) 01:31, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. Pendright (talk) 19:12, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Women in the U.S. Navy - World War I

FYI: Yeoman (F), a Wikipedia article, contains information on the above subject. Pendright (talk) 00:38, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Pre-ACR read through

Hello again Pendright. I have, as promised, had another read through the article and noted a few queries. Please though, keep in mind that I am not very familiar with military jargon nor really with US English variations so some of my comments can no doubt be dismissed. Let me know if you need any clarification of my notes...

• Maybe pipe refine links?
  • Lieutenant commander - Lieutenant commander (United States)
  • commander - Commander (United States)
  • captain - to Captain (naval) or Captain (United States O-6)

<> Done

• the WAAC legislation for the Navy - WAAC- like or equivalent or comparable

<> Done

• Jacob's assistant - Jacobs'

<> This appears to be correct as it stands. As I underswtand it, this is a singular possive noun and not a plural one.

Hmm, but the S is part of his name (ie not Randall Jacob) so possessive is Jacobs' or even Jacobs's. See for example John Adams, "Adams' birthplace", "Adams' mother", "Adams' reflections" etc.

<> I get it, finally!

• Their recommendation was Mildred H. McAfee - link again?

<> It's already linked in the lead, why again?

MoS says "Generally, a link should appear only once in an article, but if helpful for readers, a link may be repeated in infoboxes, tables, image captions, footnotes, hatnotes, and at the first occurrence after the lead." So seeing you'd repeated her full name I'd wondered if you'd meant to link again. But is fine as you have it.

Okay - duly noted!

• But, the task of convincing McAfee to accept and to persuade the Wellesley Board of Trustees to release her was difficult but successful.- maybe swap one of the 'but's for yet

<> Done

• the bill had passed both houses of Congress and sent to the president - been sent?

<> Done

• In More Than a Uniform, Winifred Quick Collins - adjust italics to exclude 'In'

<> Done

• played an important decision making role - decision-making?

<> Done

• Lieutenant Commander McAfee was simply told that she was to "run" the women's reserve and she was to go directly to the Chief of Naval Personnel for answers to her questions. Unfortunately, the decision was not made known to the operating divisions of the bureau." - attribute? ie whose quote is this?

<> Done

• The WAVES were primarily white, middle class, and represented every state in the country. - insert 'they' before represented and insert 'and' between white middle class

<> Done

• Included were black oxfords - add cap and possibly add piped wlink to Oxford shoe

<> Done

Mea culpa Ha! I meant cap O on oxfords - but good you added cap as part of uniform!

Done, got it this time! George Bernard Shaw is quoted as saying: The greatest trouble with communication is the illusion that it has been accomplished.

• The summer uniform was much the same as the winter uniform - same design as?

<> Done

• There would be two-months of intense training - two months'

<> Done

• intense training - intensive training?

<> Done

• Following their two-months of training - two months'

<> Done

• the lack of esprit de corps - should esprit de corps be in italics?

<> It's worthy of emphasis - Done

Sorry, not for emphasis but as a foreign word/term... When I'd looked at Esprit de corps, it was italicised but I have now checked MoS and esprit de corps is actually apparently considered common enough in English not to have italics.

<> Its most common use, though, seems to be related to the miltary.

• recruit-training center - hyphen correct?

<> Done

• (The school's original assignment was the training of yeomen). - period should be inside?

<> Done

• The recruit training routine began each weekday with Reveille at 5:30 or 6:00 A.M.; etc... (were they not using 24-hour time?) If using 12-hour, MoS says am and pm (or a.m. and p.m.) ie should be lower-case Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Times of day

<> Done

• Reveille appears with and without cap R

<> Done

• Followed by an hour of free time - sentence needs to start with "This was" followed by...or similar?

<> Done

• Captain's Inspection on Saturday morning... - probably insert 'was' after Inspection

<> Done

• Then, church services and free time until 7:30 P.M., when study hours began. - maybe round out sentence a bit? eg Trainees then attended church services...

<> Done

• The first class was to graduate in early January 1943, but on 30 December 1942 the Navy announced that future WAVE recruits would be trained at Hunter College... - reads like this class moved to NY for their last 2 weeks of training?

<> Added recruits in training

• Joy Bright Hancock / Joy Hancock should be just Hancock after first mention?

<> Done

• Between 17 February 1943 and 10 October 1945, sum 80,936 WAVES - some? I truly don't know:)

<> A sum is usually thought to be a total, grand total, tally, etc

• The mission of the WAVES was to replace the men in shore stations for sea duty. Still, some of the men were hostile to the WAVES, because being replaced meant sea duty. - needs tweaking, maybe just remove 'Still,'

<> Done

• Wanting to serve their country in the time of need was a strong incentive for a young woman during World War II. And thousands - comma or semicolon instead of new sentence? And seeing you have 'for a young woman', maybe 'serve their country' should be 'serve her country'?

<> Done

• With some, it was for the adventure, for others it was for the professional development, and still others joined for the chance to experience life on college campuses. - too many 'fors'? maybe, 'Some saw the lure of adventure, for others the professional development...'

<> Done

• The Navy established five separation centers - start with 'At the end of the war,'?

<> Done

• Anchors Away - Anchors Aweigh?

<> Done

• captions mention Hospital Apprentices and cryptography but there is no mention of these occupations in the body

<> It was not practical to list all the professions or occupations; it’s why we used terms as including and such as in the body. Hospital Apprentices would, however, fall under what we describe as Health Care.

• See also - some are not linked?

<> Because these three items are inked in the article itself, linking them here would apparently be considered double linking.

• Citations - 1. Ebert and Hall P. 27 - lowercase p

<> Done

• not sure if it's worth adding somewhere re name 'sometimes referred to in the singular as WAVE' but I wouldn't be surprised if well-meaning editor/s add an S.

<> As I mentioned, the relevant reference sources are not always consistent in their usage. It may follow that editors will have their own preferences. The review should ferret this out.

That's it. I look forward to watching ACR. Best wishes, JennyOz (talk) 05:56, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@JennyOz: Terrific job! I appreciate your work, as does Wikipedia. Pendright (talk) 18:57, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@JennyOz: I’ve addressed each of your queries; implementing most of them – those few unimplemented ones carry some form of explanation as to why. Your comments are welcome, and I thank you again for lending us your time and talent. Pendright (talk) 07:10, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi Pendright I've added 4 comments above, mainly to clarify my clumsy initial comments. All is looking wonderful and a big thankyou again for this fine article. Best wishes, JennyOz (talk) 12:43, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

@JennyOz: Thanks for following-up and for the kind words. Pendright (talk) 00:07, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi Pendright, Thanks for everything. I've enjoyed working with you. Let me know when the real review starts. Best wishes from downunder, JennyOz (talk) 01:39, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@JennyOz: My pleasure! Pendright (talk) 04:34, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Service "outside the country"

WAVES § Assignments needs clarification. Alaska and Hawaii were not outside the United States. I assume that prior to the policy change, women could only serve in the 48 states and D.C.? From brief online research I think this is Public Law 441 which also allowed women to serve in the "American Area" including Panama and the Caribbean, not just Alaska and Hawaii. Note that Panama Canal Zone was also part of the United States. One other historical quirk: some Carribean territories of occupied European countries were administered by the United States during the war (Aruba). I wouldn't be at all surprised if WAVES served there. ☆ Bri (talk) 02:01, 11 March 2019 (UTC)