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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mihaiam~enwiki (talk | contribs) at 13:19, 3 April 2019 (→Ducted fan, again). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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February 10, 2011Good article nomineeListed
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Caondă 1910

User:MilborneOne Okay, WHY did you delete it? Was there any reason whatsoever? Any good, real reason? Romanian-and-proud (talk) 18:19, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know I have never edited this article. MilborneOne (talk) 18:45, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not this one, the Jet aircraft one. There was a ton of reasons for the Coandă to be there, yet you deleted it. Romanian-and-proud (talk) 18:52, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This page is for comment and improvement of the related article Coandă-1910 so your question is not relevant here. MilborneOne (talk) 18:58, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ducted Fan

I removed the wording "Ducted fan". It was powered by a centrifugal compressor exausting through a duct. There is no other example of a ducted fan in similar configuration in the scientifical literature. If you would like to keep it, please come with similar examples Florinbaiduc (talk) 21:00, 8 November 2016 (UTC)Florin Baiduc[reply]

So it can't be a unique example of a configuration? That's no reasoning at all. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:16, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The term comes from our sources which discuss the aircraft, not from looking at the parts and guessing what they should or should not be called. Binksternet (talk) 21:33, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There are sources using the term "centrifugal compressor" [1]
We should use the best available term describing what it is, especially since the current dispute is due mainly to bad nomenclature. Mihaiam (talk) 10:20, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Coanda-1910.html

Ducted fan, again

Please stop defining Coanda's plane as propeled by a ducted fan!!. His plane was propelled by a centrifugal compressor. It's a completely different principle than that of a ducted fan! Check the drawings and pictures of Coanda's engine, then look at some ducted fans (propellers within a duct). A ducted fan can propel without the duct, a centrifugal compressor can not propel without one. Florinbaiduc 13:43, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it was a centrifugal compressor. However that is a subset of ducted fans, not something using a "completely different principle".
Coanda's innovation was to enclose the turbopropulseur in a duct, thus becoming a ducted fan. He also (inferring from the 1912 patent) used a design that was aimed at compression more than simply accelerating a mass of air, as a propeller does. This does not stop it being a ducted fan though. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:43, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually it is not a subset of a ducted fan! a ducted fan can propel without the duct. a centrifugal compressor not.--Florinbaiduc (talk) 13:46, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]


  • As to your attack on me, and editors generally, " Amazing how some people lack the education to see this difference!!" then that is irrelevant (it also fails WP:NPA and you don't even know what education other editors have either). We work by independent sources here, not the personal opinions of editors. The sources term this a "ducted fan".
Your claim, "A ducted fan can propel without the duct" is particularly odd. A ducted fan without a duct is no longer a ducted fan, so what does that show about anything? Also if the duct is (I would agree) more important for producing thrust with a compressor than with a propeller, then why does that make a compressor-in-a-duct less appropriate to use the term than a propeller-in-a-duct? Andy Dingley (talk) 13:49, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Easy: a ducted fan is a propeller in a duct, and can propel without the duct, because it sends the air towards the back. A centrifugal compressor send the air radially towards outside, and does not generate thrust without a properly shaped case. A trivial, albeit critical difference. I tried to explain it a number of times, only to get the changes reverted without explanation. That is also known as vandalism! --Florinbaiduc (talk) 13:54, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Then you don't even understand what a duct is, or the effect it has on Reynolds number, which is the reason for using a duct in the first place. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:56, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]


  • I'm not claiming anything, but a motorjet is a better definition than a ducted fan, as it is nearer to the physical principles behind it working...There is nowhere else in the literature a claim similar to yours, calling a centrifugal compressor a ducted fan. I know, it doesn't fit your agenda, but extraordinary claims must be baked by extraordinary evidence --Florinbaiduc (talk) 14:03, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Do you appreciate what a motorjet is? That it is a motor-driven compressor, followed by the combustion of fuel? Do you claim that Coanda was burning fuel in the duct of the 1910 aircraft? Andy Dingley (talk) 14:22, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]


Centrifugal compressors are not just a subset of ducted fans. They use a different kind of fan, centrifugal as opposed to axial. [1]
Either way, the most specific term, "centrifugal compressor", should be used. Mihaiam (talk) 09:57, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Coandă's device was both a ducted fan and also a centrifugal compressor. Its action (as a 'propulsor') was that of being a ducted fan. Its detailed implementation may have been a centrifugal compressor (it was either a centrifugal compressor, or at least a centrifugal fan), but that doesn't stop its main function. It is definitely not a centrifugal compressor, as applied to gas turbine engines.
It's not clear if this was a centrifugal compressor (i.e. with compression) or merely a fan (accelerating the air without significantly compressing it). We don't have a surviving example, I'm unaware if accurate replicas have been tested for this, and it's not the sort of thing which can be proven merely by looking at a presumed drawing of this time.
But what is clear is that its function, and how we have to primarily describe it, is as a ducted fan. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:59, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The 'propulsor' was most certainly a centrifugal compressor and patented as such at the time. [2]
It also was not just a ducted fan, having elements ducted fans lack like a diffuser.
If it's function should give the name we could just name it a jet engine, it's intended action being the same.Mihaiam (talk) 12:36, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is a diffuser visible in the patent drawings. Nor is one an essential part of a ducted fan (although it would improve efficiency, it's still a ducted fan without).
In no way is this a jet engine, as it's not an engine (it produces no power). It's a power-consuming fan, driven by a Clerget piston engine. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:43, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Adding a diffuser to a ducted fan in order to slow the flow and increase the static pressure makes the whole apparatus a centrifugal compressor.
I don't think it would improve propulsion efficiency, quite the opposite. Mihaiam (talk) 13:19, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.savioclima.com/en/axial-fans-and-centrifugal-fans-comparison
  2. ^ https://blog.exair.com/2018/12/13/henri-coanda-june-7-1886-november-25-1972/

Edit notice etc

I have read the discussions here and added an edit notice and some hidden text to the article. See if that makes any difference. --John (talk) 22:10, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request

In the Memorials and models section, it mentions a 10-leu coin and a price of 220 leu. In Romanian, leu is singular and lei is plural. The correct usage should be a 10-lei coin at a price of 220 lei. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.95.1.11 (talk) 12:12, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, it now says lei. Thanks for the correction. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:32, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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