Talk:Shaitan

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Shaitan received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Fixed parts of Iblis information

I fixed some parts of Iblis's description. Formerly it had innacurately said "Iblis was so good that he was elevated to the rank of angels" No where in the Qur'an does it ever say such a thing. The Qur'an describes Iblis as a chief of the Jinn, Jinn being made of smokeless fire, who refused to bow to Adam for this reason.

Shaitan in Dune

Removed from the article:

"Shaïtan is also one of the names of the giant worms in the novel Dune by Frank Herbert."

I can't remember or corroborate this, so I removed it from the article.

Well, read Dune again. Look at eg: "... fragments of melange, which Shaitan sometimes left behind in his passage." (Heretics of Dune), "Melange explosion brought Shaitan. No sandworm could resist a spice blow in its territory" (Chapterhouse Dune). It's how people call the worms after the death of Leto II, obviously after the word for Satan...

shaitan and shai-hulud are both names for the worms in dune; shaitan is the name of the worms when the rage and attack in the early books, but then in heretics of dune (i never read chapterhouse), the worms are always considered to be shaitan, because their have some of leto ii's essence/consciousness in them, and are more malicious towards humans, and more intelligent (they were animals in books 1-4).

Why has this information on Dune been removed? Unless there is a valid reason (and keeping this a religious article is not a valid reason, nor is it scholarly), please do not remove this information.

To my knowledge, the Fremen never referred to the sandworm as Shaitan. The Fremen referred to him as Shai'hulud or a Maker. Sheeana was the first to name him Shaitan after he killed her family. This was a shock to the Priests of the Divided God who considered Sheeana to be blessed because she could stand in the presence of the Divided God without being killed. Although Sheeana was the Tyrant's "sandrider", she was not really a Fremen. Being related to or decended from Fremen does not make you a Fremen. This is proven by the fact that there was at times intermarriage between sietch and village, yet there was disrespect for the people living in the villages even though they were distant relatives. What marks a true Fremen is following The Way. I conclude that no Fremen ever referred to the sandworm as Shaitan.

Misc Info

shaitan (singular)/shayateen (plural; i dont know dual) is also a category of jinni (see here); should that be included? Nateji77 08:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Removing crap

Shaitan was also the Chaldean form of the Egyptian god Set.

Somebody please back this with something. Sweetfreek 01:17, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This sort of attitude towards information is unscholarly and uncalled for. It might not be backed up, but its certainly not "crap".

Clarity and Bias in the Garden of Eden

"...nor does the Quran mention anything that there was another tree."

This makes no sense. I would fix it, but I have no idea what the original editor was trying to say.

More importantly than that, the italicized portions of "Shaitan and Adam and Eve" have a very anti-Judeo/Christian bias. I'm taking them out altogether.

Speaking of clarity and bias, what exactly is implied by the whole section about Tree of Life in Bible or "In Islam, the notion that God 'feared' that Adam or Eve would eat from that tree and rival Him is something completely contradictory to the concept of Almighty God." This seems to be, if not wholly irrelevant to an article on shaitan, at least completely biased. I have removed this material as it is largely irrelevant anyway, and hardly up to scholarly standards as the information is incorrect.

I'm also removing "Also, it must be stressed that unlike the Bible, the Qur'an does not blame or state that Eve goaded her husband into eating the forbidden fruit, nor does it relieve Adam of any blame for disobeying either." This article is not a comparison of the Hebrew Bible and the Quran, and this information is moreover irrelevant to an article about shaitan.

The article claims to be only pertaining to Islam, but throughout there are erroneous references to Judeo/Christian beliefs. Why? This peer reviewer is giving up on deleting the irrelevent and incorrect information (whoever wrote them put them in italic to emphasize their personal beliefs) as the writer seems hell bent on replacing them. This peer editor is giving up on trying to fix an unscholarly article and will leave the incorrect information be, to reflect the largely uneducated nature of this article.

Language needs to be brought up to a higher academic standard

Much language used in this article, particularly the last section, conveys a large deal of the opinion of the writer outside of an academic discussion. Someone please clean this up. Ex.: "harsh wild earth"

The article was obviously not written by one whose native tongue is English.

Links commented out

Who removed those links and why?

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but you can find out by using the "history" tab at the top of the article page. -- Beland 02:59, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

clean up...

I found this in a comment; I'm deleting that from the article and putting it here where it is less likely to cause confusion and more likely to get a response

The term "Iblis" was most likely borrowed from the Spanish word "diablos" ("devil") by the Moorish invaders of Christian Spain. Doesn't make sense. Iblis was written long before the Moorish conquest, please find a source.

Mythology of Shaitan

AlShaitan lured Adam and Hawwa' into eating from the tree. For that Allah damned AlShaitan, but delayed punishment until Doomsday. In Islamic view Shaitan was not cursed by God because of luring Adam and Eve but because of refusing to bow down to Adam , see Iblis There are other middle eastern mythologies concerning Shaitan differing from common Islamic view , a famous example is Yezidi sect's beliefs , Yezidi's are believed to predate Islam and are believed to consider Shaitan a name of their deity.I shall verify what I have in memory and add some information about their view of Shaitan .Please help if you have information about Yezidis.Pasha Abd 21:11, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Islam Template

As I understand things Shaitan is the Islamic equivalent of Satan or the Devil or what have you. Should the {{islam}} template be added? I mean, is this "part of a series of articles about Islam"? -Kode 22:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shayṭān (شيطان) is the equivalent in Islam of Satan in Christianity. The Islamic view of Satan, has both commonalities and differences with Christian and Jewish views.

that needs to be reworded. the article on satan doesn't cite him as the judeo-christian equiv of shaitan.--Missilepenguin! 00:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Contemporary Fiction --

In The Black Stallion Returns by Walter Farley, we learn that the original name of the horse was Shaitan. (This name seems to have been changed to Shetan in The Young Black Stallion and in later editions of the books. But it's just a different spelling of Shaitan, AFAIK.)

Jinn and E.T.???

"There was no translation for jinn in English language until recently, so it can be now be easily translated as E.T. (the Extra-Terrestrial)." What is this? This is completely unscholarly and subjective. Could this please be removed? There is already a fairly good article on the Jinn/Genies on Wikipedia and information can be borrowed from there.