Talk:Łódź Ghetto

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Pretty sure that the article is incorrect in identifying Chelmno as an Operation Reinharidt deathcamp. Wilhelm Ritter

Fair use rationale for Image:LodzRumJP.jpg

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BetacommandBot 03:12, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Łódź, Lodz or Litzmannstadt? What would it be?

Google Book Search:

• 626 on Litzmannstadt Ghetto
  
• 279 on Łódź Ghetto
  
• 832 on Lodz Ghetto
  

The unilateral move to a new title is unacceptable, including the careful removal of all alternative names from everywhere in Wikipedia by User: Fisel (e.g. even from other users personal talk pages, which is mind-boggling). Somebody please, roll it back and request the use of proper channels for community feedback. --207.102.64.198 (talk) 00:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

BTW, there never was a General Litzmannstadt according to Google search, contrary to User: Fisel's laughable edit summaries. --207.102.64.198 (talk) 01:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Title

In English one calls it the Lodz Ghetto. The current name is expressly Nazi. Norvo (talk) 04:47, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

As was the ghetto, no? Interesting that this has sat for a year; perhaps it might be well discussed over at Talk:Łódź? --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 21:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, both the ghetto and the name Litzmannstadt were Nazi. However, the usual name of the city and the ghetto in English is Lodz. Norvo (talk) 23:57, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually it's Łódź, per our article. I would support a move to Łódź Ghetto. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:22, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:22, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

---

Ghetto Litzmannstadt → Łódź Ghetto — Per above discussion, this is what it is most commonly called in English (modulo diacritics, but it's Wikipedia's style to include those). Also consistent with others in Category:World War II ghettos, and in particular its Poland subcategories.--Kotniski (talk) 06:38, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support Exactly what nom said move to Lodz Ghetto (without diacritics) per nom and User: Dohn Joe..--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 05:14, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support. It shouldn't have been moved to this name in the first place. Jayjg ^(talk) 18:54, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
  • To clarify, #1 choice is Lodz Ghetto, #2 choice is Łódź Ghetto. But definitely move it from Ghetto Litzmannstadt. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:26, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support The proposed name is the name used far more frequently in sources. Alansohn (talk) 19:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Additional note As much as I dislike diacritics myself, we should match the title of the parent article Łódź and use them here. Alansohn (talk) 19:37, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
• Partial support. I disagree that it's Wikipedia's style to include diacritics. In some cases it does, and in some it doesn't. (Cf. Tłuchowo and Hokkaido.) WP:DIACRITICS suggests that we should use the form most commonly seen in English. In this case, regardless of where WP puts the Łódź article, I think most people would agree that the most common usage of the subject of this page is Lodz Ghetto, which is where I would support a move. Dohn joe (talk) 20:59, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but WP:DIACRITICS is written (and defended from change) by people who dislike diacritics; it doesn't give an accurate picture of Wikipedia's actual customs, which we can observe (at least in relation to names in Poland and other European countries with Latin alphabets) to be to include original diacritics almost everywhere. Is there any special reason to deviate from the norm and omit them from this title? For example, is there strong Jewish usage that would omit them? How about the other Polish ghetto articles?--Kotniski (talk) 23:31, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Of course it should be renamed. It's invariably known as the Łódź Ghetto. The diacritics should most certainly be retained, as the correct name of the city doesn't sound anything like "Lodge" as a lack of diacritics would suggest. -- Necrothesp (talk) 00:23, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support. Most common name, and current common name... PS. If this is not clear, support Łódź Ghetto, obviously (since this is the name under discussion). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:13, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support no-brainer. Never heard of Litzmannstadt before. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 20:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

  I was asked to elaborate on Lodz vs. Łódź. I don't really care, but I'd say since the city goes by Łódź on wikipedia, consistency would be good. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 07:23, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Hans Biebow is underestimated

Hans Biebow is mentioned only once. The German Management Board (Gettoverwaltung) is mentioned in another place, no names.Xx236 (talk) 10:03, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Biebow was hanged in Poland, I haven't found any other German criminal punished.Xx236 (talk) 11:06, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Part of Hans Biebow should be copied here. No the text accuses Rumkowski, which is osme form of revisionism..Xx236 (talk) 10:21, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

A total of 68,000 Jews passed through it;

What is 68,000 and what is the "it"?

If you mean those who were transported to the ghetto, the number of local inhabitanst is needed, either.Xx236 (talk) 11:25, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

It is actually clear (the ghetto), but more importantly the 68,000 figure is incorrect. There were 68k Jews in 1944. Icewhiz (talk) 12:00, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Fixed. [1]. Icewhiz (talk) 12:11, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Link 8 is dead

Formerly 7. Xx236 (talk) 11:13, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Ghetto policing

You describe the period when the ghetto was isolated. At the beginning inhabitanst of some houses smuggled food. Xx236 (talk) 07:18, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

http://www.lodzgetto.pl/centralne_wiezienie.html,31 Some Polish smugglers were imprisoned in Central Prison.Xx236 (talk) 07:24, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Only one picture shows horrors

The other pictures don't inform about extermination. Why Jewish children inside Ghetto Litzmannstadt, 1940? Does the picture show death of 200 000?Xx236 (talk) 07:24, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Finding pictures is often a copyright nightmare. Do you have alternative/additional pictures available on Commons to suggest? Icewhiz (talk) 08:03, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

File:Children_headed_for_deportation.JPG Xx236 (talk) 08:40, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

That's already in the article - in the "Deportations" section. Icewhiz (talk) 09:48, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

So let's move the picture to the top of the page. Now a reader sees relatively glad people. How many readers study a whole page? The majority reads a lead and goes away. Xx236 (talk)

Radegast train station

Shouldn't the station be mentioned at the beginning of Chelmno transports? It is mentioned in 1944 part only.Xx236 (talk) 11:04, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

"Situated in the city of Łódź"

It's an error. The name of the city at that time was Litzmannstadt. The name Łódź Ghetto combines the Polish name Łódź and English/German word Ghetto. If there is Belzec extermination camp (notBełżec) so rather Lodz Ghetto. But the only correct name is Litzmannstadt Ghetto, compare https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/news-archive/litzmannstadt-ghetto-model Xx236 (talk) 06:30, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

The WP:COMMONNAME is Lodz ghetto - see google NGRAM (it isn't even close - Lodz "wins" by more than an order of magnitude). For Nazi death camps, built and set up by the Germans, the common name often follows the German. For ghettos in cities/towns - the common name usually follows the common local usage. I will further note that Litzmannstadt was a German imposed name (after Karl Litzmann) - which was in use for the brief period of the occupation by the occupation authorities (contrast this situation - to towns with centuries old German names - the common name in Deutsch for Lodz ist Lodz). Icewhiz (talk) 06:44, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

You admit that the commonname is Lodz Ghetto and later you explain that I'm totally wrong. So we agree that we move to Lodz Ghetto?

I have quoted an erroneous phrase from the page. The official name of the city wasn't Łódź, so a comment should be addet in this place.Xx236 (talk) 07:13, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

I showed evidence against Litzmannstadt. As for Lodz vs. Łódź - that's a more complex question and more difficult to evaluate (and at present - I don't have a position). Icewhiz (talk) 07:24, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

You showed evidence against renaming the page to litzmannstadt and for Lodz. You haven't defended the quoted phrase. But you write "I don't have a position". You can't have a position and don't have it in one thread. Unless you use some assertivness trics.Xx236 (talk) 11:59, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Ghetto or expulsion of Jews?

All Polish Jews were to be expelled to the Generalgouvernement eventually, while the non-Jewish population of Polish people reduced significantly, and transformed into a slave labour force for Germany. - what is the source of this phrase? It was a general strategy for Wartheland but was it formulated exactly for Lodz? The Ghetto was organized in February 1940 already.Xx236 (talk) 12:08, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

The Łódź Ghetto or Litzmannstadt Ghetto

The lead should explain the name. The only official name was Litzmannstadt Ghetto, the Germans didn't use Polish diacritics, their typwriters were German. Xx236 (talk) 08:34, 20 September 2019 (UTC) The Yad Vashem uses the name Lodz Ghetto [2]. Two Yad Vashem references are dead.Xx236 (talk) 08:40, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

The Frankfurt reference says Lodz. The next collection - the same. Xx236 (talk) 08:42, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Edits

I will add information on the food consumption of people in the Ghetto, the hierarchy of receiving food, the ration card system, and the general physical health of the Ghetto dwellers due to malnutrition. My information will come from Dr. Helene Sinnreich who is a professor at the University of Knoxville and serves as the editor in chief of the "Journal of Jewish Identities". I will also describe what Dr. Sinnreich wrote about food embezzlement by police forces and German control over the importation of food. The specific calorie intake is important when describing the the lack of food in the Lodz Ghetto so I will elaborate on how many calories on average people took in. I will add that the processes of purchasing food relied heavily on the quantity and quality of the goods that the Ghetto citizens brought from their houses. I will explain that previous social class and wealth before the Ghetto was established often determined the fate of food accessibility. Altogether I will add 200-300 words. If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page. Delaynie799 (talk) 07:04, 18 November 2019 (UTC)