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December 20

A recalcitrant book title

I am trying to cite a book. On the title page, the title is given as "In the beginning was the apeiron". I assume that I should capitalize "beginning" and "was", even though they're not capitalized on the title page. Right? Now, how about apeiron? The word is italicized on the title page because it is a transliteration of a non-English word, the ancient Greek term ἄπειρον. If I use {{cite book}}, the title will automatically be italicized; do I somehow preserve the author's typographical distinction between apeiron and the rest of the title? Further, should apeiron be capitalized? Should I use the {{lang}} template for a foreign word, even though it is transliterated? If so, what is the language code for ancient Greek? Peter Brown (talk) 00:38, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Peter M. Brown: We won't have guidance for such a special case, so you will need to use your own editorial judgement. I personally favor "In the beginning was the apeiron",(i.e., only the leading cap) as this is what other places on the web seem to use, and leave out any funny language templates. -Arch dude (talk) 00:55, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Peter M. Brown: If you are unhappy with that, remember that the {{cite book}} template, like all other templates, are merely conveniences for the editor and you do not have to use them. You can construct a ref without a template that displays exactly what you want it to display. -Arch dude (talk) 00:58, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

I think that 'was' is one of those words that is lowercase in title case and apeiron would be capitalized. In {{cite book}}:

{{cite book |title=In the Beginning was the ''Apeiron'' |first=Adam |last=Drozdek |publisher=Steiner |date= 2008 |isbn=978-3515092586}}

Drozdek, Adam (2008). In the Beginning was the Apeiron. Steiner. ISBN 978-3515092586.

Do not use {{lang}} in cs1|2 template parameters because use of that template will contaminate the metadata produced by the citation template.

{{lang|el-Latn|apeiron}} → apeiron

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:01, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Arch dude; Worldcat.org uses lower-case for the title. Schazjmd (talk) 01:05, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Go with the title page of the book. Worldcat is, like Wikipedia, crowd-sourced and full of errors. DuncanHill (talk) 11:56, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: Per MOS:CT, "was" and other forms of "to be" should be capitalised like other verbs. Hence It Is the Law, He Was a Friend of Mine, etc. Obviously that doesn't apply if the whole title is in sentence case though. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 12:32, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Stop nagging me for donations after I have already donated.

I donated. Way more than $2. Set a f'n cookie and stop bothering me if you want any further donations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.79.115 (talk) 01:37, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Since you are just an IP address, Wikipedia has no way to identify that it was you who donated (and in fact it doesn't keep a list of editors who have donated), but if you WP:Create an account, then you can switch off the requests. Dbfirs 02:23, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Help with footnotes

Hello! There is a problem I've been encountering for a while and would like to know how to fix it. When I use Footnotes on an article and then add a template which contains other footnotes, all notes stack at the {{notelist}} linked to the template instead of the one made for the article.

For example, at the 2019–20 Al Ahly SC season article, all footnotes in the article are stacked at the CAF Champions League group stage section where a template is using a {{notelist}} for its notes; while the notes section can be found empty with errors. Is there any solution to fix this error except for changing the notes format from </efn> to group=note?

Thanks in advance! Ben5218 (talk) 08:57, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

The article pulls in the table from the template {{2019–20 CAF Champions League group tables}}. The template generates the tables using the {{#invoke:Sports table|function}} module. That module automatically adds the Notes section if there are notes in the table. So what's happening is that the notes section is being inserted to catch the notes in the table, but is also catching notes from earlier in the article. Hope that explains it. - X201 (talk) 10:07, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@X201: Hello, and thanks for the reply. Apparently I didn't clarify what do I mean exactly. I understand what causes the problem, but I was wondering if there is a way to avoid it and prevent it from occurring. Ben5218 (talk) 12:21, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Ben5218: One possibility is to change all the {{efn}}'s in the article to {{efn-ua}}, and the {{notelist}} to {{notelist-ua}}. This will keep them separate from those in the table. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:06, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks guys, both you. I was wondering if it's possible to keep it in that format and prevent the notes from being inserted into the notelist generated by the template, but apparently it's not possible. So, thanks again! Ben5218 (talk) 15:27, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Translation

Hello,

I'd like to translate the biography of a person that I represent into English and Turkish, from German. How can I do that?

Best regards, Burak — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mburakerol (talk • contribs) 13:46, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Mburakero1 See Wikipedia:Translation. Since you say you represent the person, see also WP:COI and WP:PAID. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:52, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Mburakerol: Please be aware that the separate Wikipedias are different projects with possibly different rules. This means that we do not speak for the Turkish Wikipedia. It also means that the existence of the German Wikipedia article as no bearing on whether or not we would accept the article here, and in particular the subject must be notable by our definition. See WP:N. We need references to what we define as "reliable sources" (WP:RS). Note that we do not require that those sources be in English, so that may simplify your task. However, it will be harder for our reviewers to assess notability if your sources are not in English, and this might delay a review by our already-overworked volunteers. -Arch dude (talk) 21:15, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Why bulleted?

In Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos article there are bullets (•) present in the infobox. These bullets are of no use, space consuming and against Wikipedia's rule. Can anyone remove those bullets? Both Wikipedia pages are protected so I can't do this. Thanks. (223.230.173.137 (talk) 16:38, 20 December 2019 (UTC))

Could you point us to which rule they are against? They are put there using {{hlist}}, a template which is used on 130,000 pages, often in infoboxes and navboxes. I'm not sure why there would be such a widely used template for something that is "against Wikipedia's rule". ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:48, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@ONUnicorn: This has been brought here as a result of a discussion at Talk:Shamsheer Vayalil#Needs review where it has been disputed that the infobox at the Shamsheer article should contain bullet points; I think, in relation to educational facilities. Editors have said to the OP (our regular Shamsheer edit requester) that the points are not required and they have then gone out of their way to find articles with the bullets and now are trying a different tack. Eagleash (talk) 17:02, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Eagleash: Are those bullets in Jeff and Bill articles necessary? Are those bullets not wasting spaces? I think it's not about bullets but only matter of discrimination with us and Indian articles.Many things has been removed by you all from Shamsheer Vayalil's article without any reason or say on sake of fake wikipedia's rule which is not applicable to all articles.I think wikipedia should make a different help desk to post betterment queries related to Indian articles. Feeling really disappointed 😔😔. Thanks. (223.230.173.137 (talk) 03:48, 21 December 2019 (UTC))

Using those little "interpuncts" is a pretty standard practice. Not sure how they waste space? Its not like we have to make articles as small or efficient as possible. The one or two extra bytes of data they add is inconsequential compared to the enormous size of Wikipedia. I get the feeling that this is not about the interpuncts however. You seem to have a much deeper concern/resentment about this article. Folks editing the article seem to be trying to improve it. What about their edits are you unhappy about? Why have you been unable to resolve this on the talk page? Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 06:36, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

S. I. Hiyakawa

please create a page/information about the late Mr. S.I. Hiyakawa, a former U.S. Senator from California (circa 1960’s/70’s), former President of San Francisco State College (circa 1960’s), and contributor to studies in General Semantics……… — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrgexcellency (talk • contribs) 17:16, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Mrgexcellency: You can post your request at WP:RA, or you can do it yourself by following the guidelines at WP:YFA and using the wizard there to create a draft for review. RudolfRed (talk) 19:31, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Mrgexcellency: Did you mean S. I. Hayakawa? -Arch dude (talk) 21:05, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Using Maps from Commons in a Novel?

I've been working on a historical novel for just about forever. I'm finally getting to the point where I'm close to sending it to a publisher or maybe just publishing myself. It's a novel about WWII in the Pacific and the USNs role in some specific battles. I really need a couple maps so readers appreciate the basics of which forces were coming from what direction. I've found a couple of maps in the commons that look pretty good. My question is, if I use those does that mean that the whole novel then has to be freely available? Or would that be fair use since I wouldn't be charging (making a huge leap of faith and assuming I'm able to get anyone to pay to read it) for the maps but the text, but I'm afraid that may still not be within the boundaries of open source use. Is that correct? If I can't use maps from the commons does anyone know of sites where there would be simple maps for major WWII naval battles in the pacific that are in the public domain and that I could use? They don't have to be flashy with lots of colors, those old time maps that look as if they were drawn by hand and are in just black and white would fit right in with the theme of the book (it's fiction but I'm trying to be as historically accurate as possible). Thanks for any feedback, if there is another forum where I should ask this question, please let me know that as well, wasn't sure, this doesn't seem to really fit the Tea House or the Help Desk so I thought I would try here. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 21:57, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@MadScientistX11: You can use the material, you just need to provide attribution for the source. If you click on the description of the file at Commons, it will show what the license is and you can see what the attribution requirement is. RudolfRed (talk) 22:03, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

(ec):See WP:REUSE and c:Reusing content outside Wikimedia Meters (talk) 22:06, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Carol lake

How do I create a reference regarding this author winning the Guardian newspaper fiction prize in 1989 in an article about her? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.34.52 (talk) 22:24, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

First, find a reliable source (WP:RS). This should be fairly easy in this case. Then, go read Help:Referencing for beginners for how to format your reference. then, edit the article using your newfound knowledge. If you are timid, just slap your reference into the article's talk page and ask another editor to format it or come back here, but there is no harm (and much good) in trying to do it yourself, because if you mess it up you (or someone) can undo it and try again. And thanks! -Arch dude (talk) 23:39, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

December 21

Help:Cite errors/Cite error ref no key

I edited the page on dr Arthur Neve under medical achievements. He was awarded....1901. I want to use the reference 2 for this addition to the text however the text editor inserted it as reference 6 and it is not correcting. Please help — Preceding unsigned comment added by NisarMirDr (talk • contribs) 00:46, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

 Done I pasted this code: <ref name=":2" />. The fact is also sourced here. Seems you forgot a space in your edit. Please remember to use the preview feature, and provide an edit summary. Thank you for your contribution. Wakari07 (talk) 01:09, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

I would love to give money to your company

I would give money to your company. But from when I was in school my professors said i could never use you as a source. Many of the sub sources I tried to use of your would not work. Your "editing" over the decade has become very bias. Can you find a way to be in line with the truth once as yow were in the past? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:741:180:D9C0:E053:FAD2:EBA2:4607 (talk) 01:54, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

A most valuable contribution would be to enumerate such cases where assertions are not backed by verifiable reliable source, so "we" may try to fix them. On "truth", please read WP:TruthWP:Neutral point of view. Wakari07 (talk) 02:09, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Your professors are right to say not to use Wikipedia as a source. That's because we are a tertiary source. In scientific and academic writing, you should only use primary or secondary sources. In fact, we have the same policy. We don't cite ourselves either, only reliable primary and secondary sources (with an emphasis on secondary). We work very hard to minimize bias. But, like all things, we have some bias. But I wager that we are far more neutral, and committed to neutrality, than a wide range of publications. A final note, we aren't a company. The people you talk to here are volunteers, who don't get paid. All the money goes to keep the servers running and to run the Wikimedia foundation, the nonprofit which administers many, many Wikiprojects. You can donate, or not, we don't particularly care. But as Wakari07 says, helping us fix bias by editing is much more valuable. Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 06:24, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

I don't accept the premise at all. Compared to a decade ago, there are more editors and more automated tools looking at more things closely and carefully, with access to more and better sources than ever before. The only bias is toward accuracy. Encyclopedias used to cost hundreds of dollars, take up shelves, were hard to search, and had to be dusted. In the 90s, we got Encarta, for $100+ (?). Now we have access to something that is far more timely and relevant, for free. Heck yeah, I do care if you give – generously! And thank you. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 13:02, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

How to write a page

I remember a long time ago a interactive tutorial for beginners on how to write a Wikipedia article. I cannot remember where to find it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steveadrehel (talk • contribs) 04:57, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Steveadrehel, You are probably looking for the The Wikipedia Adventure. Hope that helps! Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 06:19, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help. The Wikipedia Adventure is what I was looking for, but could not remember. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steveadrehel (talk • contribs) 16:13, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Blocked without reason

I don’t know if this is the right place but I don’t know where or whom I can address my question. Here is the only place I have found. Just accidentaly, today I have found out that I am blocked from editing pages on Wikipedia. Moreover that I have a long history of blockings. How can I find out the exactly reason I have been blocked considering that I have never published any article on Wikipedia neither modified or edited an existed one? I have no way to contact the admin who blocked me, to talk to him or ask him anything. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.137.14.75 (talk) 08:59, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

By posting here, you are evading your block. A reason for the block would be articulated on your user talk page, or in the Block Log(which also appears in a red box at the top of the screen when you attempt to edit). There should be a block notice on your user talk page giving instructions on how to request unblock; if you do not have access to that page, you will need to use WP:UTRS to make your request. Please see WP:AAB for more information on appealing your block. 331dot (talk) 09:04, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Since you say that you've never edited here before, I'm guessing you were accessing Wikipedia using your school's IP address. IP addresses are often shared between multiple computers, and since school vandalism is common their IP addresses are often blocked. You won't see these notices if you create an account here. – Thjarkur (talk) 16:02, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

If you do not log in, then we only know your IP address. But IP addresses are shared: all those blocks, etc., refer to other people and you may ignore them: avoid the problem by creating and using a login. If you were logged in and saw a bunch of activity about things you never did, then your account is compromised. abandon that account, notify us of its name, and create a new account with a stronger password and always log out when finished. -Arch dude (talk) 16:23, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Corrections

Why are you deleting the edits that are being done?! What you are doing is helping them hide the truth of what really happened. All information must be posted. There in nothing derogatory or perverse, it is the truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.133.38.2 (talk) 09:46, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

If this question is about Reno Express, then there seems to be an edit war going on. Please discuss the content on the talk page of the article. Dbfirs 09:55, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not deal in truth, but in what can be verified, as truth is in the eye of the beholder. Please see WP:TRUTH as well as WP:BLP. All edits must be sourced to an independent reliable source. 331dot (talk) 09:58, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Trying to donate / scammers

Hi wiki!

I love the cause and have donated in the past but i was recently scammed when I followed the link to donate - is there some way you can request donations on the website and reassure us that it’s not a scam?

I don’t donate at the moment because of the scam site (my bank called me and made sure I didn’t lose money that time but I can’t be sure next time).

Tricky one I’m sorry - many thanks, Grace — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.14.174.230 (talk) 11:11, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. I don't know where you saw a link to donate when you were scammed. You can use the "Donate to Wikipedia" link at the top left of the desktop site. It goes to a page at donate.wikimedia.org. If you are on the mobile site then start by clicking "Desktop" at the bottom. This all assumes you start somewhere at our website en.wikipedia.org. There may be scammers who register similar url's and try to fool people who accidentally visit another site than the real Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:59, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

The Joy Machine

Hello,

My band is The Joy Machine. We are an American band originating from Champaign, IL. We would like to inquire about how to get our band listed on Wikipedia? We have performed multiple times publicly and believe it would be an honor to be a foot note at his point on Wikipedia.

Please let us know our next steps on getting listed on Wikipedia at your earliest convenience.

Best Regards,

Francis Wassom

(Redacted) www.thejoymachine.band — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cfranciswossom (talk • contribs) 13:58, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

@Cfranciswossom: Unfortunately, Wikipedia does not contain 'listings'. Wikipedia has articles on notable subjects based upon what has been written about the subject in multiple independent relaible sources. It is not a place for promotion or publicity. In addition to the links above please see WP:NMUSIC for what constituutes notability in respect of musical topics. As you have a connection to the band you should not be involved in either creating or editing any future article about it / them. Please see WP:COI for more information, If the act is truly notable, volunteer editors here (without a connection) will create a page when appropriate. (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the [ reply ] button, which automatically signs posts.) Thank you and good luck with your musical career. Eagleash (talk) 15:11, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

@Cfranciswossom:More brutally, but also more humorously, Wikipedia:No one cares about your garage band. -Arch dude (talk) 16:18, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

You _must_ upgrade your browser

Retrieved from https://wikipedia.org/sec-warning Since when Wikipedia started issuing such orders? That's a very remarkable way of development, friends. Just reminding, best way to stay secure is to keep information in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

Did marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation came to power in Wikipedia already? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.78.32.62 (talk) 18:29, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Nobody is forcing you to update your browser, but our site runs on https. If your browser can't handle it, than that's a security issue at your end, not ours, and by not addressing it your leaving your computer open to every passing hacker; it's not reasonable for you to expect us to compromise the security of our servers and of every other user to accommodate a small handful of people running archaic browsers. If you're having trouble connecting even after updating your browser (likely because you're running the XP/IE6 combination or a very old incarnation of Android), see HTTPS/Browser Recommendations. ‑ Iridescent 20:05, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Security > Availability. Wikipedia 2020. Thanks for reply, got your message. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.78.32.62 (talk) 20:18, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia is useless if every passing hacker can come in and do damage. So yes, security is important. It is not difficult to find updated browsers, many are free. 331dot (talk) 20:22, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree with you IP, 100 million internet users (>3% of internet users) will suddenly be unable to connect, only being given a few weeks to encounter that confusing info page. – Thjarkur (talk) 02:27, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

I think it's been about 3 months. There was a progressive increase in the frequency of the page. Nil Einne (talk) 18:48, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Email address

I wanted to donate and started filling out form. Once I saw I HAD to give my email address I quit. Why do you need that information? The Salvation Army does good too. They don’t ask me to fill out a form to donate. Card number. Name. Address. Wasn’t that enough for you guys? Foolish. Dishonest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.190.129.139 (talk) 19:10, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that way; I don't see what is 'dishonest' about it. Giving out email addresses is a fact of life these days, if you don't wish to, however, that's fine. I think they need your email address to send a receipt back to you as confirmation for your records. The Foundation does not give away or sell information related to donations. There are other ways to donate, such as mailing a check if you prefer. See the Other Ways to Give page for more information. 331dot (talk) 19:14, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor. The Wikimedia Foundation is the group that collects the money, and any complaints about fundraising should be directed to them. The volunteer editors of English Wikipedia have nothing whatsoever to do with the fundraising campaign. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:18, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia fundraiser

As someone who donated to Wikipedia I feel annoyed (unacknowledged, unappreciated) when I continue being asked for a donation every time I open Wikipedia. Donors should open Wikipedia and see “Thank you for donating in (year)” instead of the pink donation-request text-box. Donors will be more likely to donate annually if they get this small pat on the back.

Cynthia Holmes P.S. I worked in the not-for-profit world for 25 years and spent a lot of time thinking about how to encourage people to give. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Holmescah (talk • contribs) 19:52, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Holmescah We editors have nothing to do with the fundraising that the Foundation does. Please communicate any complaints or suggestions about fundraising to the Foundation. You can disable the fundraising banner messages in your preferences. 331dot (talk) 19:56, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

And I for one am very pleased that, as far as I know, nothing anywhere in Wikipedia has any knowledge whatever about donations that have been made, Holmescah. I would regard it as potentially compromising its neutrality if information about donors were even in principle available to Wikipedia. --ColinFine (talk) 22:13, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Page jump

When I copy, cut, or paste, the edit box jumps to the top of the article and I have to scroll all the way back down again. Any ideas on how to fix this? Thanks, Willbb234^Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 20:00, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Willbb234, another editor and I discussed this odd behavior not long ago. We even went through all of our various enabled user scripts to try to pin down what was causing it. What I found is that it only happens when I have syntax-highlighting enabled. If I toggle syntax-highlighting off, I can copy/paste without that jump happening. Schazjmd (talk) 20:20, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Here is the archived discussion. Schazjmd (talk) 20:21, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

@Schazjmd: oh yes! Now I think about it, it began happening around the time that I turned the highlighting on. I quite like the highlighting, so the problem will have to stay, unfortunately. Thanks very much for the help, Willbb234^Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 20:23, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Willbb234, since it's just a toggle, I've been trying to get it into muscle memory: toggle > copy > paste > toggle, or toggle > cut > toggle. I really like the highlighting too. Schazjmd (talk) 20:27, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

@Schazjmd: sorry, I'm a little confused? Willbb234^Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 20:31, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Willbb234, I mean on the editing dashboard. I try to remember to click the syntax-highlighter icon before copying/cutting so that I don't get the jump behavior. Schazjmd (talk) 20:34, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

@Schazjmd: understood. Willbb234^Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 22:14, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

FWIW; I've found my cursor jumping to the start of sentences even when just regularly typing a lot recently. Never thought it could be a syntax highlighter thing. I'll do some testing. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:27, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

The Statue or Responsibility Thomas Antus

https://statueproject.com/

To whom it may concern, Thomas Antus has for close to two decades been working with state and federal officials to move forward The Statue of Responsibility. There is another group who has come in after his proposal was made public that is also working on a similar project. I can not find information on Thomas Antus’s proposed project. I would like to be able to direct people to Wikipedia along with the project website.

Thank you, Aaron Antus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.60.9 (talk) 20:45, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Please read, study, and understand WP:NCORP. If the project is notable by that definition, then we want an article on it. Otherwise, not. If, after studying that page, yu decide that we want an article, please proceed to WP:YFA to see how to create it. -Arch dude (talk) 21:13, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Hub

Explain please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.253.195.121 (talk) 20:57, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

You will have to be more specific as to what exactly you require help with. If you want information about one of the applications of the word 'hub' please see this page which will offer a list of articles to select from. Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 21:04, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

December 22

Creating a WikiProject

I would like to start a WikiProject that helps younger editors become productive editors. I believe that younger editors are an important part of Wikipedia because they can do great things for the project. However, some potential young editors get blocked for various reasons. The reason why I am proposing this is because I feel that younger editors are often overlooked when it comes to editing Wikipedia. We need to be sure that they can understand the way Wikipedia works. I would like other editors to help me start this WikiProject because a WikiProject is not just the work of one person. It's a group of editors working together for a goal. My question is how do I start a WikiProject? Please ping me in your reply. Interstellarity (talk) 00:31, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

​See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Guide#Creating_a_WikiProject, you just start a proposal and if enough people support it, it can be created. They do recommend creating a taskforce under an already existing project when possible, in this case you could start a sub-project under WikiProject Editor Retention. – Thjarkur (talk) 01:48, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Thjarkur: This must be handled carefully. I general, it's a bad idea to ask younger editors to identify themselves by age. -Arch dude (talk) 02:22, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

True, many do identify as "young" though without specifying it further. I do quite like Interstellarity's goal here, perhaps this could be achieved by reviving the adopt-a-user program and directing young editors there without directly mentioning age. – Thjarkur (talk) 04:28, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Þjarkur: I have created Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Editor Retention/Younger Editors. Can you please make sure that I did this correctly? Interstellarity (talk) 13:11, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

​You don't need to propose it there if it's only a sub-project, instead you can just draft a sub-page of WP:WikiProject Editor Retention and get the opinion of the people at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Editor Retention. – Thjarkur (talk) 13:17, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Þjarkur: I'm not sure how to draft a subpage on this WikiProject, but I did leave a message on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Editor Retention to get some help with this. How long will it take before I get a response? Interstellarity (talk) 13:23, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Citing a source where the original video is missing but is backed up on youtube

Moved to Wikipedia:Teahouse § Citing a source where the original video is missing but is backed up on youtube

 – Duplicate thread – Thjarkur (talk) 01:59, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

What is this? Unintentional visit to Tajik Wikipedia site.

I received an email at my personal email address. It came from wiki@wikimedia.org as the sender. The subject line says: SamakBot‬ left you a message on Википедиа. It stated that I have a message on Wikipedia. I went to my Talk Page. There was no message. I went back to the email. I clicked where it said "View Message". And it brought me to this page: [1]. Does anyone know what this is all about? I have no idea. Needless to say, it's in some foreign language that I don't understand. And I can't think of any activity that I did on the "normal" (English) Wikipedia that would have led to this ...? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:45, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: I just got one of those too. Perhaps the bot is welcoming every single user. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 05:55, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

But, if you want to (partly or fully) disable e-mail notifications on all wikis, visit Special:GlobalPreferences#mw-prefsection-echo. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 06:05, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

The language is Tajik and the site is tg.wikipedia.org. Both of your global logs show that you've visited that site and thus autocreated an account previously (JAS on 13 Dec 2017, SoY on 8 Nov 2019); the bot is probably sending a welcome message to every account-holder there to remind them that tg-wiki still exists. ‑ Iridescent 08:18, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. How strange and odd. Why would I ever visit a "Tajik" Wikipedia, that I never even heard of? Is there some type of "normal activity" on this English Wikipedia, that might somehow "transport" me over to that strange "Tajik" Wikipedia site? I can't think of any reason that I would deliberately or intentionally visit such an unfamiliar site. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:11, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

​If you're like me then you will have clicked on it in the interwiki language sidebar, reasons being: interest for other unfamiliar languages, checking out interwiki links before nominating for deletion, or mis-clicking. Way too many of them send every visitor automatic messages... – Thjarkur (talk) 15:29, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

I also got one and my account there was created in 2015. I don't like when wikis send automatic welcome messages so users who have no edits and didn't originally create an account there. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:46, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

And I. While I have never knowingly contributed at tg.wiki, my Special:Contributions page there makes it look like I have. I'm pretty sure those 'contributions' are the result of someone else importing those pages from en.wiki. That suggests that Editor Joseph A. Spadaro's 'contribution' to tg.wiki was also an import because it matches this en.wiki edit. Perhaps for Editor PrimeHunter as well: tg:Вижа:Ҳиссагузориҳо/PrimeHunter.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:08, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Makes sense. Thank you. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:42, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: Apparently you have contributed to Tadjik Wikipedia - by creating tg:Template:Age as of date/doc. --CiaPan (talk) 20:11, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

That page was imported (oddly, by upload) on 16 Aug 2015. I, however, have no imported edits on that wiki, so I have no idea why the bot welcomed me. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:19, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

That's an artefact of MediaWiki, not an actual contribution; when material is copied from one WMF wiki to another, the edit history is also copied across for copyright purposes (your edits are copyright to you and licenced to the WMF, not owned by the WMF). If you check your global contributions you'll find all kinds of edits made by you to languages you didn't even know existed. It looks like the bot has been on a spree of adding "welcome" messages to every account's talkpage which in turn has triggered email alerts; this would be forbidden on en-wiki but I've no idea what their policy is there. ‑ Iridescent 20:28, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: You are probably right that you have never visited tgwiki before. tg:Special:Logs/Joseph A. Spadaro claims you created the account 13 December 2017. That's the date an automated process created thousands of tgwiki accounts within nine minutes for users who had edits imported in the past without having an account there. The same happened for other wikis during a few days. It was discussed at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 162#Edits (rather than the text of edits) being imported into Wikipedias of other languages. The user creation log falsily shows the user as the performer. tg:Special:Logs/Trappist the monk was one minute earlier. tg:Special:Logs/PrimeHunter really was me visiting the wiki in 2015 but the log looks exactly the same as the false logs. It's possible for MediaWiki to give another account as account creator, e.g. my main account [2] for my alternative accounts which have empty user creation logs as performer [3][4] because I was deliberately logged in as PrimeHunter when I created the accounts. I think a bot with an explanatory username should have been credited for the account creations in December 2017. There must also be many retired or deceased users who suddenly got log entries. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:58, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

George Kennedy

Why in the world would you delete my post about George Kennedy? I was his best friend for many years and married to his daughter for 10 years. I feel the public should know the truth. He had no daughter named Betty and his daughter Shannon and his adopted daughter Taylor as well as his love for his grandchildren should be mentioned. He moved to Eagle Idaho because myself and his daughter Shannon moved here. That is why he moved here to be closer to his family. How dare Wikipedia or anyone for that matter not show how he was passionate about his family. I sure hope you do not remove the latest post I placed....Any issues? Then contact me. His daughter Shannon and grand kids wold be appalled by this not being on their grandfathers page.

Dan Landis — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel Landis (talk • contribs) 06:12, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Daniel Landis: Did you cite a professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic source that supported a neutral claim, letting the page history handle any credit for your contributions? Or did you post hagiography while bragging about yourself in the article? Gosh, it's almost like we're an encyclopedia and not a social media site or something. Ian.thomson (talk) 06:30, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Daniel Landis: Hello, your 'post' was removed for several reasons. Firstly, it was unencyclopedic, (I.e. not written in an appropriate style or tone). It was misplaced in the Kennedy article and contained no references – Wikipedia reports upon what has been written about a subject in independent reliable sources and cannot accept uncorroborated information from persons claiming or stating a connection with the subject. In relation to that point, please see WP:COI and make any necessary declarations. Wikipedia is not a form of social media where connected persons can add content expressing an opinion; sourcing of the information and the opportunity for the reader to verify the information are absolutely crucial to the project. The Various social media sites are more suited to that purpose. In case you would like to contribute further to the overall project, some important information will be left at your talk page. Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 06:36, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

I've removed the alleged adopted daughter/actress Betty Kennedy, as she is unsourced. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:53, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Deleted article

East Bengal the Real Power this article was deleted last month. Is it possible to get a copy of the article, so that it can be modified and make it suitable to re-publish? I asked the admin who deleted it, but I didnt get any reply...  S A H A  07:09, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Arnabsaha2212: In all honesty, re-writing that draft to be good enough to publish is just going to be more work than writing it from scratch. The actual text was promotional and contained copyright violations. Most of the sources were not reliable, except for maybe this one, this one, and maybe this one.

See User:Ian.thomson/Howto for a much surer way to get an article published. You just need to find another source like the ones I just shared and summarize them. Ian.thomson (talk) 07:20, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Ian.thomson: my exams are going on, thats why I am not getting enough time. If I get the previous one, it will be easy for me to atleast chalk out the main points. and I will use reliable sources.  S A H A  10:08, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Arnabsaha2212: The approach you're trying to go would require you to:

1) Re-write the parts that violate copyright (entire sections).

2) Re-write the parts that are promotional (most of the article).

3) Replace unreliable sources where possible (most of the sources).

4) Remove unreliable sources when no reliable replacements can be found.

5) Find another reliable source to confirm notability because after you remove the unreliable sources the article will not have enough to establish notability.

The approach I'm suggesting is:

1) Find at least one more reliable source (maybe this one or this one)

2) Summarize that source and these, two.

1) Summarize these four sources: [5], [6], [7], [8]

The old version is only going to get in your way and cause trouble. Ian.thomson (talk) 11:26, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Ian.thomson: OK. thanks for helping :)  S A H A  12:55, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Watchlist

Where do I ask a question about the content of the watchlist as it is currently displayed? Jmar67 (talk) 09:20, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Jmar67, I would imagine that the Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) would be suitable. ~~ OxonAlex - talk 10:48, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Jmar67 (talk) 12:21, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Transferring templates from this project to another project and where I can learn coding in this site

Hi, so I dont know where to ask this question but will ask it here. In the past few months I was trying to build a new Wikimedia project (it is still in the incubator) but I needed to have the templates there like the infoboxes and other stuff which are here. How can I transfer them to there? Would that be copyright violation? Also if I want to learn how to code in this site, where should I start learning? I am new in the internet and I learned few information about how to code in PHP (I have created telegram bots using that language and that's it).--SharabSalam (talk) 09:35, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

​You just copy the enwiki templates over to aynwiki one by one. You write in the edit summary either "Copying from enwiki" or a more detailed "Copying the contents of [[:en:Template:Example]]. See that page for attribution history.". If you mention where the material is from (preferably with a link to the original page) it's not a copyright violation. You can also use Special:Export to import the entire edit history but that's not really necessary (dewiki prefers that method).
Regarding coding, what functionality are you interested in adding? If it's userscripts, I'd recommend Googling "jquery tutorial". If it's Wikipedia templates, you just slowly learn it by imitating existing templates and trying to glue together the explanations in mw:ParserFunctions or mw:Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual.
– Thjarkur (talk) 12:46, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Þjarkur, I want to learn both the userscripts and the templates. Thank you so much for this informative answer!--SharabSalam (talk) 13:06, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

​Since you need to localize your templates, it might be easier to copy the infobox templates from the Arabic Wikipedia (switching infoboxes to right-to-left is rather time consuming). I'd recommend looking into copying what the Spanish Wikipedia does (I don't know who else does it) where the infoboxes pull in information from Wikidata. It's time consuming to set up, but might be worth it for getting a new project going. – Thjarkur (talk) 13:14, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Þjarkur, that is a great idea. There is a Wikidata infobox here Template:Wikidata Infobox which I can learn from how to import Wikidata information to an infobox. I think Arabic Wikipedia uses the same method as the Spanish Wikipedia. I have seen articles with infoboxes that pulls the data from Wikidata. I will see what I can do tomorrow. Thank you so much for your help.--SharabSalam (talk) 13:35, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

List defined references

Hi, I'm looking for the bot that can be used to automatically remove errors that arise from when references are removed from articles that use list defined references. Thanks. Onetwothreeip (talk) 11:48, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

I think you're looking for AnomieBOT. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 12:25, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Bet lynch

I'm quite dissapointed the bet lynch page was returned as there are rumours that she will make a final return to coronation street. I'm not the only one to have edited the page.

Unless I can find out from Corrie that they are looking into it it should go up — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dartslady180! (talk • contribs) 16:41, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

This is about Bet Lynch. Wikipedia aims to base its articles on verifiable facts, not on "rumours and reports". Maproom (talk) 17:00, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

A tv show's title with ruby characters

I had a chat off wiki about if a tv show used ruby characters and one thinks we shouldn't use the spelling and the other does. But I don't remember that well. If this is already mentioned on a MoS? Unblue box (talk) 20:40, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

The word Furigana has this. But it's not a MoS. Do you mean what do you do when you see, 師団(バトラ)の挑戦, this spelling is Shidan no Chōsen. Are you asking that when using words like these were you confused if your using Shidan (師団) or Batora (バトラ). As I see it it's Shidan no Chōsen. Also the episode 12 from Welcome to Demon School! Iruma-kun is using this too. 2601:640:C680:2E10:8143:74A7:1F28:E107 (talk) 02:38, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Walled garden template

Is the {{Walled garden}} template broken or am I missing something? There seems to be no usage information and it looks like the [[{{{articles}}}]] bit is supposed to list the names of the other pages in the walled garden but I can’t see how to do that as a simple piped name as a parameter does nothing (in preview). Lineslarge (talk) 20:48, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

​It's an unfinished and unused template. This would probably be unnecessary template clutter on articles in any case. – Thjarkur (talk) 21:36, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks for checking. I was going to ask if there is a draftify process for templates, but I see you’ve already dealt with this. Good work! Lineslarge (talk) 21:59, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Pings

If I copy and paste my barnstars to a new page, will it ping the users who gave it to me? Willbb234^Talk (please {{ping}} me in replies) 22:10, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Willbb234: One of the requirements for pinging is that the edit contains your own signature. Copying text with an old signature can be enough to cause pings but if you make sure there are no own signatures then you are fine. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:30, 22 December 2019 (UTC)