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This is the current revision of this page, as edited by Gisbert K (talk | contribs) at 14:48, 18 February 2020. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this version.

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:41, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Annelien Van Wauwe

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Annelien Van Wauwe
Annelien Van Wauwe

* ... that clarinetist Annelien Van Wauwe (pictured) recorded rhapsodies for clarinet by both Claude Debussy and Manfred Trojahn? Source: [1]

  • Reviewed: to come
  • Comment: This is a first nomination for a user who is not yet familiar with DYK.

Created by Gisel (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 21:55, 12 January 2020 (UTC).

  • : how about hooking to the yoga? E.g. that she uses yoga breathing to enhance her clarinet performance? Crum375 (talk) 23:03, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
  • First link in the reflist is broken, you should verify that all links are working. Crum375 (talk) 23:11, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
  • How about mentioning in the article's lead that she has been called "one of the most fascinating and original clarinettists of her generation"[2] by the Borletti-Buitoni Trust? Crum375 (talk) 23:31, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Nominator speaking. I reduced the number of icons, - they are for the bot. First question: because many wind instruments do that. Second: such links from organizations come and go, - we can't check them all the time.
We can't fix them all the time, sure, but you can't submit an article for review with broken links. You can get the wayback archive version for it, or just be on top of it. The first referenced link is still broken as I write this. Crum375 (talk) 00:14, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
Because what does it say about her and her music? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:49, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
If you are addressing the quote from BBT, it is showing notability, which is important on WP, esp. in the lead. Crum375 (talk) 00:16, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
  • : I noticed potential copyvio issue with close paraphrasing, e.g.:

Annelien van Wauwe has been a clarinettist in the Junge Belgische Philhamonie, the Jeugd en Musiekorkest Antwerp, the Niederländisches Jugendorchester and in October 2009 she played in the Orchestre de Paris under Christoph Eschenbach. A few months later she became principal clarinet of the Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester and took part in a tour with Herbert Blomstedt.

— Article

Annelien van Wauwe has been a clarinettist in the Junge Belgische Philhamonie, the Jeugd en Musiekorkest Antwerp, the Niederländisches Jugendorchester and in October 2009 she played in the Orchestre de Paris under Christoph Eschenbach. A few months later she became the principal clarinet of the Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester and took part in a tour with Herbert Blomstedt.

— Source
This definitely needs addressing. Crum375 (talk) 00:10, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
Gisel, I hope you watch: that needs to be said in your words. - Crum375, I said in the beginning that it's all new for the author, and I'm just the nominator who can't do much about the sources. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:50, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
  • The broken link is fixed. The potential copyvio issue is solved.
  • Value judgments about the artist's achievements, such as those made by the Borletti-Buitoni Trust, are not common in encyclopedic articles. Look here and you dont find: Sabine Meyer, Martin Fröst, Anne-Sophie Mutter, Yehudi Menuhin
  • Yoga: There are no publications about their yoga practices in detail. From an interview I know that she keeps fit through jogging.Gisel (talk) 12:44, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
Comments:
  • I would recommend adding some more meat to the lead. Doesn't have to be very long, but should include the keys or highlights of her bio.
  • There are some refs that are bare URL's or strange numbers. I think they should all be legible so a reader can decide whether to click on them with at least a general idea of the contents (like a title) Green tickY
  • In general I think the article is good enough for DYK, once those minor issues are addressed
Crum375 (talk) 22:52, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
  • If I may add another point, the Instruments section needs a ref. Green tickY Crum375 (talk) 12:55, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
Sure, add what you see, we want to make that articl as good as can be. I pass the ref question to Gisel, but at least reviewed now, Template:Did you know nominations/65 Broadway --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:50, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Green tickY Green tickY Gisel (talk) 17:59, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Biography: I think all important is said.

1. She received an above-average education from several of the best European clarinetists [thanks to the financial means of her father, a wealthy notary].

2. In addition to many other awards, she won the ARD competition in 2012

3. Thanks to her talent and achievements, she found many sponsors.

She seems to have a good agent who organizes about 35 appearances a year for her. But it could also be 60, like Sabine Meyer.Gisel (talk) 18:24, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

I still think the lead is too short. If I am an average WP reader who reads that lead, it doesn't tell me what's different or special about her. All it tells me is that "Annelien Van Wauwe (born 1987) is a Belgian clarinetist who performs internationally as a soloist." But isn't there something special that she is known for? Aren't there any highlights, top achievements in her career so far? The lead should summarize the key features of the article, not just tell us her profession. Crum375 (talk) 23:37, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
While I agree, just to make you understand: the German Wikipedia where this comes from, is the exacti opposite, just the most basic info. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:41, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
Are you suggesting that we should use the German WP MOS instead of ours? Crum375 (talk) 00:24, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
  • I have now expanded the lead section accordingly.Gisel (talk) 03:27, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Great! Can you sneak in a few inline refs for those statements? Green tickY Thanks Crum375 (talk) 03:34, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Checked copyvio, length, creation date, inline sourcing, QPQ, hook well sourced. Thank you for the article and the DYK and for bearing with my comments, DYK good to go. Crum375 (talk) 11:43, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
  • How about this hook? Crum375 (talk) 12:50, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

*ALT: ... that clarinetist Annelien Van Wauwe's (pictured) Yoga breathing exercises resulted in a concerto commissioned for her by composer Wim Henderickx?

It sounds as if you don't know what "commissioned" means, also who is that composer? On top of that I dislike possessive-pictured-than what is possessed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:13, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
I looked at the composer's article: not fit to be linked from the Main page. I have no time right now, or would fix some obvious shortcomings. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:15, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Well, looking at those refs after the statement "This resulted in a commissioned composition for Wim Henderickx, who composed Sutra for her, a clarinet concerto based on breath and meditation.", they don't seem to include Henderickx, so how is that claim supported anyway? (I AGF'ed before) Crum375 (talk) 13:56, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Look the new text Concertos. Better or to much? Gisel (talk) 16:06, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
    • Crum375: More about Yoga and playing clarinet in the 2nd part of this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jnD3-0Cb48&feature=emb_title Gisel (talk) 17:07, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
      • Gisel, that video is very cool, thank you! I saw the changes, and am thinking, now that I understand the she herself commissioned it (with help from the BBT and BBC), how to phrase that yoga hook to make it both hooky as well as correct. If you have any ideas, go ahead and suggest it, I too will try to come up with something. I think a good hook is very important in a DYK. Crum375 (talk) 18:31, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
or this? Crum375 (talk) 20:56, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

*ALT2: ... that international solo clarinetist Annelien Van Wauwe (pictured) had a concerto specially composed to highlight her yoga breathing and meditation?

  • Returning to WP:DYKN until hook issues are resolved. Yoninah (talk) 14:24, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
  • What hook issues do you mean? I revised the article several times after the nomination. I don't see any shortcomings in the article that have yet to be fixed. On the subject of "yoga" everything is said that can be proven by sources.Gisel (talk) 15:14, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
  • @Gisel: Two new hooks (ALT1 and 2) have been proposed. Do you like them? If so, they will have to be reviewed by another editor. Yoninah (talk) 15:39, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
  • ALT1 is now incorporated.Gisel (talk) 06:37, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: I am fine with ALT1's hook in the article, GTG IMO. Crum375 (talk) 21:01, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
then give it a tick, please, or the bot will not see it's approved --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:37, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

ALT1 hook, GTG per above. Crum375 (talk) 03:09, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

  • Sorry, Crum375, but per Rule H2 you are not allowed to review your own hook. We need a different reviewer here. Yoninah (talk) 22:57, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah: am I neutral enough? Lotje (talk) 16:24, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
  • @Lotje: if you didn't contribute substantially to the article, you may certainly review it. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 18:15, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Some of the awards listed do not appear to be cited. It is possible to either list a cite by each line, or have one cite apply to multiple rows or items in the list? Flibirigit (talk) 23:23, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
  • There are only reports on some award ceremonies, see ref 11, 13, 14 and 15. For the other prizes, ref 17 applies, these are biographies in which the prizes are listed. Is that ok?Gisel (talk) 09:54, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
  • In that case, it would be best to put [17] at the end of each line which does not have another citation. There would be no ambiguity as to the source. In the eduction section, it looks like the sentence "Then, in addition to completing her studies in Berlin and Trossingen until 2012, she began her career as a solo clarinetist" is not cited. Can that be combined into the existing citation in the same paragraph? Otherwise the article looks to be in good condition. Flibirigit (talk) 16:57, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Citation: done
  • Education: The sentence non cited I have deleted. Gisel (talk) 20:44, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
  • It appears that the hook comes from the sentence "Her yoga breathing and meditation resulted in a specially commissioned concerto by composer Wim Henderickx" in the Concertos section. As per DYK rules, there must be a citation at the end of this sentence. It would be easiest to duplicate the citation that comes with the subsequent sentence. That looks to be the only remaining issue. Flibirigit (talk) 22:15, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
  • done (no remaining issues) Gisel (talk) 06:45, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
  • ALT1 is approved. Hook is interesting, properly cited and mentioned in the article, and verified with the source. Photo is properly licensed, clear at a low resolution, and used in the article. All other DYK criteria are met. Flibirigit (talk) 06:51, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Regrettably, portions of the second paragraph under Recordings is an overly close paraphrase of the review (is there a reason we don't mention the reviewer's name or publication?), and the "clear and bright" sound refers not to the artist but to the "recorded sound" of the CD in general. Given that this is the second instance of close paraphrasing mentioned in the course of the review, I'm going to ask Nikkimaria, our DYK expert in copyvio and close paraphrasing, to take a closer look at the article as a whole. I did do some copyediting of this section, which I think improves the flow. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:20, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Corresponding corrections to the text have been made. Gisel (talk) 06:50, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
  • My opinion: If an author has carefully considered the choice of terms and attributes he uses, a person who quotes or references him should also use these terms and attributes, because the meaning of so-called synonyms or only similar terms always is a little falsified. Quotation marks may have to be used. Gisel (talk) 08:05, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
  • If the same choice of terms and attributes is to be made, then quotation marks must be used, as this sort of description is rarely unparaphraseable - the phrase I just quoted in the article for example could readily be reworked. Looks like otherwise though the paraphrasing has been improved. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:38, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Restoring tick per Flibirigit's review and Nikkimaria's confirmation that the paraphrasing is no longer too close. I have copyedited the Recordings paragraph after the recent edits by the nominator to remove the close paraphrasing. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:43, 16 February 2020
  • done, thanks to everyone! Gisel (talk) 14:47, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
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