Talk:Chandraseniya Kayastha Prabhu

Arbitrary heading

The information is incomplete. Highest population of CKPs is in Thane, second highest and third highest are Baroda and Indore.. I'm not sure which among the two is second and which is third.

CGupte

Needs an Update

Please update this article I think more information is to be added... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.128.108 (talk) 09:04, 20 February 2009 (UTC) --Its Shreyas!!! 10:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC) If the person does not even know what the word CKP stands for I wonder what makes him think that he is qualified to comment on it.Agreed that many refrences may be found lacking ,but than the same is also true of a large body of human knowledge which stretches back to Vedic period.One must understand that most knowledge in India was passed orally. I have not contributed to this article but it would be better if the critic were to do some research on his own and add useful information rather than just criticizing------ Ajay Chaubal

What to say? But I think that Baji Prabhu Deshpande was CKP & he was great worrior. As well most of the CKP's born as KSHATRIYA. And everything there is just like brahmins. But the only difference is CKPs eat meat as they are KSHATRIYA & brahmins don't. Now a days some of the brahmins also eat meat. Then what will be the difference between these two communities? All the rituals performed in both communities are same.

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What is the present population of CKPs in various places? 203.212.219.143 22:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC) R Vaidya

The last communal census of 1941 put their population in all provinces together at roughly 25,000. If one uses guesstimate method then today it should be around 80-90,000 in total. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.61.162.234 (talk) 07:09, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

==

Thanks a lot for this kind of a valuable information on CKP. It is indeed very encouraging and interesting to know so much about your origin and ethnicity. I am a CKP too!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.4.15 (talk) 21:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

What a wonderful Information....I am a CKP but did notknow so many details.wortj reading....Arun Pagnis...Architect —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.128.170.97 (talk) 11:39, 6 March 2008 (UTC) unsigned comment added by 61.17.198.149 (talk) 14:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Great information. The only thing is the great Baji Prabhu Deshpande is named without any posting any posting. Please find out some post as even a small actor has been named with his post. And what about this great man! Baji Prabhu belongs to Pradhan-Deshpande Surname and his name can be scripted first as he is the oldest in the analogy and the real Big name please try out and research more to avoid such small problems. Ajinkya Ajit Deshpandelink title —Preceding

SIR, I JUST WANT REFER THAT IF A PERSON BORN FROM KSHATRIYA CLAN, AND SOME ONE DISTROYED HIS WHOLE FAMILY AND ONLY CHILDREN ARE SAVED BY A BRAHMIN (PRIEST) THEN THE PERSON WHO KILLED ALL THE MEMBER OF THE CLAN ASKED OR DEMANDED THAT THE CHILDREN SHOULD WORK WITH THE HELP OF SWORD AND PEN, THE CLAN OF CHILD WILL CHANGED IF YES WHY? AND I TOO WANT TO ASK THAT THE SON OF CHANDRASEN "KAYATHA" ACTED AS A KING SO IT SEEM THAT HE PERFORM ACT OF A KING AND KAYASTHA SON "SOMRAJ" ALSO ACT AS A KING THEN IT SEEM THAT IT IS CLEAR THAT THEY ACTED AS RAJPUT KING, AND THER DESCENDANT ALSO ACTED AS RAJPUT KING SO IT SEEM TO BE CLEAR THAT THEY ARE RAJPUT BY BIRTH AND BY PROFESSION.

I JUST WANT TOO REFER THAT THE BOY BORN IN THE CLAN OF KSHATRIYA WILL ALWAYS BE A KSHATRIYA.AND TELL ME IF A BOY BORN IN A CLAN OF KSHATRIYA IF HE BECOMES A DOCTER OR A TEACHER HIS CLAN WHOULD BE CHANGED BY ACTING AS A DOCTER OR A TEACHER I DONT THING SO. A BOY BORN IN A CLAN REMAIN IN THAT CLAN TILL DEATH ACCORDING TO HINDUISM THER ARE FOUR CLAN ONLY ( BRAHMIN, KSHATRIA ,VAISH ,SUDRA )SO A BOY BORN IN A KSHATRIA (RAJPUT) CLAN HIS CLAN WILL NEVER GOING TO BE CHANGED WHAT EVER HAPPENS OR WHAT EVRE HAPPEND TO HIS FAMILY HE WILL ALWAYS REMAIN A KSHATRIYA (RAJPUT). "SO CHANDRASENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU ARE THE DESCENDANT OF HAIYAHA RAJPUT CLAN AND WILL ALWAYS BE A RAJPUT KSHATRIYA NOT KAYASTHA "

THE TRIBE OF CHANDRASENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU "DIDNOT" BORN IN THE VEDIC TRIBE OF KAYASTHA "(THE KAYASTHA TRACE THEIR GENEALOGY FROM ADI PURUSH SHRI CHITRAGUPTAJI MAHARAJ)" AND CHANDRASHENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU BORN IN THE ROYAL CLAN OF HAIHAYA/HAIHEYA/HEIHEYA RAJPUT CLAN SO THEY ARE "RAJPUT" NOT KAYASTHA. AND CHANDARSENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU IS A ARYAN CLAN.

MOST IMPORTANT:-

NOTE:-CHANDRASENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU ARE ARYAN CLAN CHANDRAVANSHI RAJPUT CLAN (HAIHAYA RAJPUT CLAN).

NOTE:-CHANDRASEN IS THE SON OF KING SAHASTRARJUN ALSO KNOWS TO BE KARTAVIRYA ARJUN OR SAHASTRABAHOO A HAIHAYA RAJPUT SO HIS DESCENDANT WILL ALSO BE A HAIHAYA RAJPUT.

NOTE:-ABOUT ORIGIN CKP CHANDRASENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU ARE "RAJPUT ARYAN NOT KAYASTHA",BECAUSE CHENDRASENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU BORN IN AN ARYAN CLAN OF HAIHAYA RAJPUT. BUT KAYASTHA TRACE THER GENEALOGY FROM ADI PURUSH SHRI CHITRAGUPTAJI MAHARAJ.

"ANDCHENDRASENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU COMMUNITY TRACE THER GENEALOGY FROM RAJPUT KSHATRIYA SAHASTRARJUN AND HIS SON CHANDRASENAND HIS SON KAYASTHA SO IT SEEM TO BE VERY CLEAR THAT CHANDRASENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU IS A ARYAN RAJPUT CLAN".

IT IS ALSO THAT CHANDRASEN SON KAYASTHA ACTED AS KING AND RULED KASMIR AND MANY PART OF CENTRAL INDIA AND KAYASTHA SON ALSO RULED KASMIR AND MANY PART OF CENTRAL INDIA AND IT IS ALSO THAT CHANDRASENYA KAYASTHA PRABHU COMMUNITY ALSO ACTED AS KING AND SOMETIME DURING THE ADVENT OF BUDHISM,THE LAST CKP KINGDOM WAS LOST. SO IT SEEM THAT CKP COMMUNITY ALSO ACTED AS RAJPUT KSHATRIYA COMMUNITY BY ACTING AS A RULER OR KING.

SAGAR JKLQWE54@GMAIL.COM sonu 14:35, 25 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagarsinghdevre (talk • contribs)

social status

I have done a deep study of castes from Maharashtra.

Kindly refrain from making derogatory libelous statements against any community. Do NOT confuse CKPs with Kayasthas from north. All Kayasthas hold different status and the status differed depending on region.

In general, the article(wikipedia) is very biased against CKPs. Based on social status they are more comparable to brahmins and brahmins(priests including Shankaracharyas) do consider them a very high caste(see below). They are closer to Brahmins than to Kshyatriyas(see below).

1)http://archive.org/stream/ethnographicalno00chanrich/ethnographicalno00chanrich_djvu.txt mentiones the Kshyatriya status and the decend from Chandrasen makes them Rajvanshi(royal).

2)The CKPs even today follow the munj(thread ceremony) and have gotras from Rishis Reference:above and also the printed book cited in wikipedia

3)The word Prabhu means Lord (Reference: Marathi dictionary). This indicates higher status by itself.

4)Not as proof but just a general statement: I have personally attended thread ceremonies (upanayanams) of several CKPs. The only other communities that has upanayanams(munj in marathi) are the brahmins and saraswats in Maharashtra.

5) 'Arranged Marriages' between brahmins and CKPs and saraswats's are quite common these days. (Reference: Check any marriage bureau listings specific to maharashtra and see the pattern]

6)Shankaracharya, in a letter in the Bombay gazette has clearly clairified the rajvanshi Khyatriya status.{ref:Bombay Gazette]

7)Please do not confuse them with north indian Kayasthas. They were originally called Prabhus [Bombay Gazette] - not kayasthas.

8) CKPs are considered as a mix between brahmin and Kshatriyas [see B Gazatte] due to the history of Royalty(Chandrasen) as well as being vedadhikaris after the thread ceremony.

Other than brahmins and saraswat's in maharashtra, CKPs are the only caste in which thread ceremony(called munj in marathi) is done. {references: maratha history and well as above references and common knowledge in maharashtra]

9)Many instances of warriors like Baji Prabhu Deshpande. American Engineer MS (talk) 17:19, 1 April 2012 (UTC) American Engineer MS (talk) 17:28, 1 April 2012 (UTC) American Engineer MS (talk) 18:14, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Recent CHanges

All the recent changes and the convinient deletion of content looks like attmpt at hiding a some facts for glorifying some individuals.

FOJ12345 (talk) 07:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC) However, Biologically it has been proven that CKPs & Kayathas from North are same and only mythologies defer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.247.76.31 (talk) 06:57, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Redirect

"CKP" shouldn't redirect here automatically. Of all the many things "CKP" could stand for, this is definitely not even remotely close to being the most general. "Certificate in Knowledge of Policing" seems to show up most commonly on Google searches. 62.189.73.197 (talk) 09:03, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Chandraseniya Kayastha Prabhu/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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Hi! I am Mrs. Supriya Pradhan, situated in Mumbai. Reading thru the info on The "CKP's ", I found it quite interesting and informative. May be as some opinions expressed, mention the insufficiency of the contents but nevertheless a lot of the information does sound correct from what has been heard or read untill now. I think it nacesary that we CKP's shiuld forward this to every known CKP for reference and ask for more information if available. Like I would like to add a rare surname which is my mother's maiden surname and the family is from Baroda. It is "BUDHWARKAR". This family originaly had the name 'Potnis' which got changed to Budhwarkar when they were given the Vatan of Budhgaon, some where in Maharashtra by the then King of Baroda (not Gaikwad). That's how the family got its surname. This story was told to me by my grand-father's uncle i.e. great- grandfather. Presently there are only 3 families (cousin's) living 1 in Rajkot, 1 in Mumbai and 1 in Thane. My mother's Grandfather had also severed at the court of Raje Sayajirao Gaikwad as the chief architect to design western styled urban housing for the Middle - Class in Baroda. My grandfather ( mother's father) was the Chief of Electricity Operations and was assigned the task of setting up the Baroda Radio Station. Another surname known to our family is 'Rajapurkar', as my husband's aunt hailed from this family from Ahmedabad. But I am not sure if any male descendant of this family now exists. I will sure try to mail this site to as many CKP's as possible, asking them for their feedback. Good Effort. Keep it up. SUPRIYA PRADHAN

Last edited at 05:14, 9 July 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 11:15, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Turning into a mess

I am tempted to revert this article to this version because subsequent contributions have made a general mess of things, introducing poor sources, tangential points and possible synthesis. @Jonathansammy: I don't understand how someone who has been editing for so long can make so many simple mistakes but I find myself cleaning up after you pretty much every time your name pops up. It is as if you are still unaware of WP:REFPUNCT and how to cite stuff. - Sitush (talk) 12:35, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

There is one problem with this version. The surname patil is generally not part of ckp surnames. SP2705 (talk) 23:36, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Surnames removed

Some surnames removed why so surnames section SP2705 (talk) 13:27, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Surnames in caste articles are almost always removed. They are rarely unique to the caste, the lists are WP:INDISCRIMINATE in that pretty much any surname can be adopted by anyone, they add nothing for the reader except to mislead them into stereotyping, and they attract a lot of unsourced edits by clueless people. There really does have to be an extremely good reason to include such things. - Sitush (talk) 13:51, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Its quite disappointing to add names one day and remove on other day. SP2705 (talk) 04:07, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Only people belonging to this clan can clarify. SP2705 (talk) 04:08, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

SP2705 , I agree with Sitush in this particular case. I am a Deshashtha Brahmin (not in your CKP 'clan' as per your 'requirement') but will say something anyways. As you may know, due to similar occupations of CKPs/Brahmins in the 19th century (both castes being literate) , CKPs and Marathi Brahmins share many common last names like Kulkarni, Phadanvis, Apte, etc.. Secondly, anyone can go to court and change their name. So adding 'typical' last names for any caste is pointless. So what Sitush means (IMHO) is that based on last names, people make assumptions about their caste - which is incorrect. Personally, I think the last name category is completely useless. But your edit today would not have been deleted if you had given the proper source for your information. Unsourced edits are not allowed. Acharya63 (talk) 06:27, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

I strongly agree for removal of surname section. SP2705 (talk) 08:44, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Too much spam(unsourced edits) on the meaningless surnames section going on. Removed it as per talk. Acharya63 (talk) 08:51, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Should we remove the surnames section?

Reasons: 1. No value as pointed out by Sitush. 2. People come and frequently edit it(add, remove) names based on their personal knowledge - obviously with good intentions - but without citing any sources. 3. Many of these names are also found in other communities (eg. Marathi Brahmins). 4. Most other equivalent articles on Wikipedia do not have a 'surname' section. Acharya63 (talk) 08:25, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree that no mention should be given for surnames should ever for any topic. SP2705 (talk) 08:43, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Narrative flow

Wikipedia articles are intended to have some sort of narrative flow rather than being an indiscriminate collection of information. I realise that this is sometimes tricky but simply gathering together every mention of a community and throwing it into the article without any thought for its contextual meaning really does make things difficult to read and, well, somewhat pointless. That is one reason for my recent removals - the information may have been ok in places as information but there was no real point to including it.

My removal of the Gail Omvedt stuff has a slightly more complex rationale. Despite her very one-sided take on things, and the often one-sided nature of the journal in which she was published, Omvedt is a de facto reliable source. However, as well as the above issue, there are big problems with reproducing detailed information from censuses of the Raj era. Some of those have been addressed in Census of India prior to independence but Omvedt herself, in the source that was given here, says for example that "There is difficulty in using such Census data, particularly because the various categories tended to be defined in different ways in different years, and different criteria were used in different provinces for classifying the population. Nonetheless, the overall trend is clear ..." As such, if there was any point to be made, it would be better just to use her conclusion, with the stated proviso, rather than fill the article with dubious figures and no proviso at all. Of course, there would be no reason in even using that conclusion unless it has some point to it specifically with reference to the CKP. - Sitush (talk) 06:03, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

OK. I will go through the sources Omvedt and the other source(the other author) to get the conclusion if it related to the CKP people rather than using numbers.

Omvedt has also published it in a book.

However, I still did not understand why you allowed similar table with similar values to remain on the deshastha brahmin page.(of 1911) for at least 6 years. It also had hard numbers and no conclusion.

Also, should I look for a better source for the Shankaracharya letter? I personally know this is true because I read it in some marathi books (but they are very old and hard to obtain) but we can find another source.

Acharya63 (talk) 07:16, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

I can't monitor everything. Please can you read WP:THREAD regarding how to indent your posts. - Sitush (talk) 07:28, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

temporary removal

They are mainly concentrated in Maharashtra. They may be considered part of the broader functional group called Kayastha which modern scholars opine is not a "caste" but a group composed of distinct castes of different varna origins (based on the region of origin), each of different social and ritual status. For example, the CKP, who are "Chandraseniya" or "Chandraseni" are of distinct origin and status from the Chitraguptavanshi Kayasthass of north-India and Bengal. Another difference given by Hayden J. Bellenoit who only discusses the north-Indian group in depth is that the north-Indian (Chitragupta) group usually held only lower level administrative and scribal(writer) posts unlike the Prabhus(CKP) and other groups who were more prominent. In addition, the north-Indian Kayasthas did not hold any military posts unlike the CKPs in the medieval era. The others [non-CKP] have subdivisions that again vary in Varna, origin and ritual status based on the subgroup whereas the CKP do not have any subdivisions.

User Karma Calculation is vandalizing the page, removing reference to Pathare Prabhu. He is obviously a sockpuppet of Srivastava, north Indian Kayastha. I am requesting editors who originally added this content to review. I do not have enough knowledge of hindu castes to debate this. Karama Calculation refuses to discuss and keeps vandalizing. MyrddinGaius (talk) 08:39, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

I looked at the Srivastava page and it would explain why he keeps vandalizing. Suggestion:

We can change it to one line " They are mainly concentrated in Maharashtra. They may be considered part of the broader functional group called Kayastha ".MyrddinGaius (talk) 05:38, 18 May 2020 (UTC)