Talk:T–V distinction

Hindi informal plural

I'm pretty sure that the informal Hindi plural is tum rather than aap. Aside from that, plural informal tum and formal aap often get -log added to distinguish from singular forms, thus the Hindi paradigm would look like this: very informal singular: tū informal singular: tum formal singular: āp informal plural: tum(log) formal plural: āp(log) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.157.44.34 (talk • contribs) 11:43, 29 March 2006

Catalan

There's some controversy regarding vostè/vostès, despite its widespread usage. Being a calque from Spanish, many consider it doesn't belong at all into Catalan. Also, vostè is more common in bigger, industrialised settlemens, with larger immigrated population, while vós is prevalent in the countryside, which would seem to support the notion that vós is the proper, original Catalan usage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.33.197.99 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 30 March 2007

Sylheti

There is a huge error in the Sylheti section of the table. I have no clue how to fix this; would someone please be a kind fellow and help fix it? Thanks. Victionarier (talk) 12:27, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

In Italian it is the 3rd person singular, which in the 20th century has almost entirely replaced the 2nd person plural

The article does not seem to acknowledge, at least for the Italian language, the use of the 3rd person singular, which in the 20th century has almost entirely replaced the 2nd person plural. A few non-exhaustive examples:

"You are" (singular, informal) --> "Tu sei" (2nd singular)

"You are" (singular, formal before 20th century) --> "Voi siete" (2nd plural) or "Lei è" / "Ella è" (3rd singular)

"You are" (singular, formal since 20th century) --> almost exclusively "Lei è" (3rd singular)

"You are" (plural, informal) --> "Voi siete" (2nd plural)

"You are" (plural, formal before 20th century) --> "Loro sono" / "Essi sono" / "Esse sono" (3rd plural)

This of course applies to personal pronouns in accusative and dative forms:

"I see you" (singular, informal) --> "Ti vedo" (2nd singular)

"I see you" (singular, formal before 20th century) --> "Vi vedo" (2nd plural) or "La vedo" (3rd singular)

"I see you" (singular, formal since 20th century) --> almost exclusively "La vedo" (3rd singular)

"I promise you" (singular, informal) --> "Ti giuro" (2nd singular)

"I promise you" (singular, formal before 20th century) --> "Vi giuro" (2nd plural) or "Le giuro" (3rd singular)

"I promise you" (singular, formal since 20th century) --> almost exclusively "Le giuro" (3rd singular)

And it applies to possessive adjectives and pronouns:

"Your" (informal, singular for "of you") --> "Il tuo", "La tua", "I tuoi", "Le tue" (2nd singular)

"Your" (informal, singular for "of you", before 20th century) --> "Il vostro", "La vostra", "I vostri", "Le vostre" (2nd plural), or "Il suo", "La sua", "I suoi", "Le sue" (3rd singular)

"Your" (informal, singular for "of you", since 20th century) --> almost exclusively "Il suo", "La sua", "I suoi", "Le sue" (3rd singular)

"Your" (informal, plural for "of you") --> "Il vostro", "La vostra", "I vostri", "Le vostre" (2nd plural)

"Your" (formal, plural for "of you", before 20th century) --> "Il loro", "La loro", "I loro", "Le loro" (3rd plural)

The use of the 3rd person singular comes from the simplification of more complex forms such as "La Vostra Signoria" and "Vostra Eccellenza" (or other titles).

Historically, many complex combinations were possible. For example it occurred that a priest would use the 2nd person plural to speak to a commoner, and the commoner would reply using the 3rd person singular: a glorious example of this is the dialogue between Renzo and Don Abbondio in the second chapter of The Betrothed (Manzoni novel) (where one of the topic is the intrinsic violence of the language, and how the language can be used by those in power to oppress commoners).

Ignisāra (talk) 10:07, 8 July 2020 (UTC)