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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Pogogunner (talk | contribs) at 06:58, 30 December 2006. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Final Words

Should the content of Saddam's final statement go into this article, a different Hussein article, or a completely new one? I find the content of the letter relevant but I am too inexperienced to know where this important piece of history would fit in. Nobuyuki 05:53, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be appropriate to place here, and then it may be moved/copied to other articles as necessary.Viperphantom 06:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
One article, either this one or the main Saddam article, quoted him as saying the Arabic for "Allah is great". That always strikes me as Judeo-Christian-centrism. Maybe a Muslim reading this can help out. "Allah" simply means "God" ("the only God"), does it not? Then it should be translated as "God is great". Do you get what I'm getting at? Wahkeenah 06:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Protection?

Someone should request a semi-lock for this article because it's bound to be vandalised. I would do myself, but I don't know how. Janipewter 03:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Admins usually lock pages, as I'm one myself on another wiki, but I'm not one here. Go here to request protection of a page. Øřêōş 03:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I too believe this page should be semi-protected to stop people from posting stupid things
I am not sure. Many contributions are made by anonymous users. Rockvee 04:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I just removed some vandlism so I think a lock might be wise 205.250.227.87 05:01, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes we are all watching for vandalism, I'm editing heavily too, no need for locking right now. 65.13.3.52 05:03, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am also watching for vandalism, we'll keep them at bay! Viperphantom 05:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ok, all hang out too, helping where I can 205.250.227.87 05:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yea, there definitely is vandalism going on, keep an eye out everyone. Thanks to whoever removed the "saddam.exe" Viperphantom 05:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Please do lock. When Irwin died, some joker put porn on his page. Geobeedude 05:21, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Asking them on IRC now to have it locked down a bit.--BC 06:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I will concur with the lock. As much good as anonymous users can do for these pages, the potential for vandalism is higher; I just saw some vandalism removed just now before I was able to get to it (damn 56k...), but I'd prefer if it didn't need to be removed in the first place. --Lord Kelvin 06:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yea, lock is a good idea. Thanks admins. Viperphantom 06:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to be semi-locked now. :) --BC 06:53, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

The entire scope of the article is covered under Saddam's main page. I think this needs to be merged or put up for deletion. Rrten00 03:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be appropriate to merge the article with the Trial of Saddam page, but not with Saddam's main page. Viperphantom 04:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with you. There isn't a good reason to treat the execution as a separate entity from the trials; it's the conclusion of that process. Giving it a section in that article still allows nice hyperlinks to the specific section The Monster 04:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Let's keep this separate until it settles down. Much easier to edit that way. --Hopex 04:57, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
We don't know how events in Iraq will proceed. The execution of the warrant could lead to huge backfire which would make a separate article useful. If it is merely an event of one day then it should be merged with the trial but not Saddam overall, whose article is already too long, and the details of his trial and death unimportant to his overall life. 195.137.93.230 05:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Saddam Hussein

I think this should be a separate article; the Saddam Hussein article is already far too long, and this is a momentous enough event in his life that it deserves its own article. Minor details in the biography are fine, but the whole story should be here, for clarity. -Hobbularmodule 03:43, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Lennon's death --Gracenotes T § 03:44, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, the main reason for deletion was a bit different, but an article on someone's death is still non-notable, in my opinion, unless there was something about it outside of the context of the person who died. Gracenotes T § 03:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The execution was unremarkable, in the sense that there was (apparently) no deviation from due process. Still, the article is here now, I would suggest giving the article some time, in case the event itself proves notable, otherwise merge. Peter Grey 03:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hm. Come to think of it, it may do the wiki good to have a temporary "hub" wherein content can be organized during this hectic period. If nothing precipitates from his death except for several sparse protests, merge into the Saddam Hussein article; and if not, move this article to something like Saddam Hussein's excecution, or even Saddam Hussein's death, and note non-standard events that occur. But you're right, the primary focus should not be merging it, but writing it. I suppose I was being a bit too immediatist. Thanks for responding. --Gracenotes T § 04:02, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I really have a hard time thinking of a reason this would ever need to be a separate article. --Lukobe 04:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this page should exist as a separate article; it is a significant enough event to deserve its own page.Viperphantom 04:17, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

References

I recieved the info on the two locations for the execution and the burial info from watching CNN and Fox news.

If you post something, add references. --Ssault 03:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please reference the missing references. --newclear 03:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed a reference to "FOX News Alert--TV" because it was neither specific nor readily verifiable. Please review Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Verifiability for information on the kinds of sources needed for information in articles. For breaking events, alerts from well-established web-based news organizations are adequate until more detailed information is available. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:28, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think the quote "The United States is braced for lashback violence due to Hussein's execution." should be removed, because I could not find a reference to that statement on the source listed. Viperphantom 04:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Where is the location of this zone they keep referring to ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Berniethomas68 03:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See Green Zone. Picaroon 04:21, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stub tag

I think the article has developed enough that the stub tag is no longer needed. I'll remove it...--Tiberius47 04:26, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep a watch on this article

It's very likely it will be used by the media (as it has been done before) to show the speed and accuracy the article is created edited etc, I'm moving the moving tags to the talk page for now we can settle that later 65.13.3.52 04:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Really, when did he die?

A lot of reports I've seen list the death as 6:05 AM, but this article says 5:55 AM. Most sources claim that the death was shortly before 6AM, but the main article states the death was after 6 AM, last time I checked. Øřêōş 04:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC) [reply]

He died about 10 minutes before 6 am. By sharia law they had to have him hanged before the start of the religious celbration that starts at 6. 65.13.3.52 04:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, I have it at 0305 GMT, or 6:05 AM. Either we or CNN has it wrong. And I'm not betting on CNN. Cougar Draven 06:25, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fox News originally reported it as being at 6, however they changed it to be between 5:30 and 6. --KCMODevin 06:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC)Insert non-formatted text here[reply]

Sources

I see a lot of "citation needed" tags - if you're going to add information which you have received from a TV broadcast etc, at least try to include a link to the article on the broadcasters website. Janipewter 04:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Brother-in-law and aide not killed

CNN is now reporting that the brother-in-law and other aide were not killed and are still in US Custody. That the Iraqi Government set aside this day just for the execution of Saddam. Did anyone else hear this or know of a weblink to this?209.209.140.19 04:58, 30 December 2006 (UTC)amberly[reply]

I heard that on CNN as well, their source was an Iraqi official that they recently talked to. Viperphantom 04:59, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
BBC also reports this. We've already removed the misinformation more than once. --Hopex 05:00, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CNN's website and the Guardian cite Al Arabiya as saying that all three were hanged. AP is also quoting state TV as saying all three hanged.Reverse Gear 05:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Well... they're wrong! They will be executed after next Thursday apparently. --Hopex 05:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, the website is not up to date. The report referred to was very recent, and they probably have not had time to update their websites.Viperphantom 05:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unprotect this article

Please unprotect this article for now, All of us (editors) are here reverting. It's best to let the community participate right now as awareness is high. Achille 05:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

its unlocked now...one of the admins must have heard you :) Viperphantom 05:13, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Someone just locked it back in but added a boilerplater too, I'm removing it for the moment. Achille 05:31, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this page should be semi-protected to stop people from posting stupid things. and too keep people that have a account only to write things

At least protect this against IP Vandals --KCMODevin 06:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Naming

To ensure the the same name is in use, refer to Hussein as Saddam in the article. Refer to Saddam Hussein and Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming. I don't beleive a consensus has been made, but everything remains at "Saddam." - Idono 05:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eid ul-Adha

Saddam Hussein's execution took place minutes before Iraqis began celebrating Eid ul-Adha.

I strongly contest the factual accuracy of this statement. Islamic days begin at sundown, not sunrise. I thought only Shi'a Muslims in Iraq went with December 30 as the start of Eid (Sunnis went with December 31). A source on this statement would be appreciated. -- tariqabjotu 05:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is true that Islamic days begin at sundown, but I am not sure as to the differences between Shi'a and Sunni celebrations.Viperphantom 05:26, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Correct, the execution took place the day the celebration began, but before the actual celebrations began. Achille 05:28, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I changed the statement to...

...as many Iraqis began celebrating Eid ul-Adha...

That removes the impression that Eid starts in the morning (because it doesn't) and that everyone in Iraq is celebrating Eid at the same time (as that is not necessarily true). It also removes the overly precise minutes before bit. -- tariqabjotu 05:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Come ON!

I wonder if the phrase "No mention of a retrial using Saddam Impersonators has been made" would count as vandalism if I added it. :) ~ PHDrillSergeant...§ 05:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not quite sure what your getting at. It's definetely a not uncommon view that Saddam's trial was illegal or inproper for a variety of reasons including the view Saddam should have been regarded as a POW. Check out Trial of Saddam Hussein Nil Einne 05:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Libya's leader Muammar al-Gaddafi described Saddam's Trial as illegal (باطلة). As a prisoner of war, international conventions prohibit his trial. Qaddafi added that America and Britain must be put on trial in this matter.
Let's see - Saddam didn't get fair trials before Iraqi judges but the Bulgarian nurses in Libya did get fair trials before Libyan judges who refused to hear scientific evidence from anyone but fellow Libyans? Qaddafi is a loudmouth. Simesa 06:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article is too hot to handle at the moment, but if someone gets a chance, can you put links around the reporters names? Chadlupkes 05:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

funny edit?

i just saw this under the courtroom picture in this article

"Saddam, as he is sentenced to death by butt sex hanging."

laughed abit, but people doing this sugggest a lock being put on this article as stated above

(PAuLw1985 05:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Threat to US

I strongly disagree that anyone is suggesting that there is a threat to the mainland United States. The Fox article mentioned under responses makes no mention of attacks on US soil. I had changed it so it referred only to violence in Iraq, but someone changed it back. Comments anyone? Viperphantom 05:34, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pages like this get changed so often, with so much vandalism, that things go awry. I wouldn't worry too much about it. In a week or so it will settle down. Personally, I feel Wikipedia should not bother with ongoing events, given that it's an encyclopedia not a news aggregator, but that's just one guy's view. Reverse Gear 05:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree, it seemed that someone just speculated that. However I do know that a letter released by the Baath party made the case that saddam is really being killed by the current administration, not by the iraqis and that the administration should expect reprisals. Achille 05:37, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, there hasn't been any mention, so far, in what I've seen, that there is any threat here in the the US. I've heard much about the security being tightened in Iraq, but nothing here in the US.Idono 05:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Photographs

When they become available, should photographs of the hanging be placed into the article? Steviedpeele 05:47, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As long as the copyrights allow, I think they absolutely should be. Viperphantom 05:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Half-brother and aide

Does anyone have a source for the executions for these two occuring next Thursday? The reference in the article states that it might occur on Saturday. Idono 06:03, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind. It didn't make much sense, considering it is Saturday already in Iraq. I have found another reference that states those executions will take place after the holiday. Idono 06:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bandar

Is the Bandar that Saddam's book is to go to the same as his co-defendent, Awad Bandar? If it is his cousin as mentioned in the article, then it is not the Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud currently cited because he is AKA Bandar Bush. Mbrewer 06:09, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm wondering about this myself. I edited the statement slightly about 20 minutes ago, adding "likely referring to" to the beginning, and cleaning up the grammar a little. Maybe it should read "possibly referring to co-defendant Awad Bandar, or his cousin (name unknown)"... Electrode 06:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the mention of Bandar should be struck from the article entirely. Google and Wikipedia reveal no one named Bandar that is a cousin of Saddam's AFAICT. I'm removing the mention in whole. Revert at will. Mbrewer 06:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if he did in fact say that it should be given to "Bandar", the reference should stay, though with no evidence to support the cousin theory (which seems to have originated here), the speculation over "Bandar's" identity should in fact be removed. I will attempt to do so if no one else has already. Electrode 06:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a citation for the whole give-it-to-Bandar thing? Mbrewer 06:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Allāhu Akbar"

The source cited doesn't say this at all, it only mentions that "Saddam refused to wear a hood over his head" and he "did make a statement before being executed but he refused to say yet what it was". Are there any reliable sources that state that Saddam yelled "Allāhu Akbar!" before he died? Khoikhoi 06:17, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Reuters reported that he did say that. The link is too long to put here, but it's the story on the front page of the news section. Viperphantom 06:20, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Can you please provide the URL? Khoikhoi 06:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fox News and their sources are saying he screamed "God is Great" before he died. They are also saying he struggled when he was taken from his cell. --KCMODevin 06:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps this should be removed until confirmed. I doubt his last words were in English and should AT LEAST be quoted as he spoke them with translations. Mbrewer 06:49, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nicer words?

I feel a little hostility in the article. Appreciative of his death? What about the other half of the nation that loved him, where are reports on that?

Not sure about 'the other half of the nation that loved him', but I do agree that for the sake of appropriate impartiality and simple factual accuracy we should be careful not to:
1) quote only one news agency prominently (getting a bit tired of seeing FOX quoted as 'gospel'!),
2) report only one 'side' or interpretation of the events (the whole reporting of what actually happened at the execution - Saddam's demeanor, etc, is open to biased interpretation for political gain, for example, and we should be alert to that according to the sources reporting it), and
3) use prose that is un-encyclopaedic and expressing personal viewpoints or prejudices. - 82.152.178.173 06:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well said! I'll see what I can do. This is supposed to be a place of reference, not interpretation. Viperphantom 06:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have since removed the quote about Saddam looking like a "broken man," because it was the opinion of a single Iraqi official, and open to bias. The other quote about him being calm however is more of an observation, not a personal belief, so I kept it. Hope that helps a little....Viperphantom 06:53, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect statement in related article

The article Halabja poison gas attack says Saddam was not on trial for gassing the Kurds. Is this correct? Simesa 06:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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