Talk:XFL (2020–2023)

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Merge with the original XFL page?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was not merged per prior discussion. Galatz גאליץ^{שיחה Talk} 19:37, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

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Two pages seems redundant. I don't recall any other sports page separating things out like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jidery (talk • contribs) 03:27, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

@Jidery: see the overwhelming consensus to split here Talk:XFL#Separate article for XFL 2020? - Galatz^Talk 04:20, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I'd say separate until it actually begins play. Then it might make sense to have it merge. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 11:58, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. Already discussed. Merging it with an article on its failed incarnation will just bog it down. ViperSnake151  Talk  18:12, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Page move

I started a discussion at Talk:XFL#Requested_move_25_September_2019 which could affect this page - Galatz גאליץ^{שיחה Talk} 15:30, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Globe Life Park use Turf surface for American Football / Soccer venue, not Grass

https://ballparkdigest.com/2019/10/17/globe-life-park-conversion-plans-unveiled/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by S s47 (talk • contribs) 12:24, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

what a mess

Section 2.1.5 states, "Unlike other football leagues, a coin toss is not used to determine who is on offense first; instead, the visiting team is on offense first and home team on defense first for each round, similar to baseball."

However, section 2.2 contradicts that, stating, "The designated home team automatically gets, at the start of the game, to choose to kick off, receive or defer to the second half. There is no coin toss traditionally seen in other football leagues, or any opening scramble that was a hallmark of the original XFL. In the event of overtime, the visiting team will be given the choice of going first or second or selecting which end zone to attack (with the home team getting the other choice)." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Subject Matter Expert Supreme (talk • contribs) 04:26, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Chapter 11 bankruptcy

According to multiple reports on Twitter, the XFL has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. This is different from the bankruptcy that the Alliance of American Football declared, which was Chapter 7. It seems that under Chapter 11 there is an option to just reorganize the company, while Chapter 7 straight up sells off all assets. Does this prove the league has folded? Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:42, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

It appears this is still not the final nail in the coffin. Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:18, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

All player contracts have been terminated (per [1] and other sources) and according to the bankruptcy filing, only 18 employees remain under contract. Still not clear whether these include the eight head coaches, seven of whom were listed as outstanding liabilities in the filing. Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:53, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

All personnel, including players, coaches, office workers, and the commissioner have been let go. Every reliable source describes the league as "shut down" and "folded". All also describe there being no plans for a return whatsoever. The article as written is out of touch with reality in using the present tense. The league is dead, as plainly stated in all reliable sources. Period. oknazevad (talk) 14:51, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

@Oknazevad: According to this article, McMahon is planning to sell the league by July 15. Also in the article: There’s a significant difference between Chapter 11 and Chapter Seven. The latter option, which the AAF pursued, entails complete and total liquidation of the business. The former keeps open the possibility of an eventual return, following reorganization of the business and handling of the debts. There is a difference between "suspending operations" and "ceasing operations", and the XFL has only done the former so far. Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:09, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Reliable sources continue to use the term "shut down" and "folded". An I mean sources like Forbes and Hollywood Reporter. It has no players, coaches, front office personnel, or central office staff. Plain fact is the league ended operations, and is not a functioning sports league, even if the business corporation still legally exists. To use the present tense as though it were still functioning is inaccurate, and frankly succumbs to POV put out by corporate to make themselves look better. (Which, in case you haven't seen it, is going to be needed, as it turns out Vince didn't disclose that WWE, Inc. held a stake, claiming that they were completely separate, which is possible securities fraud and has already seen the threat of lawsuits. But I digress.) oknazevad (talk) 15:19, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

@Oknazevad: Are articles from Forbes and The Hollywood Reporter more reliable for discussing an American football league than Profootballtalk.com or ESPN.com? The ESPN article cited in the lead says a handful of executives remain employed. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:35, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

The are equally so, especially from a business perspective. A few caretakers to serve as executives of record are a legal requirement of a company in bankruptcy, so that doesn't mean anything. oknazevad (talk) 17:38, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

@Oknazevad: Since Forbes and THR readers are unlikely to be heavily interested in a spring football league, doesn't it make sense that the writers would want to simplify the verbiage of their articles? The sports publications would provide more detail for their readers who are more interested in the subject, and since one group of sources that is geared more towards a layman contradicts another more subject-specific group of sources, I think we need to go with the sports sources here. The bankruptcy proceedings will end with either a reorganization of the league or liquifying the rest of their assets, so we'll find out soon either way which direction it goes. Eagles 24/7 (C) 17:46, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

My concern is that all the ESPN source adds is a quote from statement that is, to be frank, a self-serving denial by the XFL. And that is in the middle of an article that otherwise states plainly that the league is shut down, based on contacting actual sources.

Also, I disagree that a source like Forbes would be less reliable for this than a sports-precocity source. Bankruptcy is a business and finance matter, so business media sources are actually preferable for those details.

Either way, describing the league in the present tense as a sporting entity is inaccurate. The XFL has no current sports operations. oknazevad (talk) 22:24, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

@Eagles247: I feel this is related to this conversation and ask for help. Has the XFL ceased operations? If not shouldn't "The XFL was" be changed to "the XFL is". Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 16:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jcoolbro: I don't believe they have ceased operations despite the reporting by some general-news outlets. None of the sports outlets have described their current operation as anything other than "suspended operations", and I disagree with Oknazevad above. There is edit warring going on at the team article pages and this page now about whether the league has folded or not, and we'll need a clear consensus here to move forward one way or the other. I'm going to post at WT:NFL and WT:AMF to see if anyone else wants to weigh in. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:27, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• I would use "suspended operations" for now, as it's what the sources seem to be using. Only a couple non-sports sources use the term "folded." I think we can discount those. I'd be shocked if the league plays another game, though, but that's not our job here. [2] SportingFlyer T·C 16:57, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• "The XFL is a professional American football league owned by Vince McMahon's Alpha Entertainment. At present, the league has suspended operations and declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to the COVID crisis." would be my preferred lede. SportingFlyer T·C 17:01, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

That would be ok for now. I too am very doubtful the league will ever play another game, and I don't think that reliable sources such as Forbes should be dismissed. Honestly, I doubt we'll ever get a formal announcement of shut down, and it will be just a de facto reality, just as we never did for the AAF or UFL in the past. Even if it still exists on paper, that's a mere legal technicality, and it has actually ceased operations.

In a strangely appropriate if distantly related example, the former World Championship Wrestling remained a subsidiary of Turner Broadcasting until it was formally disbanded in 2017 (though under a different name, as the rights to the WCW name were sold to WWE in 2001 along with the tape library), but no one would call it a functioning business entity; it existed only for reasons of legal obligations. Using the present tense for it after operations were shut down in 2001 would be wrong in plain English. We may be dealing with the same thing here. We'll see. But let's not be too much of a stickler for changing it when it's apparent that it will not return. oknazevad (talk) 18:43, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't think it will restart either, but it is a zombie. I'll go ahead and change the lede. SportingFlyer T·C 18:56, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, this thing is DONE. On a side note about WCW, the Time Warner subsidiary (renamed to Universal Wrestling Corporation, based on another promotion Turner had bought in the 1980s) was retained until 2017 to deal with outstanding contracts and lawsuits. Something similar may happen here, but XFL as a league is dead. --Khajidha (talk) 16:09, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

@Khajidha: Have you read the rest of this discussion? Today an article was published indicating McMahon is trying to sell the league with bids due by July 6, 2020. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:12, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Suspended operations is the best thing. They may not official announce folding, take Junior Basketball Association for example they pretty much have folded but haven’t ever officially announced it (though that could be because LaVar Ball is too prideful to admit it was failure). Sports related sources are more reliable for sports related news then places like Forbes, even if we’re talking the business side of sports. Let’s use suspended operations for now, and if no 2021 season is announced or the league formally announces its folded, then we can change it.--Rockchalk717 18:05, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Many XFL players have signed with

Here it says "Since ceasing operations, multiple players from the eight-team league -- which was broadcast nationally on FOX, ESPN and ABC -- have gone on to sign with NFL teams." https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/football/the-rock-buys-xfl/95-b4248ffd-3434-4968-85a8-8e28f4d2908f One notable player who made headlines was PJ Walker https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/carolina-panthers-sign-xfl-star-quarterback-pj-walker#:~:text=The%20Carolina%20Panthers%20signed%20XFL,first%20wave%20of%20free%20agency. The player storage is very relevant, as it also means that new players must be recruited.2601:447:4080:10:D1BA:D4BB:85D2:BCF6 (talk) 16:46, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

@2601:447:4080:10:D1BA:D4BB:85D2:BCF6: It's irrelevant that some players signed with NFL teams, because they also terminated every single other XFL player contract on April 10, 2020 per [3]. So why draw attention to the NFL signees? Most of the players signed by NFL teams won't even make their roster, let alone still be under contract with the teams when the XFL potentially starts up again in the spring. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:50, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

And thank you for self-reverting. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:52, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

XFL and ESPN are through

Please accept that XFL's own newsroom is now acknowledging these reports with the words "less interested."2601:447:4080:10:D43:CDB4:795D:45A9 (talk) 15:35, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@2601:447:4080:10:D43:CDB4:795D:45A9: XFL Newsroom is not affiliated with the XFL. At the bottom of their webpage: "XFL2K/XFL NEWSROOM IS AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY AND HAS NO AFFILIATION WITH THE XFL, XFL.COM, OR ANY XFL TEAMS." The source you provided also does not even mention ESPN once. Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:37, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes they are "affiliated with the XFL" See their website. It is not direct, but in the form of journalism [[4]].2601:447:4080:10:D43:CDB4:795D:45A9 (talk) 15:44, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Go to the very bottom of the webpage and it says "XFL2K/XFL NEWSROOM IS AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY AND HAS NO AFFILIATION WITH THE XFL, XFL.COM, OR ANY XFL TEAMS." I don't know how I can be any clearer, they are not affiliated with the XFL. Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Which is why I typed "not direct." Read the top and you'll see they somehow manage to go beyond commentary and act like organization's news source. I love how Eagles fan Kevin Hart and The Rock make a good tag team in movies, but I also want to know why it claims now affiliation when it acts like an affiliate at the same time.2601:447:4080:10:D43:CDB4:795D:45A9 (talk) 15:50, 18 August 2020 (UTC)