Talk:Forced conversion

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This is the talk page for discussing Forced conversion and anything related to its purposes and tasks.
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UNDUE

There seems to be an UNDUE focus on forced conversion in Pakistan and the UK. While forced conversion in Pakistan is a real problem, the current article devotes more space to it than any other sub-section in the article. And the section on the UK is more about allegations of forced conversion and rebuttals to those allegations than about actual substance. Both of these sections should be summarized per WP:UNDUE.VR _talk 15:42, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Forced conversion to Islam

In the section on Africa, why no mention of Boko Haram, of the Chibok schoolgirl kidnappings and subsequent forced conversion of some if not all of the kidnapped girls, as well as instances of forced conversions of other people in the African subcontinent? Kathy wiki edit (talk) 02:12, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity

There is apparently a misunderstanding around an article which is being sourced here from the NYT entitled "Pope Concedes Unjustifiable Crimes in Converting South Americans". :https://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/world/americas/24pope.html The title of this article is absolutely fictional, since nowhere in the article did Pope Benedict make ANY such assertion. The quote in the article is that it is “not possible to forget the suffering and the injustices inflicted by colonizers against the indigenous population, whose fundamental human rights were often trampled.” Nothing about Forced conversions. If someone has ANY materials where the Pope stated there were "forced conversions" or coercion or anything to that effect, then this source would be legitimate. As it stands, it is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:646:C401:6AC0:6956:5E18:D284:5F8B (talk) 06:28, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, glad to see you using the talk pages. I am following the protocol of wikipedia which is found here WP:BRD. I reverted your edits because in wikipedia you need to have sources for the claims. The source on the Americas is from the pope's concession of unjustifiable crimes in conversion of native people in line with other claims by other historians. It states "These leaders and groups cited the standard historical view that Spanish and Portuguese colonizers forced conversion by giving natives a choice between “the Cross and the sword.”" That source was relevant and the removal was not justified.

For the second source, I read the source and did not see the authors explicitly claiming that some forced conversion occurred. Can you provide a quote from the source that indicates so?Ramos1990 (talk) 07:54, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you are going to use that source, then quote it appropriately, since the Pope NEVER mentioned forced conversions. You can us it to say "some South American Leaders stated..." etc. The Pope referred to "colonizers", which were the secular authorities. If you are going to say "According to Pope Benedict" then you have to quote him correctly. That is if you have a conscience...and apparently you do not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:646:C401:6AC0:6956:5E18:D284:5F8B (talk) 08:00, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The pope was apologizing broadly and recognized injustices including forced conversions by supposed Christians - which is what the piece addressed. The Pope has no reason to apologize for secular Spanish activity - only religious activity. Catholicism is not Spain or the Spanish so he was clearly apologizing for forced abuses of natives. BTW I removed your vandalism on my talk page as such racist nonsense does not belong on wikipedia (I am not Mexican by the way (no seas payaso/payasa) so I am immune to your anti-Mexican hatred - they are nice people though).

Out dated Abrogated Quran 2:256 cited as deliberate deception to let Western civilization fall to Jihad

https://yandex.com/search/?text=david%20wood%20quran%202%3A256%20islam%20religion%20of%20peace&from=os&clid=1836587&lr=103613

thereligionofpeace dot com/pages/games/no-compulsion.aspx

Quotation from the above web page/

Muhammad’s message was far closer to peace and tolerance during his early years, when he didn’t have an army and was trying to pattern his new religion after Christianity. This changed dramatically after he attained the power to conquer, which he eventually used with impunity to bring other tribes into the Muslim fold. Contrast verse 2:256 with Surahs 9 and 5, which were the last “revealed,” and it is easy to see why Islam has been anything but a religion of peace from the time of Muhammad to the present day. /End Quotation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTC1wzBPkMs Quran 2:256 | Religion of Peace | David Wood

Islamic literature consulted as to the validity of Quran 2:256 shows according to the greatest Islamic commentators that numerous later versus supersede the cited verse: Abrogation Quran 2:106, 16:101

Surah 9, after the sword verse, the supposed conditional subsequent passage says to "secure" the hostages for cult indoctrination or conditioning.

Listed in the Islamic scholarly commentaries for Quran 2:256

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Let_There_be_no_Compulsion_in_Religion

Quotation from about 22% down that page/

Allah says: "There is no compulsion in religion", meaning: do not force anyone to embrace Islam, because it is clear and its proofs and evidences are manifest. Whoever Allah guides and opens his heart to Islam has indeed embraced it with clear evidence. Whoever Allah misguides blinds his heart and has set a seal on his hearing and a covering on his eyes cannot embrace Islam by force...hence Allah revealed this verse. But, this verse is abrogated by the verse of "fighting...Therefore, all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the Jizya they should be fought till they are killed. This is the meaning of compulsion. In the Sahih, the Prophet said: "Allah wonders at those people who will enter Paradise in chains", meaning prisoners brought in chains to the Islamic state, then they embrace Islam sincerely and become righteous, and are entered among the people of Paradise.[1]

/End quotation.

The bolded part of the above was that referred by Dr. David Wood in his video and is plainly on the source web document. Oldspammer (talk) 12:49, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]