Talk:Adam Air Flight 574

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The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Neutrality

Because the aim of Wikipedia is neutrality and to be non-denominational, I think the fact that this article specifically cites that there were 3 americans on the passenger list of this flight while offering no other citation of other nationalities in the opening paragraph is slanted and biased. C A L L A M . R O D Y A 04:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Not at all. The foreigners on the plane just happened to be American. It is assumed the rest are Indonesian. This information is from an Indonesian press agency article. (MichaelJLowe 05:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC))[reply]
  - In that case, it should be clearly noted that that of the passengers on board, all were of indonesian nationality except for 3 americans. nothing should be assumed. C A L L A M . R O D Y A 06:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Sure, but the reference only referred to the Americans. You are welcome to find and cite a more comprehensive reference. (MichaelJLowe 06:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC))[reply]
- I agree, this kind of blinkered reporting always annoys me. (It reminds me of the legendary newspaper headline after the sinking of the Titanic, "Ship Sinks, Aberdeen Man Drowns") -- 125.238.56.240 10:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - which is itself likely an urban myth: [1] Btyner 18:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have sought to address NPOV by rewording as "the passemger list is comprised primarily of Indonesian nationals, with the only foreigners being an American family of three". Matt.hatton 11:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This proves that the three Americans were indeed the only foreigners. Will cite it in the article in adition to current cite, should clear this up once and for all. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 15:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The plane's history

"The plane had 45,371 flying hours, and was last serviced and declared airworthy in December 2005.[11]"

Last serviced and declared airworthy in Dec 2005? I take that means a "C" or "D" major maintenance check, but airliners have minor servicing done on them in much more frequent intervals, plus they're checked every day and every flight and have to be signed off as airworthy every time. Could someone with more accurate facts please undate.

CW 09:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone claims the actual date is 2006 as reported by the BBC. However no direct cite was provided and as it conflicted with the cite we used which was left behind, someone removed it. If someone can confirm that the BBC or other agencies are reporting December 25 2006, we should include this Nil Einne 12:46, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mention of finding the blackboxes

This article, however, had not mentioned the finding of the blackboxes of the flight KI0574. I have reviewed the article and if this article were to mention the finding of the blackboxes, it needs to be considered, if possible, redo the article (with the mentioning of the blackboxes). Thank You.

TeoWS 11:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is horrible. Does Indonesia require black boxes? Xiner (talk, email) 03:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

With the plane still missing ,the search for the black box is impossible.... and yes we do have black boxes.125.164.190.109 05:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The plane is still missing so the black box is impossible to found.--Calupict! 05:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so wait for the plane to be found and then someone mention the finding of the blackboxes if possible.

TeoWS 11:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When the falsely reported news came (that the plane has been found), there is this news that the National Commission for Transportation Safety (Indonesian) will focus on the search of the black box. 202.138.62.41 16:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jet not found: CNA Reports

CNA has just gotten the latest news: Adam Air jet not found: Indonesian official

More of the news can be found here. Please refer to it and update if neccessary. Thank You. TeoWS 12:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of casualties report

Until there is a cited article the report of 12 survivors should not be listed. An idonesian official has denied the validity of these reports Criptofcorbin 12:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that until the claims that the wreckage has not been found are 100% confirmed in the press that the previous details should be still be mentioned regarding the wreckage/survivors/etc skyskraper 12:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TEN News

Ten News reports that the plane has crashed into a mountain with 12 survivors. ~ Trisreed my talk my contribs 13:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just about everyone reported that. As it clearly says in the article, that has since proved to be false. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 15:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed

See here. Acdx 20:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. See the same link. Removing tag. User:Logical2u_Talk 20:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disappear?

What do you mean by "disappear?" A plane doesn't just vanish. There is possibility that the plane crashed, or it landed on some mysterious uncharted island or something. Anyway, you can't just say disappear, you have to note somehow some possibilities of what may have happened and what the implications of the disappearance may be. It seems awfully vague just saying that the airplane disappeared.... → JARED ^(t) 22:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, it is horribly vague, but thats all that we know. It is our policy (except I don't think its actually written, just the way we allways do it) not to specualte about accident/incident flights, even if thats what the media are doing, but instead to wait for hard facts. We know it vanished off radar screens, and we know it hasn't been found, therefore 'disappeared' is the best we can do. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 23:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was just thinking that there may be sources out there which may have an idea of where it went. I am unfamiliar with the topic, and will leave it to you to edit. I agree that it would just be speculating, though, if it isn't sourced. → JARED ^(t) 23:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly, thats all we know. Although I have seen several reports which said that a ringtone could be heard when the co-pilots mobile phone was called, meaning the plane is virtualy certainly on land. Someone removed it last night with no explanation, but I intend to restore it to the article. Ohter than that, we can only keep checking Up-to-date reports and wait. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 23:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As we no nothing of fact concerning the fate of this airplane, why is the article using the past tense to refer to it? Falconus|Talk 00:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I assume you mean in the opening paragraph, "...was a scheduled...". Well, that is standard for accident flights. Even if all people are now found, after an incident of this magnitude, the flight number will be retired. Therefore, there will never again be a flight with the number Adam Air Flight 574. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 00:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, Thanks. I got a little mixed up because I was looking at the main article on Adam Air beforehand, where they already have written off the aircraft.--Falconus|Talk 00:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see, it is getting a little confusing, with reports being issued saying they found it, only to then be retracted again, and the aircraft still missing. I'll see to it that the Adam Air article is sorted. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 00:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Thank you. --Falconus|Talk 00:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is Indonesia, the land that is a living embodiment of SNAFU, and the cell phone thing is meaningless (esp. since it should be turned off in the first place when flying!). Until there's firm proof (televised footage) of wreckage, I think the only thing we can safely say is that the aircraft is and remains missing. Jpatokal 03:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Picture

Do we have a photo of the plane in question anywhere? -- Tony Springston 00:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Check the external links. Someone should try to contact the authors of these pictures and ask for permission to include a picture on wikipedia (MichaelJLowe 01:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Up-to-date reports - THE PLANE HAS NOT YET BEEN FOUND

Hi, I would like to advise people here that Google News can be set up to show the most recent reports about the crash first; see Here. We should check this regularly so we can know as soon as the wreckage is really discovered. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 16:03, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Endless reverts

People are constantly updating the article with outdated and incorrect information regarding the discovery of the missing aircraft. My suggestion would be to throw in Template:Controversial or Template:ReversionWar. Acdx 03:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've placed the second of the two on the article. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 12:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There should be no dispute. Dozens of sources are carrying the fact that the initial information about the discovery of the plane was incorrect. There is nothing hard or controversial about it. Just people who don't have the new information. that is what the {{current}} tag should be for. Merbabu 12:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Passenger list

I found two articles which have the passenger list. Which one is the better one:

From the Adam Air site: http://www.flyadamair.com/info/admin/fullnews.php?id=1
From one of Indonesia newspaper site: http://www.kompas.com/ver1/Nasional/0701/01/234039.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Calupict (talk • contribs) 05:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

phone ringing

"The aircraft is believed to be on land, because a Search and Rescue duty officer at Makassar, Abdul Gani, is reported to have said that when an attempt was made to contact the co-pilot via mobile phone, "There was a ring tone, but no answer." This suggests that the aircraft did not crash into the sea, because the telephone would be unlikely to work there"

if it rang, wouldnt the telco be able to track which mobile phone tower was useing the mobile? and find the plane?

i wouldnt know if its technicly capable, its just that info just doesnt sound right to me.

We can track which tower, but that still doesn't narrow it down very much. We're better off doing exactly whats being done - going on towards the beacon until we reach the plane. Wherever that may be. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 12:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiNews

Is there a wikinews article on this? Xxxxxxxxxxx 08:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Should be, somewhere. I'll try to get a chance to look later tonoght. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 17:08, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's already there, I missed it. It's in the external links section. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 17:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hariyanto

Hariyanto is not the village but an officer. Andres 12:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thats not what the original citation said. For some reason it has been replaced by poorer cites that do not support the information. I am going to replace the priginal cite, which has the information as it is written in the article; the others don not even contain the word "Hariyanto". Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 12:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I erased it first. I need to read the source first and then copyedit that poor section later. — Indon (reply) — 13:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To prevent us duplicating our effort, I'll leave you to it, then. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 13:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done. ;-) — Indon (reply) — 13:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Revert wars

Per this talk page, the revert wars appear to have been users mistakenly adding inaccurate info. The 'revert wars' were therefore not content disputes and there doesn't seem to be anything to discuss about them. As such, I've removed the revert war template. I've also added a hidden comment to try and prevent users adding inaccurate info, altho I would expect most people must know by now that the earlier reports were wrong. If I'm mistaken and there are some genuine issues then please discuss them in the talk page Nil Einne 14:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]