Talk:Normandy (Mass Effect)

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Requested move 9 October 2020

The request to rename this article to Normandy (Mass Effect) has been carried out.

If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

SSV Normandy → Normandy (Mass Effect) – I propose that the title of this article be renamed or moved to Normandy (Mass Effect), per WP:COMMONNAME. A google news archive search gives 8,750 results for Normandy Mass Effect, compared to 398 results for SSV Normandy. I also notice that many of the cited sources actually refer to the topic or subject as simply "The Normandy", while specific ship designations like "SSV" or "SR-1" are often omitted.

In-universe wise, the Normandy SR-2 is an entirely new ship which happens to emulate the original's design and bear the same name as opposed to a reconstruction. PC Gamer specifically referred to the SSV as the original ship destroyed at the beginning of ME2. The Normandy Crash Site DLC even has the player visiting the remains of the original Normandy, so the SR-2 is clearly not rebuilt or salvaged in any meaningful way from the original as asserted in the article. Naming the article Normandy (Mass Effect) broadly and adequately covers both iterations of the starship and any relevant sub-topics (including potential subsections for its pilot and AI), and SSV Normandy is perfectly fine as a redirect when performing a search. Haleth (talk) 06:54, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Haleth: Comment - I initially considered the name Normandy (Mass Effect), however, going by WP:NATURAL, the next most common name is preferred over any sort of parenthetical disambiguation. It also makes sense that a ship would be referred to with those initials, similar to the USS Normandy which is not called Normandy (CG 60) or the like. Due to WP:NATURAL I chose this name. Also this article refers to it as the SSV Normandy SR-2. The SR-2 is only the hull classification symbol and it would still retain the SSV in the name regardless._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 13:22, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I also think the search was misleading, as the "Mass Effect" in the name obviously gave a ton of false positives._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 13:35, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A "rebuilding" can also be from the original plans rather than the original parts. It's clear that they heavily based the new Normandy on the old. The shape is extremely similar, its drive core was copied, and it was made for the express purpose of giving Shepard a familiar vessel._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 13:49, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Zxcvbnm: Comment - Just going by precedent with title names of notable articles for other fictional vehicles elsewhere, I see that Sulaco (fictional spacecraft) keeps its parenthetical disambiguation in the article title, Tantive IV does not include the CR90 serial, and Starship Enterprise is a generalist article which collates information about several related ships bearing the same name (some with standalone articles which do include a specific serial in the title name) which I believe is similar to this case here, as functionally there are two separate starships covered by this article. While the SR-2 is intended to be the successor to the SR-1, it is not for all intents and purposes identical or even re-built from the original for the reasons I already mentioned. Do correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall reading any in-universe material which says it is re-built from the same plans, only that Cerberus wanted to make a new and improved version which emulates its intended predecessor in appearance and style to keep Shepard happy. Since the SR-2 is built by a different organization, officially opponents of the Systems Alliance in fact, it wouldn't retain the SSV serial as it is not commissioned as a Systems Alliance frigate.

The comparison you made to a real life ship, the USS stands for "United States Ship". In this in-universe case, the SSV refers to Systems Alliance and space vehicle. The SR-2 is definitely not a commissioned Alliance ship in ME2, and any in-universe dialogue about it being re-commissioned by the Alliance in ME3 is vague at best; seems as if they just let Shepard have it after impounding it between the two games. In many of the secondary sources I've looked at so far, including several new ones I posted to the talk page, they have not referred to the SSV serial when discussing the SR-2. Even with the in-universe codex entry of the SR-2 for Mass Effect 3, the way it was written seems to convey an understanding that the SSV serial refers specifically to its predecessor. Posted a link to Fandom for ease of reference:[1] You made a good point about the false positives. A search for Normandy starship got 1,070,000 results, though I feel that it is not as WP:NATURAL as Normandy (Mass Effect) or even SSV Normandy. Anyway, it's a matter of consensus now. Haleth (talk) 23:26, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom and clarity. Only real Mass Effect nerds casually use the in-universe starship designation; most players / media just call it "The Normandy" with original vs. new if there's a need to differentiate between ME1 & ME2. SnowFire (talk) 17:56, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]