Talk:Kinmen

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Taiwan B‑class High‑importance

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Frequently asked questions

Q: Should "Jinmen" have its own article?

A: No. Kinmen is a postal romanization of the Chinese name 金門. This transliteration system was developed in the 1890s. It is based on pronunciation in Southern Mandarin, a dialect spoken in the Lower Yangtze region, including the city of Nanjing. The spelling Kinmen is often used in material published by the Taiwanese government.^[1]

"Jinmen" is a transliteration of the same characters made using the pinyin system. Pinyin spelling reflects pronunciation in putonghua, a standardized form of the Northern Mandarin dialect spoken in Beijing and other northern cities. Schools in China have taught pupils Northern Mandarin pronunciation since the 1930s.^[2] Pinyin was adopted by China in 1958 and internationally in 1979.^[3] Taiwanese schools also teach Northern Mandarin pronunciation, called Guoyu in Taiwan. The government adopted pinyin in 2009.^[4]

An article called Jinmen would essentially duplicate this article.

References

^ For example, 2019-2020 Taiwan at a glance, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of China (Taiwan), October 2019, pp. 1, 22.
^ The National Language Commission published a pronuncation standard in 1932. (Commonly used words in the National Language (国语常用字汇)).
^ Times Revises Style of Chinese spelling", New York Times, March 4, 1979.
^ Shih Hsiu-Chuan, "Hanyu Pinyin to be standard system in 2009." Taipei Times, Sept. 18, 2008.

Recent changes

I recently made various edits to the article which I will justify in this post.

A paragraph on the pinyin name, "Jinmen," was added. On GBooks, Jinmen is used far more than "Chin-men," a Wade-Giles spelling which was given more coverage in the article prior to my recent edits. As the island's Cold War prominence faded in the 1980s and 1990s, usage for Kinmen declined, but not nearly as much as usage for Quemoy. Check out this ngram.

Since I have been accused of being a pinyin supporter, I should note that my preferred spelling of the island's name is "Quemoy." This is the spelling used by published dictionaries and encyclopedias. It would be the article's title if we followed our own naming guidelines.

My removal of this reference was questioned. The Ministry of the Interior doesn't make "the rules," so I don't understand the objection. The reference is a Chinese-language PDF that was removed from the MOI site years ago. IMO, this source, from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, is superior. This is just about neater sourcing since the various branches of the Taiwanese government provide consistent information.
I have to wonder why the 1958 bombardment and the island’s Cold War status were removed from the lead. These issues are surely more relevant than the names of the outlying island and the status of the disbanded Fujian Province.
I have restored the discussion of travel restrictions to the lead.
I have asked around to try to determine why so many Wikipedia editors add the phrase "Republic of China" to article text. It might look like an infiltration by the KMT. But as near as I can tell, it's not really a political statement. These editors argue the ROC is "official" because the Taiwanese government occasionally uses it. Of course, the government uses "Taiwan" as well. Asking how the government would do it is not how editing is supposed to work. Copy editors should select a dictionary and appropriate reference works and follow the usage in those. In this case, relevant reference works almost invarably use “Taiwan.” Our guidelines recommend The Chicago Manual of Style, which in turn recommends The World Factbook for this purpose. "Taiwan" is also more practical since “People’s Republic of China” and “Republic of China” are confusingly similar names.
The reason the island is called Quemoy has nothing to do with the university. So this information doesn’t belong in the names section.
I’d have restored the information that Taiwan officially uses pinyin to the “Names” section. The way it was written, it sounded like postal romanization is still a thing. 5440orSleep (talk) 08:56, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

infiltration by the KMT is an immediately block-able offense. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 14:00, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a guideline regarding KMT infiltration? It was just a joke. 5440orSleep (talk) 17:21, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"The reason the island is called Quemoy has nothing to do with the university. So this information doesn’t belong in the names section." No, but it is an example of the usage of the term in a prominent context in the local area. Hence it is warranted for the name section; hence it is readded. Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:50, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Of all the many mentions of "Quemoy," why single out this one? It makes it sound like the term is making a comeback. Whether usage is increasing or not, the horserace tone is inappropriate. When I walked around the island, I didn't see even one sign that said "Quemoy." The islanders I talked to made a point of saying "Kinmen." I remember this because I thought it was odd that they would use this pseudo-English pronunciation instead of standard Chinese. Certainly usage for Quemoy has declined since the 1990s. 5440orSleep (talk) 05:50, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Non-native Namings

It is WP:UNDUE "prominence of placement" to add foreign language content not cited to native-native communication between the residents of the area. Geographyinitiative (talk) 03:46, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Greater Kinmen

Geonames gives eleven names for the island, but "Greater Kinmen" isn't one of them. MOFA doesn't mention Greater Kinmen either. Information that is this obscure doesn't belong in the opening paragraph. 5440orSleep (talk) 01:11, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[1] For example, 2019-2020 Taiwan at a glance, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Republic of China (Taiwan), October 2019, pp. 1, 22.

[2] The National Language Commission published a pronuncation standard in 1932. (Commonly used words in the National Language (国语常用字汇)).

[3] Times Revises Style of Chinese spelling", New York Times, March 4, 1979.

[4] Shih Hsiu-Chuan, "Hanyu Pinyin to be standard system in 2009." Taipei Times, Sept. 18, 2008.

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