Talk:Azerbaijan
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Sweden,[a] formally the Kingdom of Sweden,[b] is a Nordic country located on the Scandinavian Peninsula in Northern Europe.
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A developed country, Canada has a high nominal per capita income globally and its advanced economy ranks among the largest in the world, relying chiefly upon its abundant natural resources and well-developed international trade networks. Recognized as a middle power, Canada's strong support for multilateralism and internationalism has been closely related to its foreign relations policies of peacekeeping and aid for developing countries. Canada is part of multiple international organizations and forums.
A highly developed country, Canada has the seventeenth-highest nominal per-capita income globally and the sixteenth-highest ranking in the Human Development Index. Its advanced economy is the tenth-largest in the world and the 14th for military expenditure by country, Canada is part of several major international institutions including the United Nations, NATO, the G7, the Group of Ten, the G20, the United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement, the Commonwealth of Nations, the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, and the Organization of American States.
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- Australia = Prose size (text only): 60 kB (9,304 words) "readable prose size"
- Bulgaria = Prose size (text only): 56 kB (8,847 words) "readable prose size"
- Canada = Prose size (text only): 67 kB (9,834 words) "readable prose size"
- Germany = Prose size (text only): 54 kB (8,456 words) "readable prose size"
- Japan = Prose size (text only): 51 kB (8,104 words) "readable prose size"
- East Timor = Prose size (text only): 53 kB (8,152 words) "readable prose size"
- Malaysia = Prose size (text only): 57 kB (9,092 words) "readable prose size"
- New Zealand = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9,761 words) "readable prose size"
- Philippines = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9,178 words) "readable prose size"
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== Economy ==
== Economy ==
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Notes
- ^ Swedish: Sverige [ˈsvæ̌rjɛ] ; Finnish: Ruotsi; Meänkieli: Ruotti; Northern Sami: Ruoŧŧa; Lule Sami: Svierik; Pite Sami: Sverji; Ume Sami: Sverje; Southern Sami: Sveerje or Svöörje; Yiddish: שוועדן, romanized: Shvedn; Scandoromani: Svedikko; Kalo Finnish Romani: Sveittiko.
- ^ Swedish: Konungariket Sverige [ˈkôːnɵŋaˌriːkɛt ˈsvæ̌rjɛ]
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Lets clarify/define our subject matters, as it is used in English.
- Azerbaijan is the name of an independent country as well as the name of the northern part of Iran. Both are mostly populated by Azeri Turks! But also include minorities like Georgians, Lezgins, Kurds, Talishs and Armenians .
- Iran is a country with many ethnic groups as well (Including Arabs, Kurds, Persians/Fars and , Turks ...)
- Persian is the English name for ethnic group whose native name is Fars in Iran.
- The terms Persian (Fars) or Turk or Arab, are refereing to an ethnic group, based on language only(not race or citizentiop ). Ethnicity is based on language, which defines the identity, culture etc.
- Turkish (when not speaking of language)is a refrence for any citizen of Turkey, also name of Language and ethnic group mainly in Turkey.
- Turk is a broader name for people that live in todays Turkey, Azerbaijan, and northern part of Iran!
- Iranian is who ever who is citizen of Iran.
So you can say:
- I am an Azeri/Azerbaijani, because I am a citizen of Azerbaijan or from northern part of Iran , and
- I am a Turk in refrence to my language and ethnicity, but
- I am not Turkish as I am not citizen of Turkey.
- I am an Iranian as I am citizen of Iran.
-So an Azerbaijani can be an Iranian when it comes to citizentip . So you can say: X is an Iranian-Azeri.
-Or an Afghani can be Persian but not Iranian when we talk of ethnicity. So you can say: Y is a Afghani-Persian.
If you have different definitions of these terms and references please define them. Mehrdad 12:42, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for clearing that out Mehrdadd, good post Baku87 20:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)Baku87
- Ethnicity is based on language, which defines the identity, culture etc.
- Oh really? So i guess the seljuks, Safavids, Qajar's, Mughals, etc... were all persians. hooray for us. thanks for your logic, but next time, stick to facts, and keep your opinions to yourself.Khosrow II 23:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
If you want to know what Azeri's are ask Azeri's for the answer will be obviously what we and that is Azeri Turks
Hi,
I'd just like to state that the poor bunch of Pan-Persians foaming at the mouth are making total fool's of themselves.
As an Azeri Turk in diaspora thanks to the opressive Iranian regime I can openly state that my language is Turkish, I am a Turk, yet also an Iranian as in citizen. The reason I say this is because Iran does not recognise my language, provide's no education in my language, we are made to feel that as Turks we are not Iranians as to be Iranian you must speak Persian and abide by the Persian rules and culture.
For this reason I do not regard myself as an "equal" Iranian, me and millions like me are not allowed to speak the language of the people who ruled this land for 1000 years which is a real shame.
Turks have been in the region for over 2000 years, open your history books and read it, it is documented as far back to 500 BC.
The Khazar's and their ancestor's settled in the region in 100 AD, so the claim of no Turks being in the region prior to the Selcuks is a common Persian lie.
To see for yourselves about the linguistic state in Iran here is an objective source.
For Iran
Azerbaijani, South [azb] 23,500,000 in Iran (1997). Population includes 290,000 Afshar, 5,000 Aynallu, 7,500 Baharlu, 1,000 Moqaddam, 3,500 Nafar 1,000 Pishagchi, 3,000 Qajar, 2,000 Qaragozlu, 130,000 Shahsavani (1993). Population total all countries: 24,364,000.
Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Azerbaijani
Khorasani Turkish [kmz] 400,000 (1977 Doerfer).
Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Turkish
Qashqa'i [qxq] 1,500,000 (1997).
Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Azerbaijani
Turkmen [tuk] 2,000,000 in Iran (1997).
Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Turkmenian
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Iran
That;s almost 30 million Native Turkish speakers in Iran.
If there are any here who still try to deny we are Turks then tell us this in our own language, let's debate this in Turkish which is our language, oh but you can't can you because you are not Azeri, Qaskay or Turkmen.
It would be alot better if you could just accept the realities, we are not Persian, don't speak Persian, Azeri Turks of Iran are Iranian citizens, Azeri Turks of Azerbaijan are Azerbaijan citizen's and luckily have their beautiful language as the National one, they teach our fabulous language in schools, its the language of the state, of media, of national identity, there they can be what they are and speak their mind about who they are.
Shamefully this isn't the case in my country, even more disgracefull is when these Persian's start foaming at the mouth calling anyone who say's they are a Turk an agent from Turkey.
Please, stop the paranoia, were living inside Iran, not in Turkey, if you carry on fooling yourself otherwise very soon South Azerbaijan will be joining the Republic of Azerbaijan and Iran will have been destroyed by the Persians.
I have visited the Republic of Azerbaijan many time's, it make's me so proud and happy to see my nation living our and speaking our beautiful language, to see them proud and open about who they are, a place where being a Turk is a beatiful thing, hopefully one day the same will be said for Iran.
Azerbaycan ölmedi Özlüyünden dönmeyib Azerbaycan oyaqdır Varlığına dayaqdır Ana dilim ölen deyil Özge dile çönen deyil
it just shows , that my figures were right ,i said 20-22 millions azeris and eight to nine millions kurds but that souce seems to be pretty well
it would mean , that today thre are about 25 millions azeris and 8 millions kurds in iran, considering population growth
kurdish dialects
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Iran
Hawrami [hac] 22,948 in Iran
Kurdish, Central [ckb] 3,250,000 in Iran
Kurdish, Northern [kmr] 350,000 in Iran
Kurdish, Southern [sdh] 3,000,000 in Iran (2000 Fattah).
Laki [lki] 1,000,000 (2002 Fattah).
- Guys, Ethnologue figures are wrong, their sums do not add up. If you add up all their figures on different languages it adds up to 72.7 million people and that is 5.2 millions more than the population of Iran (that also includes 3-4 millions Afghan refugees and others). So their sum is about 8-9 millions out! see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ethnologue#Emails_to_Ethnologue_with_regard_to_wrong_figures_about_Iran Kiumars 07:57, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually Azaris are Iranian
It has scientifically been established through genetics that Azaris are Turcophone (or Turkic speaking) Iranians. I have no problem in anyone saying that I am a Turkic person due to my langauge, but ethnically I am an Iranian. The majority of Azaris also view themselves as Iranians. Language is not the factor that defines a race or ethnic group. 72.57.230.179
- Cite the study, its authors, when was done, who funded, who published -- there is not such credible scientific studies and it is generally easy to distinguish most ethnic Azerbaijanis from most ethnic Persians, for example. Often, there are anthropological differences, although I've never dwelled into details of such research. Of course, this doesn't mean that ethnic Azerbaijanis don't have Caucasian, Iranian, Semitic and other lineage, but then all ethnic Persians and other Iranians have also Turkic, Caucasian, Semitic and other lineages too. --AdilBaguirov 00:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Let us speak about scientific facts to be consistent. Nex time when you claim something please be specific and give us the name, number, date and page numbers of the scientific journal. Or else you are funny. You may not like Turks. But you should not lie. Apart from Iran rest of the world says that Azeris are mostly of Turkish origin. Nowadays Iran has an Southern Azerbaijan problem and trying to claim that Azeris are Iranian. But this will not work. You can not meet scientific facts with emotional claims. In Azerbaijan there are of course dark coloured citizens resemble Iranians. But they are not majority.
- I don't know if you are azeri or no, but me as an azeri no more know myself iranian...Iran as i remember was: "countries of Iran" till 90 years ago till it became one centralized country which south-azerbaijan was part of this union, but tanx no more, I've had enough.
I don't care about race, we are a diffrent nation.
Independent, unbiased determination by the world community re: NK conflict
The Azerbaijan page lacked references and quotes from the authoritative English-language sources, and the following were added: CIA World Factbook's succinct description, the 4 UN Security Council resolutions, the PACE resolution and the OIC resolution, along with the US Presidential Determination. All these are extremely important and reflect the independent, unbiased, non-partisan POV and indeed, in case of UN SC, are legally binding as become international law. All these detailed references and quotes must stay in the page and should not be removed. --AdilBaguirov 00:32, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
== To those who dedicated their meaningless lives aginst us Turks ==
==Turk== is an ethnic name for people who inhabit in Turkey, Azerbaijan, Northern part of todays Iran, Southeast of Georgia, Northeast of todays Iraq (Kerkuk) and Northern Cyprus!
Population of the Republic of Azerbaijan! There are minorities living in that country too: ==Lezgins== - 45.000 to 65.000! ==Ingeloys(ethnic georgians,but muslim from religion)== - 25.000 to 35.000! ==Talishs== - 55.000 to 75.000! Not million and a half! ==Kurds== - 25.000 to 35.000! ==Armenians(Karabakh included)== - 200.000! ==Russians== - 35.000! ==Others== - 45.000! If you add all the top numbers it is not even a half a million!! The rest 8.000.000 are Azeri Turks! ==Iran== - Total population is 76.500.000. ==Persians== - 32.000.000!Surprised, go check both Russian and English sources! Not Iranian ! ==Lours== - 1.000.000! ==Balujis== - 3.500.000! ==Azeri Turks== - 29.000.000! ==Avshar Turks== - 1.500.000! ==Turkmens== - 2.750.000! ==Other turkic speaking tribes== - 750.000! ==Kurds== - 4.000.000! ==Afgans== - 1.000.000! ==Arabs== - 500.000 ==Others== - Armanians, Jews, Talishs - 500.000 If you add these numbers up according the linquistic origin this what is comming up : Turkic speaking people ( Azeri Turks, Turkmens, Avshars etc...) - 34.000.000! Persian speaking people ( Persians and Lours ) - 33.000.000 Afgans - 1.000.000 Kurds - 4.000.000 Balujis - 3.500.000 Others ( Armenians, Jews, Talishs )- 500.000 These are the statistics. Now tell me: Why should the official language of Iran should be Persian? Why Turks can not learn their native language in schools in Iran? Why Kurds can not learn their native language in Iran? Ozqan Bakhish
Official websites
If someone is able, please gather and provide here a list of all official government websites and remove spam from this page. Thanks. Azarian 18:41, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Figures of Iranian Azeris
Where is this bull about 25 million Iranian Azeris coming from? Azeris constitute one-fourth of Iran's population...Iran's population is 70 million...25 million would only be accurate if Iran's population were 100 million, in which case one-fourth or 25 percent would be just that, 25 million. Do the math again...also, Azerbaijan Republic is not 8 million Azeris it is six and half million, because one and a half million Talish are not ethnic Azeris (I am even going as far as counting Lezgins as ethnic Azeris, which they are not)...Azerbaijan Republic has had one agenda since its foundation...to take over northern IRAN which it still refers to as "South Azerbaijan" as if it were a southern province of Azerbaijan Republic, and stir up ethnic strife in Iran. Iran's policy of supporting Armenia and keeping Azerbaijan Republic weak is right on the money...you don't let your sworn enemy get an inch. IRAN is with you ARMENIA! Long live Hayistan! Long live independent Talish-Mughan Republic! Long live Nagorno-Karabakh Republic/Armenia! Aliyev, you will see Tabriz the same day you see Stepanakert (Xankendi as you call it)...NEVER!
- My good friend, It is not Aliyev’s plan it is America’s plan. America fears that Northern Azeris may want to join Iran (the mother land) and they have been working hard on several plans in the last 10 years but as you can see Iran is still Iran and is getting stronger everyday with the help of all Iranians (Azeri and Fars and Kurds and the other 75 languages apparently spoken in Iran according to Ethnologue!). Iran was not build in a day and will not be destroyed in a day. Kiumars 08:31, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Ethnologue figures are wrong, their sums do not add up. If you add up all their figures on different languages it adds up to 72.7 million people and that is 5.2 million more than the population of Iran (that also includes 3-4 million Afghan refugees and others). So their sum is about 8-9 millions out! see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ethnologue#Emails_to_Ethnologue_with_regard_to_wrong_figures_about_Iran Kiumars 08:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- To all the provocateurs: according to the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences' most recent estimate (2004), Azerbaijanis constitute up to 28% of Iranian population or, as they also mention, according to other calculations about 1/3 of the population. This does not include other Turkic peoples that are scattered in the south and north-east of the country, which is another 3-4%. Hence, 25 million is actually a reasonable estimate. --AdilBaguirov 13:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Iran's not getting stronger, they put the highest pressures on their own people, + 2/3 of turks who live in iran are out of south-azerbaijan, because of the centralizing and persanising plans -which they use really nasty methods-, they had to move which some of these can not even speak turkish, coz they are persianized in one word, and this is what made us to think about ourselves, we lost almost half of our people in Iran, and that's enough, I'm no more an iranian, we fighted for iran for centeries more than anybody else, we ruled the country for centeries and kept it strong till now, we did what others didn't do it, and oh i forgot to say it they did something: they call us donkeys! and they come to my city and kill 25000 people, just in my city, haha, history won't forget anything, we lost half-million people from my land to fight with saddam to keep the country, and we are not even allowed to have a school! we need to be proud of being persian! being persianized! being proud of Cyrus and Darius who were capturing the world by people's blood, no respect, am i not a human?
- Iran is a extremist country who funds world wide terrorist organisations, who on earth would want to be part of such destruction. Baku87 14:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Oil Reserves
Does anybody actually know the proven oil reserves of Azerbaijan? I have come across figures from 589 million bbl (CIA Factbook) to some who claim 30-40 billion bbl! If it is only 589 million bbl it will run out in a few years! Does anybody actually know? Kiumars 08:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- I know. And Azerbaijani oil will not run out for 30 years. Meanwhile, no one has ever claimed 30-40 billion bbl -- President Aliyev always states the figure of 6-7 bbl. --AdilBaguirov 12:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Officially booked reserves are now about 7 billion barrels (Similar to Angola) of oil and 40 Tcf of gas. 30-40 billion barrels were claimed in early 90s during the hype. CIA factook refers to SOCAR operated field only. abdulnr 00:57, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- BP and the president Azerbaijan have stated that with the opening of BTC which will transfer about a million barrels a day, and that they except th~e BTC to last for at least 30 years. If you do the math it basicly means Azerbaijan has about 10,9 billion oil in reserce Baku87 14:17, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
"Controversy" tag
This section says:
The name they chose for their new nation was Azerbaijan ... in hopes of claiming north western Iran.
Is there any proof of that, other than publications of some Iranian authors, who have obvious bias in this issue? Also the text of this new section is very far from NPOV rules and presents the issue in typical propaganda fashion. According to the rules, we present only the facts without taking any sides. So I attached the tag, which should remain, until the problem is corrected. Grandmaster 05:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
- yes, if you look into the main page, if you actually read it before you put it pu for deletion, you will see the quotes of several people who all say it was for political reasons to claim northern iran. the pan turkist movement that started at the begining of WWI had these intentions. infact, the ottomans invaded russia,thinking that they could defeat russia and get to central asia and united all the turkic peoples. Khosrow II 13:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Khosrow - this is ridiculous, as is your above statement. I have not read a single source that state this fact from Rasulzadeh and other founders of republic. Of course, Iranian authors accuse them of doing so without any proof abdulnr 23:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually after reading this it is even more POV than I thought in tone. This section should be re-worded. E.G - where does "Pan-Turanist Musavatist" party come from...?
- Well abdulnr, its not my fault that you have never read a source regarding it, but the source is listed in the main article, have you even read it? I am taking off the tag until you come up with the exact problem, not a general statement.Khosrow II 23:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- I gotta agree with Abdulnr thats just way to POV. Baku87 14:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Land of the Eternal Fire
I don't think that "Land of the Eternal Fire" is a motto as much as it is a nickname. A motto would be more like a phrase or a short list of words meant formally to describe the general motivation or intention of an entity (in this case a specfic country). Take the mottos of the United States ("In God We Trust"), the Czech Republic ("Truth prevails!"), or Turkey ("Peace at Home, Peace in the World") for example. By comparison, "Land of the Eternal Fire" is merely a literal meaning of a word ("Azerbaijan") and does not describe the general motivation or intention of the Republic of Azerbaijan. I'm removing it until somebody can find an actual motto for the country (if one even exists). -- Clevelander 14:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe they misunderstood the concept of motto when they accepted it, but thats the official motto of Azerbaijan, I can understand your point Clevelander, maybe its not really approriate to be a motto but it is the motto of the country, ask any other Azeri they will confirm it. We cant just make up a motto ourselfs for Azerbaijan. So best thing right now is just to put it back up, as it is the official motto of the country. Baku87 14:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, but additionally there are no Azerbaijani government sources that confirm this to be the country's official motto. It has been taken off and will stay off. -- Clevelander 20:07, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
IPA
Could someone add IPA pronunciation to the lead? I'm not familiar with the subject:) --Brand спойт 11:24, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
- The current "IPA pronunciation" shown, "[a-trO-p&-'tE-nE]", is certainly _not_ IPA. It shouldn't be too hard to fix a correct phonemic pronunciation, if it's only clearified whether the intention is to make one of the English or the Azeri name. /The Phoenix 15:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, I also doubted. --Brand спойт 11:19, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
The name
There's no need to spam the articles about Azerbaijan with POV interpretations of the history. Khosrow has already been warned by admins that this is not acceptable, still he continues to push his POV. There's enough of information about the name in Etymology section, with a link to a more detailed article, no need to consume so much space in this article by nationalistic nonsence. Grandmaster 06:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- I think that as long as we have an article on the history of the name "Azerbaijan," then we're fine. We don't need a section on the "Azerbaijan naming controversy" on every article relating to the Republic of Azerbaijan. -- Clevelander 09:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Absolutely. Khosrow II was even warned by the admin that this is not acceptable, [1] but still he continues to spam the articles about Azerbaijan with the same repetitive and POV section. Grandmaster 10:25, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Its not spam, its a summarized sourced section leading to a main article, just as the Azerbaijan page links to otehr articles while also having summaries. This is not spamming.Khosrow II 20:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Unprotection?
Are we ready to unprotect this page yet? There hasn't been much discussion for awhile... —Khoikhoi 17:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- I think we should. Again, I don't see the point in arguing over the name "Azerbaijan" and inserting the "Azerbaijan naming controversy" section on every single page relating to the Republic of Azerbaijan. -- Clevelander 18:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- No, the issue is not settled yet, it is being discussed else where. If this article gets unlocked, GM will just start another revert/edit war.Khosrow II 20:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Picture of Baku
There is a photograph in the body of the article, with the explanation "The National Bank (right) behind the Fountains Square in Baku". But there is a confusion. What is depicted on the picture is NOT the Fountain Square. The Fountain Square is located in the very center of Baku, and the closest bank building to that square is the International Bank of Azerbaijan, which is a blue building. I guess who ever "self-made" that picture got really confused over the places in Baku
Historical revisionist theory
The theory that the name Azerbaijan has anything to do with Turkic is historical revisionism. Firstly, it does not explain why the term Azarbaijan, Azarpadegan, and Atropatene were used, thousands of years (Atropatene, Azarpadegan) and centuries (Azarbaijan) before the Turkic peoples even got there? Historical revisionism, ordered during the time of the Soviets (direct orders from Stalin), to do several things: a)making sure the history of Azerbaijan has nothing to do with Iran, b) rewrite the history of the territory and the newly formed republic. Secondly, the Az people the Turkic theory is referring to is a pure lie. There was only one Az people in the Near East/Eurasia, a people that had nothing to do with the region. Also, the name Azerbaijani was only invented in the 1890's by the Russians to distinguish Turkic peoples of Iranic descent from other Turkic peoples. Again, this does not explain the "Az" people reference. This theory is pure historical revisionism. I'm taking it out. Furthermore, the name Azerbaijan is the Turkified version of Azarbaijan, because the Turkic languages cannot prounce Azar, therefore, again, this shows that there is no way the name Azerbaijan was original.Khosrow II 22:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- Where are these stories written? In your nationalistic, the one and the only source iranica encyclopedia(?) or fairy tales from Andersen?
You say the history of Azerbaijan has nothing to do with Iran There are 23,5 millions Azeri Turks in Iran. These peoples have the same language, culture and ethnicity with Azerbaijan. --Karcha 22:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
- The history of the R. of Azerbaijan has nothing to do with Iran. The history of the R. of Azerbaijan begins in 1918 to present. The Caucasus's history is definetly tied with Irans. Arran, Shirvan, Ganja, etc... were part of Iran for thousands of years before Russia invaded. What are you talking about?Khosrow II 22:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
New Map
Suggest someone run down the blank for the Georgia (country) map, and colorize for this state. See Image:Europe location GEO.png, Actually cropping that to right side is even better thought. Don't need Western Europe, just the Balkans. Best regards // FrankB 00:37, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
- I think that's actually a great idea. I wish I had checked this talk page before reverting the map to the old one. Your suggestion seems to be a compromise that should make everyone happy -- a higher resolution, detailed map without any unnecessary political connotations. I'll try to get to work on your suggestion with Photoshop later tonight. Thanks. Adlerschloß 21:58, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
- Holidays, etc. unfortunately had me too busy to get to this as quickly as I had expected, but the map is uploaded now and I'm about to add it to the article. Adlerschloß 15:24, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Conflict regarding the o--alidoostzadeh 09:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)rigins and legitimacy of Azerbaijan's name
1. I added a new sentence saying that the Republic was called Azerbaijan before, paraphrasing the sentence coming before it. 2. I removed two paragraphs. First of them (that the Bolsheviks kept the name because they wanted iran) refer to an obscure pan-Iranian web page and an ideologically motivated article, which cannot be neutral and is not. This is against the rules of Wikipedia. And the second one, claiming that Resulzade was regretting the choice of the name, is very selective. He was a politician and could have said something like that at one point. Yet he devoted his entire life to Azerbaijan, both in name and substance. The organizations he created in exile, the periodicals he published, all of them bear the name of Azerbaijan, mainly referring to today’s Republic of Azerbaijan. It was a misinformation to insert such a paragraph. And instead of adding pages from Resulzade’s life, I thought a better idea would be to remove it. Since coming out of context, that paragraph’s only aim is to further the claim of the person who inserted it to the page, that Azerbaijan is a fake/political name chosen for the Republic. Thanks. Elnurso 17:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
- Read Wikipedia rules. POV is not allowed. And its funny, you even tried DISTORTING A QUOTE!Azerbaijani
Yes, read Wikipedia rules; misinformation, specifically that which comes due to bias, is vandalism. As to the quote, the change didn't make it wrong. It just changed it so that it cannot be used to make an ideological point. Good luck. Elnurso 16:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
- DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT SOURCED INFORMATION IS? Stop your POV editing!Azerbaijani 17:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I do. Probably I published more scientific pieces than you did. Do you know what "unreliable source" and "selective citation out of context" are? Of course you do, it is just the ideology that makes you overlook them. Unfortunate. And yes, if you are not tired of disseminating misinformation how can I be tired of correcting it? Thanks. Elnurso 16:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- You cannot include a section based solely on Iranian nationalistic sources and claim neutrality. The bias of sources called "Pan-Turanianism Takes Aim at Azerbaijan: A Geopolitical Agenda" screams from their titles. Please mind WP:NPOV. Grandmaster 18:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- Facts are facts. DO NOT DELETE THE WHOLE SECTION AGAIN BECAUSE YOU DO NOT LIKE IT. There is something suspicious going on because as I see, it has been there a long time and you havent done such a thing. Maybe you and Elnurso are the same person and you accidentally logged in with the wrong account? IF YOU DO THIS AGAIN I WILL REPORT YOU. If you notice, there is already a tag up. Do not delete this again!Azerbaijani 19:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- The info in that section is not based on reliable sources. All the sources used are Iranian, i.e. they have obvious bias. I removed it before, but it was readded by some Iranian users. Please use neutral sources to support your claims. Grandmaster 19:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- A tag is already up! Read your talk page. I may take this into arbitration and you know as well as I do that you will not be able to hold out with your reason. Sources are sources, and you evident racism is despicable. A tag is already up, you have no justification for your action. I will make sure the correct action is taken against you if you continue.Azerbaijani 19:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- First of all, mind Wikipedia:Civility. Accusing others of racism for no obvious reason is not gonna help you. Second, sources should be reliable, and those used in this section are not. So you are welcome to try any dispute resolution procedures, I'm willing to cooperate, as I've done before. Grandmaster 20:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- I know about civility, and its obvious that you have some bias against Iranian sources... I dont know whether that is out of racism or if you just do not like what you are reading. What are you talking about these sources are not reliable? BOTH ARE PROFESSORS AT WESTERN UNIVERSITIES. Kaveh Farrokh is a very well known historian and has even appeared on teh history channel. There is no way you can hold up your case that these sources are not reliable. I think you should mind wikipedia's rules against disruptive editing and vandalism!
- First of all, mind Wikipedia:Civility. Accusing others of racism for no obvious reason is not gonna help you. Second, sources should be reliable, and those used in this section are not. So you are welcome to try any dispute resolution procedures, I'm willing to cooperate, as I've done before. Grandmaster 20:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- These are professional historians you are talking about. If these sources are not reliable, then please tell me what are reliable sources! You have not even proved that these sources are unreliable, who says you get to decide what is reliable and what is not? THERE IS ALREADY A DISPUTE TAG AT THE TOP OF THE SECTION, SO YOU HAVE NO CASE.Azerbaijani 20:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- I suggest you check Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Also we can try dispute resolution. Grandmaster 20:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- In my opinion you should stop removing sourced information, and instead present the information in a way that both points of view can be seen. --Rayis 22:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- Atabaki is very reliable source and the Persian text of correspondence between Rasul zadeh and Taqi zadeh exists. But I suggest the naming issue should just refer to the History of the name of Azerbaijan. --alidoostzadeh 09:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
First of all, this page about the history of and modern Azerbaijan. There is page in Wiki called 'History of the name Azerbaijan" where the section under discussion should be moved. Then, the NPOV, reliability of sources can be discussed there.
- I agree with Ali. I think that the name is not the most important issue about Azerbaijan. It is enough to provide a link to the History of the name of Azerbaijan article in the etimology section, where everyone can refer for more details about the name. That article reflects all existing views on the issue, which is impossible to fit in the format of this article, which provides only brief overview of the country. Grandmaster 11:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Dear Pan-Iranians,
One does not have to have a high level of IQ to see how selective you are in your choices of information from the pages of history and how you paraphrase them to fit the ultimate goal of yours: that the Republic of Azerbaijan is a fake entity. I really do not care even if we got the name 50 years ago, Resulzade was aplogizing for it, etc. What matters for us, people living in that land, is the well being of the people there, that is it. I am extremely amused by the fact that, Iranians, forgetting about putting their house into order, failing to create a decent society in such a culturally and economically rich area, ending up with one of the most ridiculously heart-breaking societal and political institutions in the entire world, still spend time and money to spoil other people's day by attacking their identity. Every identity emerged at one point in time. Every name emerged at one point in time. America? France? Turkey? Coming to the fore 1000 years ago or 100 years ago; why should that matter? Mind your own business guys.
And the point is that you do not have good faith. You have a political agenda in negating today's republic. That is, listen carefully please, you are not removing someting that in anyway touches Iran or falsifies anything any normal Iranian cares about, rather, you are ADDING things to this webpage to claim that Republic of Azerbaijan is fake in name and of course, by the same token, substance.
I will check Tadeusz Swietochowski's quote, i do not have the book with me now. So I leave it untouched. But please do not remove my citation from Velikhanli; I can send the book's copy or the translation thereof if you want to. And hey, I don't know Grandmaster, probably he is just a decent fellow guy. And our presence here is spontaneous; this is our country. That is very different from your artificially organized interventions. And that is why our natural determination will overwhelm any kind of fake stubbornness on your side. Thanks. Elnurso 19:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Save your time about the Tadeusz Swietochowski quote, your friend Grandmaster put that in there I believe. Facts are facts, both of you continuously take out facts and bring up horrible reasons for them. I know they teach you different where you come from, neither of you can dispute the facts. So I suggest you stop removing such information just because it is not to your liking.Azerbaijani 19:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- It was indeed me who provided the quote from Swietochowski in response to claims of some of our Iranian friends that the territory north of Araks was never called Azerbaijan. Swietochowski says that the northern part of Azerbaijan was known at times (i.e. not always) as Albania and Arran, but it is one geographic area, stretching from the northern slopes of the Caucasus Mountains along the Caspian Sea to the Iranian plateau. I think he’s absolutely right. Grandmaster 19:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Exactly, so why dont you revert Elnurso when he rewrites the quote? Why do you wait for me to do it? Its as if both of you are working together to trap me in some way here. But atleast thanks for telling this guy the truth so he'll stop is blanking!Azerbaijani 20:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- As far as I can see he adds his own quote in addition to mine, but you remove it without any explanation. Grandmaster 20:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Exactly, so why dont you revert Elnurso when he rewrites the quote? Why do you wait for me to do it? Its as if both of you are working together to trap me in some way here. But atleast thanks for telling this guy the truth so he'll stop is blanking!Azerbaijani 20:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Grandmaster,
Honestly I did paraphrase the sentence that is referenced to Swietochowski ragrding the name before. I didn't and still do not know whether it was an exact quote; that was one reason (please let me know if it is, i do not have the book with me right now). And secondly, the unprovoked spoilers created such a semantic context around the quotation that it looks as if it supports their irrelevant argument. But please keep an eye on it so that they do not play with the exact prhase. Take care and nice to talk to you. Elnurso 16:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
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