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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 120.29.67.52 (talk) at 13:12, 21 November 2020 (→Discussion about changing to past tense). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Requested move 13 May 2020

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as originally proposed. We are at a standoff in this discussion because two inherently contradictory proposals have been made, and both have about the same proportion of support. Clearly, we can't move ABS-CBN (TV network) to ABS-CBN, as there is a clear consensus in one discussion to make ABS-CBN a disambiguation page; but we can't move ABS-CBN (disambiguation) to ABS-CBN, as there is a clear consensus in the other discussion that the network is the primary topic of ABS-CBN. However, since the status quo ante is that the network is the primary topic of the term, evidenced by the redirect already pointing there, I am closing with the consensus effecting the least amount of change to the status quo, which is the original proposal. BD2412 T 20:09, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ABS-CBN (TV network) → ABS-CBN – The disambiguation is no longer needed as per WP:COMMONNAME and Talk:ABS-CBN Corporation#Requested move 5 May 2020. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 23:44, 13 May 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Sceptre (talk) 07:15, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment seemes like Gonnym had reverted my redirect. By the way, I am sorting through the links (before the revert, and still am) that are coming through to ABS-CBN with my alt account, RobertskySemi, using AWB. As I begin to add more replacement rules after an initial run, I am beginning to think that this is no longer a straightforward decision of deciding which page the redirect should be pointing to. The redirect has been used to describe multiple ABS-CBN affiliated entities across 3,000+ pages, rules like [[ABS-CBN|ABS-CBN International]], [[ABS-CBN|Star Studio]], [[ABS-CBN|Push.com]], \[\[ABS-CBN\|(ABS-CBN( (Corporation|Channel 2|International|Entertainment|Foundation|Network|News)|news\.com))\]\]
As such, now I think ABS-CBN should be a disambiguation page, probably taking on the list of entities as listed at List of assets owned by ABS-CBN. robertsky (talk) 05:55, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just for the record, I reverted you as incoming links should be fixed before changing a redirect target. --Gonnym (talk) 06:06, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Gonnym: I am on my last leg to fix the links in the main space. There are 700+ pages in the other namespaces to ABS-CBN. What's your advise on dealing with those? robertsky (talk) 05:46, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'd fix anything in the Book, Category, Draft, File, Module, Portal and Template namespaces. Leaving User and Project and Talk. --Gonnym (talk) 09:07, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done. 600+ pages left which are mostly in the various Talk namespaces. robertsky (talk) 16:59, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate proposal

Make ABS-CBN a disambiguation page instead. This is supported by Quidquidlatetadparebit (point made above) and Robertsky.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Verb tense

Should the Network be referred to in the past tense or present tense in this Wikipedia article inspite losing its Congressional franchise? iamdumdum (talk) 11:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I would prefer present tense for now because there's no confirmation from the corporation itself as of yet and personally, I don't predict the future or don't know anything about this but maybe we'll wait for further announcements. CruzRamiss2002 (talk) 14:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • While WP:NOTCRYSTALBALL holds true in this situation. The corporation and the network franchise are separate entities. At the moment the corporation still exists but the franchise has been rejected (if you look at the corporation page ABS-CBN Corporation you will see it is still in present tense). One suggestion I made was to add a CURRENT tag after having set it to past tense. I am in favor of using the past tense for this article. Sabaybayin (talk) 01:42, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The TV network still exists but they cannot broadcast through free-to-air means due to the denial of their franchise renewal. The transmitters are still owned by ABS-CBN. Therefore, "is" is the correct verb tense here. The TV network did not technically dissolve due to the franchise denial. Now, if ABS-CBN TV network is sold to a different entity and decided to rename it, you can use the "was" verb since the new network will not use the ABS-CBN name anymore. Just my two cents. -WayKurat (talk) 15:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The ABS-CBN name is not the question here, but the existence of the network itself. How can they lay claim to the name itself if their franchise to operate does not exist? Also, while a channel at its present form may be deemed non-existent or succeeded via its sale to other company or via nationalization by the government, these are corporate events that already fall under the discussions of ABS-CBN Corporation (and with that view, I do agree with Sabaybayin that the corporation and the network are separate entities as far a television broadcast organization is concerned), it can also end its existence by the mere termination of its operations even without the changing of hands. I believe we have to settle with the fact that since they have not been granted any license/franchise, they are already deemed history. This might be hard to imagine because denial of broadcast franchise has not happened yet in the Philippines (and thus, no examples are available to cite), but just by looking at the status quo, we can see how much has changed for ABS-CBN and what it says about its very existence. YX1 (talk) 02:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retain the use of the present tense. The use of the past tense will only apply if ABS-CBN has already closed shop/ ceased operations in full. ABS-CBN has no indications of shutting down despite the franchise denial. Reyrefran (talk) 22:42, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The ABS-CBN has already ceased operations in full and has all available indications of shutting down. No right to transmission, no operations, and thus, ABS-CBN as a channel/network is already non-existent. But of course, ABS-CBN as a corporation did not close its operations yet; it is still fully operational and uses other platforms to make its programs available. However, as far as over-the-air broadcasts of the corporation is concerned, the gravity of the situation is pretty much obvious now. YX1 (talk) 02:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Change to past tense. ABS-CBN as a network has already been denied license. The implications of which is that the network cannot use the transmitters because they have no right to the frequency previously allotted to them. License is a pre-condition for NTC to be able to restore ABS-CBN's use of the frequency. Consequently, they have lost their viability to exist as a network. Also, this situation has been implicitly affirmed by the ABS-CBN itself by stopping TV Plus channels' operations and by launching Kapamilya Channel on cable and satellite television providers in lieu of ABS-CBN. We can always change it back to present tense once either the Supreme Court or a new Congress re-grants ABS-CBN a license to operate. YX1 (talk) 02:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong retention of the present tense: The lede has been edited to show ABS-CBN's pivot to the new media after the franchise rejection, and with this, the reference to free-to-air television has been removed. ABS-CBN is not yet dead!
  • "ABS-CBN (an initialism of its two predecessors' names, Alto Broadcasting System and Chronicle Broadcasting Network) is a Philippine television and new media network that serves as the flagship property of ABS-CBN Corporation, a company under the Lopez Group." Reyrefran (talk) 07:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retain the use of the present tense: Only the network's broadcasting activities has been suspended (due to the expiration of its NTC license to operate and the subsequent non-renewal by the Philippine Congress of the its franchise). Most of its programming has resumed through TFC, Kapamilya Channel, ANC, iWant, TeleRadyo and its social media accounts. iamdumdum (talk) 08:03, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment and question: Is the article really focused on the network (the Channel 2 specifically)? I thought this is supposed to be discussing about the newtwork itself. If "new media network" is to be considered, should it be better discussed at the parent company's article? Otherwise the recent RM's to rename ABS-CBN into ABS-CBN Corporation and ABS-CBN (TV network) into ABS-CBN (both of which I supported) would come into waste. Any attempts of modifying info to include the "new media" context should take into consideration to what this article really means and discusses. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 02:18, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Discussion about my Edits (Defunct)

Hi, my edit here as of November 16, 2020 04:35 (UTC) was undo last November 16, 2020 09:43 (UTC) so I replaced it as of November 17, 2020 03:53 (UTC) because ABS-CBN is already a defunct channel. As you see, other articles have this message: ABS-CBN (defunct), but the channel still broadcast on Facebook and YouTube. If you want to undo my edit, write the reason why below here. Thanks! 120.29.67.62 (talk) 04:12 (UTC) , 17 November 2020

There's no need to add the |broadcast_area= parameter for major networks such as GMA and TV5 because there's already have a |available= parameter as they are almost exact the same and not all articles that uses the Template:Infobox broadcasting network have the |broadcast_area= parameter in it. The parameter you've added is only intended for articles that uses the Template:Infobox television channel. CruzRamiss2002 (talk) 15:13, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Noted! I transferred it to |availability= parameter and it was edit as Defunct. If any additional changes to my edits, please write the reason why below here.Thank You! Former IP Address: 120.29.67.62 (talk) Now IP Address: 111.125.188.18 (talk) 02:57 (UTC) , 18 November 2020

Discussion about changing to past tense

Hi, why wont the network changed to past tense like for example: ABS-CBN was a Philippine commercial television and new media network? I saw this note at the editing area saying "Do not change to past tense. Network is just indefinitely suspended." Indefinitely Suspended means that the network ABS-CBN is longer suspended or not broadcasting, or in other words Defunct. Will we change it to past tense or not because the note in the editing area is not good for other users to read it. Thank You! 120.29.67.52 (talk) 10:46, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This topic is already discussed under the Verb Tense heading of this talk page. Please discuss it under that heading. iamdumdum (talk) 11:28, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What Verb Tense heading of this talk page? 120.29.67.52 (talk) 13:12, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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