Jump to content

Talk:Jacob Chansley

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Amandashusse (talk | contribs) at 20:25, 10 January 2021 (→False conspiracy theory?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Sources

Some sources to make the page:

https://conandaily.com/2021/01/07/jake-angeli-biography-13-things-about-q-shaman-from-phoenix-arizona/

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/who-is-the-horned-man-who-stormed-the-capitol/news-story/de6853d19e8681a04aa0ee50c6e52b10

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/07/jake-angeli-qanon-shaman-arizona-heart-capitol-riots/

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2096968/qanon-shaman-jake-angeli-capitol/

https://www.thefocus.news/business/jake-angeli/

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2021/01/06/arizona-qanon-supporter-jake-angeli-joins-storming-u-s-capitol/6568513002/

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2019/09/20/climate-change-march-downtown-phoenix-global-youth-climate-strike/2357094001/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.237.30 (talk) 00:09, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

--Topjur01 (talk) 14:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Possible WP:WPNOTRS problems, but in case useful, some links from prior to the Capitol storming:
https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-ddgys-c51af9
https://www.linkedin.com/in/yellowstone-wolf-246aa7174/
Jonathan Deamer (talk) 10:26, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tattoos

Given that he has a number of tattoos, and there are at least 3 articles that are written about them, including two specifically (including a rolling stone article), while a section/paragraph on them may seem too much, I have included one line addressing that in the content of the article, just mentioning what that are. Does this seem fair? ping Another Believer Tomaatje12 Deathlibrarian (talk) 05:28, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's already in the article with plenty of sources. The Rolling Stone article is pretty poor quality—I recommend just using what we're already citing. :bloodofox: (talk) 06:13, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I may be going blind:bloodofox:, but I can't see any reference to Tattoos in the article. I would have expected them to be in the text that speaks about his appearance (headress, etc) Could you let me know what section are you seeing it in? If its already in there and referenced, that's fine with me but if not, I would like to add a reference. Thanks! Deathlibrarian (talk) 06:44, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This was in a note, but I've brought it into the body. :bloodofox: (talk) 07:44, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.that's great. Deathlibrarian (talk) 07:53, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image?

I'm not seeing any images of Angeli at Wikimedia Commons. Other ideas for where to find one? ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:38, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use the viking helmet one. From the FBI wanted poster, I think makes it suitable Kingsif (talk) 00:00, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
He has become a Facebook meme. [[1]] [[2]] Agnerf (talk) 05:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just because it appears on an FBI poster doesn't automatically mean the photo can be used. Not everything which appears on a US government website or which is put out by a US government agency is automatically within the public domain for the reasons explained in WP:PD#US government works. If the photo was taken by someone other than a US government employee, then there's a good chance it would be protected by copyright which means the WP:CONSENT of the creator would be needed. That's the problem with the photo being currently used in the infobox and which is why it's almost certain to end up deleted. It's also unlikely that any photo of Angeli would meet all ten non-free content criteria, particularly WP:NFCC#1, because non-free photos of still living persons are almost never allowed. The best chance of find a freely licensed photo is probably to look for one on Flickr. Given the number of people who were there at the time and the fact that many of them were probably taking photos with their smart phones, there's a good chance that someone took a photo of him and uploaded it to Flickr under a license that Wikipedia accepts. It's also possible that someone took a photo of him some other time and uploaded it to their Flickr account. Pretty much any photo you find of him in a newspaper, etc. is going to likely be copyrighted and not released under a license Wikipedia can use; so, social media accounts like Flickr might be the best chance of getting a free one. Other possibility is that he ends up in federal court and some court employee takes his photo or the US government releases a photo that it has taken. -- Marchjuly (talk) 15:22, 9 January 2021 (UTC); [Note: Post edited by Marchjuly to add the word “everything” (underlined) to the second sentence. — 21:29, 9 January 2021 (UTC)][reply]
I have photos of him taken myself, although not at the capitol. 68.2.252.139 (talk) 19:10, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Appearance at Capitol not required. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:11, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Any opposition to archiving this section since the infobox now has an image? ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:10, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No objection, but I'm not sure there's a real need to manually archive it any faster than it would be done if the page was set up to automatically archive itself. Maybe {{Discussion top}} would be better. On a separate note, it might be better instead to figure out whether this article falls under WP:ACDS for the same reasons that 2021 storming of the United States Capitol as well as adding some of the warning banners added to the top of Talk:2021 storming of the United States Capitol to this talk page too. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:27, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please allow 60-90 days for threads to be archived. This talk page may grow, but that is better than rehashing the same conversations over and over, because as we all know, nobody reads archives. Elizium23 (talk) 01:28, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just considered this a resolved issue, that's all. No prob leaving alone! ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:50, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the image, which, although it was croppeed from a DC Metro Police document, was taken from an image shown in this NYT article credited to Erin Schiff, and is thus not under a free license.

A lower-resolution version of the same image might be eligible for WP:FAIRUSE here, but this is not it. A freely-licensed image would be best; does anyone have one? -- The Anome (talk) 15:37, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'd actually ask if @Calibrador: has any? Political rallies in Arizona almost seems certain. Kingsif (talk) 18:31, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

False allegations

Hi all, there have been some false claims made about him - firstly the Trump camp have claimed he is not one of theirs, and is an antifa plant. This is clearly untrue, as he has a long history of support for Trump and Qanon. Also claims he was connected to Nancy Pellossi. Both these claims have been refuted by snopes. Deathlibrarian (talk) 08:07, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch version

I translated the version to Dutch on the Dutch wiki. I mainly used sources from this page. Tomaatje12 (talk) 17:32, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work, the others are a bit brief.. If there's going to be an article, may as well make it above stub status. Deathlibrarian (talk) 05:30, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2021

Editing his birthdate, it's reported that he is born 1988, He was born July 1st 1987. According to this public record found in my life dot com Neptunedits (talk) 21:37, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done see WP:RS Kingsif (talk) 21:41, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/press-release/file/1351941/download -- Iape (talk) 22:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tattoos and clothing

Since Angeli is dressed in distinctive clothing and facepaint, I've seen a fair amount of discussion about this in media sources. Some of this is contradictory, and much of it ill-informed. For example, although some media sources refer to his choice of headwear as a "viking hat", it is certainly not that, and instead seems to be patterned after varities of Native American headware (for example Blackfoot_Confederacy#Headdresses). Angeli also has several tattoos, some of them evidently of a wall motif (Trump?), some of them inspired by the medieval Scandinavian archaeological record, and some of them of some kind of other design that I have yet to see commentary on. Exactly what is the deal with this guy is anybody's guess, but we should resist the temptation to insert ill-informed speculation from freelancers on the article, and make sure that the articles we do cite actually say what use them to reference The most in-depth analysis of what is going on with this guy I've seen so far is actually from the Wild Hunt. :bloodofox: (talk) 23:07, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree - however, we can state facts: the tattoos are definitely Norse designs for instance (they are clearly identifiably Yggdrasil, Mjolnir, and the valknut). As you say, *Why* he has them may be speculation - and I have seen both the left and right criticising him for them, and endeavoring to interpret them. There is clearly some misinterpretation, where the Valknut tattos is being compared to a vaguely similiar triangular pedophile symbol At worst, repeating speculation about what his tattoos mean without a corroborating RS could be defamatory and we should of course be aware of WP:BIO. I would suspect there is probably RS where he explains the wall tattoo on his arms are representing "Trump's mexican wall", but I don't know for sure. Completely agree about the hat, more likely First Nation influence than Viking. Deathlibrarian (talk) 02:48, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2021 (2)

When asked about her son's views, Chansley told ABC15 Arizona that "it takes a lot of courage to be a patriot",[9] and says he is a Navy veteran.[10] Angeli says that prior to his political activity he worked as an actor and voice-over artist.[11] Chansley wrote about his use of psychoactive and psychedelic plants and his belief that wider use of them were necessary to address social issues [12]. In addition to his psychedelic advocacy, Chansley offered paid consultations via his Star Seed Academy on New Age topics such as ascension and "exiting the death matrix".[12] Obsidianskull (talk) 16:14, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What? Kingsif (talk) 18:06, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done I assume the user is making a "change X to Y" request without providing "X" (which you can see at Special:Permalink/999537265#Early life). As the two new sources provided in the above "Y" do not appear to be reliable secondary sources, I don't see a need for any change. We don't need to give this man more of a forum by covering beliefs of his that news media have not widely discussed. — Bilorv (talk) 18:39, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

False conspiracy theory?

I think the word "false" is superfluous. The Wikipedia article on Conspiracy theory is quite clear that a Conspiracy theory is always a falsehood. Amandashusse (talk) 20:16, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Some conspiracy theories end up being true; this particular one has been proven to be wrong, however, which is why I think it's worth specifying. — Czello 20:18, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Very few seem to be proven true. As a matter of fact I can't think of a single one right now. Amandashusse (talk) 20:24, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Movements such as?

Antifa and Black Lives Matter are quite different types of organisations, or movements if you like. Therefore I think that lumping them together in the sentence "Misinformation spread on the Internet that Angeli supports movements such as Antifa or Black Lives Matter" is wrong. I suggest rewording it something like this: "Misinformation spread on the Internet that Angeli supports movements with ideas vastly far from Qanon. Both Antifa and Black Lives Matter have been mentioned in this context". Amandashusse (talk) 20:22, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jacob_Chansley&oldid=999560221"