Jump to content

Dhangar

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The printable version is no longer supported and may have rendering errors. Please update your browser bookmarks and please use the default browser print function instead.
This article is about the pastoral community in Maharashtra and Goa. For the similarly-named tribe and language found in Jharkhand, West Bengal, Odisha and Chhattisgarh - Dhangad (tribe) and Dhangar (Kurukh language dialect), see Dhangar (disambiguation). For the town in Sagar district, India, see Dhangar, Madhya Pradesh.

The Dhangars are caste of people found in the Indian states of Maharashtra, northern Karnataka, Goa, Madhya Pradesh . They are referred to as Gavli Dhangars in northern Maharashtra (Khandesh region) and the forested hill tracts of India's Western Ghats,[1][2][3][4] there are many distinct Gavli castes in Maharashtra and Dhangar Gavli is one of them.[5][6][7]

History

Etymology

The word "Dhangar" is inscribed in a Buddhist cave in Pune district of Maharashtra. It is believed that this inscription has its origin between the first and the third century AD. Multiple theories have been proposed for the origin of the word Dhangar. It may be associated with a term for "cattle wealth". Bhagwan Lal Indraji maintains that it is derived from Sanskrit word Dhang which means hill.[8] Syed Siraj-Ul-Hassan noted that some people of his time believed the term to come from the Sanskrit "dhenugar" ("cattle herder") but dismissed that etymology as being "fictitious".[9] In Kannada, the word Danagãra means cowherd and is derived from Dana which means cattle. Dana is the tadbhava of Dhana, which comes from Go-dhana which means cattle in Sanskrit.[10]

According to Shamba Joshi, Hatakara-Dhanagara (Hatkar-Dhangar) is a compound of two words of the same meaning. [11]

Subdivisions

Initially there were twelve tribes of Dhangar, and they had a division of labour amongst brothers of one family. The nation around Hingoli was called Bara-Hatti which means country of twelve Hatkar-Dhangars. These twelve tribes later formed three sub-divisions and one half-division. These three being Hatkar (shepherd), Gavli or Dange (cowherd) and Khutekar (wool and blanket weaver)/Sangar. All sub-castes fall in either of these divisions.[12][13]

Historical migrations

The archaeological evidence and ethnographic data suggest that the contemporary Dhangar castes are the result of more than one migration from North-West India, between 4000 and 10000 BC.[3] The density and distribution patterns of the different groups of Dhangars seem to have been guided by the suitability of the region for the sustenance of the animals that they traditionally maintained and the products of those animals on which the specific groups subsisted. Ethno-historic investigations among the Dhangars suggest that the Kannade, Unnikankan and Kurmar who speak Kannada were originally from Karnataka and might have migrated to the present habitats in Maharashtra at different points of time. Whereas Hatkar, Zende, Thellari and Dange trace their origin to a single caste in the remote past, Shegars or Sagar Rajputs claim that they have nothing to do with the Dhangars and are descendants from Rajputs of Rajasthan. Ahirs speak "Ahrani", also known as Gavli boli,[14] a mixed dialect of Gujarati and Marathi and are closely related to the Ladshe and Dange who have supposedly come from Gujarat. On the other hand, Gadhari-Nikhar and Gadhari-Dhangar, having migrated from North India, speak Sanskrit and Hindi. Telangi speaks Telugu and probably migrated from Andhra Pradesh, the remaining groups speak Marathi.[3][15]

Past occupation

The Gavli or Dange Dhangars found in the coastal strip practiced cattle/buffalo/sheep herding and shifting cultivation.[1] ahir, Halmat, Khutekar, Kurmar-Unnikankan, Mendhe, Shegar, Telangi, Unnikankan and Zade herded sheep and wove woolen blankets. Dhangar, Hande, Hatkar, Hattikankan, Kannade, Kurmar-hattikankan and Zende reared only Sheep. However, Hatkars in Sangli district also maintained cattle and some Zendes used to maintain ponies. Thellaris herded both sheep and cattle. Sangars were weavers of woolen blankets.[16][17][18] In the past, some Dhangars were Inamdars and some were tenure-holders, holding lands either by a share or by paying a lump sum for a certain period.[19]

Ponies used by Dhangar tribe of Maharashtra

Dhangars were also known for producing fine breeds of cattle and ponies. Khillari cattle, a mixture with a breed of Mysore, was pioneered by a Dhangar of Nashik named Gowdia who owned cattle in Mysore state.[20] Similarly, Dhangar or Khilari pony is considered the best breed of ponies in Deccan. It is believed that their superior excellence is due to the Dhangar's practice of castrating them.[21]

Role in the Maratha Empire

Dhangars are noted for their martial qualities. A large number of Shivaji's most trusted Mawalas or Maratha footmen were West-Pune Dhangars.[22] On the other hand, Hatkar Dhangars, who are found mainly in the former Nizam state, especially in Nanded, Parbhani and Vidarbha, are known as Bargi Dhangars or "shepherds with the spears" and were perhaps Bargirs or mounted troopers during the time of the Maratha Empire. However, Bargi or Bande Dhangar is a distinct sub-caste from them.[22][23] Hatkars were in the army of Shivaji in large numbers and were known for their bravery in the Maratha Empire. "Naik" and "Rao" were the titles given to them. Hatkars were a dread to others and even Nizam was afraid of them. It is on the historical record that for restraining the Hatkars, Nizam had sought help from the British Indian army.[23] While some sources claim Malhar Rao Holkar, Founder of the Maratha Indore state, belonged to the Hatkar Dhangar sub-caste, the bakhars of Holkar dynasty say that he was a Khutekar Dhangar.[24]

"The three great tribes which compose the Maratha caste are the Kunbi or farmer, The Dhangar or shepherd, and the Goala or cowherd. To this original cause may perhaps be ascribed that great simplicity of manner which distinguishes the Maratha people".[25][26]

— Colonel Tone, Commander of a regiment in the Peshwa's army in 1798

In fact, the word "Maratha" in its narrower use is applied to a society in which Rajputs or quasi-Rajputs, at the top, with Kunbis (farmers), Dhangars (shepherds), and Goalas (cowherds) practise hypergamy, each group taking wives from the one below, causing a superfluity of women at the top and a scarcity at the bottom of the social scale.[27]

— John Henry Hutton, former chair of William Wyse Professor of Social Anthropology at the University of Cambridge

Relationship with Yadavs

According to the 1891 Census of India, the pastoral class of Indian population was divided into two groups. First group was called cattle graziers which included Ahirs, Gopas, Gawali and Golla. The second group was called shepherds which included Gadaria, Dhangars, Kuruba, Idaiyan, Bharwad and Rabari.[28]

In the early 1920s, the leaders from the North Indian Ahir and the Maharashtrian Gavli which were ritually considered as lower castes and formed the bulk of landless peasants in Gangetic plains, founded All India Yadav Mahasabha (AIYM) in order to lay claims to Yadava identity through sanskritisation of their constituents and by re-imagining a glorified past based on a fabricated descent from the mythical Yadu. Many castes across India adopted Yadav as the last name, illustrating claimed descent from Yadu. They also started practicing vegetarianism and teetotalism. Various communities, all over India, who were traditionally involved in cattle related occupations enthusiastically followed these recommendations.[29] This effort was part of the process of Sanskritization and Aryanization.[30][31][29]

Dhangar society in India includes Dhangars in Maharashtra and Goa, Gadaria in North India, Bharwad in Gujarat, and Kuruba both in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh. However, Dhangar Gavli is a distinct caste from Yadav Gavli in Maharashtra and Goa.[1][32][9] Moreover, Ahirs of Maharashtra prefer to be known as Ahir Dhangars and Marathas of Indore (Madhya Pradesh), like Holkars, call themselves Dhangar gadaria. In North India the gadaria, who call themselves dhangar, were at one time a wing of Dhangar society. Ahir is one of the gotra of Dhangars.[33]

Rajputisation attempt

The Shegar Dhangars, also known as Sagar Rajputs, were previously identified as shepherd by occupation and Shudra by Varna but later they changed their surname to Rajput and started wearing sacred thread.[34][35]


Culture

Khandoba (literally "father swordsman"), the guardian deity of the Deccan is the favorite god of the caste and is worshiped every Sunday and on Saturday – the light sixth of Margashirsha day – with offerings of sweetmeats. Vithoba of Pandharpur is worshiped daily in every household.[36][37] Biroba and Mhaskoba are other popular gods amongst Dhangars.[38][39]

Gaja Nach, which literally means the dance of elephant, is a traditional dance of the Dhangars. Since it is considered auspicious, the dance is also performed at the time of temple festivals. The dancers also hold colorful scarves which when moved in a swaying manner suggest the fanning of elephant's ears.[40]

Dhangari Ovi is a type of folk singing, which is about women's work songs and the epic-length performances of Dhangars, in which sung verses alternate with narrative passages in prose.[41]

Current situation

Traditionally being shepherds, cowherds, buffalo keepers, blanket and wool weavers, butchers and farmers, the Dhangars were late to take up modern-day education. In Maharashtra, the Dhangars are classified as a Nomadic Tribe but in 2014 were seeking to be reclassified as a Scheduled Tribe in India's system of reservation.[42] The Dhangar community's population in Maharashtra is around 1.5 crore, which is 13% of the total 11.25 crore (112.5 million) population of the state. Devendra Fadnavis, former Chief Minister of Maharashtra, had said that "The situation of the Dhangars in some areas of the state was worse than that of Scheduled Tribes, and the government was committed to providing them reservation under the ST category".[43]

Reservation

As per India's system of reservation, Dhangars are classified as Other Backward Class in Goa,[44] Karnataka,[45] Gujarat,[46] Madhya Pradesh,[47] Chhattisgarh,[48] Uttar Pradesh,[49][50] Uttarakhand[51] and Delhi.[52] In Maharashtra, they are classified as a Nomadic Tribe, which comes under Other Backward Class category.[15][53][54]

Dhangar vs Dhangad issue in Uttar Pradesh and Maharashtra

Dhangar (shepherds) is a sub-caste of the Gadaria caste in Delhi, Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh, the Kuruba caste in Karnataka and the Bharwad caste in Gujarat.[47][52][48][45][46] Gadaria, Kuruba are classified as Other Backward Class in those respective states while Bharwad is classified as Scheduled Tribe in Gujarat, in India's system of reservation.[51][49] In Maharashtra, the Dhangars come under Nomadic Tribe category within the larger Other Backward Class category.[15][53][54] On the other hand, Dhangad (cultivators), also known as Oraon, Dhanka and Dom, are listed as Scheduled Tribes in the states of Maharashtra, Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh and Orissa. In Bihar, Jharkhand and West Bengal Dhangad or Dom is listed as Scheduled Caste whereas Oraon as Scheduled Tribe.[55][56]

According to the 27th report of Standing Committee on Labour and Welfare with regards to SCs and STs order (Second Amendment) Bill, 2002:[57]

There are two distinct communities having similar nomenclature, one is Dhangad which is a sub-group of Oraon, a Scheduled Tribe appearing at S.No..36 of the List of Scheduled Tribes. The traditional occupation of this community is cultivation. There is another community known as 'Dhangar' whose traditional occupation is cattle rearing and weaving of woolens. The 'Dhangad' and the 'Dhangar' are two distinct communities having no ethnic affinity at all. The Dhangars who are shepherds have been notified as Nomadic tribe in the State of Maharashtra. Therefore, there is no printing mistake in the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Amendment) Act, 1976 through which the Constitution (Scheduled Tribes) Order, 1950 was amended.

On 17 January 2019, the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes Research and Training Institute (SCSTRTI) wrote a letter to the Principal Secretary to the Government of Uttar Pradesh stating the difference between Dhangar and Gadaria, and that the Hindi version of the word Dhangar is धंगड़ (Dhangad), which is classified as Scheduled Caste in Uttar Pradesh, as per the Gazette notification issued in 1950 by the President/Indian Government. They recommended that the Gadaria community's धनगर (Dhangar) should not be included in the Scheduled Caste category and rather belong to the Other Backward Class category in the state of Uttar Pradesh.[50]

Notable people

References

  1. ^ a b c Malhotra, K. C. (March 1982). "Ecology of a pastoral caste: Gavli Dhangars of peninsular India" (PDF). Human Ecology. 10 (1): 107–143. doi:10.1007/BF01531107. S2CID 154253698.
  2. ^ "Govt gives another push to get ST tag for Dhangar-Gouly". The Times of India. 9 September 2020. Retrieved 9 September 2020 – via Associated Press.
  3. ^ a b c Malhotra, K. C. (December 2001). "Patterns of Variation in a Caste-Cluster of Dhangars of Maharashtra, India". Collegium Antropologicum. 25 (2): 425–42. PMID 11811272.
  4. ^ Shashi (2011), p. 47.
  5. ^ Rao (1979), p. 129.
  6. ^ Enthoven (1990), p. 368.
  7. ^ Feldhaus (1989), p. 101.
  8. ^ Shashi (2006), p. 183.
  9. ^ a b Hassan (1989), p. 166.
  10. ^ Joshi, S. B. (1952). "ETYMOLOGY OF PLACE-NAMES PAṬṬI-HAṬṬI: Some observations on the History of Mahārāṣṭra & Karṇāṭaka". Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute. 33 (1/4): 41–56. ISSN 0378-1143. JSTOR 41784634.
  11. ^ Joshi, S. B. (1952). "ETYMOLOGY OF PLACE-NAMES PAṬṬI-HAṬṬI: Some observations on the History of Mahārāṣṭra & Karṇāṭaka". Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute. 33 (1/4): 41–56. ISSN 0378-1143. JSTOR 41784634. जयदेवी जयदेवी जयवेद माते, हाटक कर्नाटक करुणा कल्लोळी
  12. ^ Dandekar, Ajay (August 1991). "Landscapes in Conflict: Flocks, Hero-stones, and Cult in Early Medieval Maharashtra". Studies in History. 7 (2): 301–324. doi:10.1177/025764309100700207. S2CID 162355452.
  13. ^ Sontheimer (1975), p. 140.
  14. ^ Critical Enquiry Vol.VI Issue IV. Oct.- Dec. 2014
  15. ^ a b c Central Commission for Backward Classes (20 October 2020). Central List of OBCs Maharashtra (Report). Archived from the original on 10 November 2020.
  16. ^ Malhotra, K. C. (April 1977). "Haptoglobin and acid phosphatase gene distributions in the Dhangars of Maharashtra, India". Journal of Genetics. 63 (1): 39–45. doi:10.1007/BF02984224. S2CID 25217479.
  17. ^ Gadgil, Madhav; Malhotra, K. C. (1981). "The ecological basis of the geographical distribution of the Dhangars a pastoral caste cluster of Maharashtra" (PDF). South Asian Anthropologist. 2 (2): 49–59.
  18. ^ Guha (1993), p. 84.
  19. ^ Enthoven (1990), p. 321.
  20. ^ Mehta (1984), p. 747.
  21. ^ Watt (2014), p. 295.
  22. ^ a b Singh (2004), p. 498.
  23. ^ a b Pathak (2009), p. 52.
  24. ^ Sontheimer (1975), p. 139.
  25. ^ Russell, Robert Vane (28 September 2020). The Tribes and Castes of the Central Provinces of India, Volume IV of IV. Library of Alexandria. ISBN 9781465583024.
  26. ^ Constable, Philip (2001). "The Marginalization of a Dalit Martial Race in Late Nineteenth- and Early Twentieth-Century Western India". The Journal of Asian Studies. 60 (2): 439–478. doi:10.2307/2659700. JSTOR 2659700. PMID 18268829. S2CID 40219522. Retrieved 28 November 2020. While the bulk of Shivaji's men were naturally Marathas, they included not only the allied castes of Dhangars and Gowalas, shepherds and herdsmen, but many who had no claim to kinship. For example Shivaji's famous infantry was composed largely of Bhandaris and Kolis. The Ramoshis... who afterwards formed the infantry of Haidar and Tipu in Mysore, were relied an for the capture of the hill forts, while the outcaste Mahars and Mangs served in his artillery, and in the garrisons of these forts - Patrick Cadell
  27. ^ Hutton (1961), p. 19.
  28. ^ Presented to both Houses of Parliament by command of her majesty (10 July 1893). General Report on Census of India, 1891 (PDF) (Report). Archived from the original (PDF) on 28 October 2020.
  29. ^ a b Rao (1979), p. 141.
  30. ^ Jaffrelot (2003), p. 189-196.
  31. ^ Gooptu (2001), p. 205–210.
  32. ^ "Govt gives another push to get ST tag for Dhangar-Gouly". The Times of India. 9 September 2020. Retrieved 9 September 2020 – via Associated Press.
  33. ^ Shashi (2011), p. 29,44,47.
  34. ^ Frykenberg, Robert Eric (1984). Land Tenure and Peasant in South Asia. Manohar. p. 197. Another example of castes' successful efforts to raise their sacred status to twice-born are the Sagar Rajputs of Poona district. Previously they were considered to be Dhangars—shepherds by occupation and Shudras by traditional varna. However, when their economic strength increased and they began to acquire land, they found a genealogist to trace their ancestry back to a leading officer in Shivaji's army, changed their names from Dhangars to Sagar Rajputs, and donned the sacred thread.
  35. ^ Baviskar, B. S.; Attwood, D. W. (30 October 2013). Inside-Outside: Two Views of Social Change in Rural India. SAGE Publications. p. 389. ISBN 9788132118657. As one example among thousands, a small caste living partly in the Nira Valley was formerly known as Shegar Dhangar and more recently as Sagar Rajput
  36. ^ Cashman (1975), p. 11.
  37. ^ Hassan (1989), p. 169.
  38. ^ Dhere (2011), p. 246,247.
  39. ^ Zelliot (1988), p. 117.
  40. ^ Jiwan (2000), p. 63.
  41. ^ Dhere (2011), p. 292.
  42. ^ Kulkarni, Dhaval (10 February 2014). "Demands for quotas from new groups add to Maharashtra govt's woes". DNA. Retrieved 17 June 2014.
  43. ^ "Maharashtra Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis promises quota for Dhangar community". The Economic Times. Retrieved 20 September 2022.
  44. ^ Central Commission for Backward Classes (20 October 2020). Central List of OBCs Goa (Report). Archived from the original on 20 October 2020.
  45. ^ a b Central Commission for Backward Classes (20 October 2020). Central List of OBCs Karnataka (Report). Archived from the original on 22 December 2018.
  46. ^ a b Central Commission for Backward Classes (20 October 2020). Central List of OBCs Gujarat (Report). Archived from the original on 20 October 2020.
  47. ^ a b Central Commission for Backward Classes (20 October 2020). Central List of OBCs Madhya Pradesh (Report). Archived from the original on 20 October 2020.
  48. ^ a b Central Commission for Backward Classes (20 October 2020). Central List of OBCs Chattisgarh (Report). Archived from the original on 20 October 2020.
  49. ^ a b Central Commission for Backward Classes (20 October 2020). Central List of OBCs Uttar Pradesh (Report). Archived from the original on 20 October 2020.
  50. ^ a b Nangal, Preeti (29 August 2019). "Adivasis and the Indian State: Deliberately misclassified as SC, Dhangar tribe in UP is being deprived of its constitutional rights". Firstpost.com. Mumbai. Retrieved 29 August 2019. As recent as on 17 January 2019, the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes Research and Training Institute (SCSTRTI) wrote a letter to the Principal Secretary to the Government of Uttar Pradesh stating the difference between Dhangar and Gaderia, and that the Hindi version of the word Dhangar is धंगड़ as per the Gazette notification issued in 1950 by the President/Indian Government. Therefore, the Gadaria community's धनगर cannot be included in the SC category since they are not a sub-caste in Dhangar and rather belong to the OBC category in the state of Uttar Pradesh.
  51. ^ a b Central Commission for Backward Classes (20 October 2020). Central List of OBCs Uttarakhand (Report). Archived from the original on 20 October 2020.
  52. ^ a b Central Commission for Backward Classes (20 October 2020). Central List of OBCs Delhi (Report). Archived from the original on 20 October 2020.
  53. ^ a b Ghoge, Ketaki (28 June 2019). "Maharashtra's OBC communities not happy with HC ruling on Maratha quota". Archived from the original on 10 November 2020. The Dhangars come under nomadic tribe category within the larger OBC quota in Maharashtra, but were promised reservation under scheduled tribes in 2014
  54. ^ a b Jog, Sanjay (21 September 2020). "Maharashtra Dhangar community to launch statewide agitation to press for quota under ST category". Archived from the original on 10 November 2020. At present, the Dhangar community gets 3.5 per cent quota in government jobs and education under Nomadic Tribe (C) category, which comes under OBC category.
  55. ^ Government of India (31 March 2020). 2011 Census of India Scheduled Caste (PDF) (Report). Archived from the original (PDF) on 20 October 2020.
  56. ^ Government of India (31 March 2020). 2011 Census of India Scheduled Tribe (PDF) (Report). Archived from the original (PDF) on 7 November 2013.
  57. ^ Ministry of Tribal Affairs, Government of India (December 2002). 27th report of Standing Committee on Labour and Welfare with regards to SCs and STs order (Second Amendment) Bill, 2002 (PDF) (Report). Archived from the original (PDF) on 24 October 2020.
  58. ^ Ramusack, Barbara N. (2004). The Indian Princes and their States. The New Cambridge History of India. Cambridge University Press. p. 35. ISBN 9781139449083.
  59. ^ Jones, Rodney W. (1974). Urban Politics in India: Area, Power, and Policy in a Penetrated System. University of California Press. p. 25.
  60. ^ Khanolkar, D.D. (1979). Marathwada University Journal - Volumes 17-18. Marathwada University. p. 67.
  61. ^ Bhattacharya, Sabyasachi (2002). Education and the Disprivileged Nineteenth and Twentieth Century India. Orient BlackSwan. p. 40. ISBN 9788125021926.
  62. ^ Deshpande, Devidas (August 2019). "They'd like you to caste your vote".
  63. ^ "Former BJP minister Dange joins NCP". 30 September 2006. Archived from the original on 2 October 2017.
  64. ^ "Government positive about the reservation of Dhangar community: Uddhav Thackeray". Archived from the original on 14 November 2020.
  65. ^ Goa, HCN (August 2019). "Dy CM Babu Kavlekar on appointment of Shri N. D. Agrawal (G.C.S) as Advisor for Dhangars community".
  66. ^ "Goa Gets Four New Ministers in Cabinet Reshuffle, Chandrakant Kavlekar to Become New Deputy CM". July 2019.
  67. ^ "Vidhansabhet Dhangar samajachi sankhya pachavarun ekvar". 2 November 2019. Archived from the original on 13 November 2020.
  68. ^ Mhaske, Pandurang (October 2014). "At 94, Deshmukh ready for 11th term".
  69. ^ Alok Deshpande (1 October 2019). "BJP poaches Dhangar leader to take on Ajit Pawar". Archived from the original on 13 November 2020.
  70. ^ "Archived copy". Retrieved 9 July 2016.
  71. ^ Mrityunjay Bose (18 October 2019). "Pawar vs Ram Shinde, an eyeball to eyeball conflict". Archived from the original on 13 November 2020.
  72. ^ "Dr Vikas Mahatme raises Dhangar reservation demand in Rajya Sabha - Times of India". The Times of India. Retrieved 16 September 2018.

Bibliography

Further reading

  • Baviskar, B.S., "Co-operatives and caste in Maharashtra: A case study". Sociological Bulletin, XVIII:2:1969:148-166.
  • Chaubey Ganesh, "The Dhangar Songs", Folklore, Vol. I No 4, Calcutta, 1958, pp. 22–25.
  • Malhotra, K., 1980a, "Inbreeding among the four Dhangar castes of Maharashtra. India". Collegium antropologicum, 3.
  • Malhotra, K., 1980b, "Matrimonial distances among four Dhangar castes of Maharashtra", South Asian Anthropology, 1.
  • Malhotra, K., 1984, "Population structure among the Dhangar caste cluster of Maharashtra", in J.R. Lukacs (ed.), The People of South Asia.
  • Prasad Satyanarain. "Modern education among the tribals of Bihar in the second half of the 19th century". Man in India, LI:4:1971:365-393.
  • Saksena, R.N., and Chinchalkar, "Dhangars and Gadariyas: The Most backward divisions of Indian tribes and caste". Vanyajati, XXV:2: 1977:14–17.
  • Prof. Prabhu N Kokane,"Socio-Legal" Identification of Scheduled Castes/Tribes & Backward Classes (2007). Nanded, Maharashtra.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Dhangar&oldid=1258369045"