Talk:Aventail

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Military history: Medieval Start‑class

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	Medieval warfare task force (c. 500 – c. 1500)

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From VfD:

Dictdefs. Rick K 06:22, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)

wictionary or merge unless expanded. --ssd 06:45, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Transwiki to Wiktionary. These are specialist terms, and they may not have them there. Geogre 12:45, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Keep. Both were nominated for deletion within minutes of their creation. Give these stubs a chance to grow. Unlike many of our articles, these are real things. The very fact that we still have names for them supports their claim to historical significance. Rossami 16:19, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Delete. Note first that we not "still have a name" for "ahlspiess". It is not an English word, it is not in the OED, and the article itself says that the English term is "awl pike". Note also that the presence of the other word in certain dictionaries does not attest to the term's historical significance, for it is not in modern use and is not in dictionaries of modern terms. The OED's latest quotation, for instance, is from 1842. Unless these articles can be expanded to be numerous paragraphs, they belong in a more general article about medieval weaponry. As it stands, these articles currently have no information that indicates why these are anything unique. Note also that Webster 1913 and the OED define "aventail" as "the movable front or mouthpiece of a helmet", which is not what the article currently states (it looks like the present definition is from Wordnet, which is--as often is the case--false). So, in conclusion, the "aventail" article is entirely false information and the "ahlspiess" article should instead be in "awl" or "awl pike". Ultimately, however, unless these articles are expanded into articles of several paragraphs, this information that should go in these articles belongs entirely in articles on "medieval armor", "chain mail", or whatever. - Centrx 18:45, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- I learned of the weapon as "ahlspiess" first and always assumed that was the common name but I would not object to a pagemove to awl pike. I'd also be okay with your suggestion to merge and redirect into a more general article about medieval weaponry. Do you have a suggestion? Rossami
  - Ahlspiess is the common name; based on old texts and still supported by new RPGs (FFXI, SS2), Awl Pike is an alternative, and in itself an alternate. As for a conjoined page, I see not a reason for the weapon category already suits this and there's very few unique weapons to ever have to merge them by eras.

As for the "Aventail," remove and append with Visor_(armor). — Blade Hirato 09:06, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion