Talk:Ethnic relations in India

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On 2 July 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Racism in India. The result of the discussion was moved to Ethnic relations in India.

Is the discrimination racial in nature ?

As in any large country people from one region hold prejudices about people from other regions, for example a north Indian is discriminated against in south India (and vice versa), a bihari is discriminated in mumbai and so on. This is hardly limited to India, germany after unification was prejudiced against people from erstwhile east germany, east coast americans consider people from the south are 'hicks'. Is any of that racism ? At the same time this talk of racism against people from NE is going on, the largest football star and team captain of the national team is from the NE, a number of talented North East people have won national reality shows based on votes from the whole country and so on. I think a difference needs to be made between prejudice and racism. Madmonk11 (talk) 14:00, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Start

I've made a start on this page, but it really needs some input from someone who better understands the ethnic groups in India. - Borofkin (talk) 05:00, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Synthesis?

The article is titled "Racism in India" but looking at the references I see:

Only the first three references (actually two, since the first and the third are the same article in different locations) talk about north-eastern Indians facing discrimination in Delhi. One of the two is a 'talk' piece.
All the others talk about India's obsession with fair skin without a single mention of racism. India's obsession with fair skin is likely more complex than simple racism ('wanted, a fair Punjabi brahmin for a punjabi Brahmin' can hardly be called racism).

At best, this can be called 'discrimination against north-eastern Indians in Delhi' or, if you will, 'racial discrimination against north-eastern Indians in Delhi'. I don't know if there is racism in India or not (I suspect there is, simply because racism is everywhere), but this article raises a pair of articles of dubious reliability to the status of 'racism' and then synthesizes articles on the 'fair obsession' with 'racism'. Comments? --RegentsPark (sticks and stones) 04:23, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You make good points, I am not even sure if this article would stand the test of notability. Fair skin obsession is not racism. Also, the attacks on north-easterners is important, but I have heard things about people from other states as well. I think that would fall under regionalism, or ethnic tensions in India, rather than racism. Supreme Unmanifest (talk) 12:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think we need to be clear on what is meant by racism. Can someone give some examples of the different races in Indian? Is "Indian" a race? - Borofkin (talk) 02:30, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Borofkin, go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carleton_Coon_races_after_Pleistocene.PNG But I must emphasize that this map does not in any way affect ethnic relations. The Indian race is a continum from one extreme to another in the subcontinent due to nearly complete admixture. 88.201.1.30 (talk) 10:11, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am sure, concerns about the death penalty have not been studied statistically. There is only suggestions from the opponents of the death penalty. I am sure that does not belong in the article "Racism In India". Supreme Unmanifest (talk) 12:25, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be in order to turn the capital punishment concerns over to Capital punishment in India. Supreme Unmanifest (talk) 12:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fair skin obsession is surely not racism. IMO it can be equated to Foot binding of China, but nothing more. Wiki San Roze^†αLҝ 17:31, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

the article was started in response to 2009 attacks on Indian students in Australia. but true, i agree with Jug Suraiya. IMO, fair skin obsession is a rather severe social disease and it can stay as a separate article by itself (i am surprised no one bothered to create this article yet). --Car Tick 18:13, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

and why some indians view like that asians with mongoloid features? they don't know the economic success of countries like japan, korea or singapore which are already developed or the success of china or malaysia which are developing but are newly industrialized countries too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.156.245.95 (talk) 23:20, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Move proposal

BTW can this article be moved to Ethnic Tension in India? Wiki San Roze^†αLҝ 17:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Combining all the different ethnic friction issues into a single article sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the anti-bihari articles, and any other ethnic tension articles can be merged into one comprehensive article. --RegentsPark (sticks and stones) 17:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

one big article is a good idea. but, ethnic tension title may not be right, something more neutral.... --Car Tick 18:18, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic relations in India? Ethnic strain(s) in India? --RegentsPark (sticks and stones) 18:26, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic relations in India is a better idea. the title is very broad and neutral, both positive and negative aspects can be covered. but still not broad enough to include fair skin obsession unless you change it to Ethnic and social relations in India. Ethnic tension in India can be redirected to. --Car Tick 18:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can ignore the fair skin obsession part for the time being. (I don't see an article on Obsession with blondes!) I like Ethnic relations in India, it could potentially include relations with indigenous people, for example. Are there any other articles on ethnic relations that could be potential merge candidates (other than the anti-bihari agitations one and this one)? --RegentsPark (sticks and stones) 18:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

well, Indians being notoriously less self confident, it has a huge impact on the social psychology and therefore on everything. one of the least recognised social phenomena even among intellectuals. uncomparable to blondes. --Car Tick 02:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cartick, see Physical attractiveness. There is some oblique reference to this fair skin preference. Supreme Unmanifest (talk) 18:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The fair skin obsession falls under human concept of beauty. It has been discussed in another article, I have read it. It cannot be under Ethnic relations in India. Ethnic relations is too broad, it will have to cover both discrimnatory and collaborative efforts. We want to cover the tension (not necessarily violence) between Ethnic groups. Supreme Unmanifest (talk) 18:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some content from Marathi nationalism would qualify. Supreme Unmanifest (talk) 18:48, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Denotified tribes of India also known as Criminal Tribes. Adivasis (Indian Indigenous People - Adi(Pre) vasi (residents)). I am still thinking. Tamil nationalism and many of India's secessionist movements would also be of interest. Supreme Unmanifest (talk) 18:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

wonder if a summary of Belgaum border dispute and Kaveri River Water Dispute would be suitable. it may need much more work than just merging content from many articles. but nothing wrong in begining an article. --Car Tick 18:57, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some content from above will qualify (especially burning tamil theaters in bangalore). As of now, considering my first child Ethnic Tension in India has been speedily deleted :'-(, we are officially in rename territory, not merge. So one of us needs to start this rename process. But should it be Ethnic Tension in India or Ethnic Relations in India.Supreme Unmanifest (talk) 19:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, anti-bengali sentiments in Assam. 77.69.195.30 (talk) 19:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

MOVE PERFORMED Supreme Unmanifest (talk) 19:26, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think Karnataka-Tamil Nadu dispute on Kaveri would be racism. Use of racial slurs such as Konga (in Karnataka for Tamils), Pandies (in Kerala for Tamils) and probably the term Goluti (used in Tamil Nadu for Telugus) can be listed in this article. Wiki San Roze^†αLҝ 22:15, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, the Karnataka-Tamil Nadu would qualify for ethnic tension (my earlier point was on racism). My bad. Wiki San Roze^†αLҝ 07:31, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic Tension in India

I came here based on the speedy tag on the above article. Since the above discussion is essentially to move the article to the new title, all history will have to be retained. I'm going to delete the above article without prejudice, once this article is moved there, I can restore the old edits. That way, the edit history will be preserved. -SpacemanSpiff 18:23, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Since the page has been moved to Ethnic relations in India, I've restored and redirected Ethnic Tension in India to that. -SpacemanSpiff 19:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. 77.69.195.30 (talk) 19:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RfC

BAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:41, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality

The article is improved now. Hope the Neutrality dispute tag can be removed. Rajaram Sarangapani (talk) 07:28, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Succubus MacAstaroth and Rajaram Sarangapani: I'm not sure if this neutrality debate is still ongoing, but there is still another POV tag on this article. Are there any other problems in this article that still need to be corrected? Jarble (talk) 19:16, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Added primary sources tag

Added primary sources tag due to many sources being news articles from around the time of the events in question. Fuhvah (talk) 18:08, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 2 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Ethnic relations in India. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 22:00, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Racism and race relations in India → Racism in India – We should simplify title per the standard naming seen in Category:Racism by country. Race relations is a minor concept that doesn't even have its own category tree. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:03, 2 July 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Elli (talk | contribs) 16:00, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination. Retaining consistency with categorisation is important. Sean Stephens (talk) 02:16, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- On second thought, I support moving it back to the initial title. Sean Stephens (talk) 00:59, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I am re-opening this low-participation RM per a request on my talkpage by Segaton. While RMs generally have no minimum participation requirement, I think it's reasonable to give a bit of flexibility here. Elli (talk | contribs) 16:02, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Change back to original title which was Ethnic relations in India. The word "racism" in context of India has been already debunked at discussion above. Most of the content, except very few sentences only concern the ethnicities within India. The latest page move was made recently without any understanding of the earlier consensus and with ignorant reasoning. Since India has no history of racism, this word is not going to fit in. But if we are going to write only about 'racism' then there would be no article and will require merging. Segaton (talk) 16:09, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Change back to earlier title per above. "Ethnic relations in India" is generally used by scholars too.[1][2] Azuredivay (talk) 16:47, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Change back to earlier title per above comments. Srijanx22 (talk) 20:55, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Ethnic relations in India per above. Given the article's scope, ethnic reations seems approapriate. -- Ab207 (talk) 17:10, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Change back to earlier title per above comments -- DaxServer (talk) 17:36, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.