Talk:Khanom krok

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Spelling

Anachronist, I'm not necessarily disputing the move, but I think it'd be best to at least lay out some of the sources that back the spelling here on the talk page. Searching Google Books for all four permutations, the first ten results I see have four with kanom krok, three and a half with khanom krok, two with khanom khrok and one half with kanom khrok. (The halves are from a result that inconsistently has two spellings.) There doesn't appear to be a single overwhelmingly common spelling for it to be an obvious uncontroversial choice. --Paul_012 (talk) 02:07, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Paul 012: I used this Google Engram Viewer search, which shows zero results for "khanom khrok". Because all the sources in this article spelled it "kanom krok", as well as a package of the dessert that I bought from Trader Joe's, I renamed the article accordingly.

However, now that you bring up the alternate spellings (which honestly didn't ocur to me), it appears that searching all four permutations reveals that "khanom krok" is the most common spelling in English. I should have checked that first. I can correct the title. ~Anachronist (talk) 05:03, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed it to "khanom krok". This is consistent with the many other "khanom" articles we have. I also cleaned up the "what links here" references. ~Anachronist (talk) 05:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. I'm not sure that was necessary. The Google Ngram chart shows that kanom krok was historically more common, and the difference since 2015 isn't even that much. Personally I think khanom krok is just a bad and confusing way to spell it, as both words have the same consonant sound. But sources use it, so it can probably be either of the two. (As an aside, I don't know how Google calculates its charts, but I wouldn't bet on it being very accurate for rare terms like this, seeing as there are terms/spellings that are used but don't get results.) --Paul_012 (talk) 03:55, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the original spelling khanom khrok doesn't appear anywhere, so something had to change. The word "khrok" doesn't even register in ngram, which basically searches books and not websites or news sources. I changed kanom back to khanom because we have so many other articles on Thai desserts spelled that way.

Does the 'k' sound exactly the same for both words? I am not Thai, so I don't know. Listening to the voice in Google Translate doesn't enlighten either, it just sounds like plain 'k' to me. ~Anachronist (talk) 06:11, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's the same sound. In Thai, the aspirated [kʰ] and unaspirated [k] form different phonemes; both words in ขนมครก begin with the former. The latter is more like the hard /g/ in English. But the potential confusion is just my personal opinion so it doesn't really matter. Choose khanom krok and it might confuse some readers why the same consonant is spelled differently, choose kanom krok and it might confuse others why the discrepancy with khanom elsewhere; it's going to be inconsistent one way or another. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:11, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]