Talk:Ohlone/New Intro

It was decided that the introduction was insufficent. This page is the result of our combined efforts. --meatclerk 07:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Just adding that per agreement we've closed this and moved back to the intro in the main article but save this discussion because it is a useful outline of ideas. Goldenrowley 18:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Just to be clear, this page stopped activity back in November 2016. --Aboudaqn (talk) 20:53, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

OUTLINE

• who - Ohlone and Costanoan, Native Americans of the United States

• what - A description of the combined historical and [ethnological, ethnosocial, cultural] knowledge

• when - At least 500 AD From the earliest records, written, archeological AND scientific./In 1542 Cabrillo and later had contact, having little influence, but created some excitement of another world/1769 is the year the original culture witnessed and described in writing by other cultures in detail and considered the pre-missionization point /retreat through the 1900s in an effort to survive an onslaught/revitilization in the 1960-1970s/Don't forget Alcatraz Island(1969-1971)(Miwok land technically) and it effect on Wounded_Knee_Incident(1973) /through the present.

These points acknowledged as being very interesting, maybe we need a modern history section. I don't think it will all fit into an "Intro" Goldenrowley 18:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• where - San Francisco Peninsula, Santa Clara Valley, East Bay, Santa Cruz Mountains, Monterey Bay ansd Salinas Valley covers it.

• how many - over 60 tribes and over 120 villages with shellmounds, plus community property (like the salmon run in Monterey and Carquinez Strait; oyster festivals on the bay; and milling stations for grass seeds and acrons) in 1769

Current Intro LIVE 10-27-06

Copied from Live Page.

The Ohlone (Costanoan) are the indigenous people who lived since 500 AD in the region of the San Francisco Bay, from Carquinez Strait south to the Salinas Valley. Although these people spoke closely related languages, they lived in several dozen distinct villages, and village groups, and did not traditionally see themselves as one group of people.

The Spanish explorers referred to the native groups of this region collectively as the Costeños (the "coastal people") circa 1769. Over time, the English-speaking settlers Anglicized the word into the name of Costanoan. For many years, the people were called the Costanoans in English language and records. However, since the 1960s the term Ohlone, has been formally extended to mean the same group of indigenous people, often used to replace the term Costanoan.

Some of the native people prefer to keep the name Costanoan, or to revitalize the word Muwekma, the word for the people in their native languages of East Bay Chocheño and Tamyen.

My comments: (1) "several dozen" means 24 or 36 tops that is WAY too few - go back to "over 50" (2) add "North America" (for context outside of California and outside of USA) (3) consider using "Native American" it's very well defined on Wiki and more specific. (4) on regions add back Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay areas. The SC mountauns if you read that page do not consider themselves part of either Bay Areas. Otherwise.... above is fine with me ! Goldenrowley 15:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Introduction Work (Current Idea as of 10/26/06)

The terms Ohlone and Costanoan are both exonyms for a specific linguistic group of the Native American people of Northern California who have lived in what is now known as the San Francisco Peninsula, Santa Cruz Mountains, Santa Clara Valley, Monterey Bay Area and Salinas Valley areas since about 500 AD. These people had over 50 tribal names and villages and did not traditionally see themselves as one named people. The Spanish missionaries and settlers referred to the native groups of this region collectively as the Costeños (the "coastal people"). Over time, the English-speaking settlers Anglicized the word into the name of Costanoan.

The term Ohlone is the widely held name for this linguistic group. The name Ohlone probably derived from one single group within the many tribes that lived in the area, namely the Ojlin.

Since the 1960s the term Ohlone has been informally extended formally used as a name for this people, chosen by some of the members and the popular media, often used to replace the term Costanoan. However, due to its tribal origin, some members prefer to keep the name Costanoan or to revitalize the word Muwekma, an endonym or word for the people in East Bay Chochenyo and Tamyen.

Since the Mission Era, many elements of the Ohlone (Costanoan) traditional culture have become forgotten forever, although in tribal bands Natives have worked to revive some of the old ways. Ohlone culture can be traced as far back as 500 BC in this area, and was first witnessed by Europeans through the eyes of early Spanish Explorers (1600s). The Ohlone language has been classified as a Penutian (Utian) language with eight dialects: [LIST HERE]. The ohlone population has been decimated since the arrival of the Europeans to their region of America. Their past must be reconstructed largely through reading myths, narratives, oral histories, language elements. When it grew apparent in the early 1900s that the Ohlone language was near extinct and only a few Natives remembered their traditional narratives, several ethnolinguists and historians rushed against timeharried in competition to collect the ethnographical and historical and linguistic data.

Reader feedback and commentary from: Goldenrowley 03:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Q do you mean "harried " Or "Hurried"? Harried might not apply that's a state of mind. Goldenrowley 18:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

"Ohlone has been informally extended...down to Monterey Bay.." -- deleted. This is very awkward phrase AND I DISPUTE it being accurate i.e. there is no Citation, It implies informality and extension to non-descendents, which would include my Navajo friend is an Ohlone as well (using an extreme example). Plus the term is formal because it is in published books and records I.E. tEIXEIRA. The group is stil the same people they just renamed themself. Refer to tEIXEIRA: "In the 1960s, some descendents embraced 'Ohlone' as an alternative tribe name, rejecting the Costanoan tribal designation. The term "Ohlone" is now Used by many descendents and by popular media."

While they are still amoung us, and "we do have" -- deleted. Please do not say "we...them" sounds paternal and like you are a white man, no we/they stuff...please.

I added they are not letting it die. It Got revived.

" through rough a Mission and Mexican Period(1770-1849) and on through today" -- deleted. This is just awkward. I did not have a better suggestion but I did already add a few words regarding the near forgetting and the new revival/present.

"As with all dimished cultures, we remember them when listing their most notable persons." - deleted. That's pure essay and again no We/They.

Harried, as harry - obtrusive incursion --meatclerk 03:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Excellent. Now let it sit for 72 hours, then rewrite it. The next and final version will be much better. --meatclerk 04:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Notes

• why - because we like you :=) We do not need to do why, even journalists are allowed to skip why. -GR

Introduction Work (previous idea - not Live just ideas)

As worked on October 21-22 Goldenrowley and Meatclerk

The Ohlone (also known as the Costanoan) are one linguistic group of the Native American people of Northern California who have lived in what is now known as the San Francisco Bay Area, Santa Cruz Mountains, and Monterey Bay Areas at least since 500 AD. These people had over 50 tribal names and villages and did not traditionally see themselves as one group of people. The Spanish explorers referred to the native groups of this region collectively as the Costeños (the "coastal people") circa 1769. Over time, the English-speaking settlers Anglicized the word into the name of Costanoan. For many years, the people were called the Costanoans in English language and records. However, since the 1960s the term Ohlone, has been formally extended to mean the same group of indigenous people, often used to replace the term Costanoan.

Some of the native people prefer to keep the name Costanoan, or to revitalize the word Muwekma, the word for the people in their native languages of East Bay Chocheño and Tamyen.

It is important to note that while they are still amoung us, many elements of their original culture are now extinct. Nonetheless their history extends back in the region for 1200 years before early Spanish explorers "discovered" them in California in the 1600s, through a Mission and Mexican Period (1769-1849), and on through today. The Ohlone's language has been studied and categorized into eight divisions by linguists, but their population has been decimated over time. We do have some myths, language elements and a different social and environmental philosophy to reason with from a past era. * And as such, while many are gone,** Early in the 1900s etymologists, linguists and historians hurried in competition to capture the history.*** As with all dimished cultures, we remember them when listing their most notable persons. *

COMMENTS:

(*struck sentences that are essay like, sounds nice but not factual to "reason with" past eras, and might be considered NPOV. Not needed.)

(**struck "as such" phrase: It's vague in this context.)

(***don't say this without also including modern researchers doing all the rework and Mission translation, but if so will start turning the intro into a compressed article.]

LIVE INTRODUCTION 10/22/06

Let's Go Live with this one today, main points covered, while cutting back on the repetition with the Etymology Section) Goldenrowley 18:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The Ohlone (also known as the Costanoan) are one linguistic group of the Native American people of Northern California who have lived in what is now known as the San Francisco Bay Area, Santa Cruz Mountains, and Monterey Bay Areas at least since 500 AD. These people had over 50 tribal names and villages and did not traditionally see themselves as one group of people. The Spanish explorers referred to the native groups of this region collectively as the Costeños (the "coastal people") circa 1769. Over time, the English-speaking settlers Anglicized the word into the name of Costanoan. For many years, the people were called the Costanoans in English language and records. However, since the 1960s the term Ohlone, has been formally extended to mean the same group of indigenous people, often used to replace the term Costanoan.

Some of the native people prefer to keep the name Costanoan, or to revitalize the word Muwekma, the word for the people in their native languages of East Bay Chocheño and Tamyen.

LIVE OHLONE PAGE 10/19/06

• Copied from the live page today:

The Ohlone (also known as the Costanoan) refers to a group of Native Americans who have resided in what is now the south, west and east sides of the San Francisco Bay Area and Monterey Bay areas of California long before Spanish settlers arrived in 1769. Associated together because they spoke closely related languages and dialects, these people lived in roughly 50 distinct villages and village groups. Prehistorically, the Ohlone did not view of themselves as one group.

The incoming Spanish first referred to the native groups of this region collectively as the Costeños (the "coastal people"). Over time, the English-speaking settlers heard the Spanish name and Anglicized it into the name of Costanoan. For many years, the people were called the Costanoans in English language and records.

Since the 1960s, the term Ohlone has generally come to replace the term Costanoan to describe these people. The origin of the term Ohlone is not totally clear. Putting aside the many variant spellings of Ohlone, the word Ohlone once referred to a single village and tribe, out of many Native American villages in the region of San Francisco, namely the Ojlon.

Some of the Ohlone-Costanoan members still prefer to keep the name Costanoan rather than Ohlone, or to revitalize the word Muwekma, the word for the people in East Bay Chochenyo and Tamyen.