Talk:Pariah (1998 film)

Dave Ward death

In the "Reception and review" section, one of the sources specifically mentioned the death of actor Dave Ward after this film. Admittedly a piece of content that has been a source of contention across several articles and AfDs as well as caught the attention of several Admins due to sock puppets. I added a source that provides additional detail about the death that includes the other participants and Ward's killer, Nate Moore (actor). One user, Shark310 (one of the Socks[1]), has been trying to add unsourced content with regard to the incident: [2][3][4]. Specifically that the fight was "3 on 1", but this is not stated in the source and its a stretch to say that its inferred. Admittedly, I breached 3RR, but I self reverted.[5].

References

Uninvolved views would be appreciated. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 21:25, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, scalhotrod for bringing this discussion to a talk page. I'm happy to again attempt to civilly address this matter with you and other Wiki editors. I have edited this piece, subsequent to your inclusion of content that had already been deleted as a result of 3 different AFDs. I'm somewhat confused by your statement that the "source", (described by many previous Admins as a "tabloidy piece" and a "breathless one-sided crime-novel article written as if the author was there",) doesn't state that the fight was 3-on-1 and that "its a stretch to say that its inferred." Sure the "source" here is obviously one-sided and biased, but it does describe a mutual combat with four parties participating in various levels. I am not sure why the contextualization of a 3-on-1 fight (as opposed to just saying "killed in road rage") would bother an objective person sincerely interested in neutrality.

I want to state that I don't think this content belongs in an article about a film. However, if you wish so desperately to include the content in this article, or anywhere for that matter, I think that wikipedia policy regarding NPOV and BLP has a say in how something is written. You wish to base this information on a tabloidy source, but that doesn't mean that the facts in an encyclopedia have to (nor should) mimic the non-neutral tone or description of a clearly biased piece. And, although you may not like this, the "source" does state that there were four participants. The description of 3-on-1 also clears up the possible confusion a wiki reader might have regarding whether it was 3 people who fought Ward, or whether it was a 2-on-2 fight. Again, wiki editors and Admins such as RGloucester Fylbecatulous Risker Nyttend Carcharoth Govindaharihari JohnCD Fluffernutter Crystallizedcarbon all agreed at various AFDs that this BLP content was sourced on a negative BLP article, and as such, should be handled with neutrality in mind. Subsequent to the consensus to delete the Articles you fought so hard to keep, you recreated the Article Nate Moore (actor) and redirected Nate Moore (actor) to this article about a film he never appeared in, in an apparent attempt to slip the negative BLP content back in. I mean, I suppose we could rehash all this a fourth time, if you arent satisfied with wikipedia policy regarding deletion or WP:RUD. But, if you want the facts included somewhere somehow, at least allow for a neutral POV. Moore was never convicted in court of a "road rage" allegation. Even if a tabloid author describes something as as a "road rage", that doesnt mean its reliable or should be the words used to describe/mislead. For example, "murder" is a word used in the article at one point, but there was no conviction of Murder in this case. Also, for the record, I am an original account and not a sock. I realize that you made a good faith effort there, but even the original author of the first two articles you fought so hard to "keep" was eventually blocked for sock-puppeting and attempting to WP:OUT someone who disagreed with their/your view.

I welcome the input of objective parties and hope that this may exhaust the matter.

On a related matter, since you also created a redirect for Dave Oren Ward to a film he appeared in as an actor, it only made sense to edit your redirect Nate Moore to a film he appeared in as an actor. I noticed that you also edited the incident into "Desert Blue", although its a stretch to see the objective relevance of this trivia. I will now go read about all the things that "wikipedia is not" in an attempt to educate myself. 🐍 23:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC)